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AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Tory also became involved with Scientology in 1969 - not 1991 as is claimed in this post. In actual fact she has had thirty years' experience within the group and another 13 years of personal experience as a Scientology critic and target of their reviled fair game "tech".

Yes, thanks for correcting the record here on that. That she-devil comment was written in 2010. Does Mr. Muhammad know that Tory and Jesse are long time friends? Does Jesse even know Mr. Muhammad wrote that about her and her video?

[video=youtube_share;LKWOb4Gjg8Y]http://youtu.be/LKWOb4Gjg8Y[/video]

It's clear to me that Mr. Muhammad is a proponent of Scientology, despite all the bad stuff he knows about it. Despite all that Jesse told him about his experiences when in and out of the cult.

Since Muhammad claims to be a childhood friend of Jesse's, and is on Jesse's Facebook friend list, I hope he goes and discusses this with Jesse if he hasn't already. Calling Tory a she-devil was extremely ignorant and rude. Her message is important, relevant and full of facts Mr. Muhammed just doesn't want NOI members to hear. Poor Jesse..... is probably caught between a rock and a hard place on this relationship. Watch your back, Jesse. You might be being used.
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
I am sure that the NOI is very much like Scientology in certain ways.

It attracts new followers with promises of a better tomorrow.

It hooks new members with really nice sounding WORDS.

But, also like Scientology, a great deal of the machinations and behind-the-scenes manipulation and power playing are hidden from view.

They both exhibit traits of a cult of personality.

In a certain regard they are made for each other.

But as a few others have pointed out, wait until the first disagreements and disaffections start. Wait until a few get expelled, and all friends and relatives get forcibly disconnected. It won't be nice. But then, more chaos for the Church of Scientology can ONLY be a good thing. :thumbsup:

Oh, and in a metaphorical sense, Hubbard IS very much a "white devil". :yes:

I wonder if members of the NOI have read the various things Hubbard had to say about blacks? Who has the reference on Hubbard's little talk about how a southern black talks to his "hat" (and inanimate objects in general).
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
COS says Louis Farrakhan paid $2.3 million plus FSM commissions for NOI hook-up

[video=youtube_share;EqD5YlXnq84]http://youtu.be/EqD5YlXnq84[/video]

If anyone cares, here’s what I pieced together from the above conversation and a little Internet research.

This conference call is among members of a small Kansas City-based Black Muslim group called United Nation of Islam (UNOI). UNOI competes with the NOI. UNOI is led by Royall Jenkins (“Father”) who believes Louis Farrakhan is Allah’s most formidable enemy. The speaker is debriefing the others about UNOI members’ conversations with the Church of Scientology.

He gives the impression that these UNOI / COS conversations occurred because the COS thought UNOI might like to strike the same kind of deal the COS had struck with NOI.

The good stuff starts at about 6’30”. The speaker says that he was told by the COS that in exchange for the NOI and COS hooking up the COS gave Farrakhan a $2.3 million up-front fee plus a percentage (“cut”) of all NOI members’ course fees and a percentage of all NOI members’ “move-up” fees as they members go upward in Scientology, which the speaker says has ten levels.

The speaker says he was told about this financial arrangement between Farrakhan and the COS quite matter-of-factly by a higher-up in Scientology whose first name is “Mark” (perhaps a reg?).

According to the speaker, sometime before this deal was struck Farrakhan had gone to Scientology seeking help with his cancer. He had already had several surgeries and hoped to avoid future operations by getting some Scientology healing. The Church of Scientology, however, determined they couldn’t help him, so Farrakhan went ahead and got the surgery. And out of these interactions, more conversations developed that led to the NOI and COS hooking up officially.

Later in the call (around 14:45), a second speaker appears to shed light on who approached whom about the $2.3 million deal that developed between Farrakhan and the COS. The second speaker says “Louie” started the conversation, but to my ear it sounded like it was pretty mutual.

Then there’s some discussion about the wonderful knowledge that the UNOI’s Father / Jenkins has been dispensing for some time. According to the speakers, “Louie” was motivated to hook up with the COS to get access to Scientology’s knowledge, which the speakers say parallels in many ways the UNOI Father’s own knowledge about body thetans (although he doesn’t call them that), which seek bodies, power and control of the Black Man. Because Father had already been teaching that stuff to his UNOI flock, Louie apparently did not want Father / Jenkins to get ahead of him and develop a competitive edge in the Black Muslim marketplace. Lizards are also mentioned.

According to Wikipedia, Father / Jenkins teaches his UNOI followers that Black Men are the original human beings, while White Men were created 8,000 years ago by a scientist named Yakub. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nation_of_Islam.) He also teaches that Black Women are in cahoots with White Men, and together they work to keep the Black Man down -- mostly through Black Women's requests for divorce, child support, child custody and alimony.

Not surprisingly, the UNOI also has its critics, including two of Father / Jenkins’ children. One Jenkins daughter – who left the UNOI and was then harassed for six years while seeking a divorce from her UNOI husband and custody of her children – “died at her home … shortly after her 45th birthday.” Ibid.

Oy vey.

TG1
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I cannot understand why Mr Farrakhan is looking to a man like this for wisdom.

A leader of a group will not look to Scientology for wisdom, especially after having done even a tiny bit of research.

A leader of a group will only come to Scientology looking for mental-control techniques to use upon his followers.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Yes, thanks for correcting the record here on that. That she-devil comment was written in 2010. Does Mr. Muhammad know that Tory and Jesse are long time friends? Does Jesse even know Mr. Muhammad wrote that about her? Since he's a childhood friend of Jesse's, and on Jesse's friend list, I hope he goes and discusses this with Jesse if he hasn't already. Calling Tory a she-devil was extremely ignorant and rude.

It's clear to me that Mr. Muhammad is a proponent of Scientology, despite all the bad stuff he knows about it. Despite all that Jesse told him about his experiences when in and out of the cult. Poor Jesse..... is probably caught between a rock and a hard place on this relationship. Watch your back, Jesse. You might be being used.

It is common for Scientologists to ignore and repress their own observations of what is truly wrong and messed up with Hubbard and Scientology, because just like Morpheus with Neo in The Matrix, he or she REALLY BELIEVES THAT SCIENTOLOGY IS THE ONE!

And, they believe it so strongly that they will put up with various faults, and even genuine evils, to possess and gain what they IMAGINE to be the benefits of Scientology. This involves a betrayal to ones own highest ideals - committed out of personal selfishness.

I remember having a conversation with a friend before I got declared. He was on OT VII at the time, and had been involved over 20 years at THAT point. We talked about the various lies, deceptions, faults of Hubbard, nastinesses of OSA, and so forth. He didn't disagree with any of it. He was actually a pretty sharp and smart fellow. But he BELIEVED so strongly that Scientology had the ONLY WAY OUT and the ONLY chance for him to gain "spiritual immortality", that he said he was willing to ignore all of that to get what he wanted. He said that he wouldn't allow the stupidity of Hubbard or his own church, in certain regards, stop him from getting what HE WANTED out of Scientology. Of course, he still gave them lots of money to do the things he didn't agree with. :duh:

It came down to his selfishness. He knew that his church was lying and harming people through its routine actions, and was helped by the money he gave to them. He wasn't rich, but he made a good income and gave them a hefty chuck each year.

He chose to ignore all of the bad to get what he saw to be a very valuable and worthwhile "good". That is where the claims and promises of Hubbard about Scientology enter the equation as BAIT. They hook the Scientology believer.

I suspect that the leaders of the NOI are doing the same sort of thing. They don't mind if others are hurt as long as their own group (and race) benefits. As long as they get what they want, or for as long as they enjoy the delusion that they are getting what they want from Scientology, they will happily ignore all of the negatives.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
If anyone cares, here’s what I pieced together from the above conversation and a little Internet research.

This conference call is among members of a small Kansas City-based Black Muslim group called United Nation of Islam (UNOI). UNOI competes with the NOI. UNOI is led by Royall Jenkins (“Father”) who believes Louis Farrakhan is Allah’s most formidable enemy. The speaker is debriefing the others about UNOI members’ conversations with the Church of Scientology.

He gives the impression that these UNOI / COS conversations occurred because the COS thought UNOI might like to strike the same kind of deal the COS had struck with NOI.

The good stuff starts at about 6’30”. The speaker says that he was told by the COS that in exchange for the NOI and COS hooking up the COS gave Farrakhan a $2.3 million up-front fee plus a percentage (“cut”) of all NOI members’ course fees and a percentage of all NOI members’ “move-up” fees as they members go upward in Scientology, which the speaker says has ten levels.

The speaker says he was told about this financial arrangement between Farrakhan and the COS quite matter-of-factly by a higher-up in Scientology whose first name is “Mark” (perhaps a reg?).

According to the speaker, sometime before this deal was struck Farrakhan had gone to Scientology seeking help with his cancer. He had already had several surgeries and hoped to avoid future operations by getting some Scientology healing. The Church of Scientology, however, determined they couldn’t help him, so Farrakhan went ahead and got the surgery. And out of these interactions, more conversations developed that led to the NOI and COS hooking up officially.

Later in the call (around 14:45), a second speaker appears to shed light on who approached whom about the $2.3 million deal that developed between Farrakhan and the COS. The second speaker says “Louie” started the conversation, but to my ear it sounded like it was pretty mutual.

Then there’s some discussion about the wonderful knowledge that the UNOI’s Father / Jenkins has been dispensing for some time. According to the speakers, “Louie” was motivated to hook up with the COS to get access to Scientology’s knowledge, which the speakers say parallels in many ways the UNOI Father’s own knowledge about body thetans (although he doesn’t call them that), which seek bodies, power and control of the Black Man. Because Father had already been teaching that stuff to his UNOI flock, Louie apparently did not want Father / Jenkins to get ahead of him and develop a competitive edge in the Black Muslim marketplace. Lizards are also mentioned.

According to Wikipedia, Father / Jenkins teaches his UNOI followers that Black Men are the original human beings, while White Men were created 8,000 years ago by a scientist named Yakub. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nation_of_Islam.) He also teaches that Black Women are in cahoots with White Men, and together they work to keep the Black Man down -- mostly through Black Women's requests for divorce, child support, child custody and alimony.

Not surprisingly, the UNOI also has its critics, including two of Father / Jenkins’ children. One Jenkins daughter – who left the UNOI and was then harassed for six years while seeking a divorce from her UNOI husband and custody of her children – “died at her home … shortly after her 45th birthday.” Ibid.

Oy vey.

TG1

Thanks for the research and breaking the phone call down. I listened to it yesterday but could only do so while doing something else and was planning on re-listening. Now I don't have to, which is good. :thumbsup:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: COS says Louis Farrakhan paid $2.3 million plus FSM commissions for NOI hook-up

One Jenkins daughter – who left the UNOI and was then harassed for six years while seeking a divorce from her UNOI husband and custody of her children – “died at her home … shortly after her 45th birthday.” Ibid.

Oy vey.

TG1

Well, it seems that the NOI and COS very much agree with how to handle dissidents - HARASS the shit out of them! :ohmy:
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I wonder if this has to do with this posting last week.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...im-Jones-Scientology-Nation-of-Islam&p=776713
If you are actually real, and are not some sort of troll, then I suggest you read what real people with real experiences with the nasty Church of Scientology have to say here.

Combined there are probably many HUNDREDS of personal stories and many HUNDREDS of YEARS of combined experience with this tyrannical organization.

There isn't much we need to "exchange" and get from you or anyone else. We have been there, and we have seen it with our own eyes.

There are many intelligent, caring and honest people here who simply tell the truth about Hubbard and Scientology. What you will get from the Church of Scientology is endless PR, carefully orchestrated propaganda, lies, deceptions, phony claims, bogus statements, and misrepresentations of all sorts about many things. Hubbard fine-tuned the art of propaganda to a level never before seen on Earth. His Scientology organization is all about excessive control.

Fundamentally it is a manipulative, oppressive and very nasty group that ONLY considers its own survival as the ONLY primary concern. It will and often has hurt innocent people in the name of protecting its own image and interests. If there is a Devil, it talks and works through the Church of Scientology.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: COS says Louis Farrakhan paid $2.3 million plus FSM commissions for NOI hook-up

Well, it seems that the NOI and COS very much agree with how to handle dissidents - HARASS the shit out of them! :ohmy:
Ahhh be careful there.. That was the UNOI.. Now we are talking about THREE different cults with THREE different leaders!

With UNOI fighting NOI for control of the cult founded by "Depression-era con-man, and convicted drugdealer, Wallace Dodd Ford." later known as Elijah Muhammad.
 

Lone Star

Crusader


I think you're on to something FT. Communicator IC also posts on Facebook's 'Scientology Invasion of the Black Community' page as John Smith.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/339...id=424000377681443&offset=0&total_comments=39

His ESMB post of last week may have spurred a desire to "handle" him and the subject of the NOI/CoS marriage, or adulterous union if you will.

It's definitely load up on the popcorn time. :drama:
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Re: COS says Louis Farrakhan paid $2.3 million plus FSM commissions for NOI hook-up

Well, it seems that the NOI and COS very much agree with how to handle dissidents - HARASS the shit out of them! :ohmy:

Or murder them, e.g., Malcolm X.

TG1
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: COS says Louis Farrakhan paid $2.3 million plus FSM commissions for NOI hook-up

Or murder them, e.g., Malcolm X.

TG1

Well, sometimes realizing the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics requires some "sacrifice" (of OTHERS of course). (sarcasm)

There was a great line said by one of the right-wing Christian zealots in Forgiving the Franklins:

"Sometimes we must do some not-so-nice things to realize God's wishes" (paraphrased) :duh:

With all of these lunatics the maxim is always: The End Justifies the Means.

Of course, it is usually an IDEALISTIC and UNREALIZABLE "end" that prompts and justifies the many horrendous "means". A book could be written about how Scientology has done and continues to do that - in the name of defending and safeguarding the Scientology religion. :puke2:
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Yes, thanks for correcting the record here on that. That she-devil comment was written in 2010. Does Mr. Muhammad know that Tory and Jesse are long time friends? Does Jesse even know Mr. Muhammad wrote that about her and her video?

[video=youtube_share;LKWOb4Gjg8Y]http://youtu.be/LKWOb4Gjg8Y[/video]

It's clear to me that Mr. Muhammad is a proponent of Scientology, despite all the bad stuff he knows about it. Despite all that Jesse told him about his experiences when in and out of the cult.

Since Muhammad claims to be a childhood friend of Jesse's, and is on Jesse's Facebook friend list, I hope he goes and discusses this with Jesse if he hasn't already. Calling Tory a she-devil was extremely ignorant and rude. Her message is important, relevant and full of facts Mr. Muhammed just doesn't want NOI members to hear. Poor Jesse..... is probably caught between a rock and a hard place on this relationship. Watch your back, Jesse. You might be being used.
(My bold)

I do hope Jesse's health status allows such a discussion. But just in case it doesn't, I wish Jesse to get well soon, and all the best.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Re: COS says Louis Farrakhan paid $2.3 million plus FSM commissions for NOI hook-up

Well, sometimes realizing the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics requires some "sacrifice" (of OTHERS of course). (sarcasm)

There was a great line said by one of the right-wing Christian zealots in Forgiving the Franklins:

"Sometimes we must do some not-so-nice things to realize God's wishes" (paraphrased) :duh:

With all of these lunatics the maxim is always: The End Justifies the Means.

Of course, it is usually an IDEALISTIC and UNREALIZABLE "end" that prompts and justifies the many horrendous "means". A book could be written about how Scientology has done and continues to do that - in the name of defending and safeguarding the Scientology religion. :puke2:


What I like about L(iar) Ron Hubbard's "Church" of Scientology isn't the religious cloaking of calling it a church or the scientific cloaking of calling it Scientology so much as I like the fact that it promotes that it stands for a world without war, crime and insanity and then when you find out that's a lie and tell others the "Church" immediately goes into gear by declaring war on you and commiting insane criminal acts against you to silence your expose.

With ARC,

guanoloco
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Faith begets authority begets demagogues.

And demagogues always ensure that their means justify their ends.

The only trick is convincing his sheeple that they, too, will share in his ends.

Therein lies the magick.

TG1
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
(My bold)

I do hope Jesse's health status allows such a discussion. But just in case it doesn't, I wish Jesse to get well soon, and all the best.

Mr. Barney Muhammad already said in this thread that he has discussed Scientology in great depth with Jesse. However "because of scheduling problems," Jesse and Mr. Farrakhan have been unable to get together.

I call BS. I don't think "the trouble with Scientology" is of any concern whatsoever to either Mr. Farrakah or Mr. Muhammad -- except to the extent it reduces NOI's revenue.

TG1
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Do y'all think he will be back? Have y'all been reading the comments about this on that fb page?

There are a few discussions and comments.. Look on the main page https://www.facebook.com/groups/339486949466120/

Our own IC has been trying to keep them in the loop but they don't want to come here or advise from what I see.

I'd like to know more about the origins of this group.. Are they another splinter group of the NOI?
 
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Lone Star

Crusader
Do y'all think he will be back? Have y'all been reading the comments about this on that fb page?

There are a few discussions and comments.. Look on the main page https://www.facebook.com/groups/339486949466120/

Our own IC has been trying to keep them in the loop but they don't want to come here or advise from what I see.

I'd like to know more about the origins of this group.. Are they another splinter group of the NOI?

He may not be back today due to some annual event/celebration going on today. Savior's Day I think. Maybe they're adding LRH to the Savior's list. :eyeroll:

I have been reading the FB page. Very interesting.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: COS says Louis Farrakhan paid $2.3 million plus FSM commissions for NOI hook-up

What I like about L(iar) Ron Hubbard's "Church" of Scientology isn't the religious cloaking of calling it a church or the scientific cloaking of calling it Scientology so much as I like the fact that it promotes that it stands for a world without war, crime and insanity and then when you find out that's a lie and tell others the "Church" immediately goes into gear by declaring war on you and committing insane criminal acts against you to silence your expose.

With ARC,

guanoloco

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Wonderful! A perfectly concise description of the contradictions and nastiness that is Scientology.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Do y'all think he will be back? Have y'all been reading the comments about this on that fb page?

There are a few discussions and comments.. Look on the main page https://www.facebook.com/groups/339486949466120/

Our own IC has been trying to keep them in the loop but they don't want to come here or advise from what I see.

I'd like to know more about the origins of this group.. Are they another splinter group of the NOI?

Thanks for the link - and I have just been there. A few thoughts ...

1. They really don't like pigs. At all.

2. They don't like Messrs. Louis Fararkhan or Barney Muhammad much either.

3. John Smith / IC Communicator knows provocateur tek.

4. They do some excellent shooping over there ... see https://www.facebook.com/groups/339...55234221&set=o.339486949466120&type=1&theater


TG1
 
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