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owl

Patron with Honors
Hi owl

it gets all the drugs and toxins out of the body? effects of niacin? I've seen one or two things about this on line, when i remember where i saw it i'll post the link, but still my point is....where's the proof? evidence? REAL scientific data to support the claims?

rofl i dont know, i dont think anyone has bothered to do a test about it but that doesnt really matter to me because i could feel the drugs and toxins leaving my body. i would get sensations, tastes, feelings of plastic, drugs, etc. coming out when i did it. i mean i know u guys dont like scientology and stuff but the truth is it does work and i dont need a medical journal to say so to know that.
 

Nurse Pinch

Patron with Honors
rofl i dont know, i dont think anyone has bothered to do a test about it but that doesnt really matter to me because i could feel the drugs and toxins leaving my body. i would get sensations, tastes, feelings of plastic, drugs, etc. coming out when i did it. i mean i know u guys dont like scientology and stuff but the truth is it does work and i dont need a medical journal to say so to know that.

Hi Owl,
Thats great that something positive happened to you on the purif.

Personal anecdotes and success stories are not scientific proof of toxins being expelled from the body in any great quantity however. The power of suggestion or the placebo effect are powerful things, and can be proved to exist.

If the purif really did all that it is suggested, surely a scientific study would have been done on it by now demonstrating its effectiveness. The truth is, that no such independent study exists (if you know of one, please feel free to post a link and prove me wrong).

I am sorry this is a little tldr. It comes from wikipedia (a psych backed organisation):

"
Theoretical basis

The theory behind the Purification Rundown is that toxins, drugs, and radioactive particles are stored in body fat, which are released through the exchange of fats (thus the oil consumption) and exercise, and then finally released via perspiration and other normal mechanisms such as body waste.[citation needed] Independent scientific evaluations report that the concentration of toxins or drugs in the sweat is negligible, as they are primarily removed from the body through the liver, the kidneys and the lungs.[14][6] The notion that toxins from fatty tissue can be sweated out is categorically denied by toxicology experts.[12][6] Evidence offered for the rundown has not demonstrated that detoxification is actually taking place.[24][25] Three experts consulted by The Buffalo News criticised the weak evidence and dubious assumptions behind the program.[26]

A group including five doctors and nine health education experts reviewed Narconon and its materials on behalf of the California Department of Education. The report, published January 2005, described the key assumptions of the Purif as unscientific and inaccurate.[27]

David Root, a medical doctor affiliated with Narconon, has administered the Purif for twenty years and stands by the theory behind it.[9] A non-scientologist, he denies that the program collects money or new members for Scientology.[9]

[edit] Effectiveness and safety

An investigation by the New York Post asked a number of independent doctors about the evidence for the Purification Rundown. None of them endorsed the program's effectiveness and some explicitly described it as dangerous. Several said that no peer-reviewed research on the rundown had been published in any medical journal. Some apparently supportive studies have been published, but these lack control groups and have other scientific failings.[28][6]

Newkirk Herald Journal editor Robert W. Lobsinger solicited a number of medical experts' opinions on the Purification Rundown in 1989.[29] Dr. James Kenney of the National Council Against Health Fraud condemned those administering the "unproven" treatment as guilty of health fraud. He wrote that "[...] the scientific evidence shows the exact opposite of what Hubbard's theory predicts", warning that large doses of niacin could cause liver damage, gout, gastritis, and other serious side-effects. Dr. David Hogg of Toronto said that the program may be detrimental to participants' health.[29] Dr. C. Mark Palmer of Ponca City, rebutted the theory that sweating would clear out drugs, stating that "No matter how much a patient were made to sweat, it could not significantly increase his clearing of most drugs,"[30]

After reviewing materials published by Narconon, University of Oklahoma biochemistry professor Bruce Roe described the program as "a scam" based on "half-truths and pseudo-science."[31] In a 1988 report, Dr. Ronald E. Gots, a toxicology expert from Bethesda, Maryland, called the regimen "quackery," and noted that "no recognized body of toxicologists, no department of occupational medicine, nor any governmental agencies endorse or recommend such treatment."[32] In 1991, the Board of Mental Health in Oklahoma refused to certify the Purification Rundown for use in a Narconon facility on the grounds of potential danger from its high vitamin and mineral doses.[33] A report on Narconon for the Department of Health in California described the mega-doses of vitamins as "hazardous" and "in some cases lethal".[34] Prof. Michael Ryan, a pharmacologist at University College Dublin, told a 2003 court case that the Purification Rundown is scientifically unverified and medically unsafe.[35]

Those who market the Purif insist that it has been proven safe and effective.[12][36] A large quantity of anecdotal evidence has been presented for the Rundown's effectiveness.[citation needed] Some doctors who have observed the treatment have been impressed by the testimonials but asked for evidence that improvements are caused by the program itself rather than suggestion, delusion or the placebo effect.[31] In 2007, psychopharmacology expert John Brick said of his visit to a Manhattan clinic, "Whether it's from some mysterious combination of vitamins or just good diet and exercise, I can't say. But the bottom line is that it helped the patients I talked to." He emphasized the importance of independently verifying the validity of the program, conceding that no causal relationship between the results and the program had been demonstrated.[31]

In a 1999 French court case, five staff members of the Church of Scientology were convicted of fraud for selling the Purif and other Scientology procedures.[37][38] In Russia, the Purification Rundown has been banned by officials as a threat to public health.[39]"
 

owl

Patron with Honors
Hi Owl,
Thats great that something positive happened to you on the purif.

Personal anecdotes and success stories are not scientific proof of toxins being expelled from the body in any great quantity however. The power of suggestion or the placebo effect are powerful things, and can be proved to exist.

If the purif really did all that it is suggested, surely a scientific study would have been done on it by now demonstrating its effectiveness. The truth is, that no such independent study exists (if you know of one, please feel free to post a link and prove me wrong).

I am sorry this is a little tldr. It comes from wikipedia (a psych backed organisation):

"
Theoretical basis

The theory behind the Purification Rundown is that toxins, drugs, and radioactive particles are stored in body fat, which are released through the exchange of fats (thus the oil consumption) and exercise, and then finally released via perspiration and other normal mechanisms such as body waste.[citation needed] Independent scientific evaluations report that the concentration of toxins or drugs in the sweat is negligible, as they are primarily removed from the body through the liver, the kidneys and the lungs.[14][6] The notion that toxins from fatty tissue can be sweated out is categorically denied by toxicology experts.[12][6] Evidence offered for the rundown has not demonstrated that detoxification is actually taking place.[24][25] Three experts consulted by The Buffalo News criticised the weak evidence and dubious assumptions behind the program.[26]

A group including five doctors and nine health education experts reviewed Narconon and its materials on behalf of the California Department of Education. The report, published January 2005, described the key assumptions of the Purif as unscientific and inaccurate.[27]

David Root, a medical doctor affiliated with Narconon, has administered the Purif for twenty years and stands by the theory behind it.[9] A non-scientologist, he denies that the program collects money or new members for Scientology.[9]

[edit] Effectiveness and safety

An investigation by the New York Post asked a number of independent doctors about the evidence for the Purification Rundown. None of them endorsed the program's effectiveness and some explicitly described it as dangerous. Several said that no peer-reviewed research on the rundown had been published in any medical journal. Some apparently supportive studies have been published, but these lack control groups and have other scientific failings.[28][6]

Newkirk Herald Journal editor Robert W. Lobsinger solicited a number of medical experts' opinions on the Purification Rundown in 1989.[29] Dr. James Kenney of the National Council Against Health Fraud condemned those administering the "unproven" treatment as guilty of health fraud. He wrote that "[...] the scientific evidence shows the exact opposite of what Hubbard's theory predicts", warning that large doses of niacin could cause liver damage, gout, gastritis, and other serious side-effects. Dr. David Hogg of Toronto said that the program may be detrimental to participants' health.[29] Dr. C. Mark Palmer of Ponca City, rebutted the theory that sweating would clear out drugs, stating that "No matter how much a patient were made to sweat, it could not significantly increase his clearing of most drugs,"[30]

After reviewing materials published by Narconon, University of Oklahoma biochemistry professor Bruce Roe described the program as "a scam" based on "half-truths and pseudo-science."[31] In a 1988 report, Dr. Ronald E. Gots, a toxicology expert from Bethesda, Maryland, called the regimen "quackery," and noted that "no recognized body of toxicologists, no department of occupational medicine, nor any governmental agencies endorse or recommend such treatment."[32] In 1991, the Board of Mental Health in Oklahoma refused to certify the Purification Rundown for use in a Narconon facility on the grounds of potential danger from its high vitamin and mineral doses.[33] A report on Narconon for the Department of Health in California described the mega-doses of vitamins as "hazardous" and "in some cases lethal".[34] Prof. Michael Ryan, a pharmacologist at University College Dublin, told a 2003 court case that the Purification Rundown is scientifically unverified and medically unsafe.[35]

Those who market the Purif insist that it has been proven safe and effective.[12][36] A large quantity of anecdotal evidence has been presented for the Rundown's effectiveness.[citation needed] Some doctors who have observed the treatment have been impressed by the testimonials but asked for evidence that improvements are caused by the program itself rather than suggestion, delusion or the placebo effect.[31] In 2007, psychopharmacology expert John Brick said of his visit to a Manhattan clinic, "Whether it's from some mysterious combination of vitamins or just good diet and exercise, I can't say. But the bottom line is that it helped the patients I talked to." He emphasized the importance of independently verifying the validity of the program, conceding that no causal relationship between the results and the program had been demonstrated.[31]

In a 1999 French court case, five staff members of the Church of Scientology were convicted of fraud for selling the Purif and other Scientology procedures.[37][38] In Russia, the Purification Rundown has been banned by officials as a threat to public health.[39]"

wikipedia is psych backed?? what do u mean?

it wasn't a placebo effect, i'm not dumb. i could tell it was the opposite of gaining toxins. i know what it feels like to gain them and i know what it feels like to lose them.

that said, i dont know if i would do it again because i honestly feel like i have liver damage from doing it :( im pretty sure i do :( same way i can tell it got the toxins out, i can tell my liver is damaged :(
 

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Owl, If you do have liver damage you should see a medical doctor and find out what you should avoid in the future so that you don't aggravate your condition.
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
southern california

Does anyone have any info on "R. Michael Wisner"?-I've heard he as a private company that sells the purif. He's OT8 and class6 used to call himself Bob on the east coast before departing to the west coast to re invent his persona. Any and all info is appreciated.
 

owl

Patron with Honors
Owl, If you do have liver damage you should see a medical doctor and find out what you should avoid in the future so that you don't aggravate your condition.

thank u, i think i might, i just hate going to the doctor. next time i get a physical ill mention it!
 

FoTi

Crusader
to be honest, the purif does get all the drugs and toxins and things out of your body. i'm not comfortable taking such high quantities of vitamins and minerals though, but it does work. you do feel kind of dazed and weird after though, because of the high doses of niacin i think. but yeah it does work as a body cleanse/detoxifying program, although i'm not sure l ron invented the idea of using niacin as a detoxifier. (he certainly didnt invent using a sauna as a detoxifier)

No, the Purif does NOT get all the drugs and toxins and things out of your body. It didn't with my body and I was on it for 6 months. I later did an herbal program just to improve my health and that did a detox and got a lot more stuff out of my body. It was much more effective than the Purif and I also heard people speak that this herbal program got them off drugs as well. It stopped me from smoking....just lost interest in it....from 2 or 3 packs a day to nothing......that was about 18 years ago and I've never had any desire to smoke since then. The Purif increased my desire to smoke. So, NO the Purif does NOT get all the drugs and toxins and things out of one's body. It may get some out, which can be a good thing. But, it's not thorough.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
No, the Purif does NOT get all the drugs and toxins and things out of your body. It didn't with my body and I was on it for 6 months. I later did an herbal program just to improve my health and that did a detox and got a lot more stuff out of my body. It was much more effective than the Purif and I also heard people speak that this herbal program got them off drugs as well. It stopped me from smoking....just lost interest in it....from 2 or 3 packs a day to nothing......that was about 18 years ago and I've never had any desire to smoke since then. The Purif increased my desire to smoke. So, NO the Purif does NOT get all the drugs and toxins and things out of one's body. It may get some out, which can be a good thing. But, it's not thorough.

Would love some more data on th eprogram you did, FoTi.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sunrider....whole food herbs.....detoxify and nourish the body and then the body begins to regenerate itself. It's yummy and expensive.

I just consumed what's called the Sunpack for several months. Still use them once in a while, when I want a bit of a health boost.

Sunrider International is based out of the Los Angeles area. I think they have a website. It's sold by distributors...network marketing. Check online with the company and they can tell you if there are any distributors in your area, or maybe you can just order online....I'm not sure.

Thanks again, FoTi :)
 

Anon678

Patron
it wasn't a placebo effect, i'm not dumb

You have the ability to tell the difference between a placebo effect and a real effect? Wow, you should go tell modern medicine they've been barking up the wrong tree all this time.
 
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