New Article Coming from Village Voice re CST Vaults?

freethinker

Sponsor
From what I have read online, Dave hasn't had a session since the very early 90's. So if he were a true tech believer, then he would get auditing to handle his problems right?

The evidence is that Dave sees Scientology as a means to rake in large amounts of cash and to have power. I believe he only talks Ron and tech and policy to keep the followers under his spell to keep donating for a future that will never come from Scientology.

If he believed in the tech, he would have actually rehabilitated those in the SP hole and elswhere and got them back on their post. He would not have altered the tech with the GAT debacle.

Is he looney? Oh, yes he is, but he is also a clever sociopath and I think that is why CST keeps him because he has such control over Scientologists in the main.
In other words, I think he is loony tunes.

Mimsey
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Does Larry Brennan say he controls CST? I wouldn't doubt Larry either but don't recall Larry saying much as regards CST specifically.


The vaults probably do contain the thousand million I have heard about and the interest is probably made by the re-reging of the public.:yes:
Maybe on paper, but in reality all the people concerned kiss DM's butt. So says Larry Brennan and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

As far as I can tell, the vaults and archives are for the stated money-black-hole purpose, crazy as it is and especially so since the vault locations have been all over the internet for years. Imagine how freaked out they must have been when AGP showed up. :biggrin:

Paul

P.S. Yet another great article from Tony Ortega.
 
As far as I can tell, the vaults and archives are for the stated money-black-hole purpose, crazy as it is and especially so since the vault locations have been all over the internet for years.
You nailed my point on the head - based on DM's actions, he is a true believer. If he believed other wise, it wouldn't be necessary to go to those lengths. Personally, I think he has a Tiger by the tail since he doesn't have Hubbard's smarts, and can't dream up or fix super power, or OT 9 and 10.

So all he can do is re-package what he has and hope Ron shows up some day soon. He is too insecure of his position to allow Mayo or some of the other tech gods to research Ron's folders and notes to polish them off. Oh, Davie, what is a tyrant to do?

Mimsey
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Does Larry Brennan say he controls CST? I wouldn't doubt Larry either but don't recall Larry saying much as regards CST specifically.

I believe Larry Brennan has said that Miscavige is in control of CST and other entities through the same method Hubbard used to control things without appearing to be in control -- holding undated letters of resignation for all CST officials.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Just emailed Larry with a link to this thread asking him to shed light on this.
I believe Larry Brennan has said that Miscavige is in control of CST and other entities through the same method Hubbard used to control things without appearing to be in control -- holding undated letters of resignation for all CST officials.
 
Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Ron did return - or if Mohammad or Jesus did. Would Jesus be born of a virgin? If so, then he would be a male clone? Would the Christians or the Muslims accept their return? Or would they lock them away?

How would they vet them, to verify their existence was for real? I guess it would be easy with Ron, with snappy tales of Target Two, what he said to MSH when she met him at the top of the bridge, or where he parked his space ship, if he didn't pick up an earth body... sorry - I couldn't resist.

While for him it would be an easy feat to recall details from his life that could be verified, what about Jesus? His male clone DNA? What about Mohammad? How would you know they were for real?

Of course we knew what happened to the Buddah....

Mimsey
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
An alternate explanation for how Miscavige controls the CST can be found in the first 35 seconds of this clip: :)
[video=youtube;rOzXsqoJhtE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOzXsqoJhtE[/video]
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Things I learned from this article:

Because the only reason you spend that much on a secret project is if you actually believe in the purported reason for doing it. And that argues that DM believes in LRH, the tech and the future of humanity.

I don't buy it.

Here are two possible reasons for spending so much on the vaults that, I feel, better fits the real intent of the CoS under DM.

1. The vaults are simply cover for the actual facilities around them which are meant to be. . .something. Secure prisons for people like Shelly? Self sufficient safehouses for DM in the event of his super-paranoid view of the world comes to pass? The "protecting LRH's words" is just the shore story.

2. The whole project is a giant insurance policy of sorts for DM. When he is accused of misspending the church's money and benefiting from everyone's largess, he can turn to the vaults and say "see, we spent the money just like we said we would. Millions were coming in and millions were going out, if I was that bad, why wouldn't I spend this money on other stuff - you didn't even know I was spending it on this!"

Am I stretching too far to find the underlying conspiracy? Is it simply possible that the insane story about LRH coming back and needing his words protected so he can save post-apocalyptic humanity is actually believed by DM and this project proves it?

I mean, millions have been spent on the Super Power Building and it's totally BS, too.

In the end, I keep getting tripped up by the secrecy. If it is a sincere project, why keep it secret?

I be so confused.

Would it make more sense if they were engraving LRH's bullshit on gold? The titanium plate stuff is a good cover for buying and storing huge amounts of gold. I'm sure most of the SO members involved believe "LRH's writings" are the valuable items they are protecting, I'm sure there is plenty of that there, but I think all the vault, secrecy and other bullshit is due to them sacking away gold. (Don't get me wrong, LRH did want to "smash his name' into the history books and since he didn't exactly achieve that I'm sure he would be fine with a nuclear holocaust happening and some poor survivors 400 years later finding his dreck and taking it seriously and believe he was an almighty important man.)

Do you think paranoid LRH actually had policies telling the SO to put his big bucks in banks when he was gone? Or in any form that the government could touch or get a cut of? Hell this was the guy that sent SO members on a mission to go to a swiss bank to physically go look, count, and weigh his money.

Those VAULTS are being built to hold precious metals - holding people or his writings are incidental or a by-product. Even funnier that they say they have to build a house for LRH to come back to and be raised in.

I seriously can totally imagine that policy, written for when he dropped the body. You will build houses for me to be raised in, and most importantly all MY GOLD, safe, secure, accounted for better be right fucking there under the house too!!

Do you think all the money LRH socked away when he was alive just went back into the CoS?? The amounts they talk about delivering to LRH back then are astounding. LRH took money from the CoS, he didn't give it. We know Mary Sue didn't get anything much from his estate, nor his children. I think its because LRH's instructions (screw that you can't take it with you crap) he just is having CoS safely hold it in vaults for him till he comes to get it again.

It does point to the fact that Davey still lives in fear of LRH's wrath, or even his ghost. That he would dutifully carry out this project, along with the house at Int, means he does/did believe LRH was coming back.

Funny, I wonder if his faith is shaken a bit more every year when LRH doesn't appear. (He died in 1986 - so he would be 26 years old in his 'new body" - well past the age he should have turned back up at.) I did hear there was lots of rumors and anticipation at Int around 2004 or thereabouts, like they really thought "this was the year" LRH would show up again. I'd love to hear more about that and how strong the belief was among the SO or what rumors abound about his suppose return and if they still believe its going to occur. (LRH sure has been hanging out at Target 2 for awhile at this rate...)
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Maybe on paper, but in reality all the people concerned kiss DM's butt. So says Larry Brennan and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

As far as I can tell, the vaults and archives are for the stated money-black-hole purpose, crazy as it is and especially so since the vault locations have been all over the internet for years. Imagine how freaked out they must have been when AGP showed up. :biggrin:

Paul

P.S. Yet another great article from Tony Ortega.

A friend who used to sit in and take notes at Watchdog Committee
verified Larry's viewpoint.
 

Veda

Sponsor
14_Newspaperman.jpg


Man, that's a good photo! Black and white doesn't get used enough.

Note the early-edition DMSMH on the desk (with the $1.00 price sticker on the spine) and the "Messiah or Madman" on the stack. And the bottles!

Paul

It appears to be a 1950 first edition of 'Dianetics', which would have the Introduction by Dr. J. A. Winter. A year later, Winter would write in his 1951 book, 'A Doctor's Report on Dianetics':

"There was a difference between the ideals inherent in the Dianetic hypothesis and the actions of the Foundation in its ostensible efforts to carry out these ideals. The ideals, as I saw them, included non-authoritarianism and a flexibility of approach. The ideals... continued to be given lip-service, but I could see a definite disparity between ideals and actualities."

And, in 1959, Hubbard, thinking of Dr. Winter, would write in his 'HCO Manual of Justice':

"Dianetics and Scientology are self-protecting sciences. If one attacks them one attacks all the know-how of the mind. It caves in the bank. It's gruesome sometimes.

"At this instance there are men hiding in terror on Earth because they found out what they were attacking. There are men dead because they attacked us - for instance Dr. Joe Winter [wrote Introduction to 'DMSMH', and the book, 'A Doctor's Report on Dianetics' with an Introduction by Fritz Perls]. He simply realized what he did and died. There are men bankrupt because they attacked us - [Don] Purcell, Ridgeway, [publisher of 'DMSMH'] Ceppos."


And it appears to be the hard bound third edition of 'Messiah or Madman?' which would have this in its book flap material:

"I have high hopes of smashing my name
into history so violently that it will take a
legendary form even if all the books are
destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as
I am concerned. Things which stand too
consistently in my way make me nervous.
It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years
Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which
gives some idea of the magnitude of my
attempt. And all this boils and froths inside
my head...
"Psychiatrists, reaching the high of the
dusty desk, tell us that Alexander, Genghis
Khan and Napoleon were madmen. I know
they're maligning some very intelligent
gentlemen."

L. Ron Hubbard wrote these words in a letter to
his first wife in 1938.

In 1950 he wrote the bestseller 'Dianetics, the
Modern Science of Mental Health. This inspired a
layman oriented mental health movement which,
ultimately, developed into Scientology, the most
profitable of the money-making new religions.

Hubbard's early Dianetic and Scientology writings
borrow freely from Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, and
the founder of General Semantics, Alfred Korzybski.

And P.T. Barnum appears to have been an inspiration.

Hubbard also took much from the writings of Aleister
Crowley - self-proclaimed "Beast 666." This is a source
of embarrassment for the Scientology Church, which
is determined to achieve broad public acceptance.

In the 1960s Hubbard incorporated Brainwashing
methodologies into the subject. He established the
"Fair Game Policy" which states that an "enemy" of
Scientology "may be deprived of property or injured
by any means by any Scientologist, without
discipline of that Scientologist. May be tricked,
sued, lied to or destroyed."

He also became the Commodore of his own private
navy, and began to refer to himself as "Source."

L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? exposes
as never before the dark side of Scientology, yet
contains an in-depth examination of the potential
positives of the subject and their actual origins.

As for the bottles, I can't quite make out the brands, although I do recall that Scientology once attempted to "dead agent" Tony Ortega by claiming that he was an "alcoholic," so they may have been strategically placed in the photo, just to play with Scientology's collective Hubbard-cult-mind.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
As for the bottles, I can't quite make out the brands, although I do recall that Scientology once attempted to "dead agent" Tony Ortega by claiming that he was an "alcoholic," so they may have been strategically placed in the photo, just to play with Scientology's collective Hubbard-cult-mind. :)

The photographer obviously included them deliberately as props. The one on the desk looks like it hasn't even been opened.

Paul
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
My two cents: Scn is in full-blown "dramatization" of an apocalyptic cult. DM believes the end of the world is nigh and the story about "safeguarding the tech" is a cover for building an underground nuclear-proof bunker that some of the "elite" can run to when it all falls apart. While there is evidence that they are actually replicating the tech onto plates, etc., I think building the nuclear-safe bunker is the primary goal.

As far as LRH returning in a new body, I think that it was believed by either Travoltas or the Cruises that one of their babies might be LRH returned. I seem to recall there was a wierd story about Nicole Kidman or Katie Holmes being the receptacle for the baby. I'll see if I can dig up that wierd story and post it. Anyone else remember it? It might have been "National Enquirer" crap.

But who knows? Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Someone who actually knows something here can correct me but from what I understand from what I have read online is that DM has no control over CST but they have control over him by owning the key symbols and trademarks that would prevent all others from being used if the licensing were revoked.

So, my belief is that DM does not believe in the tech but someone or group at CST does or they are having these facilities built for some undisclosed reason.

If I am correct, DM does not control CST.

yes he does. always has.

Larry Brennan analysed the paper trail and, despite Veritas and the others and their wholesale inventions, DM actually controls it. I was well aware of that fact in the early 80's as anyone would be who talked with Dan P and who knows Miscavige and the money.

Cyan wondered if MIscavige is a True Believer and I think that answer is pretty complicated,

I think that he is - I think he is a manipulative and controlling asswipe but I think he does believe it. But he does not understand it - and that is the key , possibly.

He does not understand Scientology and he does not understand people at all - so he just uses Hubbard dreck blindly and forcefully. He KNOWS it - he just doesn't understand it.

Have you ever wondered if Marty and Mike really do believe all the drivel? Or Debbie? Do they really think that Marcabs exist and that Xenu is chained p, and that Hubbard visited heaven and all the rest of the complete tripe that person came up with? If they do - how could they possibly have any credibility in the real world - and if they don;t why do they pretend to follow it?
 

Sindy

Crusader
yes he does. always has.

Larry Brennan analysed the paper trail and, despite Veritas and the others and their wholesale inventions, DM actually controls it. I was well aware of that fact in the early 80's as anyone would be who talked with Dan P and who knows Miscavige and the money.

Cyan wondered if MIscavige is a True Believer and I think that answer is pretty complicated,

I think that he is - I think he is a manipulative and controlling asswipe but I think he does believe it. But he does not understand it - and that is the key , possibly.

He does not understand Scientology and he does not understand people at all - so he just uses Hubbard dreck blindly and forcefully. He KNOWS it - he just doesn't understand it.

Have you ever wondered if Marty and Mike really do believe all the drivel? Or Debbie? Do they really think that Marcabs exist and that Xenu is chained p, and that Hubbard visited heaven and all the rest of the complete tripe that person came up with? If they do - how could they possibly have any credibility in the real world - and if they don;t why do they pretend to follow it?

There is no tenable position that they can hold other than to denounce it all. That doesn't seem forthcoming.
 
yes he does. always has.

Larry Brennan analysed the paper trail and, despite Veritas and the others and their wholesale inventions, DM actually controls it. I was well aware of that fact in the early 80's as anyone would be who talked with Dan P and who knows Miscavige and the money.

Cyan wondered if MIscavige is a True Believer and I think that answer is pretty complicated,

I think that he is - I think he is a manipulative and controlling asswipe but I think he does believe it. But he does not understand it - and that is the key , possibly.

He does not understand Scientology and he does not understand people at all - so he just uses Hubbard dreck blindly and forcefully. He KNOWS it - he just doesn't understand it.

Have you ever wondered if Marty and Mike really do believe all the drivel? Or Debbie? Do they really think that Marcabs exist and that Xenu is chained p, and that Hubbard visited heaven and all the rest of the complete tripe that person came up with? If they do - how could they possibly have any credibility in the real world - and if they don;t why do they pretend to follow it?

Very appropriate distinctions, Mick.


Mark A. Baker
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Have you ever wondered if Marty and Mike really do believe all the drivel?

Remember one of the early "fishing" videos with lots of wind on the sound-track (no dead cats) where Marty and Mike are talking, and Marty is enthusiastically talking about whole-track implants and Mike is quietly WTFing but not overtly contradicting him?

Paul
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Ron did return - or if Mohammad or Jesus did. Would Jesus be born of a virgin? If so, then he would be a male clone? Would the Christians or the Muslims accept their return?

The Gospels attribute statements to Jesus about returning 'on clouds of glory' and 'like the flashing of lightning from east to west', with the point in context being that his return would be quite unmistakeable. So very few Christians would accept anyone as their Christ returned, if there were room for any doubt on the matter at all.

Mohammed is not supposed to return. He's in heaven, he has no reason to come back, and I don't believe he is supposed to play any special role on Judgement Day. There is, however, a strong though not universally accepted Muslim tradition that a descendant of the Prophet, who will happen to share his name Mohammed, will arise as a sort of Muslim messiah a few years before the end of the world.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: CST Vaults?

What a blast from the past !
It's been ages since AGP raided the Twin Peak facility.
I wonder if the author knows about the other 2 vaults ??

May, 2010
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ts-raided-by-AO-and-AGP!&highlight=vault+tech

One of my favourite posts is on that thread. Please forgive the indulgence:

DoYouWantToComeAndPlayWithUs.jpg


Either way he's a silly-looking Bolstad here. Reminds me of a meerkat. :)

View attachment 2640

Paul
 

maliauctor

Patron
Have you ever wondered if Marty and Mike really do believe all the drivel? Or Debbie? Do they really think that Marcabs exist and that Xenu is chained p, and that Hubbard visited heaven and all the rest of the complete tripe that person came up with? If they do - how could they possibly have any credibility in the real world - and if they don;t why do they pretend to follow it?

one could argue that their "following" might be a good stepping stone for someone who has so much invested in scientology that they're not quite ready to throw the subject and ron under the bus yet, but they are fed up with church management.

its like getting them out of scientology "on a gradient"

first off, they dont like miscavige and the church itself, the distance themselves from the church

then, after awhile at this new distance, they might be able to look at other things, maybe even look at ron's death certificate, etc and realize it's all junk

whether or not they actually believe the stuff, i think it's fair to say they're providing a useful service in that respect.

so i would hope that they're conciously providing this "stepping stone" and don't believe it. but either way, it helps
 
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