New here. Need help with leaving

[Purple Rain]

Unfortunately you are right but I would try Purple's strategy first. How can one appeal to that forgotten love if it is not displayed in some way?

Yes, and I think we have to remember that even despite the cult groupthink, Scientologists are still individuals who choose to react in different ways in different situations. For instance, I left Scientology because of the detriment to my kids. My ex-husband left Scientology to be with me. It is terrible how Adam's family have treated him, and how many other Scientologists treat their families, but even as a Scientologist I would try very hard to keep my word once given.

And whilst Scientology does pervert and corrupt people and coerce them to do things they otherwise wouldn't, they are still people. It is my experience that if you think the best of someone whilst preparing against the worst, you are more likely to bring out the best in that person but not be caught flat-footed if that proves ill-founded.

My friend Denise disobeyed a direct order from Hubbard himself to spit on someone. Maybe most others did and still do spit upon order, but you can't assume the worst. You have to give each person a chance to show who they are and what they're made of.

Look around you at all the wonderful people here. We were all Scientologists. xkcd was a Scientologist and she is a great person. There's no reason why her dad shouldn't be, too. And a lot of us defied orders indirectly or directly or told some senior where to shove them. A lot of us walked away when we saw something wrong. It might take a while for eyes to open, if ever, but I do believe that someone can be a Scientologist and still be a good person, especially if they're public.

Someone told my ex-boyfriend when we first got together, "You can't trust an ex-Scientologist." That still pisses me off, whoever said it. And it simply wasn't true. He could trust me. That kind of attitude is so unhelpful IMHO. Every ex-Scientologist I've met has been a wonderful, quality person and despite the cult persona, I'm sure I would still have loved them when they were "in".

 

[Adam7986]

but you can't assume the worst.

I think the difference in our general philosophies--undoubtedly derived from our different life experiences--is that I almost always assume the worst outcome and hope for the best one. Most always you end up somewhere in between.

 

[Free Being Me]

Yes, and I think we have to remember that even despite the cult groupthink, Scientologists are still individuals who choose to react in different ways in different situations. For instance, I left Scientology because of the detriment to my kids. My ex-husband left Scientology to be with me. It is terrible how Adam's family have treated him, and how many other Scientologists treat their families, but even as a Scientologist I would try very hard to keep my word once given.

And whilst Scientology does pervert and corrupt people and coerce them to do things they otherwise wouldn't, they are still people. It is my experience that if you think the best of someone whilst preparing against the worst, you are more likely to bring out the best in that person but not be caught flat-footed if that proves ill-founded.

My friend Denise disobeyed a direct order from Hubbard himself to spit on someone. Maybe most others did and still do spit upon order, but you can't assume the worst. You have to give each person a chance to show who they are and what they're made of.

Look around you at all the wonderful people here. We were all Scientologists. xkcd was a Scientologist and she is a great person. There's no reason why her dad shouldn't be, too. And a lot of us defied orders indirectly or directly or told some senior where to shove them. A lot of us walked away when we saw something wrong. It might take a while for eyes to open, if ever, but I do believe that someone can be a Scientologist and still be a good person, especially if they're public.

Someone told my ex-boyfriend when we first got together, "You can't trust an ex-Scientologist." That still pisses me off, whoever said it. And it simply wasn't true. He could trust me. That kind of attitude is so unhelpful IMHO. Every ex-Scientologist I've met has been a wonderful, quality person and despite the cult persona, I'm sure I would still have loved them when they were "in".

[video=youtube;P9FslIl2R-I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9FslIl2R-I[/video]​

 

[Leland]

snipped

My friend Denise disobeyed a direct order from Hubbard himself to spit on someone. Maybe most others did and still do spit upon order, but you can't assume the worst. You have to give each person a chance to show who they are and what they're made of.

.

Do you mean literally? Spit? I'd never heard of this.....details please.

 

[Purple Rain]

Do you mean literally? Spit? I'd never heard of this.....details please.

Yes. Literally spit. I just know what she told me, Leland - that Hubbard ordered her to spit on someone and she just couldn't bring herself to do it. It was not in her nature. She was always a very gentle soul, even when she held the Watchdog Committee Member X (WDC X) position. I'm not sure if she wrote that down or not, but as WDC X she reported directly to Hubbard and received orders directly from him.

 

[Leland]

Yes. Literally spit. I just know what she told me, Leland - that Hubbard ordered her to spit on someone and she just couldn't bring herself to do it. It was not in her nature. She was always a very gentle soul, even when she held the Watchdog Committee Member X (WDC X) position. I'm not sure if she wrote that down or not, but as WDC X she reported directly to Hubbard and received orders directly from him.

Sounds like HubTub testing....and thinning the herd as to who was "killer material" or not......(or some such....) OR who would obey....no matter what....OR who would hurt their friends...at his bidding.....GEEZsh.....

Very weird.....but I don't doubt it at all....

It was very interesting to me.....while I was driving a yellow cab in LA...at LAX....while in the taxi holding pen.....waiting to go into the airport.....there was a lunch truck. Most of the drivers were middle eastern and some African...and very few "white" drivers....

I would go up to the lunch truck.....and sometimes, there would be a group together milling around....and some would see me walking up....and spit on the ground.....in my direction.

I suppose it is some sort of Middle Eastern insult.....

 

[Purple Rain]

Sounds like HubTub testing....and thinning the herd as to who was "killer material" or not......(or some such....) OR who would obey....no matter what....OR who would hurt their friends...at his bidding.....GEEZsh.....

Very weird.....but I don't doubt it at all....

It was very interesting to me.....while I was driving a yellow cab in LA...at LAX....while in the taxi holding pen.....waiting to go into the airport.....there was a lunch truck. Most of the drivers were middle eastern and some African...and very few "white" drivers....

I would go up to the lunch truck.....and sometimes, there would be a group together milling around....and some would see me walking up....and spit on the ground.....in my direction.

I suppose it is some sort of Middle Eastern insult.....

Well, who knows. Men seem to do a lot of hawking and gobbing and slagging as far as I can tell!

 

[Enthetan]

Unfortunately you are right but I would try Purple's strategy first. How can one appeal to that forgotten love if it is not displayed in some way?

I agree. Hope for the best. If Dad demonstrates that it's not going to happen, then go to Plan B.

 

[Enthetan]

Do you mean literally? Spit? I'd never heard of this.....details please.

Yes, spit. It's written down elsewhere in ESMB, but on more than one occasion, Hubtard would show his displeasure by having one of his messengers go up to the person and spit in his face.

In Bare Faced Messiah, there's this passage where he has a messenger spit at his daughter Diana:

A few months later, Diana upset her father in some way. Hubbard reeled off a long reprimand to the messenger on duty, adding at the end of it: 'OK, go and spit in Diana's face.' The messenger was a little dark-eyed girl called Jill Goodman, thirteen years old. She ran along the deck to Diana's office, burst in, spat in her face with unerring accuracy and began shouting her message as Diana let out a scream of fury. Mary Sue, who was in an adjoining office, burst in as her daughter was wiping the spittle from her face. She grabbed Jill round the throat as if she was going to strangle her and also began screeching. Jill started crying and when Mary Sue let her go, she immediately rushed off to tell the Commodore. Another acrimonious husband and wife row followed, which ended with Mary Sue throwing her shoes at the luckless messenger Hubbard despatched to chastise her further.
​

 

[Leland]

Yes, spit. It's written down elsewhere in ESMB, but on more than one occasion, Hubtard would show his displeasure by having one of his messengers go up to the person and spit in his face.

In Bare Faced Messiah, there's this passage where he has a messenger spit at his daughter Diana:

A few months later, Diana upset her father in some way. Hubbard reeled off a long reprimand to the messenger on duty, adding at the end of it: 'OK, go and spit in Diana's face.' The messenger was a little dark-eyed girl called Jill Goodman, thirteen years old. She ran along the deck to Diana's office, burst in, spat in her face with unerring accuracy and began shouting her message as Diana let out a scream of fury. Mary Sue, who was in an adjoining office, burst in as her daughter was wiping the spittle from her face. She grabbed Jill round the throat as if she was going to strangle her and also began screeching. Jill started crying and when Mary Sue let her go, she immediately rushed off to tell the Commodore. Another acrimonious husband and wife row followed, which ended with Mary Sue throwing her shoes at the luckless messenger Hubbard despatched to chastise her further.
​

I guess I'll have to break down and read some of these tell all books. Then I can stop asking uninformed questions. Geeze some of these revelations are just NUTS.

I could have read Bare Faced Messiah almost two decades ago.....it would have saved me a lot of grief....!!!

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Yes, and I think we have to remember that even despite the cult groupthink, Scientologists are still individuals who choose to react in different ways in different situations. For instance, I left Scientology because of the detriment to my kids. My ex-husband left Scientology to be with me. It is terrible how Adam's family have treated him, and how many other Scientologists treat their families, but even as a Scientologist I would try very hard to keep my word once given.

And whilst Scientology does pervert and corrupt people and coerce them to do things they otherwise wouldn't, they are still people. It is my experience that if you think the best of someone whilst preparing against the worst, you are more likely to bring out the best in that person but not be caught flat-footed if that proves ill-founded.

My friend Denise disobeyed a direct order from Hubbard himself to spit on someone. Maybe most others did and still do spit upon order, but you can't assume the worst. You have to give each person a chance to show who they are and what they're made of.

Look around you at all the wonderful people here. We were all Scientologists. xkcd was a Scientologist and she is a great person. There's no reason why her dad shouldn't be, too. And a lot of us defied orders indirectly or directly or told some senior where to shove them. A lot of us walked away when we saw something wrong. It might take a while for eyes to open, if ever, but I do believe that someone can be a Scientologist and still be a good person, especially if they're public.

Someone told my ex-boyfriend when we first got together, "You can't trust an ex-Scientologist." That still pisses me off, whoever said it. And it simply wasn't true. He could trust me. That kind of attitude is so unhelpful IMHO. Every ex-Scientologist I've met has been a wonderful, quality person and despite the cult persona, I'm sure I would still have loved them when they were "in".

Thank you for that, Purple. Mr/s Blanky is a still in and is one of the kindest, most caring, people you could ever want to know. I would trust him/her with my life. Some of the people who have been the kindest and most helpful during my mother's illness are people Mr/s B knows from the org. They have offered time, energy, shoulders to cry on, and so much love and kindness. They are good people who are being exploited and used.

 

[xkcd]

Well, he came over, we showed him the apartment, ate out, and then he left. He was a very outgoing guy and more relatable than my own dad. The three of us talked about a lot of stuff, and there was no mention of Scientology at all and his lingo was lacking. He was alone, and she said that this is how he usually acts alone. So everything went much better than expected. Granted, he's still down here and we're going to have dinner with him tomorrow night, but so far nothing fishy.

 

[Enthetan]

Well, he came over, we showed him the apartment, ate out, and then he left. He was a very outgoing guy and more relatable than my own dad. The three of us talked about a lot of stuff, and there was no mention of Scientology at all and his lingo was lacking. He was alone, and she said that this is how he usually acts alone. So everything went much better than expected. Granted, he's still down here and we're going to have dinner with him tomorrow night, but so far nothing fishy.

Sounds great! I'm going to guess the best path, going forward, is to just maintain the positive relationship.

How's girlfriend doing? Does she like how things went today?

When she says "this is how he usually acts alone", does she mean "away from step-mom"?

 

[xkcd]

Sounds great! I'm going to guess the best path, going forward, is to just maintain the positive relationship.

How's girlfriend doing? Does she like how things went today?

When she says "this is how he usually acts alone", does she mean "away from step-mom"?

She's doing well. She believes that he just wanted to see her and meet me. And yes, away from the stepmom and Scientology. I think we all know that one friend or family member who's great to hang out with when they're alone, but then changes for the worst when they're around certain people.

 

[Enthetan]

She's doing well. She believes that he just wanted to see her and meet me. And yes, away from the stepmom and Scientology. I think we all know that one friend or family member who's great to hang out with when they're alone, but then changes for the worst when they're around certain people.

I sent what I was going to say to you as a private message.

 

[Purple Rain]

Well, he came over, we showed him the apartment, ate out, and then he left. He was a very outgoing guy and more relatable than my own dad. The three of us talked about a lot of stuff, and there was no mention of Scientology at all and his lingo was lacking. He was alone, and she said that this is how he usually acts alone. So everything went much better than expected. Granted, he's still down here and we're going to have dinner with him tomorrow night, but so far nothing fishy.

It sounds great! I'm really glad that it worked out so well, xkcd and xkcd! Fingers crossed for the rest of the time! Bear in mind that no matter how wonderful this time together is he still may be pressured to disconnect from you at some stage, but that is all the more reason these moments are precious. Also, he still might talk to you about Scientology but words are just words and nothing to be feared if you are sure in yourself, and if anything Scientologists have more to fear from words than the people outside which is why the organisation works so hard to control what Scientologists see and hear.

I suspect his daughter is a chip off the old block, which is why she ended up living with a non-Scientologist. When you think what it took to do that - how much of an individual you must be to do that in that very group-dominated setting - where people even talk about "individuated" as a BAD thing - then I suspect that he has a bit of a rebel's heart also and will be harder to tell what to do in relation to his daughter than everyone will suspect.

But then I do like to think the best of people until they show me otherwise. Still, maybe he WANTS to see the truth for himself - the truth about his daughter. He probably has a lot to process at the moment, if we could see into his mind for a minute.

Anyway, have fun, and hope tomorrow is also good for you all.

Much love,
Purple

God, I'm getting so into this family drama! Lol!

 

[Claire Swazey]

Like I said, maybe the dude just happens to like his kid.

There are different situations with every family. There are a lot of Scientologists who are secret dissenters- but who feel they can't say anything.

 

[Enthetan]

Like I said, maybe the dude just happens to like his kid.

There are different situations with every family. There are a lot of Scientologists who are secret dissenters- but who feel they can't say anything.

Who knows, it could be that Dad is dissatisfied too, but can't leave without being subjected to a messy divorce from step-mom, disconnection from Scn family/friends, plus damage to his business interests (if he has Scientologist customers/employer/employees).

 

[xkcd]

Okay, so the dad's left and I can tell you everything.

Pretty much he visited Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon. We got some food, went to the mall, and all that good stuff. He only brought up the Scientology stuff a couple times. His stance was that it was all water under the bridge, but he doesn't want us bashing it online and whatnot. Even though I disagreed with a lot of the things he was saying, I can respect that stance. We all just went "Yeah, uh-huh" when he was talking, and she didn't really go into detail about her experiences and why she left. Sunday, we said our goodbyes and everything went well. He seems to like me, which is a plus. My girlfriend is a little worried that it will be the last time she sees him, but I think he'll still try to talk to her.

 

[Adam7986]

Okay, so the dad's left and I can tell you everything.

Pretty much he visited Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon. We got some food, went to the mall, and all that good stuff. He only brought up the Scientology stuff a couple times. His stance was that it was all water under the bridge, but he doesn't want us bashing it online and whatnot. Even though I disagreed with a lot of the things he was saying, I can respect that stance. We all just went "Yeah, uh-huh" when he was talking, and she didn't really go into detail about her experiences and why she left. Sunday, we said our goodbyes and everything went well. He seems to like me, which is a plus. My girlfriend is a little worried that it will be the last time she sees him, but I think he'll still try to talk to her.

Good news. Glad he came alone. Scientologists can find occasional moments of lucidity. He may want it to be water under the bridge but his unwillingness to address her side of the story is concerning to me. The cult itself will certainly not let it go so easily. Leaving staff without going through all he procedures is something called a "high crime" and usually demands a declare. But maybe the cult is shifting and not cracking down as hard. Scientologists have a way of being two faced about things like this. Hoping for the best for you two. If she can reconnect to her parents it might give me hope for reconnecting with my parents.