New here, and needing help.

[xmaineiac]

I think it's best to simply write the guy off: that's what he wants, right now. Acknowledge that. Tell him that you hope he gets what he wanted out of Scientology, that you are concerned he is involved with a dangerous cult, and that if he changes his mind, you won't think less of him, he'll always have someone to turn to.

Then STOP.

Upon reflection, I would have to agree.

I just thought that maybe, if he hadn't been sucked in too deep yet...

If you ever do find yourself visiting one of their facilities, be resolute in your determination to walk back out without signing anything or agreeing to anything...or parting with any cash. They won't tie you to a chair and beat you with a rubber hose...they will, in fact, be extremely pleasant. Don't be fooled! As you have seen, there is some disagreement here about whether the subject is good, bad or indifferent...but I think everyone here agrees that the organization should be avoided at all costs.

I wish you all the best whatever you decide. He is lucky to have such a good friend, and hopefully one day he will realize that.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Hi, X,

Of course I never singled anyone out as being a dick or whatever. For one thing, I figured you could find that out pretty damn quick. I was shocked, however, to see some of the baiting you received from people whom I've always known to be decent and nice.

There's way too much goddamn paranoia here and if regulars here don't watch out, they'll scare away the very people they claim to want to reach.

The bitch of it is, though, is that almost everyone who responded to you- snarky or kind- is actually a nice person when you get to know him or her. That's why whenever I recommend this board, I don't say "Oh watch out for this one or that one, here's his or her nick, that person's a total shit."- as it's pretty obvious who cares more about making people wrong than wanting to talk to them. But I didn't anticipate the bullshit that came your way from people I've always liked and who've been mighty patient with ornery types such as yours truly. I just didn't think they'd disappoint me. But they have.

 

[gomorrhan]

Notice who doled it out, Fluff. It was TWO people, out of hundreds of posters. Notice who they were.

Zinj is congenitally convinced that anyone who is a scientologist is an agent of Hubbard's. I can see that point of view, but it doesn't credit the PERSON in there. And there is one.

IKTM seems to really enjoy the witch-hunt of accusing people of being scientologists (I've been on the receiving end, very recently). He's not identifiying them as people interested in scientology, but pointing them out as agents of Hubbard and the Church.

People who are going to post on message boards should have a thick skin: to some people, this is nothing more than a pass-time, or even a sadistic playground where they can torture people who are trying to escape an implant station masquerading as Total Freedom.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I actually like Iknowtoomuch...and it wasn't just IKTM and Zinj. (Anyway, anyone who googles Zinj knows he's first and foremost a merry prankster kinda guy. If he were a god, he'd be Loki. I cut him slack 'cuz he likes kittehs and musicals.) It was also KnightsVision (whom I actually really like) and Power Change who...ummm ...well, put it this way...I did get a good laugh at his numerous accusations about me, Elrum and blaaaack magick. (or is that blackhelicopterblackhelicopterblackhelicopter? Phuck me, I never can get those straight.) I never would expect courtesy from him toward anyone who didn't agree with him re Scn. But I did expect more from IKTM and KV.

It's so easy to accuse people of being trolls but almost everyone here is an anon. You aren't, Kev, I'm not, but a lot of people here are. And all of us found the forum and were new contributors at one time or another. And, of course, there are a lot of Scn'ists here. I did a poll and it came out like 50/50 (of those who took the poll) so I know.

I thought this would be a nice forum for xmaineiac. If I'd wanted him to end up in a cesspit, I'd have recommended OCMB.

 

[thetanic]

Let me rephrase that: what would anyone be likely to think, given the experiences I have had, with no actual evidence to the contrary? The scn mission I worked at back in '80 was a pleasant place. No horror stories there. None of the many "messed up" people I have come into contact with during my 48 years on this planet was a scientologist. The scientologists (including the non-church ones) I know and have known (maybe 250 people total) are decent people as far as I can tell.

Are you suggesting I should discount my own experiences based on things I read posted by faceless people on the internet?

I've got to say this: I used to sound just like you. I too worked in a mission and an org, and I thought that I had no dramatic stories to tell.

Over time, I realized that I did, I'd just minimized them while I was in.

Sure, none of them were like Mo's days at Int, and I had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the fact that some very bad things happened to many of the people who went into the SO. Many of the people who did jobs that I thought I wanted to do.

(BTW, Zinjifar's not faceless. Search google images; he's right there. Most of us choose quasi-anonymity, though.)

So, my question for you, then:

1) How many people did you know, or did you know of, who'd been declared suppressive? How many SP declares did you read?

2) Of those declared suppressive, how many of them did you ask their side of the story? If zero, then why?

3) How many of them have you found out what kinds of issues being declared caused in their lives?

For fairness: ~100, I read all of them, I asked none of them their story because I'd be declared, and I've only found out from ARS and here what trauma the declares had, especially on families.

Sure, some of the tech works at least some of the time -- I won't argue that point with you (though some might). The cult aspects, though, they are there.

 

[krsniite]

Interesting argument. People are people...

Yea I think I'll just try to let it go. I just watched a short film on it and I don't think I could handle it. I suppose I'll just occasionally message him to let him know that I'm always there for him.

------edit

I'm so confused still, such a big part of me wants to fight and try to get him back into his own world, whereas on a larger scale I see how this happens so much and that eventually he will get out.

 

[thetanic]

Interesting argument. People are people...

Yea I think I'll just try to let it go. I just watched a short film on it and I don't think I could handle it. I suppose I'll just occasionally message him to let him know that I'm always there for him.

------edit

I'm so confused still, such a big part of me wants to fight and try to get him back into his own world, whereas on a larger scale I see how this happens so much and that eventually he will get out.

Sounds like a good policy.

After I got out, and I was having trouble letting my first post-scn relationship go, I went to a therapist for a while.

Ultimately, his life is his choice. It's unfortunate, but that's the way the world works.

 

[xmaineiac]

I've got to say this: I used to sound just like you. I too worked in a mission and an org, and I thought that I had no dramatic stories to tell.

Over time, I realized that I did, I'd just minimized them while I was in.

How many years, then, before I suddenly realize that? No offense (none at all), but I doubt it. The Ft Lauderdale Mission in '80 was about a benign a place as you could imagine. I clearly got out just in time, as I did hear some tales about the place that happened later.

1) How many people did you know, or did you know of, who'd been declared suppressive? How many SP declares did you read?

None, frankly. I never met any declared people until last year. The ones that I met seemed to be dealing with it quite well, active in the fz (Ron's Org).

Sure, some of the tech works at least some of the time -- I won't argue that point with you (though some might). The cult aspects, though, they are there.

I know for a fact that some of it works at least some of the time. The cult aspects (imho) are limited to the actual organization. I think it's ridiculous to fear words on a page, or two people communicating in a room.

Thanks for the measured response!

Scott (by the way) (I wasn't deliberately being anon, I know there is no OSA agent outside in the bushes...)

 

[xmaineiac]

And thanks, Fluffy. I probably should have introduced myself first - that's why I was in the Intro section in the first place. But then I saw this thread, and thought I had a bright idea...

That'll teach me!

 

[KnightVision]

I recommended this board to xmaineiac. I told him this was a nice forum and that the people were great.

Was I wrong?

xmaineiac is not a troll. Not everyone who disagrees with other people's opinions is a troll.

I'm truly disgusted. I see ex members CONSTANTLY saying that they wish Scn'ists would wake up, I've seen many posts decrying the lack of willingness on the part of most Scn'ists to go to message boards and talk to critics,skeptics, ex members, etc. Yes, well, when someone does, here's the bullshit some of you ladle out.

Very fucking nice.

Hi Fluffy,

Thanks for your post, sorry you felt that your friend has been mistreated.

The subject of this thread is about a woman who's trying to contend with the loss of an ex who's gotten sucked into the Co$, and get help to get him out while not falling prey herself. While your friend may mean well, she was making recommendations that could lead woman into the clutches of the Co$ and Scientology... (by 'showing interest' in it just for the sake of staying in communication). While that may be an acceptable premise for an experienced ex or a well grooved in critical thinking parent... I felt that could put the woman at unnecessary risk as did others and thus your friend experienced 'getting shot down'. Your friend mentioned that she doesn't agree with or belong to the Co$ yet didn't seem to advise the woman of the major pitfalls of walking into an Org. As with many ex-Co$ Scientologists, their zeal to uphold the 'goodness of the tech' but 'badness of the Co$' is perplexing to even experienced ex-Scn's, and in my view apt to create total confusion in the uninitiated; it's too much information to easily sort out.

It's rather ironic that this is an EX-SCIENTOLOGIST message board, as there are a few avid Scientologists that are members; they are mostly Ex-Co$ and with but a few disclaimers about what the exaggerated benefits of the tech, they express total support for it. They don't seem to be able to recognize that covert black Scn. techniques are rampant in all aspects of the tech, not just the management stuff; or at most they make light of it. That's a big difference of viewpoint between an EX-SCIENTOLOGIST and an EX-CO$ MEMBER.

In all honestly, I feel your friend fueled the fire as much as anyone else. It's just a reality that we all have to deal with here; EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS have passionate disagreements with SCIENTOLOGISTS who only validate wrongs by Church Management And don't see the covert abuses and false data contained in the majority of Scientology Philosophy and Tech itself.

That's the reality here on the board- and when a persons life experience is at stake- the battlefield is gonna heat up...

As Veda once said to me: "It does rain here sometimes.... but it's only water"

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Well, yeah, he argued back with ya. And you can see why, right?

I think part of the healing process is to discuss one's ideas and we just don't all have the same exact ideas. That doesn't make Scn'ists or people who still have leanings in that direction less interested in catharsis and growth and figuring out WTF happened re the cult than total exes.

 

[degraded being]

Actually I got a reply from the email I sent him:



What does this mean...

You know damn well what it means.

 

[thetanic]

Actually I got a reply from the email I sent him:



What does this mean...

LJBF.

 

[KnightVision]

And thanks, Fluffy. I probably should have introduced myself first - that's why I was in the Intro section in the first place. But then I saw this thread, and thought I had a bright idea...

That'll teach me!

Hi xmaineiac!

Welcome to the board!


Yeah, sometimes there's a 'love of smell of napalm in the morning' here..:wink2:

 

[krsniite]

Yea... hmmm lots of things have happened in this thread.

I guess right now, I'll just continue missing him and get over it. I just suddenly have a lot of spare time on my hands and not many friends, since most of my time was spent with him. Not sure what to do with myself except find a way to fight Scientology.

I'm wondering how I can find others who have been left by Scientologists. Or find out when protests are. I feel very drained by this sudden change. It was just this past saturday night. I just have a sickly feeling in my chest and I can't get hungry anymore, my mind always drifts to thoughts of him and I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.

 

[KnightVision]

Yea... hmmm lots of things have happened in this thread.

I guess right now, I'll just continue missing him and get over it. I just suddenly have a lot of spare time on my hands and not many friends, since most of my time was spent with him. Not sure what to do with myself except find a way to fight Scientology.

I'm wondering how I can find others who have been left by Scientologists. Or find out when protests are. I feel very drained by this sudden change. It was just this past saturday night. I just have a sickly feeling in my chest and I can't get hungry anymore, my mind always drifts to thoughts of him and I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.

Hi krs,

hang in there. you can make it through this and come out shinning bright with a little work...

A few ideas I like... to get over loss (sorry about that )

If it's too heavy- I go see a pro. I visit a good therapist from time to time. It's light and easy going and I leave with less baggage and a smile..

I get into a new activity that can bring new supportive friends + experiences

get a gym membership
start a yoga class
go to the museum
take a hike
get a pet
spruce up a room
call up an old friend
do something fun and different with a parent
look up fun things to do in your city that you haven't paid attention to
start that hobby that you've put aside
find a cool cafe to hang out at
invite a work mate or neighbor out to go bowling
do something nice for somebody you care about
start saying hi to elderly folks you pass on the street
ask people questions about things your curious or unsure about
buy a new piece of clothing
change your hair style, be daring
try skipping again
go rent and watch funny movies and comedy performances
go to a comedy club
search your browser for Anonymous protests + your city (get a fun mask)
go to the movies (ghost town is funny!) with a friend or someone new
learn to cook a new meal
fix something that's broken
eat healthier veges, fruits and meats
take a quality multi vitamin every day


well you get the idea... I start with the easiest things that I can do right away!

Hope that helps.

 

[krsniite]

Thank you... I am going to start going to a gym soon, and I've been talking to a lot of old friends. I am trying to forget him, and then when I look in the weeks ahead of me they seem so dark.

My birthday is this weekend. I'm suddenly at loss at what to do because I expected to spend it with my boyfriend and I was excited to. Now I feel very... I don't know. Empty realizing that I don't really have anyone I'm close enough to spend it with.

Thanks for your suggestions.. I just really need to go out and do new things.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Thank you... I am going to start going to a gym soon, and I've been talking to a lot of old friends. I am trying to forget him, and then when I look in the weeks ahead of me they seem so dark.

My birthday is this weekend. I'm suddenly at loss at what to do because I expected to spend it with my boyfriend and I was excited to. Now I feel very... I don't know. Empty realizing that I don't really have anyone I'm close enough to spend it with.

Thanks for your suggestions.. I just really need to go out and do new things.

I feel very bad about this situation. But you can now see why so many people dislike Scientology. You are not alone!
Good luck in you future relationships.

 

[KnightVision]

Thank you... I am going to start going to a gym soon, and I've been talking to a lot of old friends. I am trying to forget him, and then when I look in the weeks ahead of me they seem so dark.

My birthday is this weekend. I'm suddenly at loss at what to do because I expected to spend it with my boyfriend and I was excited to. Now I feel very... I don't know. Empty realizing that I don't really have anyone I'm close enough to spend it with.

Thanks for your suggestions.. I just really need to go out and do new things.

That's Key!!

BTW, try to put together a fun time for your birthday with a few friends, at home or go out for a nice meal and a movie...

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

I feel like I need to explain why I call some people Scientologists. There is no "witchhunt".
I really don't care that much if someone is a Scientologist already. I prefer FZers because they don't support the church's "out ethics". But if you are, say so and stop saying the tech works then say you're not a Scientologist. :confused2:
I'll admit not knowing a persons opinions doesn't help at all. But when I see someone talking about the tech working, I think Scientologist. It's exactly what a Scientologist would say.
But there was more to this conversation than just being a Scientologist or not. X was saying for the OP to get interested for real in Scientology just to recover her BF.
Is that not something else a Scientologist would try to do? Encouraging new members. That I do not agree with. It was shocking to see a so called ex do this.

My words over the net always come across stronger than I mean them. But then, I've been on discussion boards for years now and go straight for the throat at times.
I appologize if I made you feel that way.