New and Looking for advice/help

dipshin

Patron
The bold part above leaps out at me. I think you might be right. Allowing their Scientologist kid to get into a relationship with a non-Scn is not something I think a "true believer" would do, for the precise reason that a non-Scn boyfriend/girlfriend might pull the kid away from Scn, and be a source of "unwelcome" news about the realities of Scientology, particularly in the Internet age.

It might be that the parents are (to some degree) "on the fence". It might be that the parents are financially dependent upon the first-generation true-believer grand-parents. It might be that this recruitment attempt may be an attempt at "hostage taking", to ensure the parents stay "in". I don't know, I'm throwing out guesses.

In the meanwhile, it's good that your kid is immunized. Keep your kid reading about the stories of others. Watching Leah's series would be good, if kid has not already done so.

Yes, these are some of the same guesses I have.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is a great idea...if only there was a way to implement it.

Not going to happen.

As a Sea Org member I could never tell my friends or relatives what it was really like. Even amongst Scientology friends and relatives you don't talk. Sea Org members are very couched even when talking to each other, even their Sea Org spouses and children. For both Sea Org spouses to break through and start talking about wanting to leave is a huge thing. This is why long time Scientology public and families are so clueless. The OT levels are on Wikileaks. Your child's friend can read for free what their grandparents spent hundreds of thousands or millions on and are forbidden to discuss it. Yet one of the big sales pitches to join the SO is getting your Bridge "for free". But the Church is so miserly with it's Tech services for staff that very few ever go very far. It's called "Personnel Enhancement" but it's a euphemism for what they want to put in your head - not what you want. It's kind of a damning self commentary that if this stuff was so great then why dole it out so sparingly? It should make stats boom to have staff go OT. But the reality is that it is a detraction from work and a diversion of resources from revenue generating services to the paying public. So many staff leave that it is considered a waste until they have been there for 10 years to prove themselves. People used to pay off their Freeloader Debts but I have to think that they rarely do anymore, especially considering how much staff are invoiced for all these courses that are mandatory and not even on their personal wish list.

SO crew work 80 hour weeks routinely. 2 and 3 day shifts without sleep were not uncommon for me. 6 days was my record. I used to think that was a significant feat but I've read quite a few stories like that since, so meh. You are in such a constant state of burnout it's impossible to be what the Church calls "sessionable" or well fed and rested to where you get the maximum benefit from auditing. Even if it was all it's cut out to be you need three months of total decompression to even get close. So you look at the benefits of all that high priced auditing on your Freeloader bill and realize what a waste it was.

But even after routing out, an ex-Sea Org member doesn't dare express this with their family if they want to preserve their good standing so they can get services as a public Scientologist.

Jason Beghe really broke the mold when he did this interview. People should be able to express themselves like this but Scientologists are so constipated they can't be real with each other, let alone anyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
That is very enlightening and scary!
According to the service completions database on truthaboutscientology.com , 3 out of the 4 grandparents have attested to clear and all 4 are otviii, and one of the parents is clear and has not taken courses for about 8 years. The other parent last took courses about 13 years ago.

Again, I'm probably giving too much away....but a very close family member of ours is very high up in the psychiatric medical field. My child's partner knows this and I know that would be a huge PTS for their family.

Have a closer look at the grandparents. What years did they 'attest to OTVIII' ? What is their current involvement? How much have these 'whales' contributed and when? I can't think of any whales except perhaps Leah Remini and Jason Beghe who not only beached but sailed in the sea of their choice and not in the Sea of Ogres of scientology. The history of OTVIII's is not particularly great and it is a wild guess on my part that more than 25% maybe even up to 50% of OTVIII's have left the Cult. Perhaps these grandparents are ready to join Leah and Jason and others? Well a glimmer of hope, but I wouldn't base any big action on that glimmer of hope, I would suggest you and your child get as close to the answers in this area and maybe the glimmer may fade suddenly away.

The more I see of this, the more I think that it's the grandparents who may be behind the recruitment attempt, with the parents being ambivalent but unwilling to cross the grandparents. At least not yet.

I honestly doubt the grandparents are behind this, as just look at the parents reduced activity. Sure maybe the Sea Org recruiters have targeted and safepointed the grandparent whales, to 'secure the area of their operation' but not necessarily gotten their push just and okay to carry on. There are many possibilities on this but I will leave those for now.
I love how you say a least not yet.. this is another glimmer. And there are tidal wave after tidal wave crashing at the sea org ship and probably what could be considered another Tsunami on the 29th of May and then more to come from Leah and A&E, to say nothing of all the other harpoons aiding in bringing down even the whales. It is not the 'same as it always was' at least in the real world and the scientology world is at greater and greater peril regardless of their frantic activities.

To add to that this is all Scientology does...24/7/365 and it most likely has been doing this longer than you've been alive.

You're as headstrong as Leah Remini. Lol

Same goes for Scientology's attorneys. That's all they do. It's what they eat, breath and sleep. They are not general practitioners doing divorces and estates and titles and bankruptcies. Lol

You're entire stance appears naive and reckless to me...like you are playing an espionage game or something.

Very not well thought out, IMHO.

And that is an honest opinion.

Opinion well taken. But I think dipshin has shown some remarkable true love and care in getting a good education; sure not so much from experience of having been a scientologist but I can see a lot of strength there. What would happen if Dipshin contacted Mike Rinder and Leah Remini for advice? Leah after all has stated and to paraphrase that she wants to prevent people from getting abused and as a plus Leah came out with her whole family which is a very added strength.

But your statement about this being some kind of game, and the wager if tantamount. Perhaps my naivety, needs another awakening and I sure wouldn't want it to be a cause of dipshin losing a child. I don't know if I myself could handle that pain associated with that and it is why I hesitated many times to even make this post.
Your insight and opinion on matters has earned a lot of respect from me, but ....well I am posting this right.. :nervous:

The relatives who are OT VIII may not be very active on the Bridge anymore and may not be likely to be in a situation where they are routinely sec-checked but they may still have a lot to lose if they get into Ethics trouble, ie. lower conditions and amends assignments, friends, other relatives, business associates and they can potentially lose any certifications requiring that courses or auditing be redone which will all invariably be much more expensive than when they did it ages ago. Plus they probably have a lot invested literally and emotionally in IAS donations and commendations.
Snipped....
... the real nature of the problem present itself.

As the many comments on this thread have illustrated....yes..the nature of the problem has been very difficult to address..but the times they are a changing....has there been enough change? Well to answer that then although a lot is know by dipshin, perhaps even more needs to be known in greater detail somewhat along the lines of what I mentioned earlier in this post and whatever questions arise in dipshin and child's minds as the problem is studied for it complete and true nature.

I pretty much agree with you on everything...I don't think it's a game and based on the info I have which is much more than I can reveal, this family will most likely walk away and simply ignore us and move on with their cult and life. If by chance (and I believe it's a slim one because they have never, ever, tried to recruit my child for over a year now) then yes the gloves will come off. I cannot do nothing... it doesn't mean I would go out of my way to instigate, but I will use every resource available to me. And thanks to people like you and the internet and the tv shows, there is more awareness of the damage the cult can do.
I do not take this lightly and if I thought there was no hope of helping this child, then I would just bank on the relationship ending after high school and move merrily along. But I see that this kid and the family are making an effort to assimilate into the real world more than the average scientologist family. It would be tragic to think that the positive experiences this child has with the wog world didn't provide some sort of perspective on the cult and a chance to be free of it.

:thumbsup:

The dream: May the giant come tumbling down and love and compassion win. The reality: I certainly wouldn't take my advice as a final answer, only you can coalesce it all and make your consecutive choices.
The future: I wish you and your child the very best outcome.
 

dipshin

Patron
Not going to happen.

As a Sea Org member I could never tell my friends or relatives what it was really like. Even amongst Scientology friends and relatives you don't talk. Sea Org members are very couched even when talking to each other, even their Sea Org spouses and children. For both Sea Org spouses to break through and start talking about wanting to leave is a huge thing. This is why long time Scientology public and families are so clueless. The OT levels are on Wikileaks. Your child's friend can read for free what their grandparents spent hundreds of thousands or millions on and are forbidden to discuss it. Yet one of the big sales pitches to join the SO is getting your Bridge "for free". But the Church is so miserly with it's Tech services for staff that very few ever go very far. It's called "Personnel Enhancement" but it's a euphemism for what they want to put in your head - not what you want. It's kind of a damning self commentary that if this stuff was so great then why dole it out so sparingly? It should make stats boom to have staff go OT. But the reality is that it is a detraction from work and a diversion of resources from revenue generating services to the paying public. So many staff leave that it is considered a waste until they have been there for 10 years to prove themselves. People used to pay off their Freeloader Debts but I have to think that they rarely do anymore, especially considering how much staff are invoiced for all these courses that are mandatory and not even on their personal wish list.

SO crew work 80 hour weeks routinely. 2 and 3 day shifts without sleep were not uncommon for me. 6 days was my record. I used to think that was a significant feat but I've read quite a few stories like that since, so meh. You are in such a constant state of burnout it's impossible to be what the Church calls "sessionable" or well fed and rested to where you get the maximum benefit from auditing. Even if it was all it's cut out to be you need three months of total decompression to even get close. So you look at the benefits of all that high priced auditing on your Freeloader bill and realize what a waste it was.

But even after routing out, an ex-Sea Org member doesn't dare express this with their family if they want to preserve their good standing so they can get services as a public Scientologist.

Jason Beghe really broke the mold when he did this interview. People should be able to express themselves like this but Scientologists are so constipated they can't be real with each other, let alone anyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok

This is very sad...unimaginable to the victims and families until it happens to them.

I wish that a video disguised as an SO recruiting video could be swapped with one that shows interviews of ex SO members and given to every teen scn member.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is very sad...unimaginable to the victims and families until it happens to them.

I wish that a video disguised as an SO recruiting video could be swapped with one that shows interviews of ex SO members and given to every teen scn member.

Just that video has over 555,000 views. Progress is being made and some day this will all be relegated to a section in some social studies or psychology curriculum.

Sorry you're having to deal with it.
 

dipshin

Patron
To add to that this is all Scientology does...24/7/365 and it most likely has been doing this longer than you've been alive.

You're as headstrong as Leah Remini. Lol

Same goes for Scientology's attorneys. That's all they do. It's what they eat, breath and sleep. They are not general practitioners doing divorces and estates and titles and bankruptcies. Lol

You're entire stance appears naive and reckless to me...like you are playing an espionage game or something.

Very not well thought out, IMHO.

And that is an honest opinion.

You're response is essentially "Don't take this the wrong way, but you're a stupid idiot who knows nothing."

The irony here is that you are behaving like a Scientologist, who needs to school a stupid wog.

just because I'm not a Scino or an ex Scino doesn't mean I'm ignorant or haven't experienced dysfunction, or abuse. I don't need to and shouldn't have to wave scars around to you to prove to you that I understand how severe this can be.

So, here's my opinion: you're ill informed assumptions, are naive. You're choice of wording is quite undiplomatic and reckless towards someone who is seeking help.

If your idea is turn people away, remove any hope for help, and patronize them with LOL's than you're doing a great job.

You could have have gotten your point across much more differently...but what do I know? I'm just another stupid wog!

For all the other posters out there who have been so helpful, I thank you immensely. I'm sure glad your positive responses, encouragement, along with your experiences are the majority.
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
Sorry to bring a lead balloon to your party, but you may need to be aware of something.

From what you have told us, you have narrowed down the field of potential suspects that the OSA need to identify you and your child.

Scientologists may be a pretty stupid bunch, but they do know how to work a few things out.

From here they will be able to identify who they need to handle before they lose their prospects.

You should be expecting to hear something out of left field anytime soon.....
 

EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
Although you'd never expect I'd later stop talking to this person, he was pretty much my best friend while I was a Scientologist. I knew him for a good 15 years while I was in, and even more years while I was out too (that's a whole other very interesting story). He wasn't a third gen or anything, but his mother and step father were very high profile OT8s and very active in the church; mission holders, major donors to the IAS, and all of that and still are. He'd been into it himself since he was very little and even grew up going to Delphi in Oregon. We were on staff together for a couple of years when he was just finished with high school.

When the time came and I was going through the realization that I'd been in a cult for the last 20 years, I very gently began to tell him what I was discovering. It was about a six month process, but he saw the light and left about a year later. He himself was an OT5. He was still young (he was always much younger than I) and had to break it to his mother eventually, which didn't go over well, but we made sure he'd reconnected with other non-cult family members before he denounced Scientology, which really helped. Now he has a relationship with his real father who was deemed an "SP" when he was little.

I never thought in a million years I'd be able to aid in getting him out, and maybe I didn't. Maybe he'd already been thinking about it. I don't take any credit there because I've been on both sides of the wall and I wouldn't think in a million years I would ever leave either! However, all this changed my mind about dismissing trying to help.

Never say never.

The sheer fact that more and more people are leaving, helps a LOT. And younger people are less stuck in their ways than older people. Also, this new generation continues to surprise me, as I tend to be old-skool. A 17 year-old today is too accepting of other people's views to accept all this DM BS and isn't as rigid as the generation before (not that they were necessarily "rigid," but you know what I mean). And their vision of the future is not some dystopian ideal with Miscavage running the Earth. I can't see them following along without question. This new generation is going to be a problem for the church. Mainly because of the Internet.

But I stand by protecting your child FIRST with as much information as humanly possible. AND, for him to be a safe person for her to come to when and if she wants to leave or wants to air complaints -- without judgments. It's really important for him not to speak critically about Scientology to her or else he can lose the whole idea of helping her out of there for good.

Just my .02.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sorry to bring a lead balloon to your party, but you may need to be aware of something.

From what you have told us, you have narrowed down the field of potential suspects that the OSA need to identify you and your child.

Scientologists may be a pretty stupid bunch, but they do know how to work a few things out.

From here they will be able to identify who they need to handle before they lose their prospects.

You should be expecting to hear something out of left field anytime soon.....

I'm inclined to agree. OSA could contact recruitment offices to find out what prospects are in the pipeline that fit this description.

I'm also a firm believer in the law of unintended consequences and if it is triggered here I think in the end Dipshin and family will come out ahead. The Scientology family is keeping secrets. They are the ones who can't communicate like real people. They can't express what a long term relationship between these children would look like from their perspective. If they disconnect it is their loss.
 

dipshin

Patron
Sorry to bring a lead balloon to your party, but you may need to be aware of something.

From what you have told us, you have narrowed down the field of potential suspects that the OSA need to identify you and your child.

Scientologists may be a pretty stupid bunch, but they do know how to work a few things out.

From here they will be able to identify who they need to handle before they lose their prospects.

You should be expecting to hear something out of left field anytime soon.....

Yes, I'm thinking the same thing. And from everything I've learned and experienced, Scientologists and exes are by far some of the most, insightful, smart, people with the best of intentions. If anything, like TheOrignalBigBlue said, "How fortunate it is to get to see where a partner's loyalties begin and end so early in a relationship."
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, I'm thinking the same thing. And from everything I've learned and experienced, Scientologists and exes are by far some of the most, insightful, smart, people with the best of intentions. If anything, like TheOrignalBigBlue said, "How fortunate it is to get to see where a partner's loyalties begin and end so early in a relationship."

Anyone who can make sense of LRH's writings and lectures is way too smart for their own good. Time to dumb it back a bit.

With Islam, we expect people to be radicalized because it is full immersion from birth. It is difficult to understand the relationship between intelligence and Scientology. Is their some kind of personality trait or genetic predisposition to this kind of thing? Does it have to do with maturity or a transitional period in a person's life? A lot of discussion has been given to this but one thing is clear, Scientologists should not be underestimated on the basis of intelligence. Having said that, their particular brand of intelligence rarely plays out according to plan. Too clever by half, it is fascinating to see how LRH's most overthought programs consistently backfire and fail.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Yes, I'm thinking the same thing. And from everything I've learned and experienced, Scientologists and exes are by far some of the most, insightful, smart, people with the best of intentions. If anything, like TheOrignalBigBlue said, "How fortunate it is to get to see where a partner's loyalties begin and end so early in a relationship."

For some of them , their best intention is to handle, attack, anybody who is ennemy\antago to $cientology. They are on a mission to clear the planet and the end justifies means. It's very difficult to tell who will remain decent and who won't, after years of involvement. I'd say that unfortunately, those outcomes (a loyal spouse) are not seen that often (when people are deeply invovled) :unsure:

Just take a look at

1) KSW (keeping $cientology working)
2) Suppressive doctrine and fair game policies

And you will see that $cientologists , in the cult, are under pressure to do whatever has to be done to ''protect their group (3rd dynamic) and $cientology'' : And they are even prepared to give up their beloved one (polygraph interrogations) and to disconnect from their kids and family.

Never forget that any $cientologist is a potential OSA weapon...actually they often use the nicests more decent $cientologists to handle their ''target'' , especially those on Higher OT levels:wink2:

Nobody can be smarter than these guys, (OSA and their flock) they are professional fuckers...you are facing lunacy and brain washed people, the wise thing to do is to avoid them, and watch over you own kid.
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Yes, I'm thinking the same thing. And from everything I've learned and experienced, Scientologists and exes are by far some of the most, insightful, smart, people with the best of intentions. If anything, like TheOrignalBigBlue said, "How fortunate it is to get to see where a partner's loyalties begin and end so early in a relationship."


Fairly early in my relationship with my then-future wife (after I had left staff and became public), I got into a conflict with various high-ranking Sea Org people. She stood by me totally. When, 30 years or so later, I decided that I had enough, she stood beside me on that decision as well. It's good to have a person with whom you can have total certainty of where they stand. It reduces a lot of stress.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Anyone who can make sense of LRH's writings and lectures is way too smart for their own good. Time to dumb it back a bit.

With Islam, we expect people to be radicalized because it is full immersion from birth. It is difficult to understand the relationship between intelligence and Scientology. Is their some kind of personality trait or genetic predisposition to this kind of thing? Does it have to do with maturity or a transitional period in a person's life? A lot of discussion has been given to this but one thing is clear, Scientologists should not be underestimated on the basis of intelligence. Having said that, their particular brand of intelligence rarely plays out according to plan. Too clever by half, it is fascinating to see how LRH's most overthought programs consistently backfire and fail.

Scientology necessarily selects for people of above-average ability. As a public, you need to be able to make enough money to buy services, or they have no interest in you. As staff, you need to be able enough to earn a living somehow, on the side, when most of your time is spent working in the Org for no pay.

You can be very smart, and also easy to con. Scientology selects for people want something badly enough that they will go with somebody who promises to deliver it.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dipshin,

This chilling eval and program for the PAC Cadet Org provides a rare window into the mind of LRH and Scientologists.

In 1981 LRH was still alive and actively running programs through Miscavige. The Watchdog Committee had been recently established as the most senior management entity. Note the intricacy of "logic" applied to this problem and then compare to how things ended up. Children are banned and women are coerced to get abortions. If they don't comply then they are offloaded and husbands coerced to divorce and disconnect. It is a classic example of Scientology induced intelligence.

https://www.scribd.com/document/225084800/Scn-CadetOrg-CEO-Eval-Scientology-Aides-Order-203-71
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
You can be very smart, and also easy to con. Scientology selects for people want something badly enough that they will go with somebody who promises to deliver it.

I do thing the same.

It's the primary motive that I called (few times on the board)
The spiritual cupidity (people want the total fredom, knowledge and power that is sold to them )
Some remain in $cientology ONLY for selfish motives..they only go up the bridge as public

Second comes the dedication to save this planet :biggrin:
(those guys are soon recruited on staff and in the SO)

(most of people here)

Note that all the vulturs post to extort money from $cientologists are often hold by public
whom their only selfish motive is to cash money ..

Thus, aside we have the morons..who know how to make tons of money in manipulating people in $cientology
(our beloved div4 registrars , some ethics officers, IAS fundraisers, some vulture FSM's, and Osa goons, as some can make quite good money working on some ''attack this ennemy'' missions)

I've never seen any reg vulture showing signs of redemption, although many OSA wake up and leave...especially the good people who refuse to keep going on with harming people)
 
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dipshin

Patron
Dipshin,

This chilling eval and program for the PAC Cadet Org provides a rare window into the mind of LRH and Scientologists.

In 1981 LRH was still alive and actively running programs through Miscavige. The Watchdog Committee had been recently established as the most senior management entity. Note the intricacy of "logic" applied to this problem and then compare to how things ended up. Children are banned and women are coerced to get abortions. If they don't comply then they are offloaded and husbands coerced to divorce and disconnect. It is a classic example of Scientology induced intelligence.

https://www.scribd.com/document/225084800/Scn-CadetOrg-CEO-Eval-Scientology-Aides-Order-203-71

WOW!
So, is this when they started the Cadet Org? Was it like a prep feeder school for the SO?
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
WOW!
So, is this when they started the Cadet Org? Was it like a prep feeder school for the SO?

No, not the beginning. By this time I think LRH, the CMO and senior management were starting to cognite that they would never put enough resources into integrating children to the point where it wouldn't be a constant PR and Legal disaster. This was the beginning of the end.

OK, here is the appropriate thread but there are others that specifically cover the PAC child care situation. The situation at Flag was just as bad.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-ORG-ESTABLISHMENT-EVAL-How-kids-were-treated

Some more links:

http://warrior.xenu.ca/1997-0707.html

Re: $cientology "school"
[07 Jul 1997]
Sea Org members had no time -- or money -- to look after their children.
_____
http://warrior.xenu.ca/1997-0525.html
Re: Scientology lied to me over and over for years 
[25 May 1997]
How I found, upon reporting to the Sea Org after an arduous journey, that
I had been lied to about the Sea Org's facilities for child care.
_____
http://warrior.xenu.ca/1997-0417.html
Sea Org hours, "pay", children's conditions and other degradation...
[17 Apr 1997]
During my years in the SO, I worked a minimum of 96 hours per week.
Often I worked as much as 108 hours in a week. And my pay actually
averaged about 10 cents per hour, since when I joined the SO, base
pay per Flag Order 3075 of 18 November 1971 was $10 per week.
_____
http://warrior.xenu.ca/1997-0415b.html
Re: SO children
[15 Apr 1997]
My own child was in pre-school at the Cadet Org. The preparation for first grade was non-existent 
with the constant turnover of untrained and unqualified personnel (who were mostly cast-offs
that the other orgs didn't want on staff as they were "DBs" - degraded beings). 
My kid ended up failing the first grade.
_____
http://warrior.xenu.ca/1997-0415a.html
Re: Sea Org Children again
[15 Apr 1997]
In my Sea Org days, such heavy demand (and often threat) was made for staff
to get their stats up that many staff did not go on their "family time" and
visit their children.
_____
http://warrior.xenu.ca/1997-0410.html
PAC CADET ORG / CADET ESTATES ORG ESTABLISHMENT EVAL
[10 Apr 1997]
For an organization whose Founder ElRon said that the "children are our future", I never 
saw the management demonstrate that it truly cared.
_____
http://warrior.xenu.ca/1996-1224.html
Cover-up of illegalities in Cadet Org
[24 Dec 1996]
WHY is it that a group that SUPPOSEDLY CARES so much about the future of
this planet, and which states that the children ARE our future, could this
same group tolerate such sub-human conditions for their children?
_____

http://warrior.xenu.ca/1996-1219.html

Neglect of children in Sea Org
[19 Dec 1996]
An excerpt from Aides Order 203-71, "PAC CADET ORG/CADET ESTATES ORG ESTABLISHMENT EVAL"
_____

http://warrior.xenu.ca/1996-1218.html

Children in Sea Org
[18 Dec 1996]
An excerpt from Flag Order 1630 entitled "GOVERNESS" dated 3 December 1968.
_____

http://warrior.xenu.ca/1996-0917b.html

PAC CADET ORG / CADET ESTATES ORG ESTABLISHMENT EVAL [17 Sep 1996]
"DUE TO LACK OF IMPORTANCE GIVEN TO CHILDREN ... THE CADET ORG AND CEO HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THE HANDS OF UNQUALIFIED AND (IN SOME CASES) CRIMINAL CHILDREN AND ADULTS..."
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
It was probably a little unfair of me to say that Scientologists are pretty stupid.

Most are not, really. To me what seems to happen that once they have taken the bait and the hook, the common sense and critical thinking part of their intelligence is put outside the door out of the way and the door is then closed. After that, the indoctrination process locks that door and they become immune to outside information and/or interference.

Until one day things start to bug them and they wander over to that door and open it just a crack. After that, it gets rather difficult to close it again. That's when their intelligence begins to start working again and the door is left wide open for good.

They can still be very smart otherwise, it's just the indoctrination running interference.

What I said earlier was not intended to scare you. I thought you just needed to be aware of it.

Despite all the scare stories about the way they operate, they have been losing some of their teeth over recent years and are not quite the successful terrorists they once were. That said, I wouldn't be taking them too lightly either. They are zealots and they can be quite unpleasant.

I wish you well with your task. I hope you can get to your child before they do. :thumbsup:
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Dipshin,

This chilling eval and program for the PAC Cadet Org provides a rare window into the mind of LRH and Scientologists.

In 1981 LRH was still alive and actively running programs through Miscavige. The Watchdog Committee had been recently established as the most senior management entity. Note the intricacy of "logic" applied to this problem and then compare to how things ended up. Children are banned and women are coerced to get abortions. If they don't comply then they are offloaded and husbands coerced to divorce and disconnect. It is a classic example of Scientology induced intelligence.

https://www.scribd.com/document/225084800/Scn-CadetOrg-CEO-Eval-Scientology-Aides-Order-203-71

As an addendum to that, here's an affidavit from Mary Tabayoyon

http://www.clearing.org/cgi/archive.cgi?/homer/cd14.memo

And the Flag Order prohibiting "new children" in the Sea Org

http://www.carolineletkeman.org/c/archives/7567

The result of the above Flag Order was that female SO members would be heavily pressured to have abortions if they were "out ethics" enough to become pregnant.
 
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