Need Help Understanding Ex-Sci Friend

Cavalier

Patron
This is going to be a long post...I apologize in advance.

I had known this particular person for about three years before finding out he was ex-sci. As a matter of fact, I blew off the first anon raid because he and my husband and I were getting together that day. When I mentioned that I was supposed to go to a protest but blew it off, I ended up telling him what it was about and he ended up telling me that he is ex-sci.

Which was fine. I've read you guys' horror stories. I understood. Or at least I thought I did. We discussed it, and he was surprised by the amount of information I had. Told me I knew more about Scientology than most Scientologists! It was a very good conversation, at the time.

Since then, he has told me some of the things that he did when he was "in". He says that he has threatened to ruin people's lives and cost them a lot of money, etc. He has shown a total lack of remorse or empathy. He insists he would do the same today. The reasoning behind his actions is that he was disrespected while trying to, basically, extort money from public members. "You insult me while I'm ringing you up for more money so I have the right to destroy you" attitude. It sickens me.

The difference might be that I can say "it's okay" to you guys because I don't know you personally. Or it may be that I am not as forgiving as I thought I was. Or (and this is the way I'm leaning) it's because you guys may have done some things that were wrong, but you admit it and take responsibility for it. He doesn't. Hell. you guys even sometimes take responsibility for things that were done to you! Which is wrong; I wish I could take all the ex-sci kids out for ice cream and a hug (no, I am not a pedobear; I am a mom).

Also, his reasons for leaving are not "I found out it was a con" but "they didn't give me the course I wanted". We were having dinner together one night when he started talking about being billions of years old and a clam, etc. I kid you not. In the middle of dinner at a restaurant...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I won't go into the reactions of people at nearby tables....

I used to think that our conversations may be cathartic for him; during one conversation, he even tried on my Guy Fawkes mask and looked in the mirror while wearing it and asked if he could buy it from me. I said "sure". I even offered to give it to him. Nothing came of it; he went home that night without the mask.

He continues to spew the tech, but now, I usually try to change the subject when we start talking about scientology. We do have things in common, both being tech-heads and gamers. But with me being anon and his being an ex, the conversation usually comes back around. I am hoping he will eventually come around. But he keeps justifying his actions and will not take responsibility for them.

So, I am totally confused as to how to talk to him now. He obviously trusted me enough to tell me the things he did, but the fact that he doesn't seem to see anything wrong with his actions is more than disturbing. I'm seriously thinking of just cutting him out of my life as a "toxic" person. BUT, I don't want to abandon him to the craziness.

Just so you know, he is not newly "out"; he's been out for over 12 years, but is still, obviously, struggling.

So...opinions /suggestions please?
 
Last edited:

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
You just need to decide if you want his "toxic" or "crazy" behavior in your life. I understand you want to help him. But maybe he doesn't want or need help. Maybe he's just fine with the way he is. No remorse is scary in my opinion. There are those that just can't be helped.

Truly look at whether or not he enhances your life in any way. If not, loose him. If so, then deal with him.

A month or so ago I was reading an article in O Magazine about being a friend. There are those that share evenly and those that pretty much only take from you. Since reading that article one of my friends that was (is) a taker, has stopped calling. I'm not being drained helping her on the same issues twice a week anymore. It's sort of a relief. However, a phone call saying she didn't want anything to do with me, would have been nicer and not left me guessing. And I never mentioned the article to her or that I thought she was a "taker". But I definitely realized it was a one-sided relationship.

So, a take a look at this relationship and see how you truly feel about it.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Ditto with ImOut;

This guy is "out" of the Org on a serfac (basically he's been chucking a tantrum for 12 years). I would gradually distance myself from this person until he was no longer part of my life.

If he can't see his scientological criminal behavior, no amount of proof from you will change that.
 

acertainratio

Patron with Honors
It sounds like you are on completely different wavelengths. What do you actually get out of the relationship? I know that 'giving to get' is not the best way to look at relationships, but you maybe need to see if it's a reciprocal or one sided friendship. It sounds to me that his behaviour is not particularly due to Scn, but more to do with basic personality issues, in the area of responsibility. No remorse usually indicates a serious persopnality disorder. Maybe Scn 'made it right' for him to leave his personality issues unaddressed. IMHO, a friendship can only thrive if the parties concerned share common values, and it doesn't sound like you do. Maybe the friendship will fail because of this. Just be honest with him regarding how you see his behaiviour and see what happens. It doesn't sound like much of a friendship to me.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but you asked for advice, and that's my contribution.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Hi,

I agree with everyone else on this thread - if this person still talks like this then he is not someone you would want to associate with I would think.

There are a couple of observations I did want to pass on;

1) There is something weird about his "reason" for no longer being in Scientology - "they didn't give me a course I wanted" does not make any sense. I am not champion for Scientology but this would have been addressed as an ARCX long ago - especially if the person was a reg or an FSM as this person appears to be claiming

2) His talking publicly about "clam" is very strange - most Scientologists will run away rather than talk about this - in all my years "in" I never heard this discussed outside of very few "insider" conversations.

I think your instincts are correct - there is something wrong about this person.

Mick


This is going to be a long post...I apologize in advance.

I had known this particular person for about three years before finding out he was ex-sci. As a matter of fact, I blew off the first anon raid because he and my husband and I were getting together that day. When I mentioned that I was supposed to go to a protest but blew it off, I ended up telling him what it was about and he ended up telling me that he is ex-sci.

Which was fine. I've read you guys' horror stories. I understood. Or at least I thought I did. We discussed it, and he was surprised by the amount of information I had. Told me I knew more about Scientology than most Scientologists! It was a very good conversation, at the time.

Since then, he has told me some of the things that he did when he was "in". He says that he has threatened to ruin people's lives and cost them a lot of money, etc. He has shown a total lack of remorse or empathy. He insists he would do the same today. The reasoning behind his actions is that he was disrespected while trying to, basically, extort money from public members. "You insult me while I'm ringing you up for more money so I have the right to destroy you" attitude. It sickens me.

The difference might be that I can say "it's okay" to you guys because I don't know you personally. Or it may be that I am not as forgiving as I thought I was. Or (and this is the way I'm leaning) it's because you guys may have done some things that were wrong, but you admit it and take responsibility for it. He doesn't. Hell. you guys even sometimes take responsibility for things that were done to you! Which is wrong; I wish I could take all the ex-sci kids out for ice cream and a hug (no, I am not a pedobear; I am a mom).

Also, his reasons for leaving are not "I found out it was a con" but "they didn't give me the course I wanted". We were having dinner together one night when he started talking about being billions of years old and a clam, etc. I kid you not. In the middle of dinner at a restaurant...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I won't go into the reactions of people at nearby tables....

I used to think that our conversations may be cathartic for him; during one conversation, he even tried on my Guy Fawkes mask and looked in the mirror while wearing it and asked if he could buy it from me. I said "sure". I even offered to give it to him. Nothing came of it; he went home that night without the mask.

He continues to spew the tech, but now, I usually try to change the subject when we start talking about scientology. We do have things in common, both being tech-heads and gamers. But with me being anon and his being an ex, the conversation usually comes back around. I am hoping he will eventually come around. But he keeps justifying his actions and will not take responsibility for them.

So, I am totally confused as to how to talk to him now. He obviously trusted me enough to tell me the things he did, but the fact that he doesn't seem to see anything wrong with his actions is more than disturbing. I'm seriously thinking of just cutting him out of my life as a "toxic" person. BUT, I don't want to abandon him to the craziness.

Just so you know, he is not newly "out"; he's been out for over 12 years, but is still, obviously, struggling.

So...opinions /suggestions please?
 

Pixie

Crusader
This is going to be a long post...I apologize in advance.

I had known this particular person for about three years before finding out he was ex-sci. As a matter of fact, I blew off the first anon raid because he and my husband and I were getting together that day. When I mentioned that I was supposed to go to a protest but blew it off, I ended up telling him what it was about and he ended up telling me that he is ex-sci.

Which was fine. I've read you guys' horror stories. I understood. Or at least I thought I did. We discussed it, and he was surprised by the amount of information I had. Told me I knew more about Scientology than most Scientologists! It was a very good conversation, at the time.

Since then, he has told me some of the things that he did when he was "in". He says that he has threatened to ruin people's lives and cost them a lot of money, etc. He has shown a total lack of remorse or empathy. He insists he would do the same today. The reasoning behind his actions is that he was disrespected while trying to, basically, extort money from public members. "You insult me while I'm ringing you up for more money so I have the right to destroy you" attitude. It sickens me.

The difference might be that I can say "it's okay" to you guys because I don't know you personally. Or it may be that I am not as forgiving as I thought I was. Or (and this is the way I'm leaning) it's because you guys may have done some things that were wrong, but you admit it and take responsibility for it. He doesn't. Hell. you guys even sometimes take responsibility for things that were done to you! Which is wrong; I wish I could take all the ex-sci kids out for ice cream and a hug (no, I am not a pedobear; I am a mom).

Also, his reasons for leaving are not "I found out it was a con" but "they didn't give me the course I wanted". We were having dinner together one night when he started talking about being billions of years old and a clam, etc. I kid you not. In the middle of dinner at a restaurant...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I won't go into the reactions of people at nearby tables....

I used to think that our conversations may be cathartic for him; during one conversation, he even tried on my Guy Fawkes mask and looked in the mirror while wearing it and asked if he could buy it from me. I said "sure". I even offered to give it to him. Nothing came of it; he went home that night without the mask.

He continues to spew the tech, but now, I usually try to change the subject when we start talking about scientology. We do have things in common, both being tech-heads and gamers. But with me being anon and his being an ex, the conversation usually comes back around. I am hoping he will eventually come around. But he keeps justifying his actions and will not take responsibility for them.

So, I am totally confused as to how to talk to him now. He obviously trusted me enough to tell me the things he did, but the fact that he doesn't seem to see anything wrong with his actions is more than disturbing. I'm seriously thinking of just cutting him out of my life as a "toxic" person. BUT, I don't want to abandon him to the craziness.

Just so you know, he is not newly "out"; he's been out for over 12 years, but is still, obviously, struggling.

So...opinions /suggestions please?

Hi Cavalier!! Well to me, you sound like the sweetest darling, and I feel strongly that anyone who had you as a friend is a very very lucky person indeed. :yes:

The feeling I get from this, and I've read it twice, is that you have so far been more than patient with him. The thing about scilons is that even in the real world, there are good people, and there are bad people, and there are good AND bad people, so considering that he's been out twelve years, that's a long time to recover, there is no reason for him to be acting like this at all.

The fact that he shows no remorse just says it all in my books. Very few people as you said yourself, who post on this board, and if any in fact, feel proud of some of the things they did, or the ways that they treated people while in, so this for me, is an unusual story.

Most people that get into scientology in the first place, get in because they want to help, the genuinely want to help their fellow man as well as the state of the planet, so in their core, they are good people, some however, and I have known them while in, are in it for the power, the uniform even, the 'status'. Now admittedly, I feel sure these types are few and far between, and they can and do affect the rest of the group, however, if someone is like that after twelve years out, they were most likely to have been like that before they got into the cult in the first place.

Scientology does make one crazy, it does distort the mind, and it can also make you insane to a degree, but as with any cult, it cannot touch the human core, the real person, the true spirit of that person, humans are made of stronger stuff, but what scientology does not do, is turn you into a selfish self centered brat.

Indeed and of course it can if one is on staff, or in the SO with all the over work and overwhelm little decent food and no sleep etc etc, but not when you've been out that long, no, eventually we all come back to ourselves. Don't allow this person to drain your energy. You are exceedingly kind to have put up with what you have put up with so far, but don't let him use the cult as an excuse.

Sure we all rant and rave about 'what was done to us', but beneath that and I'm sure you can tell from most posts, we take responsibility for it and we have learned from our mistakes. If anything, I have found ex scientologists to be the most sensitive and most compassionate people I know. I do hope this has helped you somewhat, don't hesitate to keep us posted and let us know how things are going. You are very welcome to this board.

Warmest Regards to you Cavalier.. :yes: :hug:
 

Zander

Patron with Honors
Cavalier,

Not all ex-sci's are the same, but this guy sounds totally unlike any other. Weird.

I agree with what others have said and I say dump him. Don't worry about "abandoning" him - he doesn't need you and you have to think of yourself in this situation.

Zander
 

Good twin

Floater
Cavalier,

Not all ex-sci's are the same, but this guy sounds totally unlike any other. Weird.

I agree with what others have said and I say dump him. Don't worry about "abandoning" him - he doesn't need you and you have to think of yourself in this situation.

Zander

It's funny. I used to sometimes be surprised when I was unable to maintain a friendship with a fellow Scientologist. I'd just chalk it up to "just because he's a Scientologist doesn't mean that we are destined to be friends." I guess now I don't have to be friends just because we are both exes. I can't honestly say I haven't met an ex I don't like. Some are creeps, just like any other group.:yes:
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sometimes you have to be dispassionate.

What comes first? Your partner and family, or your association with this person.

Almost invairably every person who quits Scn has some "baggage". Some simply cave in, some simply get on with building their lives, some use their experiences as a weapon to control others. Despite being out, they are still "in" as they are continuing to dramatize whatever identity they got into while in the cult.

If it helps, take a piece of paper and on one side write down all the person's plus points.

Beside it, write down all their negative points.

See which list is the longer and make your decision accordingly.
 

Pixie

Crusader
Sometimes you have to be dispassionate.

What comes first? Your partner and family, or your association with this person.

Almost invairably every person who quits Scn has some "baggage". Some simply cave in, some simply get on with building their lives, some use their experiences as a weapon to control others. Despite being out, they are still "in" as they are continuing to dramatize whatever identity they got into while in the cult.

If it helps, take a piece of paper and on one side write down all the person's plus points.

Beside it, write down all their negative points.

See which list is the longer and make your decision accordingly.

:clap: Very practical and down to earth advice Dart.. good one.. :yes:
 
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