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New here, and needing help.

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Let's return to the subject: how to help this lady let go of her man, or recover him.

I believe that establishing communication is the only way to get through to this guy. However, this is exactly what the Church is coaching him to control and deflect. From his communication to her, it seems he has "gone into agreement with" the idea that she is an anti-scientologist (he may not yet have fully decided this means she's a suppressive person, but then again...). Thus, I don't think he will take any questions from her about the subject as anything other than attacks, and will perceive any other forms of communication from her with that filter in place. I think it's a lost cause, unless real communication can be reestablished. No manipulative efforts will work, because they will simply reinforce the guy's perception that she's a threat to his progress in Scientology.

I think it's best to simply write the guy off: that's what he wants, right now. Acknowledge that. Tell him that you hope he gets what he wanted out of Scientology, that you are concerned he is involved with a dangerous cult, and that if he changes his mind, you won't think less of him, he'll always have someone to turn to.

Then STOP.

I agree with this except that before you do the last paragraph-shock him with what I said in my post earlier on --facts facts...leave a book or two....then do gomorrhans last paragraph. at least then you may have left him with a little voice of hmmmm....curious to open the book.....oh yes he will be.
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Kha Khan,

thanks for your post. I understand that it's certainly risky for me to do this. I wasn't in love with this boy. When we met I was intrigued because I could not read him as a person. Over the past few months I grew to learn how he was and now I do understand him much better, and I got to see things about him that were really wonderful, curiously innocent, and he was very enthusiastic to learn more about him and find answers to his numerous questions about life.

I know that it could be easy for me to be sucked in. I really do, it's scary. I don't know what I'll do at this point, and I realize that I would get positive feedback that I would want more of if I got into it. All I can say is, that if I really followed through with this (showing interest in Scientology and going to a church), I would take as many precautions as I can, including posting every experience with it on this board.

I do not want to compromise with him, and he did not want to with me. I don't really know what to say other than I really want to help him, because no one else will.

First though, I think I will simply try to talk to him once, about an interest in Scientology.

here is what I see...your curiosity is escalating and we have created such a mystery for you that your temptation to try it is getting bigger the more we post.

SO.....before you go in to try it....read the bare faced messiah and a piece of blue sky. THEN go into the church. at least then we send you in with some spiritual body armor. DOnt go in until you have read these books and read the 10 criteria by Hassan of a dangerous cult....search the threads here at esmb--it is somewhere on the board already.
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Yea... hmmm lots of things have happened in this thread.

I guess right now, I'll just continue missing him and get over it. I just suddenly have a lot of spare time on my hands and not many friends, since most of my time was spent with him. Not sure what to do with myself except find a way to fight Scientology.

I'm wondering how I can find others who have been left by Scientologists. Or find out when protests are. I feel very drained by this sudden change. It was just this past saturday night. I just have a sickly feeling in my chest and I can't get hungry anymore, my mind always drifts to thoughts of him and I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.

totally understandable. being rejected stinks , scn or no scn. but remember with scn-there is no legit reason for disconnection from nice harmless people--it has only to do with isolating him to be amongst other scn's--and less wogs (non scn).
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
I actually like Iknowtoomuch...and it wasn't just IKTM and Zinj. (Anyway, anyone who googles Zinj knows he's first and foremost a merry prankster kinda guy. If he were a god, he'd be Loki. I cut him slack 'cuz he likes kittehs and musicals.) It was also KnightsVision (whom I actually really like) and Power Change who...ummm ...well, put it this way...I did get a good laugh at his numerous accusations about me, Elrum and blaaaack magick. (or is that blackhelicopterblackhelicopterblackhelicopter? Phuck me, I never can get those straight.) I never would expect courtesy from him toward anyone who didn't agree with him re Scn. But I did expect more from IKTM and KV.

It's so easy to accuse people of being trolls but almost everyone here is an anon. You aren't, Kev, I'm not, but a lot of people here are. And all of us found the forum and were new contributors at one time or another. And, of course, there are a lot of Scn'ists here. I did a poll and it came out like 50/50 (of those who took the poll) so I know.

I thought this would be a nice forum for xmaineiac. If I'd wanted him to end up in a cesspit, I'd have recommended OCMB.

sweetness and light
 

xmaineiac

Patron
Your brief experience with scn, if real, has left you with an unrealistic viewpoint and greatly lacking meat. you were still on your honeymoon in scn by the small amount of auditing you did and especially because it was life repair--designed to suck you in.

I am still of the opinion you are a scn , probably a staff scn or SO. what is your post? :coolwink:

Your first paragraph is probably true. My experience was brief, and things were very different then...right at the end of the "golden age of scn", if in fact there ever was such a thing. It was certainly nothing like the stories being told now. Heck, both our director and her deputy had non-scn live-in boyfriends! They weren't anti, but they were completely uninterested...it doesn't sound like that would fly these days.

It was a pleasant experience. We worked long hours for little pay, but that's not unusual for a "religious order". They were all nice folks and we quite frankly had a blast. We were going to save the world, which seemed pretty cool at the time.

It's interesting to note, I think, that it didn't suck me in. Once day I decided to leave, and so I did and never went back.

But, no, I'm not. Sorry to disappoint you...I did hold a post in a fz org for a short time, but that was a couple of years ago.
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Your first paragraph is probably true. My experience was brief, and things were very different then...right at the end of the "golden age of scn", if in fact there ever was such a thing. It was certainly nothing like the stories being told now. Heck, both our director and her deputy had non-scn live-in boyfriends! They weren't anti, but they were completely uninterested...it doesn't sound like that would fly these days.

It was a pleasant experience. We worked long hours for little pay, but that's not unusual for a "religious order". They were all nice folks and we quite frankly had a blast. We were going to save the world, which seemed pretty cool at the time.

It's interesting to note, I think, that it didn't suck me in. Once day I decided to leave, and so I did and never went back.

my scn tech opinion aside --- if only it was still that way.....now it is hard sell 24/7 and staff abuse 24/7.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Your brief experience with scn, if real, has left you with an unrealistic viewpoint and greatly lacking meat. you were still on your honeymoon in scn by the small amount of auditing you did and especially because it was life repair--designed to suck you in.

I am still of the opinion you are a scn , probably a staff scn or SO. what is your post? :coolwink:

OK just finished the whole thread....maybe you are not on staff.....doesnt matter.


Ok, so first he's a Scn'ist, then he's been out too long. That is contradictory. My suggestion is that you go with what he says he is.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Fluffy,
I'm not sure what to think about your friend X. Much of what he/she says is exactly what a Scientologist would say. And if he/she is not one the only other conclusion I can come to is he/she doesn't know the organzation very well and how they do things.
Nothing personal with either of you. I have little choice but to come to those conclusions from the posts in this and another thread. :confused2:
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Do you have any ideas? I am incredibly determined to help out, because I really care about this person, and I do have hope that he can get out of this.

See my links posted to THIS THREAD.

Arnie Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK
for our friends and family
to get them out
before they end up here:
whyaretheydead.net
 

xmaineiac

Patron
Fluffy,
I'm not sure what to think about your friend X. Much of what he/she says is exactly what a Scientologist would say. And if he/she is not one the only other conclusion I can come to is he/she doesn't know the organzation very well and how they do things.
Nothing personal with either of you. I have little choice but to come to those conclusions from the posts in this and another thread. :confused2:

Well, I don't think I posted in any other thread here. I only signed up yesterday.

No, I don't know the org very well. I know how it used to be 28 years ago. I have never had a bad experience with Scientology, either inside or outside. I know a few people who were declared and departed (or the other way around), but they seem to be dealing with it well. I have heard some negative tales from them, but nothing that I would categorize as horror stories. The only negatives I know about are from forums like this, and from sites like Xenu...and I'm sorry, but I really need to take those with a grain of salt. To my perhaps hypercritical eye, they seem like overblown scaremongering. Some truth there, undoubtedly, but out of context and whipped up into a frenzy by people with an axe to grind and/or nothing better to do.

Having said all that, staying away from CofS seems like an excellent policy, one that I intend to continue. It has clearly turned into something other than what it was, other than what it was (supposedly) designed to be. I may not even bother with the tech any more, except perhaps the few minor concepts I absorbed all those years ago...ones that are hard to argue with, like the idea of people being responsible for their own condition.

Like I said before, though, I am looking for something, so I came back briefly to the subject (not the org) to see if I missed anything. The jury is still out...

None of this seems like anything a Scientologist would say, certainly not a churchie and probably not a true fz person either. If there was a way to prove it, I would do so...

Scott ("he", obviously)
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Fluffy,
I'm not sure what to think about your friend X. Much of what he/she says is exactly what a Scientologist would say. And if he/she is not one the only other conclusion I can come to is he/she doesn't know the organzation very well and how they do things.
Nothing personal with either of you. I have little choice but to come to those conclusions from the posts in this and another thread. :confused2:

Well, he has mentioned he has a background in Scn. A lot of people here have such. And as I said, ideas and jargon rub off on a person. I do think you've pinpointed something, though, perhaps-namely, that someone who has any interest in Scn concepts may look at some of these issues differently.

But Scott has said some negative things about CoS. He wouldn't mind seeing it go away.

Not everyone who was in CofS immersed themselves as much as others. Some people had more bad experiences than others. Some, who kept things light, superficial, etc, had none to speak of. Seems to me that ESMB would be a good place to fill any gaps in one's knowledge about the cult. I've recommended some threads to Scott (and to other friends) - particularly the one Mick Wenlock wrote about his experiences.

The thing is, not everyone who was in CofS or studied Scn on his or her own knows some of the depths to which the cult routinely sinks. I saw some shit when I was in, I experienced some crappy stuff, but there was stuff I never dreamed of til I got online. I am sure that this applies to others as well.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, I don't think I posted in any other thread here. I only signed up yesterday.

No, I don't know the org very well. I know how it used to be 28 years ago. I have never had a bad experience with Scientology, either inside or outside. I know a few people who were declared and departed (or the other way around), but they seem to be dealing with it well. I have heard some negative tales from them, but nothing that I would categorize as horror stories. The only negatives I know about are from forums like this, and from sites like Xenu...and I'm sorry, but I really need to take those with a grain of salt. To my perhaps hypercritical eye, they seem like overblown scaremongering. Some truth there, undoubtedly, but out of context and whipped up into a frenzy by people with an axe to grind and/or nothing better to do.

Having said all that, staying away from CofS seems like an excellent policy, one that I intend to continue. It has clearly turned into something other than what it was, other than what it was (supposedly) designed to be. I may not even bother with the tech any more, except perhaps the few minor concepts I absorbed all those years ago...ones that are hard to argue with, like the idea of people being responsible for their own condition.

Like I said before, though, I am looking for something, so I came back briefly to the subject (not the org) to see if I missed anything. The jury is still out...

None of this seems like anything a Scientologist would say, certainly not a churchie and probably not a true fz person either. If there was a way to prove it, I would do so...

Scott ("he", obviously)

Well that explains a lot actually.
But now you have me somewhat confused. You say you have little experience with Scientology yet and you have never had a bad experience but you're not a Scientologist. But then you say it's a good idea to stay away from Scientology after saying the horror stories others have been through is "overblown scaremongering". :confused2:
You have me completely lost here.

Being that you were in Scientology (as a public I take it?) for less than a full year, and not on staff. Is it possible others have been through exactly as they say?
You're making a judgement of others who were not only on staff but in the Sea Org and there for years. They being there to see many different phases of Scientology's "transformation".
Isn't that like asking the mother of a soldier what it's like to be in the military.
There is a huge separation from Sea Org members and public within Scientology. Most public have no clue what goes on in the Sea Org till someone talks or ever.
You've come into this subject with little experience and with the idea that the people who have experienced what happens in Scientology is BS. Only because you didn't experience it for yourself. Being that it is very possible you weren't there long enough to experience it yourself.
Don't the amount of people who agree on what happens in Scientology give what they say credit? Do you have to cut yourself to know that a knife will injure you?
Were you doing Scientology in a regular org or at a Sea Org united area (L.A., Clearwater)?
I'm sorry if you feel like I'm talking down to you. That is not the intention. But you have admitted you have very little experience in Scientology but you're willing to throw out what so many others have experienced for themselves.
If Scientology were as nice as what you experienced, do you think there'd be people like those you see here talking about their very bad experiences? What do you think would make them do such a thing?
How many sites have you seen from other exes of other religions?
The way Scientology works internally has brought all these people together to talk about their experiences. Most of them not good. Could they all be exaggerating?
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, he has mentioned he has a background in Scn. A lot of people here have such. And as I said, ideas and jargon rub off on a person. I do think you've pinpointed something, though, perhaps-namely, that someone who has any interest in Scn concepts may look at some of these issues differently.

But Scott has said some negative things about CoS. He wouldn't mind seeing it go away.

Not everyone who was in CofS immersed themselves as much as others. Some people had more bad experiences than others. Some, who kept things light, superficial, etc, had none to speak of. Seems to me that ESMB would be a good place to fill any gaps in one's knowledge about the cult. I've recommended some threads to Scott (and to other friends) - particularly the one Mick Wenlock wrote about his experiences.

The thing is, not everyone who was in CofS or studied Scn on his or her own knows some of the depths to which the cult routinely sinks. I saw some shit when I was in, I experienced some crappy stuff, but there was stuff I never dreamed of til I got online. I am sure that this applies to others as well.


I agree. People experience what they experience and if being a logical person, they have to go on their experience. Him throwing out what so many others have experienced is what's making my head spin though.
There are several things Scott has said that have shocked me. But to find out his limited experience explained much. :confused2:
 

xmaineiac

Patron
Well that explains a lot actually.
But now you have me somewhat confused. You say you have little experience with Scientology yet and you have never had a bad experience but you're not a Scientologist. But then you say it's a good idea to stay away from Scientology after saying the horror stories others have been through is "overblown scaremongering". :confused2:
You have me completely lost here.

Being that you were in Scientology (as a public I take it?) for less than a full year, and not on staff. Is it possible others have been through exactly as they say?
You're making a judgement of others who were not only on staff but in the Sea Org and there for years. They being there to see many different phases of Scientology's "transformation".
Isn't that like asking the mother of a soldier what it's like to be in the military.
There is a huge separation from Sea Org members and public within Scientology. Most public have no clue what goes on in the Sea Org till someone talks or ever.
You've come into this subject with little experience and with the idea that the people who have experienced what happens in Scientology is BS. Only because you didn't experience it for yourself. Being that it is very possible you weren't there long enough to experience it yourself.
Don't the amount of people who agree on what happens in Scientology give what they say credit? Do you have to cut yourself to know that a knife will injure you?
Were you doing Scientology in a regular org or at a Sea Org united area (L.A., Clearwater)?
I'm sorry if you feel like I'm talking down to you. That is not the intention. But you have admitted you have very little experience in Scientology but you're willing to throw out what so many others have experienced for themselves.
If Scientology were as nice as what you experienced, do you think there'd be people like those you see here talking about their very bad experiences? What do you think would make them do such a thing?
How many sites have you seen from other exes of other religions?
The way Scientology works internally has brought all these people together to talk about their experiences. Most of them not good. Could they all be exaggerating?


I think some of you are putting words in my mouth. I said it would be a good idea to stay away from the CHURCH. There is enough smoke that there is surely some sort of fire, I just don't know whether or not it's the raging inferno that is being painted here. Either way, doesn't matter a great deal to me as I have no intention of ever setting foot in one of those places.

I do realize (as I have said here more than once) that things are not the way they were.

And, no, I was Staff, as mentioned previously - at a Mission in Ft Lauderdale. And, as also mentioned, it was as far from the SO as it was possible to be. Nice place, nice people, I will always carry fond memories of that time. Sorry if that doesn't fit the status quo here, but that's how it was. I wish I could tell you that I was locked up in a dungeon, or had my fingernails ripped out, or was turned into a clam, or ened up a drooling idiot. But nothing like that happened. The worst thing was being sent to the mall to accost strangers :)
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think some of you are putting words in my mouth. I said it would be a good idea to stay away from the CHURCH. There is enough smoke that there is surely some sort of fire, I just don't know whether or not it's the raging inferno that is being painted here. Either way, doesn't matter a great deal to me as I have no intention of ever setting foot in one of those places.

I do realize (as I have said here more than once) that things are not the way they were.

And, no, I was Staff, as mentioned previously - at a Mission in Ft Lauderdale. And, as also mentioned, it was as far from the SO as it was possible to be. Nice place, nice people, I will always carry fond memories of that time. Sorry if that doesn't fit the status quo here, but that's how it was. I wish I could tell you that I was locked up in a dungeon, or had my fingernails ripped out, or was turned into a clam, or ened up a drooling idiot. But nothing like that happened. The worst thing was being sent to the mall to accost strangers :)



How much were you paid weekly? And if you don't mind me asking, why didn't you finish your contract?
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hello xmaineiac

I think some of you are putting words in my mouth. I said it would be a good idea to stay away from the CHURCH. There is enough smoke that there is surely some sort of fire, I just don't know whether or not it's the raging inferno that is being painted here. Either way, doesn't matter a great deal to me as I have no intention of ever setting foot in one of those places.

I do realize (as I have said here more than once) that things are not the way they were.

And, no, I was Staff, as mentioned previously - at a Mission in Ft Lauderdale. And, as also mentioned, it was as far from the SO as it was possible to be. Nice place, nice people, I will always carry fond memories of that time. Sorry if that doesn't fit the status quo here, but that's how it was. I wish I could tell you that I was locked up in a dungeon, or had my fingernails ripped out, or was turned into a clam, or ened up a drooling idiot. But nothing like that happened. The worst thing was being sent to the mall to accost strangers :)

Taking what you say at face value that you were at a really nice mission and met nice people - I can understand were you are coming from. It must be said that I'll be a very happy person when the cos ceases to exist.
When I was a reg and toured the country I visited many missions and really enjoyed the ambiance and atmosphere that I found in the majority of these places. As opposed to the orgs the missions were wonderful places to be. The difference was as day to night. The horrors of the orgs are real and the nightmare continues for those so involved. I'm glad that you escaped-that you weren't victimized by the greed and the evil that permeates the cos. I think it takes a bit of courage to join the esmb and read the experiences of those far less fortunate than yourself and to experience the terrible woe brought on by hubbard and his minions. I'm glad that you are confronting those things that you did not have to experience.
May your luck continue.
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
... visited many missions and really enjoyed the ambiance and atmosphere that I found in the majority of these places. As opposed to the orgs ,-the missions were wonderful places to be. The difference was as day to night.

How true. This has been my experience as well.
 
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