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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
(snip)
Every time he says "Peace be unto you", he has a knife behind his back desiring to cut your infidel head off. Peace my ass.

You need to understand the Islamic Definition of peace. Much like Marx defined peace as "the absence of opposition to socialism", the Quran declares that Muslims are obliged to:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah [protection money] willingly while they are humbled.

In other words, Muslims are obliged to fight against those who reject Islam. Thus there cannot be peace until all have submitted to Islam. Thus, a Muslim saying "Peace be upon you" is really saying "May you accept Islam soon, so I don't have to fight you"
 

Stephanie

Patron with Honors
You need to understand the Islamic Definition of peace. Much like Marx defined peace as "the absence of opposition to socialism", the Quran declares that Muslims are obliged to:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah [protection money] willingly while they are humbled.

In other words, Muslims are obliged to fight against those who reject Islam. Thus there cannot be peace until all have submitted to Islam. Thus, a Muslim saying "Peace be upon you" is really saying "May you accept Islam soon, so I don't have to fight you"

I concur, I don't believe any of them are *friendly*
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
Until a person becomes aware of self delusion they will be stuck in the same space. Critical thinking can play a beneficial role in freeing oneself from delusional thought processes, but it has to be applied with rational thought processes.

Using derogatory terms, in the context of you quoted post, such as dumb, devil and she-devil shows that you have a fair amount of anger issues to work through. Attempting to explain the use of these terms in a manner that suggests that the followers of your group may understand them does not apply in this circumstance. When the members in a certain field use terms in a very specific manner they do not twist and manipulate the meaning but rather use a specific meaning of the word so ambiguous implications can be eliminated. Groups that distort the meaning of a word or term away from its original intent tend to want to isolate there members from people around them; from others that use words and there meanings in there intended manner. Also I believe it is a way to hide behind ignorance and attempt to offend the listener/reader when it is directed at an outsider, but with the ability to defend a stance by then saying we do not use this word to mean what you think it means.

In the below quote you are attempting to bully and scare the reader into submission, by isolating them from the people around them in the rest of the world. I am positive that if you were honest with yourself you would see this. By using such words as dumb you are implying the person that has certain opinions is below average intelligence and their ideas are not worthy of consideration. Using the word devil is stating the person is of evil intent. You have attempted to explain away the use of these words in a manner that ascribes new meanings to them, not a more explicit meaning.

It is quite obvious that you have deliberately misused the meaning of science as well. Dianectics is not a science and to state to others that it is, is a lie. The awful thing here is I could call you a devil and then attempt to explain that I call you so because you know the intent of my meaning. I am absolutely positive though that by using the word devil to describe you would be offensive, as you have deliberately used the word offensively in your post.

Attempting to subjugate your followers into submission must be tiring. Also I personally believe it shows that the product you are selling is unable to stand on its own if fear and lies are its selling point.

by theactualfacts » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:41 pm
First let us deal with the lying, dumb devil and then we will deal with those of you who are following this lying, dumb devil's line of thinking.

First of all, every thing this lying, dumb devil says concerning what Minister Farrakhan has said or done, by her own admission, is either something she heard or speculated, thus her conclusions concerning Minister Farrakhan's intentions only support her own agenda and has nothing to do with truth.


1. This She-devil stated that Minister Farrakhan wanted "All of the Nation signing up for these courses"which is a blatant lie. Minister Farrakhan will send certain people to become "certified" in the technological tool called "dianetics" and then they will use this tool to train in-house. Furthermore, Min Farrakhan never intended all of the Believers to sign up for this specific training with the Church of Scientology and no Believer would ever sign up to join Scientology or sign any contract that this dumb devil signed.

2. This She-devil stated that Min Farrakhan said ""Either you are going to join on Tuesday night or we are going to have to say good bye". That was not what Minister Farrakhan said, implied, or interpreted. Those who did not what to study the "dianectics" course would never be compelled nor would they be put out of the nation. However, those who wanted to be in the leadership capacity, would need to study and become proficient not only with the Supreme Wisdom, lessons and teaching of Messenger Muhammad, but also with the sciences associated with self improvement and self analysis which "dianectics" has shown to offer. If someone has a better self analysis tool, they should come forward and present their science.

It appears that some of you have no problem accepting a she-devil's word, interpretation, and assumptions over a brother whom Messenger Muhammad personally chose to give us guidance. Some of you are so filled with self-hatred and blurred vision that you actually believe that Minister Farrakhan has not thoroughly investigated the Church of Scientology and all the dangers attached to dealing with known devils. Min Farrakhan not only has a thorough knowledge of the dangers, but has carefully mapped out how to navigate around them.

It is common knowledge that Messenger Muhammad taught their were three areas of science that the devil had knowledge of but would not teach the black man and woman. Those areas were Military Science, Science of Mating, and the true Science of Business. If we are able to extract some of this science we are obligated to do such. Since Messenger Muhammad said that the white man did not teach the black man these sciences, then it is only logical and prudent that we find a white man who has a course of study that would be a beneficial science that we find some way learn that science from him.

Finally, it never ceases to amaze me how some of you constantly claim that you are following Messenger Muhammad's teachings without ever being called to account for the evidence or proof that is necessary to actually show how you are in fact following Messenger Muhammad. Messenger Muhammad's teachings provided tangible results. Our people are worse off now then they were when Messenger Muhammad started his mission and those claiming they are following his blueprint are either in manifest error or are just out right lying. Minister Farrakhan understands that we have the "Supreme Wisdom" but He also knows that yes we should get our "Supreme Wisdom" but in all our getting, we should get "Supreme Understanding". He [Min Farrakhan] is working to do what He can to provide all that is in the earth to help us become the best Muslims that we can. He has not attacked any of you, he has not stopped any of you from doing what you believe is best, He has not spoken out against you, and He does not teach those with Him to be aggressive to you. Your energies would be better served if you would direct them to building for black people rather then dredging up silly she-devils trying to make a fool out of you.

In The Name Of Allah, "Corruption has appeared in the land and the sea on account of that which men's hands have wrought, that He may make them taste a part of that which they have done, so that they may return. [Holy Qur-an 30:41]

theactualfactsGod Level
Posts: 1497Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:34 pmLocation: Chicago​
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SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
You need to understand the Islamic Definition of peace. Much like Marx defined peace as "the absence of opposition to socialism", the Quran declares that Muslims are obliged to:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah [protection money] willingly while they are humbled.

In other words, Muslims are obliged to fight against those who reject Islam. Thus there cannot be peace until all have submitted to Islam. Thus, a Muslim saying "Peace be upon you" is really saying "May you accept Islam soon, so I don't have to fight you"

The reality is more complex than you are making it out to be.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
hubbardbigot.jpg



HT - Facebook Group Scientology Invasion of the Black Community: http://www.facebook.com/groups/ScientologyInvasion.of.the.BlackCommunity/permalink/429899283758219/



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CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Question for Barney Muhammad re: L. Ron Hubbard mocking Islam and Muhammad

Mr. Barney Muhammad,

Another question, if I may.

Are you confident that it is wise for the Nation of Islam to ally itself with, and indeed accept spiritual counseling and "technology" from, a religion, the Church of Scientology, whose Founder, L. Ron Hubbard, mocked, denied, invalidated and disrespected both Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, May Peace Be Upon Him? I respectfully refer you to the following video:

[video=youtube_share;ZbT6bQi-1bw]http://youtu.be/ZbT6bQi-1bw[/video]

As always, may peace be unto you.
Respectfully,
CommunicatorIC
 

Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
[video]http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqISGeiVSQBMA8Br7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBzOG gyNGpnBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMTU-?p=scientology&vid=1a1aa15552979a10e4e6ff56e4204c6f&l=&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.48 10020915054583%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymotion.com%2Fvideo%2Fx1 3pp05_has-scientology-become-a-headache-4-louis-farrakhan_news&tit=Has+Scientology+Become+A+Headache+4+Louis+Farr akhan+%3F&c=4&sigr=131sunigr&pstcat=religion&age=0&fr=yfp-t-900&tt=b[/video]
 

wll

Patron
[video]http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqISGeiVSQBMA8Br7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBzOG gyNGpnBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMTU-?p=scientology&vid=1a1aa15552979a10e4e6ff56e4204c6f&l=&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.48 10020915054583%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymotion.com%2Fvideo%2Fx1 3pp05_has-scientology-become-a-headache-4-louis-farrakhan_news&tit=Has+Scientology+Become+A+Headache+4+Louis+Farr akhan+%3F&c=4&sigr=131sunigr&pstcat=religion&age=0&fr=yfp-t-900&tt=b[/video]

His voice and his elocution gives me a headache. Which is too bad...because many of the things he is saying are true.
 

wll

Patron
You need to understand the Islamic Definition of peace. Much like Marx defined peace as "the absence of opposition to socialism", the Quran declares that Muslims are obliged to:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah [protection money] willingly while they are humbled.

In other words, Muslims are obliged to fight against those who reject Islam. Thus there cannot be peace until all have submitted to Islam. Thus, a Muslim saying "Peace be upon you" is really saying "May you accept Islam soon, so I don't have to fight you"

You need to understand that people continually misrepresent Islam. Peace in Islam does not mean absence of different views; it means exactly what it says: Peace, whether you are a Muslim or not. If someone rejects Islam, so be it. God chooses whom he will make his own and faith cannot be engendered through coercion. As long as one is not practicing violence against God's servants, let it be as God wills. No true servant of God ever lifts his hand against another unless it is in defense of one's self or others.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
The indoctrination of people into COS and NOI ideology and group affiliations is something we should advocate. I look at these cults as socially engineered containment units for certain personality types.

The reality is these people have nowhere else to go and really nothing else to contribute to society.

As long as they're busy listening to Louis Farrakhan and L Ron Hubbard talking in circles, at least they will be kept busy and out of the way of normal people. I really don't see what the problem is.

I mean honestly, do you really want the Barney Muhammeds of the world being left to their own devices or would you rather Louis Farrakhan attract them into his cult so we can at least have some kind of "meme" indicator of the general level of impressionability, intelligence and emotional situation of these people?

Interestingly insulting viewpoint to a group of people who used to be cultists and who are now in mainstream society and contributing to that society. Most of us on the board were card carrying scientologists at one time, I see no reason why we should have been concentrated together because of ''obvious lack of intelligence'' etc.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
You need to understand that people continually misrepresent Islam. Peace in Islam does not mean absence of different views; it means exactly what it says: Peace, whether you are a Muslim or not. If someone rejects Islam, so be it. God chooses whom he will make his own and faith cannot be engendered through coercion. As long as one is not practicing violence against God's servants, let it be as God wills. No true servant of God ever lifts his hand against another unless it is in defense of one's self or others.

I understand what you say, but the fact is that hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed by other Muslims, in Northern Africa, In Iran and Iraq, in Afghanistan and in Pakistan.

White Christian missionaries committed some evil acts in their time, killing people who refused to convert, destroying peoples cultures and forcing in laws that made the normal lives of people punishable. American evangelists right now are in places like Uganda telling the government to kill gay people. They also preach that god is love. All of that doesn't mean that Christianity is evil. Some Christians are evil, yes, but some are wonderful people. The point to me is that Islam is not one 'thing' either. There are so many countries claiming to be Islamic that are socio-politically so different from each other, and usually they are corrupt. That doesn't mean that Islam is corrupt, it means that politicians are, as they are in UK, USA and Australia. In Sudan women have been publicly whipped for wearing trousers, even if under their traditional clothes. Pakistani women wearing dresses have be attacked with acid for being unislamic by extremists, girls getting shot for going to school these things happen, it is documented but though it was all done in the name of Islam it is not following the principles of Islam, any more than a missionary killing a child for being a non believer would be following the principles of Christianity. Islam is the religion of many people in very different cultures, until recent times, in most of those places you would find Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc living happily side by side.

What has changed is a good point. I don't know, but overall there seems to be a tendency to fundamentalism. However this fundamentalism is not based on the fundemental principles of the religion but a sort of Nazi nationalist alteration of the religion, more about group identity and opposition to any other group identity. The trend is found in all the religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism too. It also goes along with nationalism and culturism, as in fundamentalists in Pakistan, Sudan, Israel, Palestine etc beating up men or women who wear western clothes.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
You need to understand that people continually misrepresent Islam. Peace in Islam does not mean absence of different views; it means exactly what it says: Peace, whether you are a Muslim or not. If someone rejects Islam, so be it. God chooses whom he will make his own and faith cannot be engendered through coercion. As long as one is not practicing violence against God's servants, let it be as God wills. No true servant of God ever lifts his hand against another unless it is in defense of one's self or others.

re: "If someone rejects Islam, so be it."

So you reject the doctrine where apostates (ex-Muslims who have walked away from Islam) being subject to death, as per the following hadith (among others):

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Do you reject the above Hadith?

ADDING: There's also

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Do you also reject the above hadith?
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
You need to understand that people continually misrepresent Islam. Peace in Islam does not mean absence of different views; it means exactly what it says: Peace, whether you are a Muslim or not. If someone rejects Islam, so be it.

You are either COMPLETELY ignorant of Islame or, are lying.

Below are just some of the laws that moderate muslims believe that they MUST live by or perish.

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).



Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.



Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."



Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.



Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.



Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.



Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."



Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).



Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)



Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.



Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."



Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.



Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.



Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.



Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.


From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.



Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.



Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'



Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)



Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious



Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah



Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."



Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."



Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."



Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."



Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"



Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"



Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."



Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.



Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.



Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.



Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.



Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
You are either COMPLETELY ignorant of Islame or, are lying.

Below are just some of the laws that moderate muslims believe that they MUST live by or perish.

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).



Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.



Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."



Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.



Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.



Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.



Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."



Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).



Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)



Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.



Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."



Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.



Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.



Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.



Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.


From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.



Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.



Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'



Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)



Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious



Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah



Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."



Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."



Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."



Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."



Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"



Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"



Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."



Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.



Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.



Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.



Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.



Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.

That might be what is written, it is not what is practised. 'Moderate' Muslims live quite happily side by side with immoderate whoring heavy drinking atheists. Don't look at words have a look at the real world. I live surrounded by Muslims and Sikhs with plenty of heavy drinking Poles mixed in for greater diversity. My local shop has Halal meat right next to the Polish Pork sausages. You can buy Halal jelly mix and mix it with Vodka all bought from the same Turkish owner. Odd though it may seem Muslims are human beings. Why do you insist on spreading terror?

Christianity has been used to support the Slave trade, the mass murder of Jews etc ignore the written word. In Spain converted Muslims and Jews were also slaughtered. It's irrelevant. All Muslims are not strapping themselves with explosives. Chill out and have a cup of tea with an Arab neighbour.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
That might be what is written, it is not what is practised. 'Moderate' Muslims live quite happily side by side with immoderate whoring heavy drinking atheists. Don't look at words have a look at the real world. I live surrounded by Muslims and Sikhs with plenty of heavy drinking Poles mixed in for greater diversity. My local shop has Halal meat right next to the Polish Pork sausages. You can buy Halal jelly mix and mix it with Vodka all bought from the same Turkish owner. Odd though it may seem Muslims are human beings. Why do you insist on spreading terror?

Christianity has been used to support the Slave trade, the mass murder of Jews etc ignore the written word. In Spain converted Muslims and Jews were also slaughtered. It's irrelevant. All Muslims are not strapping themselves with explosives. Chill out and have a cup of tea with an Arab neighbour.

A person may be ethnically Muslim (ie, come from an Islamic culture) and yet not be religiously Muslim (believe that the Qur'an is the revealed word of Allah, as dictated to Mohammed). By "Muslim" both OhMG and I are referring to the religiously Muslim.

Someone who is religiously Muslim is obligated to support jihad, whether by direct participation or indirect support (e.g. sending money to charities which covertly fund jihad).
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
That might be what is written, it is not what is practised.

Really? EVERY Muslim (adherent of that religion) I've asked says that the koran is holy, true and must be followed. Please introduce us to these other Muslims. IF you actually know any that feel otherwise...

I'll wait...
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
A person may be ethnically Muslim (ie, come from an Islamic culture) and yet not be religiously Muslim (believe that the Qur'an is the revealed word of Allah, as dictated to Mohammed). By "Muslim" both OhMG and I are referring to the religiously Muslim.

Someone who is religiously Muslim is obligated to support jihad, whether by direct participation or indirect support (e.g. sending money to charities which covertly fund jihad).

So a practising Jew who opposes slavery is not actually "religiously Jewish"?

Lots of religious people believe things contrary to what their supposed "holy books" say. To deny their existence is absurd.
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
So a practising Jew who opposes slavery is not actually "religiously Jewish"?

Lots of religious people believe things contrary to what their supposed "holy books" say. To deny their existence is absurd.

Auto plonk due to Strawman.
 
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