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NBC interview: Marty Rathbun & cult harassment.. YT vids being taken down..

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
IMO

1. we need to define "crime" in regards to Marty (like persuing SPs when he was still "in").

2. don't expect admissions from them that could invoke legal troubles (that's a silly expectation).
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Yeah..I keep hearing about these "crimes" Rathbun & Rinder "must have committed" but no one ever tells me what they are or offer up any documentation or evidence of these mysterious "crimes".

Being in their respective positions in the CoS would have meant they committed certain "crimes" every day, but as I understand it they make no secret of those & have admitted they acted badly. But thats not enough..there must be more.....

I also keep hearing "they haven't told all...they need to tell all" but again no-one seems to know what that "all" is that they haven't told.

So what are these crimes, this "all" that needs to be spilled by Rathbun & Rinder?

I don't understand that either. :confused2:
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I started out saying I understood and had compassion for him. Then I expressed my schadenfreude over his tears in my loveably obscene manner. Lonestar objected and still refuses to communicate with me directly despite polite efforts on my part to do so. I may be new here as a poster but I am not ignorant of much of what has gone on over the years. I've been to Clambake and xenutv for years. Ditto Lermanet and others. Dude just flamed me cuz he reacted. He refused my attempts at peacemaking. Don't know what else I could have done.

Let it go. You're entitled to your opinions just as much as anyone else here. :)
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah..I keep hearing about these "crimes" Rathbun & Rinder "must have committed" but no one ever tells me what they are or offer up any documentation or evidence of these mysterious "crimes".

Being in their respective positions in the CoS would have meant they committed certain "crimes" every day, but as I understand it they make no secret of those & have admitted they acted badly. But thats not enough..there must be more.....

I also keep hearing "they haven't told all...they need to tell all" but again no-one seems to know what that "all" is that they haven't told.

So what are these crimes, this "all" that needs to be spilled by Rathbun & Rinder?

I'm glad you posted this Emma.
I'm glad Pooks posted hers.
Marty was never part of a a dirty cabal of dirty PIs doing criminal acts.
For weeks, months, years of his life he was on legal assignments as the chief Legal officer and
he worked with lawyers morning noon and night.
For 2-3 years he worked on the IRS exemption, again he had nothing to do with shady dirty deeds.
He has been ridiculously accused here and there on the web of doing stuff he knows nothing about, he wasn't there and he was not writing the programs that the Intelligence Division create and conspire to destroy.
However, he did not stop it, and that is some of his biggest regrets.
The very covert, very criminal acts are done with great stealth and even others within the Intelligence division do not know.
"The left hand knoweth not what the right hand is doing" concept.
Charlie Earle of OSA INT Intelligence, runs the PIS.
The PIS are hired by the lawyers so as to give a cutaway from direct SO involvement.
The PIS hire really dirty PIs who will push the envelope.
The PIs report to Charlie Earle.
Charlie Earle writes his Daily report for Linda Hamel, CO OSA INT.
The envelope is sealed and goes directly to David Miscavige.
At most one or 2 more Sea Org members are ccd.
The envelope and write up is destroyed on reading it.
That has been the procedure for years.
I am going to define *Dirty* stuff.
By that I mean killing pets, drowning Judge's dogs, sending anonymous DILDOS in the mail to a workplace, leaving rattlesnakes and dead rats in mail boxes and setting up Mayors with pretty girls, getting them drunk and then creating fake hit and runs for blackmail.
These days there is so much risk of Internet exposure.
If anyone reading this wants to do something meaningful, file an IRS complaint here. It's easy.
http://scientologymoneyproject.com/2014/04/18/time-to-13909-the-church-of-scientology/
!
 

JustSheila

Crusader
I also keep hearing "they haven't told all...they need to tell all" but again no-one seems to know what that "all" is that they haven't told.

So what are these crimes, this "all" that needs to be spilled by Rathbun & Rinder?

Like you, I think that M&M pretty much admitted all the big stuff, as you say and I don't think they're hiding any crimes.

But I'd like to know more details of the IRS deal and closed meetings, more about Lisa McPherson, more about discussions with DM of court cases (if there is any more to tell - there may not be) and just more details in general. Whatever they can remember.

I don't personally think Marty should put himself and his family at risk if telling those things publicly would do so. I don't feel a need to personally know any of it until and if it is made public - when and if it helps cases against the C of S and if Marty & Mike and their families are safe.

I don't know if Veda or any of the others who are still curious feel the same way. I've remembered lots of details later, but not everyone has, and some things I've barely remembered, if at all. Maybe that's all there is, IDK. I hope there's more, though, because there's so much detail missing.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
That sounds like a variation of the "How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?"

Answer: "Only one but it takes a really long time and the light bulb has to want to change." :)


Thank you.

They say the first thing to go is the ...what was it, again?
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

I'm glad you posted this Emma.
I'm glad Pooks posted hers.
Marty was never part of a a dirty cabal of dirty PIs doing criminal acts.
For weeks, months, years of his life he was on legal assignments as the chief Legal officer and
he worked with lawyers morning noon and night.
For 2-3 years he worked on the IRS exemption, again he had nothing to do with shady dirty deeds.
He has been ridiculously accused here and there on the web of doing stuff he knows nothing about, he wasn't there and he was not writing the programs that the Intelligence Division create and conspire to destroy.
However, he did not stop it, and that is some of his biggest regrets.
The very covert, very criminal acts are done with great stealth and even others within the Intelligence division do not know.
"The left hand knoweth not what the right hand is doing" concept.
Charlie Earle of OSA INT Intelligence, runs the PIS.
The PIS are hired by the lawyers so as to give a cutaway from direct SO involvement.
The PIS hire really dirty PIs who will push the envelope.
The PIs report to Charlie Earle.
Charlie Earle writes his Daily report for Linda Hamel, CO OSA INT.
The envelope is sealed and goes directly to David Miscavige.
At most one or 2 more Sea Org members are ccd.
The envelope and write up is destroyed on reading it.
That has been the procedure for years.
I am going to define *Dirty* stuff.
By that I mean killing pets, drowning Judge's dogs, sending anonymous DILDOS in the mail to a workplace, leaving rattlesnakes and dead rats in mail boxes and setting up Mayors with pretty girls, getting them drunk and then creating fake hit and runs for blackmail.
These days there is so much risk of Internet exposure.
If anyone reading this wants to do something meaningful, file an IRS complaint here. It's easy.
http://scientologymoneyproject.com/2014/04/18/time-to-13909-the-church-of-scientology/
!



:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

GREAT POST KAREN!
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yeah..I keep hearing about these "crimes" Rathbun & Rinder "must have committed" but no one ever tells me what they are or offer up any documentation or evidence of these mysterious "crimes".

Being in their respective positions in the CoS would have meant they committed certain "crimes" every day, but as I understand it they make no secret of those & have admitted they acted badly. But thats not enough..there must be more.....

I also keep hearing "they haven't told all...they need to tell all" but again no-one seems to know what that "all" is that they haven't told.

So what are these crimes, this "all" that needs to be spilled by Rathbun & Rinder?

Robin Scott.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you Karen! There was some real meat in that post.

I think a lot of things have been assumed about Marty, only because it was fairly safe to assume due to the position he was in. He was head of the department that Hubs intended to destroy perceived enemies. If the Hub policies were applied standardly, that means those enemies were tricked, sued, lied to, destroyed utterly if possible, evidence manufactured against them (framed) if needed, or anything that was thought to be "greatest good" by those carrying out the dirty deeds. And maybe the "dirty deed" was just paying a sleazy black bag guy to do something horrible to the enemy and cover it up.

A lot of what happened 10 or 20 or 30 years ago will not have any "evidence" to prove one way or another. All we have is witnesses and their statements. And the question of credibility comes into play.

I agree with Sheila also, Marty's actions behind the scenes with law enforcement agencies are not necessarily going to be advertised, for obvious reasons.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I'm really downstat when it comes to typos these days. :melodramatic:

I know I probably went overboard there earlier, but when someone calls Marty a "motherfucker" I figure I can respond in like manner.

All I'll say more on this matter is that Marty understands that he did a lot of bad shit while in his position in the cult. And he understands that he is going through hell now, and will probably continue to go through it until the day he dies.

Some of you need to know more about his background....how he grew up....how he came into the cult himself before you judge him so unforgivingly. He could've chosen to stay in. He could've chose to take the Debbie Cook route....get the money and shut up. He didn't.

Each and every month since he's been out he has grown. He's still growing. Just like everyone else on this board to one extent or another. I have little patience for the hate directed towards him. It's just so lame. Not to mention petty and ridiculous.

I agree. Taking on CO$ legally is not a holiday excursion.

And he has a wife telling him to not dare settling.

When I met him in London he said because of the attention
given to him the rest of the FZ will get less. OK seems he's not
an FZer now.

If I were in a trench physically or metaphorically Marty is
someone I'd want next to me.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
I started out saying I understood and had compassion for him. Then I expressed my schadenfreude over his tears in my loveably obscene manner. Lonestar objected and still refuses to communicate with me directly despite polite efforts on my part to do so. I may be new here as a poster but I am not ignorant of much of what has gone on over the years. I've been to Clambake and xenutv for years. Ditto Lermanet and others. Dude just flamed me cuz he reacted. He refused my attempts at peacemaking. Don't know what else I could have done.

I'm calling in from my vacation in the "Bahamas" to tie up a few loose ends. First of all I found your "attempts at peacemaking" to be lacking. What you could've done is admitted that telling Marty on this forum, a forum in which he does not read, to "suck it Motherfucker" was out of line. You didn't need to retract your opinion of him. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. And no, you are not alone with that opinion here. Far from it.

[STRIKE]Then you falsely accused Marty of being guilty of murder. "Skating on a murder charge" is how I think you phrased it. That's total bullshit. In my opinion it is either libel or slander. That's a pretty fucking serious charge to make about another person. You need to either show evidence that he's a murderer or STFU.[/STRIKE]

EDIT: I just struck the above because I can't now find the post in which I remembered seeing the accusation. You probably deleted it, which is good. But, I will also say that it's possible that I mis-remembered. The fact that you accused him of multiple felonies is still there to see though. It's okay to speculate that he may have been complicit. But to state with certainty is just not cool. You did state with certainty by saying he should be sitting in jail right now. Sorry, I didn't know you were the Judge, Prosecutor, and Jury.



I think Lone Star has put himself on "quiet time" for a while.
Sometimes he bitch slaps me and then kisses and makes up.
I've got bruises all over and smeared lipstick, you can have that too
if you play your cards right. :biggrin:


DB I've always made up with you because I always come to see that I was out of line with you. We had disagreements, but you never actually slandered, or falsely accused anyone like our relative newbie has done. I just got mad at you for being wrong sometimes. LOL... I kid the DB.

So no apology from me to SPsince83 will be forthcoming. No way. If anything he owes an apology, not to me personally, but in general for his slander and unnecessary personal attack on someone that he in essence has no real basis to make.

If you remember I confronted Caroline last week for also falsely accusing Marty, and Mike Rinder, of running a Black PR op in present time.

Leland is someone who still occasionally expresses disdain for Marty and I don't confront him about it. That's because Leland expresses his opinion without the use of slander or making false accusations. He doesn't even personally attack him with name calling. Not that I recall anyway. But he's very clear that he hasn't forgiven Marty yet. I don't agree with him, but I respect his right to feel that way. Same goes for anyone else.

Back to you SPsince83: If you ever come out in the open with your real name and location as Marty has done, then maybe you would have some credibility in making your accusations and suggesting that he "hasn't done enough". You subject yourself to years long OSA attacks and surveillance and disruption of your personal life and family. You put yourself out there and paint a target on your back. Pounding away on a keyboard is not brave. It is not noble. It is not admirable. It's just a message board.

Do I put myself out there in real life? No. But I also don't throw rocks at the real warriors when I myself live in a glass house.
 
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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
So what are these crimes, this "all" that needs to be spilled by Rathbun & Rinder?

Am I crazy to want to know?

DM, Pat Broeker, and possibly other insiders on the Int Exec team promulgated a decades-long coverup by lying about: 1.) LRH's final years, 2.) his health, 3.) his personal non-attainment of Operating Thetan, 4.) of "dropping the body," and of course, 5.) the missing upper OT levels . . . from 1986 going forward. (Just to mention a few things.)

They had a chance to come clean about LRH's final mental and physical state (which matters!) in 1986 and clear the air. They chose not to. Indefensible!

Marty left in the mid-2000's and distanced himself from the conspiracy, IMO.

I guess the question that would need to be nailed down is: "What did you know and when did you know it?"

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt:
maybe Marty found out all about the conspiracy after he left and read about it on the Internet. Perhaps. That's what Mike claims about his own personal knowledge.

I asked Marty once directly on his blog about who exactly where the conspirators who had personal knowledge and hid pertinent facts about LRH's final years and he would not answer up. His silence is telling . . . to me.

I'm curious . . . as the LRH death/upper OT levels "shore stories" have cost people billions in money and many shattered lives and dreams over several decades.

The cabal's silence and made-up shore stories cost me a family and a small fortune. I have skin in the game.

We need to invite Marty over to the ex-board and have him answer some questions, clear the air about some things.
Otherwise, the Marty controversies will follow him until his dying days. Oh, they probably will anyways. :shrug:

But at least I have an excuse to do another funny shoop blending two topics that amuse me: Watergate and Marty. :yes:


View attachment 9812
:wink2:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
So as he changed, he lost most of the Indies. Well, that's how it is sometimes when the only thing you have in common with someone is a shared belief and then stop sharing those beliefs. At that time, Marty could not see past his beliefs to just like people for themselves, even if they didn't agree with him.

He lost some of the more fundamentalist Indies. These are AFAIK
somewhat of a minority in Indie/FZ land. He has though still a large following who read his blog and a probably smaller one who comment there.

Not sure what time you are referring to exactly but Marty was
happy to meet anyone in London and met myself and Ax 142.
We got on pretty friendly terms and furthered his education in
British ale. But we were potentially antagonists, me a squirrel
Ax a critic. This was the time he made the repeat Panorama
program which aired in 2007.
 
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Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
A video of Marty Rathbun is posted and then people give their takes on it :confused2:
just sounds like another day on a message board.

Marty wants the spotlight for whatever reason who knows, we can all speculate
from sinister to altruistic.

Marty Rathbun does'nt post here and has given his reason awhile back
something about ESMB being some sort of entertainment, perhaps someone remembers
the thread, as I recall it was'nt very flattering to ESMB.

Fame is double edged sword, Martys celebrity status as a former high ranking head of D.M.enology
is what gives him his celebrity status same thing for Mike Rinder.

As high ranking whistle blowers on the scam of $cientology we all have our opinions
as to how effective they've been so far......................

to be continued :drama::drama::drama:
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
I'm a never-in, so I have no way of knowing what Marty did or didn't do or know, nor what he should or shouldn't have known or done.

But, I've been the "head-honcho" of 5 assembly lines in a factory and you wouldn't believe how much crap I've had to deal with just because someone higher-up had just bypassed me, or some of my underlings had had a shitty idea they thought was great to implement without notifying me.

Yes, of course I should have known about every single little detail that was going on in one of "my" assembly lines, but fact is: I didn't and I couldn't.

So, a question to all the Marty-critics: What is it that Marty provably knew about but still doesn't say?
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
amazing!
now , there is a switch - to talk/write about people who are not on this board....... lol ...:biggrin:
just few weeks ago it was , not just normal,it was fashion to write against some people tht are not on this board!?!?:coolwink:
So , long story-short : person against - person doing it....or opposite.:duh:
hahhahhahahahh.

now , I will drink LS beer!
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sanctimony does not wear well on ex-Scientologists any better than it does with those still living in the bubble.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Hey, I was trying to be nice to you. I'll give you points for not being passive aggressive this time. Why won't you address the point? Yelling at someone and causing their death are different orders of magnitude. And while I have no specific information about people's activity beyond what the records say, the records lead one to believe he may be indeed guilty of crimes punishable by imprisonment. And in what world does anyone get a pass for these types of crimes without bribery or intimidation?

The fact remains, that his actions were reprehensible. Do you deny that? And if not, why do you disagree that he has waaaaaaaay more to answer for than the folder page at AOLA?

You really need to give specifics with such charges. Your
accusations won't qualify as anything to do with "natural
justice" otherwise.

AFAIK there are not even any accusations that Marty was
involved with Murder. Even supposing CO$ was involved in
such matters I can't see them involving their Inspector General.

Kidnapping probably dosn't fly. He persuaded Annie Broeker
to return. Extortion: Not sure whether his actions with regard to
Minton would count. If someone else remembers this better than
I maybe they can speak up if they don't try to start the
Minton Wars again. You know how that annoys She Who Must
Be Obeyed.

Blackmail: This could have happened re IRS. No evidence has
ever been given. However I believe its past the statute of
limitation now and this may be one of his weapons in Monique's
lawsuits. Would probably implicate DM. This could give a result
everyone wants here, loss of Tax exemption. Marty has been
good at holding his cards close to his chest.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
The pattern of criminal behavior by upper management is well documented. Specific crimes would need to be addressed. I don't know how many ways I can say I will forgive him. If you know what it will take, here it is: Marty in the witness chair with Miscavidge at the defense table.

I'm inclined to think that's what he's saving his powder for.


And if you judge me for not easily forgiving someone who did the things we all KNOW he did, aren't you being judgemental and self-righteous, as I was accused of? Just askin.

AFAIK he spent most of his time overseeing legal cases.
Many years re IRS, the legislation re Mayo went on for a decade
Thats only 2 of them.

You should list out the things he actually did.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I'm new here and didn't realize the Marty love was so strong in some. I just don't see that I said anything untrue. He likely committed crimes that are punishable by imprisonment if convicted.

Again...........He likely committed crimes......


Dis you say you worked with legal matters?
 
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