Nation of Islam fully adopts Scientology anti-psychiatry and anti-psychology position

Re: Nation of Islam fully adopts Scientology anti-psychiatry and anti-psychology posi

Hi, Commander, I'm going to comment here not as a piece of debate but just to balance from my perspective which may differ some so that others reading this, especially any lurkers, "duplicate" my viewpoint for posterity's sake or something stupid like that, this is something I wished I had read a very, very long time ago.

When I read your posts the theme they purvey is that Hubbard's comments and character were defined by the times and, as such, are innocuous given the whole...further that Scientology/Dianetics helps and assists people and by pointing out Hubbard's human flaws tends to muddy the water and lose the forest for the trees. That's, more or less, what your posts imply to me and there's some truth in that sentiment.

........the context of the times is always significant in examining a life's work. what better example of this is there than our own thomas jefferson, slaveowner? with ron you have, for instance, the excerpt from his letter to polly and in the same timeframe his first published novel, "buckskin brigades" which can't be much of a book as bridge pubs has never reissued it but was at the time notable for it's sympathetic portrayal of indigenous people

i really don't see myself as a "hubbard apologist" but i am certainly vulnerable to the charge


Here's where we differ some. I believe that Hubbard's personal commentary from his personal beliefs and out of view goals list are worth pointing out and that the public beliefs, commentary and goals lists that Hubbard and Scientology promote are a scam and a sham and 180 degrees opposite from the real story.

.......yes. everything is worth pointing out. whatever "the real story" is behind the scenes of the organization however, i and all honest students and practitioners take things like the creed and auditor's code at face value and practice them at face value. that "real story" is all too real. that's why i'm here and not there GL. and even with a behind the scenes thing, so long as the organization sells and delivers services that is not a scam. currently they're doing a donations thing which apparently involves very severe scamming. i'm all in favor of honest reporting. as to possible results, many of the results i've gotten are astonishing and i surely believe much better than i have done is possible


For instance, in the bulk and main of Hubbard's personal commentary his beliefs, views and goals are all about exalting Ron and belittling everyone around him...subjugating them to his rule and whimsical desire. People are to be used for the further gain of MEST for Ron in terms of admiration, repute, money, sex, an effortless lifestyle of exorbitant consumption. This comes from his close personal letters to friends and family and peers and employees and such...his diaries...his Affirmations...but mostly from his actions and conduct. Never does one see in all of that material his musings on life or the ills of mankind or how to solve the various maladies and dilemmas of the human's all about Ron and how worthless everyone else is in the scheming, criminal efforts to extort money and industry from society...all about enemies and their lies.

.......all his life ron was an outrageous and egregious self promoter. but, fact is, PR works. were ron's motives absolutely and entirely venal and mercenary? i don't know. they may have been ultimately diabolic and infernal. i see evidence are real virtue in the man and even if it is not there virtue in the heart of the craftsman will produce virtue in the work done with the tools hubbard and his colleagues forged


Then you read the promoted writings of Ron and his promoted actions and the view is entirely different. Instead of a selfish coward we are led to believe Ron is a selfless brave hero. Here Ron and his actions and writings are all about the various troubles and travails that wreak havoc on the human to end war and suffering and create a better world. This sucks people into Scientology which is a two-fold trap and if you look at its actions and conduct quite a bit comes to light.

......i was never led. or at least i was never a follower. but i would scarcely ever entertain the charge that ron was a coward. for all the bravado and selfaggrandizing false bravado it is stone cold dead incontestable that muthuhfukkah was a goddam ballsy sonofabitch. the "clear the planet!" thing is rather grandiose innit? as to "actions and conduct" these are not produced by an "it". they are produced by us; me, you and them other guys and gals. i got a crack in my ass pal. so do you. so do they. not only that, but also... SHIT HAPPENS!!! on a good day one step forward is composed of sixteen steps backward and seventeen forward. other days might twentyeight or thirtyfive steps forward to total one forward


First, there is the "public" Scientology that is more and more geared for the top dollah elite...kind of a celebrity smorgasbord of ego stroking and navel gazing where the subservient staff cater to this where one can wonder in awe about how powerful and theta one is and how one's ability and power has been diminished and held down by "them", the enemies of theta...the SPs, DBs, NCGs, middle class, chaos merchants, governments, etc., etc.

.......fuck a bunch labeling people. it happens and it suxxx...

Second, there is the staff where one "gets it" and saves mankind in spite of itself and in the teeth of the SPs, DBs, NCGs, middle class, chaos merchants, governments, etc., etc. This is where one is elite and mega-ethical and sacrifices all to the cause to the point of having abortions and lives a humble existence of meager means and works every waking moment to save the world and all theta from the dwindling spiral and everything, especially money, must be given to Scientology so that it can win this fight and then, finally, there will be freedom.

......yup. join staff and you'll get all right...

In Ron, the Image, we get to see both of these points. Scientologists oooh and aaaah over how OT, theta, Causative and Powerful Ron was in spite of and in the teeth of the SPs, DBs, NCGs, middle class, chaos merchants, governments, etc., etc. while simultaneously Scientologists oooh and aaaah over how self-sacrificing and humble Ron was, how he worked every waking moment to save the world and all of theta and mankind in spite of itself and in the teeth of the SPs, DBs, NCGs, middle class, chaos merchants, governments, etc., etc. Ron was mega-ethical and Ron "got it". Ron gave all to Scientology and the cause...forgiving vast sums of monies owed to Ron for services rendered...forever humble despite all the attacks and such aimed at to make it go right in the face of all this suppression and taping the only way out for man from the MEST trap that "they" created.

.......yes. CoS whitewashes ron. the antiron's tar and feather him. do the training and auditing or do not do the training and auditing

"do or do not" yoda


Ron writes that he is only a man and is humble and that one need not admiration and we're to believe that every org around the world independently came up with the ideas of "HIP! HIP! HOORAY!" and the following images of mega-Ron.




The idea that Scientology/Dianetics helps or assists people is what muddies the water and is what loses the forest for the trees...the pertinent stuff is what Ron was as a person...his character, intentions, goals lists and conduct. That IS what Scientology/Dianetics IS. It is NOT a viable vessel for helping or assisting anyone but itself and at the criminal expense of those it comes in contact with at every level of society.



auditing and auditor training are good things