New Indie Scientology Game Show: 20 QUESTIONS

[HelluvaHoax!]

Question:

As an Independent Scientiologist, why do you believe that many once dedicated Scientologists that leave the church, eventually want nothing to do with the subject and call themselves ex-Scientologists?

My guess is that if you asked a loyal Indie that question, they would say...

"Well, Ron said that a person leaves because of O/W's. But Ron's tech brilliantly undercut that when Ron discovered that overts are caused by misunderstood words. As Indies trying to promote understanding between people, we only wish to send out Ron's loving and compassionate message to all Ex's that by simply finding their MU, the door to handling can thankfully and mercifully be opened. By the way, what are your crimes?"
​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I am going out to run some errands but feel the need to say one last thing (Chatty Sindy lol) on this topic before I go. . .
--snipped---

Leaving your computer? Going outside? To "run errands?"

It's not that we don't believe you, but why would you do such a thing? There are still plenty of threads and posts you haven't read yet. Should you really have left so suddenly? Hmmmm.

Hey, btw--those guys wearing helmetcams following you--the ones you spotted a few minutes ago in the vegetable aisle--they're from the Church of Hoaxology.

Don't think of it as being stalked, think of it as........we just want to be on your lines and flow power to you.

 

[lotus]

Leaving your computer? Going outside? To "run errands?"

It's not that we don't believe you, but why would you do such a thing? There are still plenty of threads and posts you haven't read yet. Should you really have left so suddenly? Hmmmm.

Regging Nostalgia ?????

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Originally Posted by Synthia
I can't resist "Why didn't Hubbard use a smidgen of his outrageous fortune to have his teeth fixed? ".....while making that a precept of the Way to Happiness.

He was probably scared silly of dentists.. Like an immature snotty and cowardly little brat, whose mother neglected to teach him personal hygiene.

The last time he went under at the dentist, he woke up in a different location in his head, which lead to his discovery of epicenters (if memory serves). Having experienced that dislocation, he was likely nervous of where he would wake up next....

Mimsey

 

[Reasonable]

Great Questions. I would not call myself a Scientologist but as a person who thinks that it is useful, including some of the tech ( I think auditing is helpful and would use it ) and the admin ( I still use this) I will answer the questions

SUGGESTED QUESTIONS:

1. If an individual commits serious felonies but is not caught by authorities, do you nonetheless consider that person to be a criminal?
YES.

2. Do you think that L. Ron Hubbard was a criminal?
YES

3. Can you list the crimes (that you are aware of) that Ron committed or caused others to commit?
Slave labor, disconnection are the biggest but I believe there are many more

4. Can a person be both a high level Operating Thetan and a criminal at the same time? Explain why you feel that way.
YES and NO
First I do not think the state of clear or OT exists. I do think that auditing can get rid of unwanted conditions and feeling and thus make someone more present and not stuck in the past and therefore be happier and more productive.
I don't even think it works on all people all the time but I do know it has helped me.
I even think that the OT3 story is pure imagination yet assigning your problems to something then imagining that you got rid of that something is a valid form of self hypnosis that can be helpful.
The danger is believing that the story is real ( just like believing in the baby Jesus is God and he died for your sins)


5. Do you think that anyone has achieved the state of Clear as defined in DMSMH? Have you? Why do you think Clear is or is not a true and attainable state?
NO in terms of the results stated in Dianetics
In terms of your not compulsively mocking up new pictures of painful incidents, well that is hard to say. Maybe
in terms of some improvement YES

6. Do you think that Ron or you or anyone else ever achieved the state of Operating Thetan, capable of operating outside of a body as described in the basic books of the 1950's?
NO not at all to the levels claimed in the books.
Can you or anyone you know stably be exterior with perception?
NO ...and no one can prove it. I know people who claim they are but they cannot blow my hat off at 50 paces that is for sure. I think it is possible that maybe a person can have somewhat better "knowingness or ESP or the ability to manifest" Maybe.... But if that is the case it may be 3% better than the average person.

7. Do you think the Fair Game Policies that Ron wrote are anti-social (suppressive), per the PTS/SP tech? Please explain.
I think that Fair game would be OK against a real anti social type or group. For instance Fair game would have been OK against the NAZIs as they rose to power. Fair game would have been ok to use against people who wanted to keep slaves at any point in history.
In short FAIR GAME is declaring war. And sometimes that is needed. Scientologist and RON think that anything said that is not in full agreement with them is an act of war. That is the problem.

8. Do you think that all of Ron's tech is 100% correct and works?
NO, I think that RON's tech can be used by an intelligent person to make better decisions. It is like a recipe without exact measurements. An intelligent person can get the correct measurements. There are some problems with this.
a) Many people are not very intelligent and will screw anything up, they can have a recipe and ruin it.
b) Many Scientologists do not actually apply the tech themselves. It is often an upper level person or an ethics officer applying the policy to them and telling them how to interpret the tech. That becomes a disaster.
Would you cancel any of it?
I think an intelligent person should use what works for him and ignore the rest.
How about KSW, would you make all Scientologists study and apply that?
NO not as a rote indoctrination. This is pretty dangerous in the hands of a stupid person. Again many people are not intelligent enough to apply anything.

9. Are there policies and tech and admin that Ron wrote which you as an Independent do not think should be followed? Can you list out specifically what you think should be canceled?
I think the whole thing is up to interpretation. I know I keep repeating my answer but "Guns don't kill people , people kill people" "policy doesn't kill people stupid people kill people" I think that a lot of people who work for Scientology are stupid not because they were born that way but because they are so isolated they just pass their opinions from one to the next and their intelligence becomes mutated. It is like intellectual inbreeding

10. Are you aware of the story of Ron and Paulette Cooper (Operation Freakout)? How about Ron and Mary Sue Hubbard? (Operation Snow White) If not, would you like to know the details of what Ron, the founder of your church, did? If not, why not?
YES (mostly from reading this board). I agree that RON had two sides. One was paranoid and EVIL. I don't pray to him, he is not a god. I think a lot of genius types are like that. Never the less auditing really did help me and admin really does help me.
Can a paranoid narcissistic person develop a tech that can also improve things if done properly? All I can say is yes because that is what I experienced.
I am not carving out statues of RON I am not shouting Hip hip hooray to his picture. I just use what works for me.

11. If Ron was a high level Operating Thetan with the tech and the advanced abilities to make it go right, why was he forced to resort to criminal behavior with Paulette and Mary Sue in order to get his product?
Because he wasn't that guy (an OT). That was his delusion.
Einstein first wrote his theory of GENERAL relativity then he kept trying to write a theory of relativity of everything. He kept insisting that there was one until his death. He never proved this but still he made amazing contributions to the theory of physics.
In the same way Hubbard had some hits and some misses yet he told everybody that everything was a home run. An idiot would believe this but a smart person can decide for himself which are which.

12. Are there things that Ron said about gains from doing the Bridge that you don't think are true? Do you literally believe all of the OT abilities Ron claims to have or claims that a Scientologist will attain by doing the Bridge? Please explain.
I think if your read my other answers you know what I will say here.
Ignore Ron the person. Use the tech in a way that can benefit you. Don't use it like a robot. use it with intelligence and reason, don't let someone use their interpretation of it on you. If you find another tech that works better use that.
The OT abilities are probably not true and the story is nonsense, not even close but I think I have improved by using them more than if I did nothing.
One main thing I learned from Scientology is find what you are doing that is right and do more of that. That is one reason why I left. Corporate scientology does not do that. They only apply that to getting immediate money.
The thing about the tech is you can always find a quote to defend yourself. If you use as a senior quote "Be your own council make your own decisions etc" then any way you use the tech is correct. If you are a stupid person you will see that you are not doing it correctly in that your life will suffer. If you are an intelligent person you will see you are doing it correctly in that your life will get better.
I think that if a person took the basic books, the admin series and had a good auditor he can get improvement from applying what is in those books. If he can't read, can't understand and can't apply then he will have a bad effect but for that person disaster was in the cards for him all along
Stupid is as Stupid does.
So I don't categorize myself as anything. I just try to use what I can to have a better life, if some of that is from Scientology then so be it.
MY QUESTION TO YOU:
From my answers above do you consider me an "indie" Scientologist?

 

[lotus]

Thank you for answering many questions!

 

[Type4_PTS]

I guess one could say that the truth about Ron and Scientology is just unconfrontable.

It seems to me that there is some truth in this......that the truth IS just unconfrontable.

After investing years of ones life into Scientology and coming to trust Ron's view of the world and that he has the "tech" to handle the situation, it is difficult to confront the fact that ones been scammed by a master con artist.

Just as the Cult is kind of constructed in layers as an onion, to fully leave it you've got to fully peel off the BS in layers as well. If you look at too much truth before you can handle it then it's much more difficult to confront. That's the REAL Wall of Fire, confronting the truth about how you've fucked up by investing all the time and money into a crazy cult.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Great Questions. I would not call myself a Scientologist but as a person who thinks that it is useful, including some of the tech ( I think auditing is helpful and would use it ) and the admin ( I still use this) I will answer the questions

SUGGESTED QUESTIONS:

1. If an individual commits serious felonies but is not caught by authorities, do you nonetheless consider that person to be a criminal?
YES.

2. Do you think that L. Ron Hubbard was a criminal?
YES

-----snipped for brevity-----

MY QUESTION TO YOU:
From my answers above do you consider me an "indie" Scientologist?

Do I consider you an Indie Scientologist? No.

I do however consider you really cool.

Why don't I consider you a Scientologist of any kind? Because you answer truthfully and honestly--and most importantly--you are not afraid of the truth, even if is "bad PR for Scientology".

Isn't it truly remarkable how Scientologists and Indies run about, fearful that Ron's or Scientology's "PR" will be damaged.

It is already the most hated religion by national polls.

And why is it so reviled & ridiculed? Because they do despicable and criminal things.

I think anyone who can easily admit the obvious--that Hubbard was a criminal--ain't no cult member nor indie cult member.

Thanks for answering, I kinda thought this might be a rhetorical exercise. I even saw an Indie lurking on this thread (who posts on ESMB often) and they didn't want to answer any of the questions posed. These must be some scary questions! LOL

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...


This is a question that I would love to ask an Indie Scientologist, but I really wonder if they would answer honestly in the hypothetical rather than if this question really happened in their lives for real. I know, a bit vague, but it's simple. Here, watch--

-----
​

Dear Indie,

If your life depended on it...

And you had one full year to bring proof that your answer was correct...

How would you answer the following question?
​

HAS ANYONE ON THIS ENTIRE PLANET
ACHIEVED THE STATE OF OPERATING THETAN?​

If you answer "no" then please explain what is the point of over ten million words of Scientology scripture, 60 years and billions of hours and dollars wasted.

If you answer "yes" then please go anywhere in the world, all expenses paid, and bring back one single OT who can demonstrate their ability in any way at all. For example, showing that they can go exterior and see things would be really cool!​

-----​

Why this is a fascinating question, to me, is that Scientologists (and Indies) are talking incessantly about the "tech" but there is nothing at stake for them to do so. Nothing is at risk, it's all talk, talk, talk. I'd really love to see how they would answer if something really huge was at stake, like their lives.

In my opinion it would take circumstances this dire for a Scientologist to face the stark ugly truth about the tech--and find out (in doing so) what they really, truly believe in their own heart of hearts.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax!
I guess one could say that the truth about Ron and Scientology is just unconfrontable.

It seems to me that there is some truth in this......that the truth IS just unconfrontable.

After investing years of ones life into Scientology and coming to trust Ron's view of the world and that he has the "tech" to handle the situation, it is difficult to confront the fact that ones been scammed by a master con artist.

Just as the Cult is kind of constructed in layers as an onion, to fully leave it you've got to fully peel off the BS in layers as well. If you look at too much truth before you can handle it then it's much more difficult to confront. That's the REAL Wall of Fire, confronting the truth about how you've fucked up by investing all the time and money into a crazy cult.

On the positive side, at least the unconfront-ability of Scientology is an ability. LOL

Wait, I think I just discovered a new song that will make planetary clearing a reality (clearing the planet of Hubbard's lies).

UNCONFRONTABLE
- A love song to Ron -

Unconfrontable
That's what you are
Unconfrontable
Tho' near or far

Like Xenu's BTs that cling to me
How your OT stories puts me in glee
Never before
Has has someone been more...

Unbelievable
In every lie you say
And forever more
That's why you'll pay.

That's why Ronnie, it's incredible
That someone so unconscionable
Thinks that I am
unable-to-confront lies told by you.


[video=youtube;gxZG0w8YS7A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxZG0w8YS7A[/video]
​

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Well, dollink, I didn't feel handcuffed (I ummm...actually like ...oh never mind)

but I did realize after a while I was getting way too Quixotic and into the label thing. And that was constraining- and not in a good way.

Hoaxie, there are too many people in the world- and I don't mean just Scn criticism, etc- who get too distressed and threatened over expressions of disagreement- to the point where they want to censor others. And, yes, discouraging airing of views is a type/degree of censorship.

I think that if a person's stance is any good at all, it should withstand criticism. And, really, anyone who's secure in his or her faith or beliefs should be able to keep on with what's in his or her heart even if the person's reading a lot of dissent.

 

[Free Being Me]

Great Questions. I would not call myself a Scientologist but as a person who thinks that it is useful, including some of the tech ( I think auditing is helpful and would use it ) and the admin ( I still use this) I will answer the questions. (snipped for brevity)

I truly appreciate all of your answers, Reasonable. Your candor and honesty is worthy of complete respect. Humble Regards, FreeBeing

 

[Sindy]

Leaving your computer? Going outside? To "run errands?"

It's not that we don't believe you, but why would you do such a thing? There are still plenty of threads and posts you haven't read yet. Should you really have left so suddenly? Hmmmm.

Hey, btw--those guys wearing helmetcams following you--the ones you spotted a few minutes ago in the vegetable aisle--they're from the Church of Hoaxology.

Don't think of it as being stalked, think of it as........we just want to be on your lines and flow power to you.

I'm back from the non-virtual world. It was brutal (all full of wogs and shit :wink2 so, did I miss anything?

Hey, how did you know that I went to the grocery store? Are you stalking me?

I'm askin' for a head cam for Christmas. That's it.

Pretty dauntless and defiant, don't ya think?​

 

[Sindy]

Do I consider you an Indie Scientologist? No.

I do however consider you really cool.

Why don't I consider you a Scientologist of any kind? Because you answer truthfully and honestly--and most importantly--you are not afraid of the truth, even if is "bad PR for Scientology".

Isn't it truly remarkable how Scientologists and Indies run about, fearful that Ron's or Scientology's "PR" will be damaged.

It is already the most hated religion by national polls.

And why is it so reviled & ridiculed? Because they do despicable and criminal things.

I think anyone who can easily admit the obvious--that Hubbard was a criminal--ain't no cult member nor indie cult member.

Thanks for answering, I kinda thought this might be a rhetorical exercise. I even saw an Indie lurking on this thread (who posts on ESMB often) and they didn't want to answer any of the questions posed. These must be some scary questions! LOL

I agree with you here. Very cool and much appreciated. I guess you have to be Reasonable to answer honestly.

 

[lotus]

I'm back from the non-virtual world. It was brutal (all full of wogs and shit :wink2

You rocks - defiant and dountless girl

 

[Sindy]

Great Questions. I would not call myself a Scientologist but as a person who thinks that it is useful, including some of the tech ( I think auditing is helpful and would use it ) and the admin ( I still use this) I will answer the questions

SUGGESTED QUESTIONS:

1. If an individual commits serious felonies but is not caught by authorities, do you nonetheless consider that person to be a criminal?
YES.

2. Do you think that L. Ron Hubbard was a criminal?
YES

3. Can you list the crimes (that you are aware of) that Ron committed or caused others to commit?
Slave labor, disconnection are the biggest but I believe there are many more

4. Can a person be both a high level Operating Thetan and a criminal at the same time? Explain why you feel that way.
YES and NO
First I do not think the state of clear or OT exists. I do think that auditing can get rid of unwanted conditions and feeling and thus make someone more present and not stuck in the past and therefore be happier and more productive.
I don't even think it works on all people all the time but I do know it has helped me.
I even think that the OT3 story is pure imagination yet assigning your problems to something then imagining that you got rid of that something is a valid form of self hypnosis that can be helpful.
The danger is believing that the story is real ( just like believing in the baby Jesus is God and he died for your sins)


5. Do you think that anyone has achieved the state of Clear as defined in DMSMH? Have you? Why do you think Clear is or is not a true and attainable state?
NO in terms of the results stated in Dianetics
In terms of your not compulsively mocking up new pictures of painful incidents, well that is hard to say. Maybe
in terms of some improvement YES

6. Do you think that Ron or you or anyone else ever achieved the state of Operating Thetan, capable of operating outside of a body as described in the basic books of the 1950's?
NO not at all to the levels claimed in the books.
Can you or anyone you know stably be exterior with perception?
NO ...and no one can prove it. I know people who claim they are but they cannot blow my hat off at 50 paces that is for sure. I think it is possible that maybe a person can have somewhat better "knowingness or ESP or the ability to manifest" Maybe.... But if that is the case it may be 3% better than the average person.

7. Do you think the Fair Game Policies that Ron wrote are anti-social (suppressive), per the PTS/SP tech? Please explain.
I think that Fair game would be OK against a real anti social type or group. For instance Fair game would have been OK against the NAZIs as they rose to power. Fair game would have been ok to use against people who wanted to keep slaves at any point in history.
In short FAIR GAME is declaring war. And sometimes that is needed. Scientologist and RON think that anything said that is not in full agreement with them is an act of war. That is the problem.

8. Do you think that all of Ron's tech is 100% correct and works?
NO, I think that RON's tech can be used by an intelligent person to make better decisions. It is like a recipe without exact measurements. An intelligent person can get the correct measurements. There are some problems with this.
a) Many people are not very intelligent and will screw anything up, they can have a recipe and ruin it.
b) Many Scientologists do not actually apply the tech themselves. It is often an upper level person or an ethics officer applying the policy to them and telling them how to interpret the tech. That becomes a disaster.
Would you cancel any of it?
I think an intelligent person should use what works for him and ignore the rest.
How about KSW, would you make all Scientologists study and apply that?
NO not as a rote indoctrination. This is pretty dangerous in the hands of a stupid person. Again many people are not intelligent enough to apply anything.

9. Are there policies and tech and admin that Ron wrote which you as an Independent do not think should be followed? Can you list out specifically what you think should be canceled?
I think the whole thing is up to interpretation. I know I keep repeating my answer but "Guns don't kill people , people kill people" "policy doesn't kill people stupid people kill people" I think that a lot of people who work for Scientology are stupid not because they were born that way but because they are so isolated they just pass their opinions from one to the next and their intelligence becomes mutated. It is like intellectual inbreeding

10. Are you aware of the story of Ron and Paulette Cooper (Operation Freakout)? How about Ron and Mary Sue Hubbard? (Operation Snow White) If not, would you like to know the details of what Ron, the founder of your church, did? If not, why not?
YES (mostly from reading this board). I agree that RON had two sides. One was paranoid and EVIL. I don't pray to him, he is not a god. I think a lot of genius types are like that. Never the less auditing really did help me and admin really does help me.
Can a paranoid narcissistic person develop a tech that can also improve things if done properly? All I can say is yes because that is what I experienced.
I am not carving out statues of RON I am not shouting Hip hip hooray to his picture. I just use what works for me.

11. If Ron was a high level Operating Thetan with the tech and the advanced abilities to make it go right, why was he forced to resort to criminal behavior with Paulette and Mary Sue in order to get his product?
Because he wasn't that guy (an OT). That was his delusion.
Einstein first wrote his theory of GENERAL relativity then he kept trying to write a theory of relativity of everything. He kept insisting that there was one until his death. He never proved this but still he made amazing contributions to the theory of physics.
In the same way Hubbard had some hits and some misses yet he told everybody that everything was a home run. An idiot would believe this but a smart person can decide for himself which are which.

12. Are there things that Ron said about gains from doing the Bridge that you don't think are true? Do you literally believe all of the OT abilities Ron claims to have or claims that a Scientologist will attain by doing the Bridge? Please explain.
I think if your read my other answers you know what I will say here.
Ignore Ron the person. Use the tech in a way that can benefit you. Don't use it like a robot. use it with intelligence and reason, don't let someone use their interpretation of it on you. If you find another tech that works better use that.
The OT abilities are probably not true and the story is nonsense, not even close but I think I have improved by using them more than if I did nothing.
One main thing I learned from Scientology is find what you are doing that is right and do more of that. That is one reason why I left. Corporate scientology does not do that. They only apply that to getting immediate money.
The thing about the tech is you can always find a quote to defend yourself. If you use as a senior quote "Be your own council make your own decisions etc" then any way you use the tech is correct. If you are a stupid person you will see that you are not doing it correctly in that your life will suffer. If you are an intelligent person you will see you are doing it correctly in that your life will get better.
I think that if a person took the basic books, the admin series and had a good auditor he can get improvement from applying what is in those books. If he can't read, can't understand and can't apply then he will have a bad effect but for that person disaster was in the cards for him all along
Stupid is as Stupid does.
So I don't categorize myself as anything. I just try to use what I can to have a better life, if some of that is from Scientology then so be it.
MY QUESTION TO YOU:
From my answers above do you consider me an "indie" Scientologist?

These are great answers. I would consider you an independent Scientologist in that supposedly the definition of a "Scientologist" would be a person who applies the tenets of Scientology to improve life. This is something that you do but, you do it on your own, by your own terms. You choose what to apply and what not to and you have looked at the good, the bad, at the ugly and figured out what you would like to do with it all without denying its existence. You are what a Scientologist is "supposed" to be, if you will.

On the otherhand, I would not want to call you an Indie or actually label you anything at all. You don't call yourself a Scientologist so I'm certainly not going to.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

A definition from the Diabolical Dinky DB Dictionary. . .

Indie -adj.
1. independent
2. abbreviation: Indie Scientologist.
3. conjunction: In'de cult, (short for) in the cult; inside Scientology.​

I know, I know--I am supposed to be nice.

Oh well, I am already going to hell, so why not do this thing right?

 

[Boojuum]

That post uncannily captures the insecurely childish mindset of an indoctrinated Scientologist.

They run about indignantly lecturing others and chanting Hubbard quotes with great certitude. A Scientologist with tech is like a bike with training wheels. Both can furiously be peddled/pedalled without worry.

Behind the authoritatively rigid mindset (aka 'holding their position') is a rather unsure individual.

Behind the feigned 'knowing how to know' it ain't pretty. Uh-Oh. I feel a rant coming on. LOL

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
So what do you know?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I know that you are low toned natterer and hater
and source of entheta. And I know what Ron says
that theta should always cut an entheta line.

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Did you also know that in today's blog, Marty
says Indies should stop calling Ex's natterers
and haters--and start using ARC to handle them?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I didn't know.

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Interesting predicament. Ron says to disconnect from
me but Marty has changed his mind and says not
to disconnect from me. So now what does your
knowingness tell you to do?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
My knowingness is to remain dauntless and defiant
while having integrity and insouciance, but keeping
the spirit of play for the greatest good.

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
That sounds like you are are freewheeling bumper
sticker jingles there. Are you okay?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Well, actually I am a bit shaken by this new
scriptural revelation. I am so used to calling you
a low-toned, hating natterer and gloating
all over you in a condescending way--the same
way I contempuously regard those degraded wogs.

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
It's not so bad talking to Ex-Scientologists then, is it?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
...well no, this is really wonderful! It's so theta!
I love the fact that I can talk to you again Mom!

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
And you will take your mom's phone calls now...
even though I post on ESMB?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Oh God yes! I always had knowingness that
that disconnection thing was crazy. This totally
indicates. Wow, I just cognited that I should
not have disconnected from you mom, because
Ron canceled the disconnection policy!

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
So really, Marty is just putting in KSW then and
doing what Ron said, right?

INDIE SCIENTOLGIST
Exactly! Wow you are so theta. I love you mom!
This so totally indicates!

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Dear, today is the 1st of April. It's April Fools day
honey. I was just kidding about all that stuff.
Marty didn't say that today in his blog. He
actually said it's out KSW for an Indie to be in
com with an Ex.

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
OMG! That so totally indicates.

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
Again? You just said it totally indicates
the opposite way. How come whatever
Ron or Dave or Marty says to a Scientologist
'totally indicates' to them? Isn't that kind of
a brainwashed, weak cult mentality?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I don't have to listen to your enthteta. You
are a low-toned natterer and as an Independent
I am now going to exercise my independence
and cut this entheta line.

EX SCIENTOLOGIST
I'd like to indicate that you are going to
disconnect from your mom again.

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
I don't need your damn suppressive indications, mom,
I'm an Indie Scientologist--I can think for myself!​

Great post HH. Too bad it's so close to the truth.

I think I've made a tech breakthrough here. Worthy of eons of research. Had the Pilgrims known about this small piece of mind-blowing, planet clearing tech they'd be running the UN today.

Here it is:

If you encounter any, ANY, new piece of information from LRH, use the following phrase,

"WOW, (fill in any axiom, logic, or comment by LRH), that TOTALLY INDICATES. That explains SOOOO much of (fill in ANYTHING)."

I have to admit I'm cheating here. I've seen the above used again and again and again.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...


An interesting post on Marty's blog from new Indie Scientologist, Claire Yurdin, a longtime CoS member (since '69) who published her Doubt formula. She seems like a lovely lady and long-time staff member who is trying like mad to be honest and candid in her coming-out statements.

After dutifully sending her Doubt writeup to the CoS ethics officer and posting it on Martyblog, she had some additional comments which I find remarkably refreshing. See link for Claire Yurdin goes Independent. Because they are not encoded or encrypted in PR. She actually SAYS what most assume is one of the (unstated) Indie viewpoints about leadership of the Church of Scientology:

Once Miscavige falls, as fall he must, the Church needs to be reorganized so such a person cannot again seize and maintain control. As we know, LRH was not a fan of democracy. (“The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their banks on common. They agree then only on bank principles,” HCPOL 7 Feb. 1965 Keeping Scientology Working). Note that LRH wrote that before he developed the Upper Bridge.

Perhaps there could be a convention of OT 7s and above to choose the CEO of the Church. At those case levels, the bank is no longer an issue. This would be somewhat like the College of Cardinals in the Roman Catholic Church, which chooses the Pope. All OT 7s and above could be invited. Candidates for CEO position would make a presentation and the group would vote to choose one. The CEO would report to the OT group regularly and could be removed by a 60% vote of same if need be.

I read the comments section with particular interest whether denizens on that blog would accept or reject her "political" views about taking over the Church of Scientology.

Here is one of those comments from Troubleshooter:

I don’t know about you Claire but I sure as hell wouldn’t put my church into the hands of OT VIIs unless they were veteran staff/SO with proven stats and by survey were found to be treasured by those who worked above and below them….I’ve known too many VIIs who don’t measure up to true leaders just as I’ve met pcs not yet Clear who DO.

Whether I agree with any of this or not is not the point. But, what is fascinating is that after a few years, Indies are just now starting to speak their minds a tiny bit. THAT IS A GOOD SIGN. It is headed in the direction of transparency rather than more spin and "pr handlings".

In other words, there is a faint glimmer of the vaunted "integrity" that Indies boast about so often.

Not enough, probably, to step up and answer the 20 Questions that are being formulated on this thread, but HellYeah--it is really cool to see any Scientologist (Indie or otherwise) actually say what they are thinking without having all the filters running at full force. At least for a small handful of them.

With enough filters removed, they might begin to see who the Source is of the sociopathic and blatantly criminal policies of the CoS were written by.

 

[Type4_PTS]

I know that this post isn't exactly on topic, but since you brought up the critical decision of how to choose the next leader, I am re-posting a recent comment of mine here:

I would ask Ron for his advice with this critical decision.

I know he's busy handling Target Two and all but there's no reason he can't take an hour or two to help out with such a critical decision, right?

While he's here perhaps he can award a Medal of Honor to Miscavige and promote him in rank for the work that DM did to fix all the basic books?