New *ELITE* CLUB ~~exclusive to 100 members only. DONKEYS of the *Church*

I have forgiven Narconon officials who have directly and indirectly affected my life. Why carry around all the hate until they finally fess up to what is already known? This is cult think: get all the overts and withholds before someone else tells you its okay to move up the conditions. It seems like that is what is expected. I disagree. If some individual thinks they have been personally harmed by these two then shoot them an email and find out. They will probably respond. I got one and have never met or spoken with them.

You are correct, my packaging was not good. "We" should be replaced with "I." Forgive or not at your own choosing. The point I was trying to relate is that its easier to work as a team than as a bunch of individuals.

I have absolutely no argument about how you relate to people and I assume that it's a really good thing for you that you changed your outlook and how you perceive those people. However I also think that it is a lot easier to do this when all the stuff that should be known is actually known -and preferably documented with evidence (you talk about stuff that is 'already known'). Wanting to 'find the overts' is not necessarily cult think, IMO unless the word 'overts' is used. If you see it that way I wouldn't argue because that's a matter of your own association of ideas. But knowing the facts is part of justice, part of redress, part of being able to process the experiences IMO. It is not always necessary to know it all, and it may be possible to move on with knowing very little, but I think that too is an individual matter. There are other things apart from dealing with one's own personal emotions too....such as having knowledge that will protect you in the future, and having knowledge to help others who are still being abused.
I don't know what M&M know or don't know but I think their past positions in the cult means that they have very very important information about the abuses of the cult. I don't know if they can or cannot tell what they know, or what the affects would be if they did. I also don't know if it can all just be dropped now and all the abused, and the courts are denied that information. And I don't see how ex scientologists should live in a bubble where announcements about forgiveness, moving on, are apparently adequate to deal with these things. What happens in other (non scio/exscio) situations of crime and abuse? Justice is decided in the courts - although I have to admit of course that it is not always just.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
JimLynch.jpg

Jim Lynch, on the payroll of David Miscavige shows up at my gate 3x ringing the doorbells asking for an interview.
JimLynchcard.jpg


Jim Lynch has done 3 harrassment tours to my home!
He flees like a cockroach before LAPD could arrive.

DONKEY #2
Jim Lynch is a David Miscavige propaganda hired gun for "FREEDOM MAGAZINE"
JimLynchcard.jpg


These pictures were taken outside my home a few months ago ~~


JimLynch001.jpg

JimLynch007.jpg

Jim Lynch - a sleezy, used car salesman that will do anything for a buck! He is just plain slippery! CHEESEBALL!!
 

Veda

Sponsor
Why carry around all the hate until they finally fess up to what is already known? This is cult think: get all the overts and withholds before someone else tells you its okay to move up the conditions. It seems like that is what is expected.

-snip-

There's much that's not "already known."

Mike Rinder was deeply involved with the OSA for decades, and for more than a decade as the head of OSA. Marty Rathbun is the one who walked, sans appointment, into the office of the USA IRS Commissioner, with David Miscavige. The "IRS handing" saved Scientology, and gave it a virtually invincible umbrella of protection.

Jesse Prince appears to have been correct when he wrote, almost 15 years ago, that Scientology hides its crimes - the really serious stuff, not Miscavige slapping people - by first involving Scientologists "in criminal acts for which they are then liable, which then prevents them from speaking out."

Characterizing as "cult think," or "hate," the expectation that the individual who was David Miscvaige's right hand man, and the individual who, for over a decade, ran Scientology's spying&dirty tricks activities, tell what they know about those shady activities, and put it out there as a matter of public record, is using loaded-language to shut down valid inquiry.

Tony Ortega is awaiting this information also, and has been disappointed that it has not been forthcoming. Is he a "hater" and someone engaged in "cult think"?

Again, I do applaud the truth telling that has occurred form both Mike and Marty, and thank them, but let's be real: There does appear to be a quiet understanding between Miscvaige, Rinder, and Rathbun, not to talk about certain things. What's the point of pretending otherwise?

Now, as for the current enablers of Miscavige, I see nothing wrong with spotting those currently doing Miscvaige's dirty work, although the op of this thread is as protective of Hubbard - who created the madness in the first place - as Mike and Marty are protective of those dark, shadowy, areas they, and Miscavige, share an interest in keeping in the shadows.

The op of this thread has also done good, and deserves to be acknowledged and thanked for it.

At the same time, let's not suspend, or abandon, our critical faculties, and independent judgement, just to "get along" and be part of the crowd.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I want to put in a vote for the fake doctor that drugged Scott Campbell on the Freewinds - if she is still working for them.

Edit: Donkey is really too kind of a term for that behaviour - behaviour that kills people and ruins lives.
 
Birdie, let's play a game of logic.

1) The C of S says that "the accusers are the abusers", that Rathbun and others had a history of violence, NOT Mr. Miscavige, right? So far so good.

2) Devocht and Rinder say they never saw any signs of violence on their husbands' bodies -- not one scratch, bruise, black-eye, nothing. Right?

3) Wouldn't there be scratches, bruises, cuts, etc. if Rathbun and others were being violent -- if the accusers were being abusers?

4) They can't have it both ways.

You notice Devocht stumbles quite a bit and then resorts to calling Cooper rude when he asks her to confront the fact that on one hand they say Rathbun was violent and on the other hand, no one called the police, ever.

Watch it again and see if you think they came off well. Maybe you'll still feel the same way. That's fair. I don't think that they did.

i think they look pretty good but you can see the coach's fingerprints:

"now make clear you were their wives. you know know every inch of their bodies. surely if they were bruised you would have seen it and you never saw any bruises right?"
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
i think they look pretty good but you can see the coach's fingerprints:

"now make clear you were their wives. you know know every inch of their bodies. surely if they were bruised you would have seen it and you never saw any bruises right?"

Probably depends on if they allow conjugal visits in the hole or how many sec checks you're going to get for indulging in non-essential sexual behaviour. I think the only inches of anyone's body those ladies got to see were above the collar and cuff, same as anyone else, except for the one that had an affair with Miscavige of course.

And even if they saw a gazillion bruises it's like they're going to tell Anderson Cooper about it... yeah, right! :p
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
To correct the record ...

In Sindy's post #47 above, it looks like TG1 said something she did NOT say.

Birdsong actually is the one who said that which is attributed to me.

Birdsong, you really need to learn how to use accurately the quote function here at ESMB so that YOUR own comments in future posts that people quote don't get attributed to other people whom you've just quoted.

Harumph!

TG1
 
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LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
For a while now i felt the same way. I called them every name in the book and looked at them as pieces of shit. My view changed when i realized this is old cult think. Yes, they did fucked up shit. Who didnt overtly or covertly mess with peoples lives? All of us i believe. Their present actions are what i look at now. Both have my support and respect for having survived and spoken up about what they saw. We dont need to know everything and should not hold that over their heads for forgiveness.

The fact is they are out in the open almost every day doing what needs to be done to bring about more understanding about what goes on in the cult. 99% of us cant say that. Should we not respect people until they come out with their real names and put themselves in the cross hairs daily? Nah. Let's forgive, move on and work as a team to expose and change this shit heap. The division and in-fighting is what they want.

I respect your right to Free Speech and by extension your opinion.

However, when I was on staff I only helped people and did not conduct clandestine ops against them.

Just as the Allies rightly demanded unconditional surrender from the Japanese and the Germans at the end of WWII, that is what I demand of the Church and its operatives and ex operatives such as Mike and Marty. They are duplicitous with Miscavige and the rest until they make full disclosure of their remorseless acts.

It's not a matter of forgiveness, it's a matter of ongoing criminal activity by their former cohorts being given tacit consent by Mike and Marty.

In case you have forgotten the modus operandi of the Church, here's a reminder. Rest assured Miscavige has not changed the operating basis:

http://www.sptimes.com/News/080401/TampaBay/Doctor_in_Lisa_McPher.shtml

By THOMAS C. TOBIN and ALISA ULFERTS

© St. Petersburg Times,
published August 4, 2001

"TALLAHASSEE -- Florida's Board of Medicine has sternly sanctioned Clearwater physician David I. Minkoff, finding he improperly prescribed medicine for a patient he had never seen -- Scientologist Lisa McPherson.

Minkoff, also a Scientologist, prescribed Valium and the muscle relaxant chloral hydrate at the behest of unlicensed Church of Scientology staffers who were trying to nurse McPherson, 36, through a severe mental breakdown.

When they failed after 17 days of isolating her, Minkoff was recruited again. This time, he pronounced McPherson dead.

For his role in the 1995 episode that Minkoff himself calls a "fiasco," the 53-year-old doctor will lose his medical license for one year and then be made to practice under probation for two more years -- unless he appeals and wins a reversal.

He also was fined $10,000.

The board's action Friday is the first official consequence for anyone connected with McPherson's death, which resulted in a two-year criminal investigation, made headlines around the world, claimed the career of the local medical examiner and plunged the church into a tumultuous period that sapped its resources and hurt membership.

The investigation brought two unprecedented felony charges, not against individuals but against a corporation: Scientology's main entity in Clearwater. One of them, the charge of practicing medicine without a license, was related to Minkoff's actions. The other was neglect of a disabled adult.

Both were dropped last year after Pinellas prosecutors reluctantly concluded their case had been wrecked by Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Joan Wood, who changed her conclusions about the cause of McPherson's death and later retired under pressure."

...more at link

So the doctor was the only scientologist who received any punishment at all. How is it the Medical Examiner changed her testimony? What happened to all the documents the Church kept on Lisa?

Marty knows and so does the Church. Donkeys that must go down. :angry:
 

Sindy

Crusader
To correct the record ...

In Sindy's post #37 above, it looks like TG1 said something she did NOT say.

Birdsong actually is the one who said that which is attributed to me.

Birdsong, you really need to learn how to use accurately the quote function here at ESMB so that YOUR own comments in future posts that people quote don't get attributed to other people whom you've just quoted.

Harumph!

TG1

I am confused as post #37 is Idle Morgue's posting, not mine. :confused2:

I see now. It's post #47 and yes, it looks like you said something when in actual fact it was Birdsong (which I knew anyway but it is confusing).
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
Probably depends on if they allow conjugal visits in the hole or how many sec checks you're going to get for indulging in non-essential sexual behaviour. I think the only inches of anyone's body those ladies got to see were above the collar and cuff, same as anyone else, except for the one that had an affair with Miscavige of course.

And even if they saw a gazillion bruises it's like they're going to tell Anderson Cooper about it... yeah, right! :p
the CO$ would NEVER use the "sacred" insitution of marriage to their own advatage. Just ask Mike Rinder, who had his divorce delayed for years because CO$ like the information advantage. Bastards.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Probably depends on if they allow conjugal visits in the hole or how many sec checks you're going to get for indulging in non-essential sexual behaviour. I think the only inches of anyone's body those ladies got to see were above the collar and cuff, same as anyone else, except for the one that had an affair with Miscavige of course.

And even if they saw a gazillion bruises it's like they're going to tell Anderson Cooper about it... yeah, right! :p

Ah yes, The Inch Wives! When all that bs was happening a couple of Anons did a bit of sleuthing and determined that intimate contacts were few and far between, due to the fact that for much of the time everyone was posted in different places/parts of the country. The fact that the cult would drag these women out to poo-poo tales of abuse on national tv, looking like the liars and apologists they were, is just another in a long list of foot-shootings that the CoS has become famous for.
:hysterical:


Happy Staturday!

:cheers:
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sindy ~~

I thought your suggestion of Monique Yingling, personal lawyer to David Miscavige for some 25 years, firewalling him against his daily criminal conduct was a good suggestion.

However, she is OUT now. Meaning she is not working for him or the "Church" for reasons best known to her.

After some thought, I am going to stay with CURRENT donkeys and not those that wake up and leave the "Church." Also, I am only nominating LIVE donkeys and not those who have passed (died) like Monique's husband Gerald Feffer. I would surely have called him out as a Donkey if he was still alive.... but no point naming him posthumously.


PS. If any Donkey flees the Church I will de-Donkey or un-Donkey them, even befriend them with apologies.
I am aware that I was a Donkey once upon a time !
 
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