Narconon Arrowhead Loses State Certification

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McAlester News-Capital: Narconon Arrowhead loses state certification
http://mcalesternews.com/breakingnews/x1981930665/Narconon-Arrowhead-loses-state-certification

Excerpt:
McALESTER — Narconon Arrowhead’s medical detox facility in McAlester has lost its state certification, officials say.

“Their temporary permit has expired and Arrowhead Medical Detox is not certified for medical detox,” said Jeff Desmukes of the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health Substance Abuse Services.
 

iHateDuplicity

Patron with Honors
Now that is major news. That's not something Dwarf Midget will be announcing from the stage at the next event. Oh my!

I have mixed feelings about this one, though, because I know Narconon does do some good and I want people off drugs. But given the corrupt nature of Cof$ and the alleged criminal activities at this and other Narconon facilities, I am very happy to see actual state and federal investigations occurring.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I recently talked to three separate "ole time Scientologist's" that are sitting on the fence - in Doubt about Scientology and don't know what is wrong but know something is wrong!

All three people told me that they had a family members go to Narconon.

One guy went twice and it did not work - he eventually died. The other one went to Narconon and it did not work. He was a young man and died due to his addiction. The third one told me that their brother went to Narconon - it failed and he eventually got sober from going to Alcohol Anonymous.

I have not personally met anyone who benefited from Narconon - not one person.

I am not saying that Narconon may not provide "some" help of "some" sort - but mix it with the actual goal - to get them working for free and being a Scientologist - and it is dangerous!! I am just strictly looking at the statistics.

If anyone here says Narconon is worth keeping around - can we have some statistics of actual people you know. I think it needs to be closed down forever - it is a front group and bait for Scientology - pure and simple!

Keeping Narconon is like keeping your "Science of Survival" book because you found a few truths in it....it is a few simple truths mixed in with a whole lot of lies and poison. Get all of Scientology and its front groups out of your life and you will live longer and be happier.
 

anondelmundial

Patron with Honors
One guy went twice and it did not work - he eventually died. The other one went to Narconon and it did not work. He was a young man and died due to his addiction. The third one told me that their brother went to Narconon - it failed and he eventually got sober from going to Alcohol Anonymous.


I am an alcoholic. I have participated in several AA groups. Frankly, AA is no more effective than is Narconon. Published stats say that AA is 8 percent effective in the short run. No stats on the long run. Nobody dies from AA: they die from alcoholism or drug addiction on their own dime.

OTOH, AA is free, even if one has to meet with people who have come straight from the bar:melodramatic:.
 
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kate8024

-deleted-
If Narcanon says the same thing about drugs that Truth about Drugs does it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is ineffective. Truth about Drugs is so full of half-truths and outright lies that I would question every other thing they told me because I would feel them to be completely discredited.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
It all boils down to the individual. I have known some who've gotten clean and sober from AA. I've known others in which AA didn't work for them at all. I personally know one person who got off Heroine by going to Narconon, however the true record shows that many others, if not most, haven't been helped or cured by Narconon. I have a close relative who after drinking heavily for over 30 years just stopped one day completely on his own with no AA and no treatment program. After 23 years he is still clean and sober.

Narconon needs to be shut down because it's a criminal operation and a front for an even bigger criminal organization. Too many people have died there. Families are being split up after "patients" get hooked into Scientology. So I have no mixed feelings about this news at all. Finally the State of Oklahoma pulled it's head out of it's ass. Many more States need to do the same.
 
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PTS

Elliott
Now that is major news. That's not something Dwarf Midget will be announcing from the stage at the next event. Oh my!

I have mixed feelings about this one, though, because I know Narconon does do some good and I want people off drugs. But given the corrupt nature of Cof$ and the alleged criminal activities at this and other Narconon facilities, I am very happy to see actual state and federal investigations occurring.

Narconon relies not on established and proven therapeutic protocols but on the delusions of a shitty science fiction writer who wrote himself a religion and fancied himself an expert in everything from engineering physics, to medicine, to archaeology, all without benefit of any formal post-secondary training. Narconon takes tens of thousands of dollars from families desperate to get their loved ones back from drug addiction. Name one thing that Narconon does that aligns with any proven treatment facility. They do not employ licensed credentialed professionals with the specialized training required to help people with addiction, but rather they "hat" former clients to serve in their facilities. When things go wrong they report to ABLE, INT and OSA. Oh, and people die in their care. Let's not forget that. What mixed feelings could you possibly have for this batshit swindle?
 

iHateDuplicity

Patron with Honors
In the decades that I was involved in Scientology, I met no less than ten people who went through a Narconon program and were handled and off drugs as a result. I never met anyone who did the Narconon program and reverted. I'm not saying there haven't been drug reverts from Narconon and I'm not putting myself in a position of "defender of Narconon". I guess I asked for it by saying I had mixed feelings. I have mixed feelings only because of what I have observed with my own two eyes in my own real life.

If I factor in the data that I have not directly observed, then I have to conclude that there are definite problems with this program and that is why I said that I'm happy it is being investigated by state and federal officials. But I'm not going to lie to myself about what I saw and the successes I observed. The program has a certain degree of workability. Lots of things do. I'm not saying Narconon is better or worse than AA or anything else as I have no hard data to base any such statement on and I don't see anyone else doing the hard research to produce those stats either. But I think if you were to look at the big picture, you would see that people die in other drug rehab facilities too. That doesn't make them criminal operations.

God, I feel like such an apologist for Narconon right now and I am NOT. I just don't think the whole thing is 100% evil and a total fraud and no one ever got any help from it. I think anyone who asserts that has no idea what they are talking about.

I do have one other thing to say on this though. Other "proven" rehab facilities don't have very good success rates either, so I'm not so impressed with any of the drug treatment facilities anywhere on Earth. I think if someone had this subject really nailed, we'd be seeing someone coming out with 80-90% success. That is what I would call a "proven drug rehab."
 

anondelmundial

Patron with Honors
Narconon relies not on established and proven therapeutic protocols but on the delusions of a shitty science fiction writer who wrote himself a religion and fancied himself an expert in everything from engineering physics, to medicine, to archaeology, all without benefit of any formal post-secondary training.

I haven't the time to research this once again about my alcoholism, but the are no established and proven therapeutic protocols for drug addiction treatments. The entire subject is murky, there are between few an no objective research results on any drug treatment protocols.

I was "cured" in a combination of losing my wife and AA. In AA meetings, many were drunk or high on drugs. My "cure" was losing my wife.

OTOH, AA is free, whatever good it does..:duh:
 

anondelmundial

Patron with Honors

It is about damned time that the State of Oklahoma has finally done something positive about Narconon. They have had information about the Narconon "problems" for more than a decade, starting with the first Narconon in northern OK on an Indian reservation.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narconon

"Narconon began operations in Oklahoma in 1990,[SUP][97][/SUP] as an unlicensed facility on the site of the Chilocco Indian School near Newkirk,[SUP][98][/SUP] claiming that it did not require a state licence, as it was operating on an Indian reservation.[SUP][99][/SUP] In 1992 it applied for a state licence, and was twice refused by the Oklahoma Mental Health Department, which found "no evidence that drug and alcohol abuse education was part of the program";,[SUP][100][/SUP] and declared the programme "not medically safe";[SUP][55][/SUP] a decision to which Narconon spokesperson Kirstie Alley[SUP][101][/SUP] responded, "The arrogance and irresponsibility of the mental health board will not survive the outrage of the many thousands of parents, graduates and supporters from the scientific community"."

I lived in OK for ten years. It is a great place to live, but the failure of the Oklahoma Mental Health Department in following up on the above is unforgivable. They are partially complicit in the deaths at Arrowhead.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
In the decades that I was involved in Scientology, I met no less than ten people who went through a Narconon program and were handled and off drugs as a result. I never met anyone who did the Narconon program and reverted. I'm not saying there haven't been drug reverts from Narconon and I'm not putting myself in a position of "defender of Narconon". I guess I asked for it by saying I had mixed feelings. I have mixed feelings only because of what I have observed with my own two eyes in my own real life.

If I factor in the data that I have not directly observed, then I have to conclude that there are definite problems with this program and that is why I said that I'm happy it is being investigated by state and federal officials. But I'm not going to lie to myself about what I saw and the successes I observed. The program has a certain degree of workability. Lots of things do. I'm not saying Narconon is better or worse than AA or anything else as I have no hard data to base any such statement on and I don't see anyone else doing the hard research to produce those stats either. But I think if you were to look at the big picture, you would see that people die in other drug rehab facilities too. That doesn't make them criminal operations.

God, I feel like such an apologist for Narconon right now and I am NOT. I just don't think the whole thing is 100% evil and a total fraud and no one ever got any help from it. I think anyone who asserts that has no idea what they are talking about.
:omg:

I will assert that Narco-Nuts needs to be closed down - due to what I have seen of the damage Scientology does to people - and the lack of lasting results from Narco-Nuts; Scientology's front group!

I wonder of the 10 people that you claim were helped in Narconon get off drugs and/or Alcohol - how was the rest of their lives going after that? Did their sobriety last, and how long?

Were they able to walk away after the "treatment" and stay sober w/o being plugged in to Scientology?

How much money did they have in the bank, how was their family situation after their involvement with Scientology - any disconnection, divorce, squashed goals?

Did they join staff and are they happy and free?

I have not met ONE Scientologist who can say that they are doing well - I have seen the statistics of their ACTUAL condition - not the "waxing enthusiastic" robotic - "I love Scientology because it is so theta" lie they tell because they are brain washed.

The problem with Narco-Nuts is it feeds Scientology so it needs to be destroyed.

I do not know of any other rehab facilities that brain wash their patients into working for free and getting into a cult as the reward for sobriety and then slowly or quickly fleece them of all their money, their personal goals and their self-determinism.
 

FlagEmDown

Patron
Plain and simple, narCONon is dangerous. Toxic dosages of vitamins may not show immediate effects on the organs, but can show up as debilitating problems years later. Only the temporary licence for the detox portion of Arrowhead expired. They are still open and destroying people's health in the rehab section. :bigcry:
 

Lone Star

Crusader
In the decades that I was involved in Scientology, I met no less than ten people who went through a Narconon program and were handled and off drugs as a result. I never met anyone who did the Narconon program and reverted. I'm not saying there haven't been drug reverts from Narconon and I'm not putting myself in a position of "defender of gNarconon". I guess I asked for it by saying I had mixed feelings. I have mixed feelings only because of what I have observed with my own two eyes in my own real life.

If I factor in the data that I have not directly observed, then I have to conclude that there are definite problems with this program and that is why I said that I'm happy it is being investigated by state and federal officials. But I'm not going to lie to myself about what I saw and the successes I observed. The program has a certain degree of workability. Lots of things do. I'm not saying Narconon is better or worse than AA or anything else as I have no hard data to base any such statement on and I don't see anyone else doing the hard research to produce those stats either. But I think if you were to look at the big picture, you would see that people die in other drug rehab facilities too. That doesn't make them criminal operations.

God, I feel like such an apologist for Narconon right now and I am NOT. I just don't think the whole thing is 100% evil and a total fraud and no one ever got any help from it. I think anyone who asserts that has no idea what they are talking about.

I do have one other thing to say on this though. Other "proven" rehab facilities don't have very good success rates either, so I'm not so impressed with any of the drug treatment facilities anywhere on Earth. I think if someone had this subject really nailed, we'd be seeing someone coming out with 80-90% success. That is what I would call a "proven drug rehab."

If you're inferring that Narconon has an 80-90% success rate then you need to change your nic to iLoveDuplicity. And it is a criminal operation in more ways than one. Put down the koolaide and do some real research. Start with major insurance fraud.
 

PTS

Elliott
I haven't the time to research this once again about my alcoholism, but the are no established and proven therapeutic protocols for drug addiction treatments. The entire subject is murky, there are between few an no objective research results on any drug treatment protocols.

I was "cured" in a combination of losing my wife and AA. In AA meetings, many were drunk or high on drugs. My "cure" was losing my wife.

OTOH, AA is free, whatever good it does..:duh:

You say I'm full of shit and then add that you can't be bothered to provide even one actual fact to support it? :laugh:
Sincerely though, congratulations getting clean. I've heard it ain't easy. :) :hifive:
 

kate8024

-deleted-
I do have one other thing to say on this though. Other "proven" rehab facilities don't have very good success rates either, so I'm not so impressed with any of the drug treatment facilities anywhere on Earth. I think if someone had this subject really nailed, we'd be seeing someone coming out with 80-90% success. That is what I would call a "proven drug rehab."

If you're inferring that Narconon has an 80-90% success rate then you need to change your nic to iLoveDuplicity. And it is a criminal operation in more ways than one. Put down the koolaide and do some real research. Start with major insurance fraud.

How in the world do you get that from that? iHateDuplicity said that if any drug rehab place really knew all about drug rehab than that place would have an 80-90% success rate, but that such a place does not exist and so no place is really a "proven drug rehab"
 

Lone Star

Crusader
How in the world do you get that from that? iHateDuplicity said that if any drug rehab place really knew all about drug rehab than that place would have an 80-90% success rate, but that such a place does not exist and so no place is really a "proven drug rehab"

Narconon has always claimed an 80-90% success rate. Longtime Scientologists such as he/she knows that. I did say "if" he/she is inferring that as true then...
 
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