New here, and needing help.

[EastAnon]

First of all, Scientology doesn't kill people. There are all sorts of viewpoints on this board...I'm not invalidating that particular one, but don't take it as gospel. People in Scientology have died, but people die all the time. People have certainly been mistreated...but the subject itself can't kill anyone. You will hear the same couple of "stories" told over and over again; no one who wasn't there could possibly know the truth of them, but it's fair to say that way more small boys have been molested by priests than Scientologists have been seriously mistreated by the church. And of course no one invalidates the whole theory of Catholicism.

krsniite, sorry for hijacking part of this thread, but some things need to be said.

Scientology doesn't kill people. Hmmm..... that's like saying guns don't kill people.
Maybe (big maybe!) 'the tech' does not kill people, but the organisation sure does. It has killed many people. Here in the Netherlands we had Jesse Remmers, who killed in the name of Scientology, maybe even on their orders. He was the former president of Criminon.

Deflecting to Christianity and priest abuse does not make Scientology crimes magically disappear. What do you want? Pie charts indicating the helped/abused ratio?

 

[KnightVision]

-snip- My birthday is this weekend. I'm suddenly at loss at what to do because I expected to spend it with my boyfriend and I was excited to. Now I feel very... I don't know. Empty realizing that I don't really have anyone I'm close enough to spend it with.

Hey krsniite,

Guess what? We are gonna give ya a BIG BIRTHDAY BASH right here!! :dancer:

In celebration of your Birthday... I've created a thread in you honor! You can click on the link below to go to YOUR PARTY!!!


Check back often as it'll keep growing through out the weekend....

Link: http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=151140#post151140

 

[Pixie]

Yea... hmmm lots of things have happened in this thread.

I guess right now, I'll just continue missing him and get over it. I just suddenly have a lot of spare time on my hands and not many friends, since most of my time was spent with him. Not sure what to do with myself except find a way to fight Scientology.

I'm wondering how I can find others who have been left by Scientologists. Or find out when protests are. I feel very drained by this sudden change. It was just this past saturday night. I just have a sickly feeling in my chest and I can't get hungry anymore, my mind always drifts to thoughts of him and I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.

My heart goes out to you. I know, there is no pain like it. Something I've learned though, quite a lot of the time when we meet 'Mr Wonderful' it's all too easy to drop the friends for a while because it's like we sometimes allow relationships to take over our lives. So, get out there and make some new friends, then if either he wakes up or you meet another Mr Wonderful, don't let your friends go, keep them there and make sure he realizes you have a life outside of him.

The only advice I can give you regarding your pain is to breath through it. Focus on that, let that be your first and most important friend, and you will find in time that the pain will ease. There are plenty of fish in the sea so don't forget that either, and he is just one of many.

My thoughts are with you and I hope you have a lovely birthday.

 

[xmaineiac]

Deflecting to Christianity and priest abuse does not make Scientology crimes magically disappear. What do you want? Pie charts indicating the helped/abused ratio?

You are completely missing the point. Everyone knows about priest abuse, but no one attacks the whole subject of Catholicism over it. They want to punish the guilty and encourage the organization to find ways of preventing future abuse. That is an entirely sane viewpoint.

I'm all for CofS reform. I would even support it being disbanded. But it doesn't automatically follow that everything Hubbard wrote is wrong or dangerous.

In response to some of my other detractors: I don't really know if I'm a Scientologist or not. Probably not. I always put "None" under religion when filling in forms. I had nothing whatsoever to do with the subject for over 20 years after leaving the church, then I dabbled a little bit in the fz. I'm not currently involved with any organization, and not receiving any auditing. I use some of the tech, mostly without thinking about it. Once in awhile I re-read one of Hubbard's books. I'm considering having a go at The Pilot's self-clearing program, more or less just for the hell of it. (I am searching for something...)

I didn't realize this was an "anti" board. I didn't fully track the title, and sort of assumed that ex-scn meant the same thing as ex-CofS. I don't know what people mean when they talk about "dark tech" or whatever. I don't believe the anti hype. I think the CofS is more pathetic than dangerous.

Anyway, thanks for the welcome. I guess I can see how I might have come across as something I'm not, especially for someone who is on the lookout for that.

Are there really trolls? I've never run into one. I've met church people on other boards, but they've always been open about it, albeit not very forthcoming on issues of substance...

 

[EastAnon]

This is not an anti-board per se. All varieties flock here.
As you can guess from my handle, i'm not in here for spiritual enlightenment, at least not directly. I'm just offering an extra voice for the abused still inside.

Personally, i don't have a view on the 'tech'. I just don't know. Judging by the number of very vocal ex-members i'd say its no good, but other voices can be heard too.

I got the feeling you were downplaying the crimes committed, and that's why i reacted.

Getting back to Christianity. Part of their 'tech' is the cause of a lot of their problems. Priests can't have sex, but every human wants to have sex. Ergo: problem.

 

[gomorrhan]

Yes, there are trolls. That's why they are defined, that's why there are media stories about them, that's why people are leery of them.

This is not an "anti" board, although there are many exes who are "anti". Many are very confused, many are just done with it. Some moved on to other disciplines, some abandoned any related efforts.

That being said, welcome to ESMB.

 

[krsniite]

Pixie,

Thanks so much for that. That makes me understand a little better, yea that I basically didn't have much else going on in my life. But that doesn't mean there isn't anything else out there!

 

[Pixie]

Pixie,

Thanks so much for that. That makes me understand a little better, yea that I basically didn't have much else going on in my life. But that doesn't mean there isn't anything else out there!

Exactly! And you go out there and find it!! Stay as positive as you can, focus on your breath and be as much as you can in the present moment, and I have a good feeling things will change very well for you and you will have the life you want very soon. You have my best wishes. Relationships on the whole can be very much all consuming, I understand this very much... but a gentle reminder that there is more to life is all that's needed to bring one back to what really matters which is one's inner happiness and the wide variety that comes with it. Good luck and do keep us posted.

 

[krsniite]

(edit: just accidently put a HUGE picture)
http://us.share.geocities.com/lolipops24/PICTURE024.jpg
here's what my beautiful boy was, and now i can feel like i can let go of that... deceiving face of an angel.
oh maybe it wasn't such a good idea for me to start hunting down the pictures.

anyway! I will always have homework to do, so that's one thing to distract me...

 

[xmaineiac]

I think you can take any group of people, butchers, bakers, candlestick- makers, Catholics, Moonies, Scientologists...terrible things will happen to some of them, sometimes, for a variety of reasons. And now, in the Internet age, we all hear about it, almost instantly.

There's also the issue of assigning an incorrect cause. Who knows what was really going on in some of these victim's lives? Some of the time, surely, someone in the CofS was at least partially responsible for the tragedy. But is that always the case? Who says so, and how do they really know? Another example: this poor girl in France. Someone would have to be pretty seriously screwed up in the first place to kill themselves over the results of a test. Any test. People kill themselves (and try to do so) for all sort of reasons. After taking anti-depressants (statistically much more likely). After being dumped. They were fired. Their soccer team lost. I have a relative who has tried it numerous times (thankfully she's never tried very hard), and in her case no one has the slightest idea as to why she keeps doing it.

 

[xmaineiac]

I'll stop posting on this thread...it was never supposed to be about all this stuff!

Once again, all the best to you, krsnite...

Scott

 

[EastAnon]

Their soccer team lost. I have a relative who has tried it numerous times (thankfully she's never tried very hard), and in her case no one has the slightest idea as to why she keeps doing it.

What soccer team is she for?

People have their reasons, i'm sure. And almost never just one.

In the case of Kaja Bordevich Ballo which you are referring to, she did have a history. Then she got a free test, which OF COURSE told her she sucks, she's bad with people, depressed, does not value family, etc, etc.
Is it strange that such a result can send someone over the cliff?

If the test IS DESIGNED to bring bad news, what do you expect from it?

 

[xmaineiac]

If the test IS DESIGNED to bring bad news, what do you expect from it?

I don't expect anything from it. It may be (OK, it is) a marketing tool, but it's still just a test.

 

[Power Change]

Let me rephrase that: what would anyone be likely to think, given the experiences I have had, with no actual evidence to the contrary? The scn mission I worked at back in '80 was a pleasant place. No horror stories there. None of the many "messed up" people I have come into contact with during my 48 years on this planet was a scientologist. The scientologists (including the non-church ones) I know and have known (maybe 250 people total) are decent people as far as I can tell.

Are you suggesting I should discount my own experiences based on things I read posted by faceless people on the internet?

I'd suggest that you apply a 'doubt' formula and expand your pool of evidence and investigation. 'Good Germans' never saw Auschwitz.

Zinj

 

[Power Change]

It's called "good roads fair weather".
It's a way to brush people off. Keeping it all up beat and nice without actually saying anything.
Common Scientology practice when trying to fully disconnect.

exactly.....
which is why I say shock him !

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Hi, KV,

The thing is, I've talked to a lot of ex members who say they've still found some value in Hubbard's ideas. (Always a very very few of the ideas, of course) And these were people who were most decidedly NOT Freezone or Indie or CofS or any kind of Scn'ist. They felt they were ex Scn'ists, not just ex members. But you know how it goes, spend years doing something and some of the ideas rub off and are not jettisoned.

An example (non Scn) of this would be -- I was brought up Catholic. I do NOT consider myself to be a Catholic. I do NOT believe in the articles of faith set forth by that church. But I do use some of their terms sometimes and I even sometimes pray. It's just that some of it rubbed off. And I think it can be that way with people who've left the cult.

It can be hard to know what's what and who's feeling this way or that because so many here are anonymous and in cyberspace one doesn't know everyone as one would IRL. Even IRL this can be difficult at times.

 

[Power Change]

And they can change their minds again. Like I did, and so many others...

Of course, but by that time, maximum amounts of money would have been abusively milked from him, maximum labor demanded for free, and after he has ruined many long standing relationships in his former wog life due to scn indoctrination.

best to try to get the guy NOW to wake up before another life is derailed and another family ruined.

 

[Power Change]

At this point, I think it's okay to lead him on. As far I know, he led me on. In a relationship where I trusted him to be the person he made me believe he was. He told me things about how he could never break up with me and that he wanted me there for every change in his life, which is something a bit crazy to say at age 20, but nonetheless. He told me several times when he was doing the study course that he was not going to get involved with the religious aspect of Scientology. He led me to believe that he was not as involved as he turned out to be, and then led me to believe that my honesty with him in the topic would not cause us to separate.

So in this case, I believe that ME leading him on is better than Scientology doing it.

I live about a half hour subway ride from him. Again, I am determined, because I am young and I have not had enough experience yet to learn to let go the easy way. Even though I've heard it so much.

Please, tell me, if I expressed interest in learning more about Scientology, would he drop the barrier and speak to me about it? Since Scientology is so focused in being spread to more people?

From what I have personally observed in the church....you may get his attention but they will watch you and suspect you for awhile. they will become your best friends.

You are no match for scn in terms of being able to pull him away by trying the subtle approach. They can knock him down faster that you could ever hope to pick him up.

But , if you feel strongly about trying and would not sleep or feel right by not trying, if you would always regret it...then you should do what you want to do for your own integrity. worst case-you fail. best case, you succeed although highly unlikely. another worst case-YOU get sucked in and there goes another life.

 

[Power Change]

Why does it have to be a lie? Why not BE interested? You needn't be extremely interested, but surely you already have some level of interest in this thing that has taken him away from you.

You should be capable of doing a bit of investigation without getting sucked in, right?

you have been out of scn way too long--
that is not how it goes. the stakes for the church are so much higher now and the tactics are so much more aggressive than the old days.

 

[Power Change]

Wow, there are some really paranoid individuals here, aren't there?

Truth is, I'm really only visiting from Xenu, headed back tomorrow...

Your brief experience with scn, if real, has left you with an unrealistic viewpoint and greatly lacking meat. you were still on your honeymoon in scn by the small amount of auditing you did and especially because it was life repair--designed to suck you in.

I am still of the opinion you are a scn , probably a staff scn or SO. what is your post?

OK just finished the whole thread....maybe you are not on staff.....doesnt matter.