New here, and needing help.

[xmaineiac]

How long did it take you to do that?

A little less than a year. I just decided to move on. No one tried especially hard to stop me. No one has contacted me since. Nothing weird happened the whole time.

In realize this is perhaps an unusual scn story, but that's what happened.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

A little less than a year. I just decided to move on. No one tried especially hard to stop me. No one has contacted me since. Nothing weird happened the whole time.

In realize this is perhaps an unusual scn story, but that's what happened.

You were in Scientology fror less than one whole year??
And you think auditing is the shit. How much auditing did you get in that one year?

 

[krsniite]

I can understand how it is persuasive. That's why I don't think I'll actually go to any... unless he wants proof. He has told me several times it would mean a lot to him if I went to the church with him one day.

I am afraid of actually going. I know that if he could get into it, then someone like me could too. Except that I've read these stories. I can understand the system enough right now... but who knows when I actually face it?

I'm not sure what I want to do in this case yet.

 

[xmaineiac]

Please, tell me, if I expressed interest in learning more about Scientology, would he drop the barrier and speak to me about it? Since Scientology is so focused in being spread to more people?

He probably would, unless he really does personally want to be finished with you. But the "plan" will be to get you to physically visit the organization, at which time you will receive the sales pitch from hell. You should avoid that part, unless you are exceptionally strong-willed.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

At this point, I think it's okay to lead him on. As far I know, he led me on. In a relationship where I trusted him to be the person he made me believe he was. He told me things about how he could never break up with me and that he wanted me there for every change in his life, which is something a bit crazy to say at age 20, but nonetheless. He told me several times when he was doing the study course that he was not going to get involved with the religious aspect of Scientology. He led me to believe that he was not as involved as he turned out to be, and then led me to believe that my honesty with him in the topic would not cause us to separate.

So in this case, I believe that ME leading him on is better than Scientology doing it.

I live about a half hour subway ride from him. Again, I am determined, because I am young and I have not had enough experience yet to learn to let go the easy way. Even though I've heard it so much.

Please, tell me, if I expressed interest in learning more about Scientology, would he drop the barrier and speak to me about it? Since Scientology is so focused in being spread to more people?

Let me get this straight.
You want to lie to him and say you're interested in Scientology. Then you want to have a sit down with him and discuss Scientology to steer him away from it.
As soon as he finds out you lied, he'll get up and walk away. :confused2: He's already done it to you.
I'd say to just show up and ask him to lunch. Without anyone else there. Be straight with him. But I'd bet he's already a victim.
He'll gloss over everything you say. If he's not willing to read anything from exmembers, why would he listen to you about Scientology?

 

[xmaineiac]

You were in Scientology fror less than one whole year??
And you think auditing is the shit. How much auditing did you get in that one year?

I never said it was the shit. I said it didn't make me psychotic, or anyone else I ever knew or knew of.

At the end of the day, it's just two people in a room, talking. A waste of time at worst.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

I can understand how it is persuasive. That's why I don't think I'll actually go to any... unless he wants proof. He has told me several times it would mean a lot to him if I went to the church with him one day.

I am afraid of actually going. I know that if he could get into it, then someone like me could too. Except that I've read these stories. I can understand the system enough right now... but who knows when I actually face it?

I'm not sure what I want to do in this case yet.

Ok this verifies it. He is all in with Scientology. There is nothing you can show him to change his mind at this point. He's already trying to recruit you. :confused2:

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

I never said it was the shit. I said it didn't make me psychotic, or anyone else I ever knew or knew of.

At the end of the day, it's just two people in a room, talking. A waste of time at worst.

It's more than obvious you favor auditing. No more quirming.
So if it's a waste of time, would it not be a waste of money?
You didn't answer my other question. How much auditing have you had in that one year in Scientology and what auditing was it?

 

[xmaineiac]

Let me get this straight.
You want to lie to him and say you're interested in Scientology.

Why does it have to be a lie? Why not BE interested? You needn't be extremely interested, but surely you already have some level of interest in this thing that has taken him away from you.

You should be capable of doing a bit of investigation without getting sucked in, right?

 

[Kha Khan]

Or would mentioning learning more about Scientology make him interested?

Mentioning that you are interested in learning more about Scientology, or indicating in anyway that you are open to getting involved in Scientology, would definitely make him interested.

Nonetheless, I would strongly urge you not to do so. Please believe that your well-being is not only my primary concern, but my only concern.

The truth, and the bad news, is that your ex-boyfriend is not the same person you knew. I mean that literally. Think Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Since he has reached the point where he is disconnecting from you, he has been indoctrinated. He is following "PTS/SP tech" (i.e., the Church's Potential Trouble Source - Suppressive Person rules). Under the "PTS" tech his only options are to "handle" you or to disconnect. Handling means he must make you favorable to Scientology, or better, convert you. Otherwise, he must disconnect.

Please understand that he has been taught that it is a sin to be "reasonable" or open-minded in implementing these rules. He will not and cannot listen. He will not and cannot reciprocate. He will not and cannot truly communicate dialogue. He will not and cannot compromise.

He will and can have only one unrelenting purpose, and that is to convert you.

If you express an interest in learning more about Scientology, and given the fact that you are a sincere person and will not want to lie to someone you love, there are only two possible outcomes. The first, and best possible, outcome is that in the end the situation is unchanged, and you will have invested time, effort, love, concentration, and emotion in an futile effort.

The second, and worst possible, outcome is that you will be sucked into Scientology. That is my primary concern. I've seen it happen. He accuses you of not being fair, of not being open-minded. (While at the same time absolutely refusing to listen to any of your concerns or criticisms, or reading or otherwise considering any critical or contrary information.) He might say that if you really loved him, you would at least give Scientology a fair shot. He might accuse you of not trusting his judgment, of now respecting his religious and spiritual choice.

And you, wanting to be a fair, open-minded person, and express you love and respect, take a course... and go to an event... and take some auditing.... And as long as you do, and only as long as you do, you will get positive feedback from him and others. And then pressure. And years later you will return to this board and post your story in the "My story from inside Scientology" forum.

The other truth, and the good news, is that "he" -- the man you knew (the use of the past tense is intentional) -- is still in there somewhere. He can come out, and the overwhelming majority do eventually. The question is how long you want to wait and how much effort you want to put into your relationship.

I'm not saying not to communicate with him, or to give up on him completely, or to cut him off.

What I am saying is that you have to be strong. Perhaps stronger than you have ever had to be in your life. You have to maintain your boundaries. You have to maintain your own integrity. You have to focus on what you believe in and know.

And you cannot compromise -- because he never will. He can't. Again, it is a sin in Scientology to be reasonable, to be open minded, to engage in "other practices."

He can be either in or out. There is no middle ground.

As a result, you can be either in or out. There is no middle ground.

Please take care of yourself first. Only if you take care of yourself will you be able to help him eventually.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Why does it have to be a lie? Why not BE interested? You needn't be extremely interested, but surely you already have some level of interest in this thing that has taken him away from you.

You should be capable of doing a bit of investigation without getting sucked in, right?

HELLO MCFly!!!
She want's him to get away from Scientology and be with her. He wont if he is in Scientology.
You're never going to convince anyone you're interested then try to immediately talk them out of what you just said you were interested in.

 

[xmaineiac]

It's more than obvious you favor auditing. No more quirming.
So if it's a waste of time, would it not be a waste of money?
You didn't answer my other question. How much auditing have you had in that one year in Scientology and what auditing was it?

You are acting like you know me. You don't know what I think of auditing. I'll tell you: I found it fairly pleasant, nothing earth-shattering, felt pretty good afterward (but then again felt pretty good before-hand). It was basic life-repair stuff, I suppose about three intensives total (not all at the org). I attested to Release. I suspect there was nothing much wrong with me to begin with.

The best processes, I found, were the basic objectives. I doubt if even you antis can fault with going for a walk and looking at stuff

I prefer (some of) the written material. I read Problems of Work last night (as I was having a problem at work and thought what the hell), and although the writing style is so antiquated, there is nothing remotely controversial, and I was in fact able to apply a couple of the concepts, and they did actually help.

Oddly enough, that's what brought me to this board (much to my regret)...it's been months since I gave scn more than a passing thought (I'm not really a very dedicated troll!)...

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

You are acting like you know me. You don't know what I think of auditing. I'll tell you: I found it fairly pleasant, nothing earth-shattering, felt pretty good afterward (but then again felt pretty good before-hand). It was basic life-repair stuff, I suppose about three intensives total (not all at the org). I attested to Release. I suspect there was nothing much wrong with me to begin with.

The best processes, I found, were the basic objectives. I doubt if even you antis can fault with going for a walk and looking at stuff

I prefer (some of) the written material. I read Problems of Work last night (as I was having a problem at work and thought what the hell), and although the writing style is so antiquated, there is nothing remotely controversial, and I was in fact able to apply a couple of the concepts, and they did actually help.

Oddly enough, that's what brought me to this board (much to my regret)...it's been months since I gave scn more than a passing thought (I'm not really a very dedicated troll!)...

I don't need to know you to know you think well of auditing. I've read some of your other posts on this board already.
Sounds to me like you're a Scientologist. Which I could care less about, but spare us the semantics and say you are a Scientologist. Stop pussy footing.
The objectives is nothing like taking a walk, seriously.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Crap, I just typed something long and lost it. Serves me right I guess. It was pretty negative.
Jenny, the truth is you should expect the worst. He's being indoctrinated and already believes the crap they're feeeding him.
I'm sorry but that's the truth. Usually when a person takes the Scientology bait, it's hook, line and sinker.

I pray he wakes up.

Sorry.

But it's true.

Been there.

Done that.

Bought the t-shirt.

 

[xmaineiac]

I don't need to know you to know you think well of auditing. I've read some of your other posts on this board already.
Sounds to me like you're a Scientologist. Which I could care less about, but spare us the semantics and say you are a Scientologist. Stop pussy footing.
The objectives is nothing like taking a walk, seriously.

Wow, there are some really paranoid individuals here, aren't there?

Truth is, I'm really only visiting from Xenu, headed back tomorrow...

 

[gomorrhan]

Let's return to the subject: how to help this lady let go of her man, or recover him.

I believe that establishing communication is the only way to get through to this guy. However, this is exactly what the Church is coaching him to control and deflect. From his communication to her, it seems he has "gone into agreement with" the idea that she is an anti-scientologist (he may not yet have fully decided this means she's a suppressive person, but then again...). Thus, I don't think he will take any questions from her about the subject as anything other than attacks, and will perceive any other forms of communication from her with that filter in place. I think it's a lost cause, unless real communication can be reestablished. No manipulative efforts will work, because they will simply reinforce the guy's perception that she's a threat to his progress in Scientology.

I think it's best to simply write the guy off: that's what he wants, right now. Acknowledge that. Tell him that you hope he gets what he wanted out of Scientology, that you are concerned he is involved with a dangerous cult, and that if he changes his mind, you won't think less of him, he'll always have someone to turn to.

Then STOP.

 

[KnightVision]

I can understand how it is persuasive. That's why I don't think I'll actually go to any... unless he wants proof. He has told me several times it would mean a lot to him if I went to the church with him one day.

I am afraid of actually going. I know that if he could get into it, then someone like me could too. Except that I've read these stories. I can understand the system enough right now... but who knows when I actually face it?

I'm not sure what I want to do in this case yet.

Hi krsniite,

I would suggest that you take a long walk and consider a few things...

If the situation has become complicated already and you're considering 'leading him on', etc as a way of 'getting to him'... being honest and seeing the truth is the only path to solving a problem.

If you think you are going to 'beat' Scientology at their game, you had best spend many months or years studying the best books and articles on the topic first. This is the area that the Co$ excels in. They are one of the best at it. Otherwise you'll be out of your league. To date the best 'tool' known of to 'pop the bubble" of Scn. brainwashing has been their own mistreatment of members over a period of time, often lasting years.

Your ex boyfriend has 'dumped' you for Scn. and or other reasons and has closed the door on discussing it. He may already have his eye on another in his new found 'church'. Are you prepared to suffer any amount of emotional pain and complexities to achieve your aims? And are you willing to become unwittingly involved with Scn. in your attempts?

Do you have 'other fish to fry' in this affair with your ex? If so, it would be advisable to get in contact with an expert in the field on 'dealing with loved one's in a cult'. A good expert can assist indirect victims of the cult to come to terms with their loss and emotions. Getting near the Co$ when one is upset and confused is exactly what they'd love you to do, and the worse decision that one can make.


Just some thoughts to ponder on a long walk outdoors...

 

[krsniite]

Kha Khan,

thanks for your post. I understand that it's certainly risky for me to do this. I wasn't in love with this boy. When we met I was intrigued because I could not read him as a person. Over the past few months I grew to learn how he was and now I do understand him much better, and I got to see things about him that were really wonderful, curiously innocent, and he was very enthusiastic to learn more about him and find answers to his numerous questions about life.

I know that it could be easy for me to be sucked in. I really do, it's scary. I don't know what I'll do at this point, and I realize that I would get positive feedback that I would want more of if I got into it. All I can say is, that if I really followed through with this (showing interest in Scientology and going to a church), I would take as many precautions as I can, including posting every experience with it on this board.

I do not want to compromise with him, and he did not want to with me. I don't really know what to say other than I really want to help him, because no one else will.

First though, I think I will simply try to talk to him once, about an interest in Scientology.

 

[krsniite]

Everytime I post there's a new response for me to read. With a good point in it. Gosh.

Yes... I can see already that it's a bad idea. I know that this boy I went out with is a totally different person. Most certainly.

If it makes any sense though, and I don't know if this has to do with anything, he was a raw foodist for about 3 months this past summer. He was looking for something to change his life. He wanted to do deep cleansing and dedicated himself to buy dehydrators and food processors for his new life. He told me it was for good. Last week I asked him how he felt now, if there was a difference without raw food (because he slowly transitted to cooked food after the three months) and he said he felt no different. During the months he ate raw food he convinced himself and me that he was a new person, and every change in his mood or body he attributed it to his raw food eating. After 3 months though, he seemed to relax and just not follow everything he was reading.

I know that right now he is attributing every life lesson and good feeling he's having to Scientology. I'm hoping that perhaps the same thing will happen here.

I don't know how long it takes for each individual to face the fact that they're not happy in Scientology, but I have hope that he'll get out of it. But since it's so strict and convincing, I don't know if he can do it without help.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I recommended this board to xmaineiac. I told him this was a nice forum and that the people were great.

Was I wrong?

xmaineiac is not a troll. Not everyone who disagrees with other people's opinions is a troll.

I'm truly disgusted. I see ex members CONSTANTLY saying that they wish Scn'ists would wake up, I've seen many posts decrying the lack of willingness on the part of most Scn'ists to go to message boards and talk to critics,skeptics, ex members, etc. Yes, well, when someone does, here's the bullshit some of you ladle out.

Very fucking nice.