Hi guys,
today I've found this forum and I've immediately decided to join it. I've decided as well to post here and let you know a bit more about me.
I'm a 27 year old guy, and have been a Scientologist from the age of 10 to the age of 22-23. In this time-frame, I just did on the bridge courses up to ProTRs and got the Purif done. I've been involved though with some tech projects and I believe I know my good share of the SCN philosophy, as I've read many books as well as listened to some of the top-notch congress lectures (among which I rank the Clean Hands Congress and Responsibility and the State of OT). At present I don't define myself as a Scientologist but I am not against the philosophy.
I'm basically one of those, like many here, who got much out of Scientology and would have liked to get even more, but I believe Orgs are run badly, with staff focusing too much on getting cash and production, instead of making the environment a nice place to learn and enlighten oneself.
I hope I'll find people here to start interesting and nice discussions.
To let you know a bit more about me, I'll copy here my first post on these forums.
Hope somebody will reply and say "Hi!"
I mean, you can read Scientology in a thousand different ways: you can see it as a mission to free mankind, a personal agenda to become rich, a scheme to get power and money to an institution to engage its own "wars", and many many more.
I believe that the Scientology "tech" and the running of Scientology organizations, and even Hubbard the man, have to be kept separate. As well as, when taking Scientology writings and lectures, much work has to be done to separate the good and working data from the bad and false data: Scientology has been under development for 30-40 years, Hubbard contraddicts himself or evolves his understanding and explanation of things many many times during all those years. All the while, having to manage a growing organization and defend from unjust as well as sometimes valid attacks.
To me Hubbard was a very ambitious guy who was at times driven by passion and care for the human being as well as sometimes being enMESTed by the reactions of the environment. I believe he was also human, and I guess that the bad stuff you quote above is how a human, in a world of uncertainties and faced with attacks which need a quick response, develops his "best, quick solution". Which sometimes you cannot judge even fifty years past the day the solution was announced, so you can't rework it before a hell of a lot of people can deeply criticize it.
My quite deep living of Scientology has told me that the philosophy, when correctly understood, can teach a lot of good tenets. ARC, KRC, the tone scale and many other concepts as well as some technologies are good assets for a normal person.
What isn't good instead, is the prices currently charged and the way organizations are run, which in fact many times is aberrated. The fact is Orgs and the people running them are the problem: while I was an active Scientologist, I liked the courses and drills, they taught me something. What I didn't like, was the feeling you perceived while being at the org: any free time was a chance to be regged, asked to sign contracts with the Sea Org, fund IAS campaigns and the like; if you attended the courses, you had to take it fucking seriously, if you had some free time you HAD to be in class... even if your house was a mess or one day you really would ENJOY do something else... and the fix to any "open speaking" or "reasonable thinking" was PUNITIVE ETHICS!
I want to tell you this guys: THIS IS NOT SCIENTOLOGY!!! This is what aberrated, badly paid, not-very-smart staff make it become!!! If the orgs hadn't the objective of spilling every single cent from parishioners and were quiet, peaceful, not-for-profit organization with fairly-paid staff, SCIENTOLOGY WOULD BE GOOD!!!
And I can tell you I'm one of those guys who doesn't really believe past lives are real or that something actually happened 75 trillion years ago... It can be real as it can be just part of immagination or the result of artificial programs created by evolution which is riddling our minds... To me, if putting cans in my hands and shout implants to get reads on the meter can get me to have a brighter life, I will forego the need of having an explanation that would try to make sense of the bad things we have in our mind...
This was to say, don't go A=A=A=A when using the word Scientology. It has many aspects. Hubbard put it down clearly: what is true, is what is true for you. This sentence must be put in the right perspective and understood to its greater extent: Scientology as well must be personally questioned to be understood and to get the most out of it; and NOTHING must be taken as dogma, if something doesn't sound right to you, discard it, don't listen to "authorities", the only authority IS YOU; and be enough of a free-thinker to be able to change sometimes your past ideas and beliefs: something you discarded earlier, might prove right later when you get some more data!
To me, Scientology has got some good tech and some good tenets. It can help one become more free-hearted, passionate, upscale about his life while expanding the abilities to feel more thoroughly all the emotions a thetan can have. And even if one doesn't get immortality, this might be enough to enhance one's life and make Scn worthy.
I hope we can all get to this state of mind. I guess too many people in this society read life (and Scientology) with a 2.0, literal attitude. It's not the best way to get the most out of one's life.
Hope we'll get some debate, even though this post has nothing to do with Travolta. I can say I really feel for him... maybe Jett now has dropped the body and is free, but John wouldn't be a thetan if he didn't feel for such a loss, he would be a rock! Maybe John had projects for him, maybe he liked to play with him, to talk to him, to teach things... and that all is lost now. I believe what Scientology wants to achieve is to free you from past events so that when something bad happens you don't dramatize a full life of losses; you can feel instead the value of that moment and experience it at the right level of the tone scale, while being able not to dump your mind with bad mental images.
And about him leaving Scientology, he shouldn't do it for his son. He should do it if things can change and we can get a better Scientology. The last 5-years top management dropouts are doing a good work, teaming with the St. Peterburg Times.
I really hope one day I'll be able to get back to an Org and enjoy the experience. While taking what is good in Scientology and mixing it with all the other good teachings you got from other sources and life.
today I've found this forum and I've immediately decided to join it. I've decided as well to post here and let you know a bit more about me.
I'm a 27 year old guy, and have been a Scientologist from the age of 10 to the age of 22-23. In this time-frame, I just did on the bridge courses up to ProTRs and got the Purif done. I've been involved though with some tech projects and I believe I know my good share of the SCN philosophy, as I've read many books as well as listened to some of the top-notch congress lectures (among which I rank the Clean Hands Congress and Responsibility and the State of OT). At present I don't define myself as a Scientologist but I am not against the philosophy.
I'm basically one of those, like many here, who got much out of Scientology and would have liked to get even more, but I believe Orgs are run badly, with staff focusing too much on getting cash and production, instead of making the environment a nice place to learn and enlighten oneself.
I hope I'll find people here to start interesting and nice discussions.
To let you know a bit more about me, I'll copy here my first post on these forums.
Hope somebody will reply and say "Hi!"
I guess you are taking the "bad part" of what Hubbard wrote and did while promoting Scientology in a hostile world.
I mean, you can read Scientology in a thousand different ways: you can see it as a mission to free mankind, a personal agenda to become rich, a scheme to get power and money to an institution to engage its own "wars", and many many more.
I believe that the Scientology "tech" and the running of Scientology organizations, and even Hubbard the man, have to be kept separate. As well as, when taking Scientology writings and lectures, much work has to be done to separate the good and working data from the bad and false data: Scientology has been under development for 30-40 years, Hubbard contraddicts himself or evolves his understanding and explanation of things many many times during all those years. All the while, having to manage a growing organization and defend from unjust as well as sometimes valid attacks.
To me Hubbard was a very ambitious guy who was at times driven by passion and care for the human being as well as sometimes being enMESTed by the reactions of the environment. I believe he was also human, and I guess that the bad stuff you quote above is how a human, in a world of uncertainties and faced with attacks which need a quick response, develops his "best, quick solution". Which sometimes you cannot judge even fifty years past the day the solution was announced, so you can't rework it before a hell of a lot of people can deeply criticize it.
My quite deep living of Scientology has told me that the philosophy, when correctly understood, can teach a lot of good tenets. ARC, KRC, the tone scale and many other concepts as well as some technologies are good assets for a normal person.
What isn't good instead, is the prices currently charged and the way organizations are run, which in fact many times is aberrated. The fact is Orgs and the people running them are the problem: while I was an active Scientologist, I liked the courses and drills, they taught me something. What I didn't like, was the feeling you perceived while being at the org: any free time was a chance to be regged, asked to sign contracts with the Sea Org, fund IAS campaigns and the like; if you attended the courses, you had to take it fucking seriously, if you had some free time you HAD to be in class... even if your house was a mess or one day you really would ENJOY do something else... and the fix to any "open speaking" or "reasonable thinking" was PUNITIVE ETHICS!
I want to tell you this guys: THIS IS NOT SCIENTOLOGY!!! This is what aberrated, badly paid, not-very-smart staff make it become!!! If the orgs hadn't the objective of spilling every single cent from parishioners and were quiet, peaceful, not-for-profit organization with fairly-paid staff, SCIENTOLOGY WOULD BE GOOD!!!
And I can tell you I'm one of those guys who doesn't really believe past lives are real or that something actually happened 75 trillion years ago... It can be real as it can be just part of immagination or the result of artificial programs created by evolution which is riddling our minds... To me, if putting cans in my hands and shout implants to get reads on the meter can get me to have a brighter life, I will forego the need of having an explanation that would try to make sense of the bad things we have in our mind...
This was to say, don't go A=A=A=A when using the word Scientology. It has many aspects. Hubbard put it down clearly: what is true, is what is true for you. This sentence must be put in the right perspective and understood to its greater extent: Scientology as well must be personally questioned to be understood and to get the most out of it; and NOTHING must be taken as dogma, if something doesn't sound right to you, discard it, don't listen to "authorities", the only authority IS YOU; and be enough of a free-thinker to be able to change sometimes your past ideas and beliefs: something you discarded earlier, might prove right later when you get some more data!
To me, Scientology has got some good tech and some good tenets. It can help one become more free-hearted, passionate, upscale about his life while expanding the abilities to feel more thoroughly all the emotions a thetan can have. And even if one doesn't get immortality, this might be enough to enhance one's life and make Scn worthy.
I hope we can all get to this state of mind. I guess too many people in this society read life (and Scientology) with a 2.0, literal attitude. It's not the best way to get the most out of one's life.
Hope we'll get some debate, even though this post has nothing to do with Travolta. I can say I really feel for him... maybe Jett now has dropped the body and is free, but John wouldn't be a thetan if he didn't feel for such a loss, he would be a rock! Maybe John had projects for him, maybe he liked to play with him, to talk to him, to teach things... and that all is lost now. I believe what Scientology wants to achieve is to free you from past events so that when something bad happens you don't dramatize a full life of losses; you can feel instead the value of that moment and experience it at the right level of the tone scale, while being able not to dump your mind with bad mental images.
And about him leaving Scientology, he shouldn't do it for his son. He should do it if things can change and we can get a better Scientology. The last 5-years top management dropouts are doing a good work, teaming with the St. Peterburg Times.
I really hope one day I'll be able to get back to an Org and enjoy the experience. While taking what is good in Scientology and mixing it with all the other good teachings you got from other sources and life.
Ali G - love the nick.
Think about that. 
