New post from blownforgood - MUSICAL CHAIRS INT BASE STYLE

Lee_from_phx

Patron with Honors
OK, so I am getting the feeling that a few people here think DM is nuts. Was he always like this or did he suddenly or slowly "go crazy"?

Miscavige is a sociopath. Contrary to popular belief this is not a psychiatric condition. It is a character flaw (and yes it is a doozy). This is not something that can be treated with therapy or medication. The reason is that a part of these people is literally missing: their capacity for empathy.

Miscavige didn't "go crazy." He is not, strictly speaking, insane. He knows right from wrong, he just doesn't care. What he is, is evil. This is a topic that most people have a hard time facing. Describing someone or something as evil has fallen out of favor. Instead they are described as "crazy" or "sick." The notion that someone can simply be evil has been all but forgotten. Everyone keeps trying to find a reason why when someone guns down their coworkers, murders a child, or otherwise does something senseless and evil. In the abscence of any rational reason, the actions of these people are ascribed to mental illness. What most people never consider is that these acts were carried out specifically because they were evil. For people like this, doing evil is an end unto itself.

Like most people of this sort, Miscavige has been this way all his life. There was no point at which something happened which made him bad. The reasons why are still unclear, but there are people who are simply born without a capacity for empathy. They learn to be charming and manipulative, but they are completely incapable of any real feelings of warmth or affection for anyone other than themselves. The most dangerous among them take genuine pleasure in causing others pain. They gravitate towards positions of power where they can hurt others without any consequences for themselves. They look for excuses and justifications that will allow them to hurt others.

All of us have encountered people like this in life, and Miscavige is a grade A textbook example of this personality type.

He is evil and that is all there is to it. There is no use trying to understand him in normal terms. Everything he does is to gain more power for himself and to cause pain and suffering to others.

In normal society this is self-limiting behavior. People like Miscavige generally wind up in prison. They indulge their desire to harm others in the wrong place and at the wrong time and wind up behind bars. But in the bizarro-world that is Scientology, Miscavige's actions went unchecked and he eventually became Big Brother.

When will it end? Who knows.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
There is no such thing as " the scientology belief system".

Never has been, never will be.

He got into power because he was willing to "kill", to back up his demands with ruthless force. No one there could confront that. And they have gone downhill ever since.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
There is no such thing as " the scientology belief system".

Never has been, never will be.

Oh, well, excuse me -- then what would you call all those special words with their special definitions, the "laws," "rules," "principles," "axioms," "scales" etc. that are delineated in the volumes and volumes of red-on-white "technical bulletins" and the green-on-white "policies"?

All that stuff most certainly does make up a "belief system" and a very strict one, at that.
 

Veda

Sponsor
There is no such thing as " the scientology belief system".

Never has been, never will be.

He got into power because he was willing to "kill", to back up his demands with ruthless force. No one there could confront that. And they have gone downhill ever since.

'Keeping Scientology Working':

"When someone enrols consider that he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe - never permit an 'open minded' approach... never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest organizations in history have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of panty-waist dilettantes have ever made anything... When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eyes into a fixed, dedicated glare..."

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/fun/l-ron-spielberg.html
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
You're not expected to "believe" them. You're expected to try them out and see if they work for you. And if you do try them out and you see that yep, that's how these things work, then you will know, or disagree or make some amendments to it. All of which is fine by me.

But don't just "believe". That's yukky.

But what some of you are doing is taking a half a look at it and saying "that's crap" and then you walk away. That's not just yukky, it's pathetic.

There is a hell of a lot in Scientology that I disgree with. But for each I have worked out how I reckon it should be and that is what then works for me.

And the subject as a whole, as amended by me for myself, works just beautifully. And I don't mind saying it.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Oh, well, excuse me -- then what would you call all those special words with their special definitions, the "laws," "rules," "principles," "axioms," "scales" etc. that are delineated in the volumes and volumes of red-on-white "technical bulletins" and the green-on-white "policies"?

All that stuff most certainly does make up a "belief system" and a very strict one, at that.

The words are nothing in themselves. The belief system lies within the person and not in those word.

A person can use those words simply to explore the bounds of knowledge without subscribing to any belief system.

.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Look closely at this situation described by BFG and take note, because it is a “window” on the horror of what it would be like to live as a citizen member of a political power (a government) operated according to the beliefs and teachings of scientology.

For those out there reading who object to, or wonder why some of us are so determined to see that “scientology” never permeates our society to that extent and that no such political power arises or takes form, here in all its gory detail is the reason.

You may think that Miscavige (obviously a crazy and cruel individual, a sociopath, a despot, a person dramatizing an “evil valence” or whatever label you want to attach to him) is the core of the problem; but both he and his victims are products of the scientology belief system and its application in their lives.

That belief system underlies his victims’ willingness to tolerate this kind of abuse; and without that belief system, Miscavige could not have become who and what he is.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

One of the things that decided me to not go back to Scn was that I realised the sort of nutiness at the heart of it and how it was run would be what a "cleared planet" would be like. I realised that goal was not a desireable thing at all.

Currently the way the Burmese Government is behaving is frighteningly similar to how a Scn government, in charge of a country, would behave.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, so I am getting the feeling that a few people here think DM is nuts. Was he always like this or did he suddenly or slowly "go crazy"?

Why would someone work their entire lives on something like Scientology and then turn it over to an incompetent?

And Lulu, I think it is very important to know what capacity BFG is/was in during these incidents especially considering the angle he writes his stories from.

Some like to just gobble up anything that supports their already cemented viewpoint. It helps make them feel like they are divinely right. Or didn't you know that?

Pot, kettle and black, my friend. Some like to counter anything that doesn't support their already cemented viewpoint.
 
Last edited:

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientology wasn't like this always. What you are looking at is BLACK SCIENTOLOGY.

.

It was like that in my pre-DM days. It was just as nutty, just as callous.

I agree that it doesn't have to be like that, but it does not have a good track history. Have you talked to ex-scns, like I have, who watched LRH go batty at St Hill? Talked to people who left in the early-mid sixties because of LRH's pre-flagship abuse? I have.

In order to fully understand, grok and as-is the current situation, we must view the whole thing exactly and honestly.

I truly hope you create a golden version of white-scientology. I would even like to help, but you can't close your eyes and postulate it. You have to recognise what elements of Hubbard's philosphy and technology gave birth to the black side.

You have to spot what caused LRH to abuse and degrade. What caused DM to do the same.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Miscavige is a sociopath. Contrary to popular belief this is not a psychiatric condition. It is a character flaw (and yes it is a doozy). This is not something that can be treated with therapy or medication. The reason is that a part of these people is literally missing: their capacity for empathy.

Miscavige didn't "go crazy." He is not, strictly speaking, insane. He knows right from wrong, he just doesn't care. What he is, is evil. This is a topic that most people have a hard time facing. Describing someone or something as evil has fallen out of favor. Instead they are described as "crazy" or "sick." The notion that someone can simply be evil has been all but forgotten. Everyone keeps trying to find a reason why when someone guns down their coworkers, murders a child, or otherwise does something senseless and evil. In the abscence of any rational reason, the actions of these people are ascribed to mental illness. What most people never consider is that these acts were carried out specifically because they were evil. For people like this, doing evil is an end unto itself.

Like most people of this sort, Miscavige has been this way all his life. There was no point at which something happened which made him bad. The reasons why are still unclear, but there are people who are simply born without a capacity for empathy. They learn to be charming and manipulative, but they are completely incapable of any real feelings of warmth or affection for anyone other than themselves. The most dangerous among them take genuine pleasure in causing others pain. They gravitate towards positions of power where they can hurt others without any consequences for themselves. They look for excuses and justifications that will allow them to hurt others.

All of us have encountered people like this in life, and Miscavige is a grade A textbook example of this personality type.

He is evil and that is all there is to it. There is no use trying to understand him in normal terms. Everything he does is to gain more power for himself and to cause pain and suffering to others.

In normal society this is self-limiting behavior. People like Miscavige generally wind up in prison. They indulge their desire to harm others in the wrong place and at the wrong time and wind up behind bars. But in the bizarro-world that is Scientology, Miscavige's actions went unchecked and he eventually became Big Brother.

When will it end? Who knows.

Scientology attracts that type of personality or brings out that aspect of their personality, because it was created by a man who displayed exactly the characteristics that you describe.

Scn is a haven for such personalities to behave like this unchecked. LRH created his universe called the CofS so that he could behave like that with impunity. He created it with pre-Scn affirmations and stoked his sociopathic personality with magic.

Since his death, the stucture has inevitably been a place where sociapaths can flourish unchecked by the normal constraints of society. If DM was removed, another sociopath would rise to the top of the Scn command structure. The CofS is set up that way. It was designed so that LRH could exert his socipathic cruelty on his slaves. Keep the structure, and a sociopath will become the commander. The structure is fuelled by the promise and hope of a better world and personal salvation. It is kept in place by KSW and ethics and lies like the overt-motivator sequence. Those are the mechanisms that keep the sociopath behaving unchecked. Keeping Scientology Abusing - KSA.
 
Last edited:

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sneakster, I agree with you on that. I'm reminded of, I think was Jefferson - one of those guys anyway, who said that the best way to guarrantee democracy and freedom is to leave it in the hands of the people at large. Words to that effect - one of you Americans should be able to give the correct quote.

I've always been of the view that the best guarrantee of Scientology would have been to leave it in the hands of Scientologists. We now have that in the Freezone and if I have any "belief" or "faith" in anything at all then it is in this.

But yeah, a lot of Scientology is still in the bullpen and it is likely to be there for a while yet. That's OK by me, I work with what I have. I'm happy with that.
 

Div6

Crusader
"A cleared cannibal is a cleared cannibal". Give a cannibal Total Freedom, and this is what you get. The Reactive Mind was a mechanism to keep us all "good".
If you remove that, and not replace it with another game, then all that is left is a blueprint of serial abuse and degradation.

But there will ALSO be crimes. Perhaps some civil suits are in order.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
It was like that in my pre-DM days. It was just as nutty, just as callous.

I agree that it doesn't have to be like that, but it does not have a good track history. Have you talked to ex-scns, like I have, who watched LRH go batty at St Hill? Talked to people who left in the early-mid sixties because of LRH's pre-flagship abuse? I have.

In order to fully understand, grok and as-is the current situation, we must view the whole thing exactly and honestly.

I truly hope you create a golden version of white-scientology. I would even like to help, but you can't close your eyes and postulate it. You have to recognise what elements of Hubbard's philosphy and technology gave birth to the black side.

You have to spot what caused LRH to abuse and degrade. What caused DM to do the same.

I think I grasp many of the BLACK elements. They all boil down to using punishment (other-determinism) instead of allowing rationality (self-determinism).

This state of affairs is not new to Scientology. This is a phase that every past religion has gone through. Some have survived it, others have not. Some are just stuck in that irrational phase. That dramatization is full blown right now in the Middle East.

All one can do is differentiate WHITE from BLACK, and avoid becoming a part of that dramatization.

The desire for revenge, and exacting revenge using punishment, puts you right smack in the middle of that dramatization.

It is not easy to avoid this dramatization.

.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
I agree with you that DM "has no heart nor brain," that he is a madman, that he is vicious, that from the position he now holds he does whatever he pleases irregardless of "SCN admin tech."

So how did he get to be the COB of an international organization in the first place? and how is it that there are no built-in "checks and balances" in that organization that can be used by other members or officials of that organization to remove him?

So how is it that, rather than just throwing him out on his butt or filing charges and having him jailed, or just walking away and leaving him there all alone and powerless to do anything to anyone and starting their own kinder, gentler, more "on purpose" organization, his "subjects" in that organization allow him to abuse them as he does?

The answers to those questions are to be found in the "SCN admin tech" and the "SCN tech tech." DM and his "subjects" are products of the scientology belief system which underlies their behavior, their decisions, and the resulting organization in its current condition that they create.

One little piece of that belief system is the absolutely absurd notion that an uneducated teenager with little or no life experience is an appropriate choice to be COB of an international organization and that it is just fine that he be given the power that he now has over the lives of the men, women, and children that he now ruthlessly controls.

That same one little piece of that belief system underlies the equally absurd situation in which a 50-year-old man or woman with education and experience both outside of and within the organization can be ordered around by a twelve-year-old "ethics officer,"

... because, according to the scientology belief system, the twelve-year-old is not a "child" still themselves needing discipline, training, grooming, and experience in preparation for adult life and adult responsibilities, but rather a "thetan" with gadzillions of years of experience on the whole track who is expected to bypass their own childhood and step right into adult responsibilities.

And according to the scientology belief system, any of those people in the "musical chairs" game or any other of DM's games who banded together with others to stop that insanity would be committing MUTINY, which according to the scientology belief system is a HIGH CRIME and (horror of horrors!) a SUPPRESSIVE ACT.

I could write all night on various small segments of the total scientology belief system that support the hurts, insanities, and cruelties that former members report they committed or were subjected to or both, but you can do this deconstruction exercise yourself -- or not, as you choose.

You say:
I have been a Scientologist for the past 15 years and have only become more human, loving and alive.

I believe you. I commend you. But I would encourage you to take a really good look at how a well-meaning person such as yourself can (somewhat "unconsciously," and I mean you no disrespect in describing it that way) select out the "good" parts of the scientology belief system because they are a well-meaning person, leaving behind the "bad" parts of that belief system.

I mean, ask yourself: If YOU were putting together a world-wide organization, would YOU create a section like the CMO and give that section and its members the power they had when DM was a teenage member of that section? would YOU recruit 8-year-old kids, take them away from their parents and train them up as "cadets" who at the age of 12 to 16 could then order around people who have the age, training, and life experience that you now have?

In the "normal" world, children who exhibit the kind of characteristics we see in DM are yanked up at an early age and those characteristics are brought under control -- by the parents at first, hopefully by the child as he or she matures and learns some "social" skills, and ultimately by law enforcement if that doesn't work.

In the "normal" world, DM left to his natural inclinations would likely be in jail now playing cards with Charles Manson.

He's where he is because those who ascribe to the scientology belief system put him there and keep him there.

Why is DM where he is? Noone bothered to stop him on his way up, as happens daily with bullies and SPs in general. Man doesn't like to confront evil as this forces him to act or feel like a coward so people think DM "must be right", just like the smoke coming out of the school is probably steam from a pot of spaghetti and not a fire. I would not recruit kids or anyone not truly OT in the SO. But beings are not equal in endowment and when you have one barely endowed as DM is well, you get a lot of crazy "coping" and very few bright ideas indeed.

Yes we are gazillions of years old. But some of us have tried to do good and have learned along the way, others have not.

The only thing we can do for now is to flourish and prosper, this is what you do with SPs. Let's flourish and prosper as ex members of the COS and this will unmock DM and make him spin.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
...

You have to recognise what elements of Hubbard's philosphy and technology gave birth to the black side.

You have to spot what caused LRH to abuse and degrade. What caused DM to do the same.

Knowledge has always been dangerous. No matter what knowledge you consider it can be used for good as well as for evil.

The source of good and evil is within the individual and not in the words out there written on paper, or appearing on your computer screen.

What causes any individual to abuse and degrade?

.
 

Div6

Crusader
Knowledge has always been dangerous. No matter what knowledge you consider it can be used for good as well as for evil.

The source of good and evil is within the individual and not in the words out there written on paper, or appearing on your computer screen.

What causes any individual to abuse and degrade?

.

Lack of a decent purpose.

Individuation.

O/W's
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Scientology attracts that type of personality or brings out that aspect of their personality, because it was created by a man who displayed exactly the characteristics that you describe.

...

WRONG WHY!

You are blaming any and all knowledge.

.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
When organized religion becomes evil

We have Talibans mis-interpreting Islam.

We had the Catholic Church inverting and killing millions in the name of Christ.

We had Kali worshippers strangling brits left and right.

I have seen many idiots in SCN and they twist SCN to fit their evil and stupid viewpoint.

Admin types with no brain like DM have no tech knowledge, hence no KRC nor ARC for others. He sees SPs, not fallen brothers. He looks for randomity in other beings, like LRH did. A true OT doesn't play games and does not need randomity. He just gets the job done the best way possible.

Leaders can render stupid their followers. We see whales doing this all the time, getting beached because one was nuts.

Noone wants DM's position, that's why his head is still attached to his body. Irresponsability. Time to learn lumberjack fighting and look for a 10-foot board fence I say.
 
Top