New Scn Leader?

Ivy

New Member
Hi -
This is my first post, but have been following this forum with great interest for quite some time. I got out of Scn when Reed Slatkin hit the fan. Was in since the 60's, second generation Scn. My family is still a broken mess because of the disconnection policy. But that's another Oprah for another day...

I have been reading the posts about various people wondering who might be an effective leader to pick up the pieces in the Church if/when David Miscavige runs for the hills, goes to jail, or whatever. Some think Diana would be good, etc. I personally think there is only one person with the power who could possibly take over. Tom Cruise. Now, before you scoff, hear me out.

I know he and DM are currently 'best friends'. He's also VERY dedicated to the Church. If Tom TRULY knew what DM was doing to his Church: the injustices, the mistreatment of staff, the squirreling of the tech, etc. he'd be the one would rise up and do something about it. His PR is already rather tarnished these days - at least with the general public - so anything DM decides to sling at him from his PC folders couldn't really hurt his reputation much more. But he's the one guy who would scare DM enough to send him running. Or if he already ran, to put the pieces back together. He wouldn't be one to run the Church, but he'd be in a position to put together a new Int Mgmt team and let them get on with it. Tom has the money, power, notoriety. He's very well thought of in the Scn community. The general public would instantly accept him as a leader. The already know him. He's not someone DM could send to the RPF for mutiny (although he could declare him).

Of course, the hard part is getting Tom to realize he's been had by his good pal, DM, and that the injustices really exist in the Church...
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome to the board Ivy!

I have to disagree. I think the entire management structure of the church needs to be ABOLISHED. No more SO. no more CLO, FLO, INT, CMO, WDC, RTC, CST.

There is no way to fix the current setup. It is flawed and locked in place by KSW #1. As Ron said, the best political system is a benign monarchy - the problem is succession (and I may add the deterioration of the existing, once good, monarch). Current structure basically requires a benign monarch(s). The are no checks & balances in the structure of the organization. Thus we get DM.

I suppose there is some need for maybe one organization to certify orgs delivery capabilities, coordinate publishing the materials and perhaps settling disputes, but I'm not sure that I'd give them any power over a church. In fact it should be the other way round. Any upper body could be thrown out by a 2/3 majority of churches.

Scientology would spread far faster if all the management crap was eliminated.

Let people start and run churches just like the Christians do. Let them deliver whatever they can deliver based on their trained staff. I suppose there should be some sort of certification of what "class" church you were and thus what services you could deliver, but this would be a very straight-forward checklist of requirements. Any church should be able to train up to the level of class VIII or even class XII if they have the requisite trained staff. Delivery of OT levels would also be by meeting requirements for your technical staff.

If all the crap was eliminated I think you'd see a lot of highly trained people come back to help out.

It would cause a MASSIVE flow of stranded Scientologists up the bridge.

Oh but who is going to protect the "tech"? Well, let me point out that RTC is NOT doing that now so WTF good are they?

Oh the squirrels - well word would get around. Results or no results. Don't give good service - you'll shrivel and die.

Some new slogans:

FREE THE ORGS!!!

RTC LET MY ORG GO FREE


The entire freezone could come out from under the threats of the C of S.
 
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Welcome to the board Ivy!

I have to disagree. I think the entire management structure of the church needs to be ABOLISHED. No more SO. no more CLO, FLO, INT, RTC, CST.

Let people start and run churches just like the Christians do.

Oh but who is going to protect the "tech"? Well, let me point out that RTC is NOT doing that now so WTF good are they?

I suppose there is some need for maybe one organization to coordinate publishing the materials and perhaps settling disputes, but I'm not sure that I'd give them any power over a church.

Scientology would spread far faster if all the management crap was eliminated.

Oh the squirrels - well word would get around. Results or no results. Don't give good service - you'll shrivel and die.

There is no way to fix the current setup. It is flawed and locked in place by KSW #1. As Ron said, the best political system is a benign monarchy - the problem is succession (and I may add the deterioration of the existing, once good, monarch). Current structure basically requires a benign monarch(s). The are no checks & balances in the structure of the organization. Thus we get DM.

My new motto: FREE THE ORGS!!!

Yo Ho, Yo Ho, A Pirate's Life for Me! :thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker
 

Ivy

New Member
Hi Mark -
I guess it's all what each of us believes. Some people believe the old tech to be something to be salvaged. Some people would rather see the whole thing scraped to the ground and tamped on hard. (And I believe the only way to do that is to hit its achilles heel by abolishing its tax exemption.) Others would rather it just implode itself and turn into something like the empty Christian Science Reading Rooms. (If we just leave DM alone, that will happen in the near future.) Scraping it to the ground wouldn't kill the Church - its members would just gravitate into the Freezone or more Churches would spring up. I personally think the Freezone is a good fresh start for those who would like to keep the tech.

I totally understand what you mean by it already being 'flawed' by KSW. And I agree. Finding any workable tech in the Church now is kind of like picking glass out of your food. But those who believe in the tech are still going to believe in it.

If Tom were to take over the Church, you're quite right - a lot of the "outies" WOULD stream back in. New people WOULD flood back in because of Tom. It would be their salvation. Depending on your viewpoint, this is either a good thing or a bad thing.

Free the Orgs and set them all free to run themselves? Now that's an idea... Let the strong survive... That's one option I hadn't thought of.
 

Ivy

New Member
Oops! Sorry Mark, I should have addressed my reply to PirateAndBum. I'm still getting the hang of this thing...
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Free the Orgs and set them all free to run themselves? Now that's an idea... Let the strong survive... That's one option I hadn't thought of.

The freezone are among the strong. So are the independants
such as Alan.

Pilot had the vision of a Freezone and Church co-operating.

Best is if Tom goes publically freezone friendly. The family who introduced him to scientology, the Spicklers ( Mimi Rogers) are now freezone.

If he does that and remains publically a scientologist this would probably destroy Miscavidges hold on COS and members. DM would have no credibility at all re attacks on Tom.

Others may wish to consider how such a scenario might go.
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
I agree with P&B. What really is the need for all of the upper management?

If the main product is getting people up the bridge-keep the resources in the actual orgs.

Keep auditing affordable-say 250-500 per hour.

If public are getting good results and not being hit up for donations, recruiting, and all of the other BS they will come in and will bring others in.

I don't really see how an org could not be self sufficient with much lower rates and not sending local money off to "mgmt.

Offer courses and let the students have plesant experience on course-don't have staff lining up 5 deep at 10 min. to 10 waiting like vultures!!!

Pay your staff well-if the org. is run like any other business and is giving good service there should be plenty to actuall pay salaries.

Sell good products-stop asking everyone for constant donations.

You know what though? I don't think I'll ever trust enough to go back. I don't think the basic mindset is one I could ever deal with again. It was too much for me time and time again.
 

Good twin

Floater
I agree with Terril. If Tc were to publicly ally himself with the Freezone, that would change everything.
Problem is, as far as I can tell no Freezoner is going to lovebomb him for his celebrity status. IMO he's not the Jesus of Scientology because of the gains he's gotten from anything resembling standard tech. He's telling as many lies as DM. He knows it's a big PR machine and he's loving it. He most likely would have no allegiance to the Spicklers. From what I've seen he has a very perverted view of "getting ethics in". He works best with a script. DM gives it to him. You wouldn't do that, would you Terril? Sorry, I'm rambling I just totally freaked when he got his Freedom Medal.:omg:
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
As far as TC being ruthless on getting in his ethics-how many traffic accidents do you think he ever really stopped at and got out of the limo?

It must be hundreds in LA alone since he is the "only one" who can really help!
:nervous: :nervous:
 

Good twin

Floater
Okay, now you've got me going. While SO members are living on no pay, no time off enforced abortions, in order to ensure that Scientology attains it's goal of a Cleared planet...Tom Cruise is flaunting his pregnant girlfriend and jetting around the world and getting all up COB's butt.
How dare DM lick TC's balls publicly and internationally in front of the thousands of loyal and dedicated who gave their everything for the group!!!!
It was a slap in the face.
There's another idea for a protest sign:

"Do you really think Tom Cruise is doing more to save mankind then YOU are?"

I hereby nominate Bea for a Freedom medal. (Or would it be a Free from medal?)
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
You are so right!! And......how many recuiters will be stopping by Tom and Katie's to recruit and take away Connor and Isabelle? Oh, that's right-none!
I remember being so upset one night because we were getting hasselled for $ big time that we did not have. I turn on Enertainment Tonite and there was a story about Katie's $2000 perfume and Tom's $4000 underpants for the 3Million $ wedding!!! It was so ridicuolous and unfair. We're running around like assholes selling books, going on course, volunteering for this and that and we're getting treated like s***!And this joker gets a medal?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I agree with Terril. If Tc were to publicly ally himself with the Freezone, that would change everything.
Problem is, as far as I can tell no Freezoner is going to lovebomb him for his celebrity status. IMO he's not the Jesus of Scientology because of the gains he's gotten from anything resembling standard tech. He's telling as many lies as DM. He knows it's a big PR machine and he's loving it. He most likely would have no allegiance to the Spicklers. From what I've seen he has a very perverted view of "getting ethics in". He works best with a script. DM gives it to him. You wouldn't do that, would you Terril? Sorry, I'm rambling I just totally freaked when he got his Freedom Medal.:omg:

I'd personally we willing to sacrifice myself on the alter of "Love bombing " Katie. Rotten job, but I'd step up to the plate.

I think he's totally sincere. If he tell lies, and i'm not sure what he tells as I don't follow him much, its no doubt indoctrination.

There is a very interesting comment from Dustin Hoffman
who worked with him and played the autistic brother in a film
" Rainman"

He talked about Tom's exemplary work ethic, good diet,
and so on.

He's somewhat a rondroid! People do get over that ya
know. :) I see him as a ticking time bomb.

All the videos etc that anon has released. You think he refuses to watch them? Well maybe. Do his friends and associates? They probably watch them at times.

Maybe someone will show him Alanzo's open letter or
whatever.

Explosion. :)
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
He's somewhat a rondroid! People do get over that ya
know. :) I see him as a ticking time bomb.

I do too. There was something in his eyes in that video. The real Tom deep inside watching himself spout that dribble and being told to be quiet by the rondroid part.
Time will tell!
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
The freezone are among the strong.
......
Others may wish to consider how such a scenario might go.
Well if I were to pull out my 'Quantum Crystal Ball' and choose a possibility, I'm inclined to think that if TC actually did wake up and smelt the cabbage, he would skip the freezone altogether because of all the havoc Xenu and the Markabians have been doing on planet earth ever since the Hubbo, in one of his drug induced trances, created them out of a comic book. IMHO and as I've been telling you for years ... freezone is a halfway house in the grand scheme of things. Did you print up your T-shirts yet for the camera? :D

And if he could wake up, I’m sure it will be because he has switched over to the side of the Jedi, Wooky's, other furry little people opposed to the emperor. I know I did and I know I've come to love all my extended brothers and sisters outside that box wherever I discover and uncover them.

Of course I'm sure it's probably because the word 'Love' has some meaningful definitions when you study other religions. I'n fact in all the other religions it seems to be attribute of 'Godliness' ... interesting , huh?

:cloud9:
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
250 to 500 is not affordable. Maybe it is to Tom Cruise but not to the workaday world which includes Min wage.

Barb

I agree with P&B. What really is the need for all of the upper management?

If the main product is getting people up the bridge-keep the resources in the actual orgs.

Keep auditing affordable-say 250-500 per hour.

If public are getting good results and not being hit up for donations, recruiting, and all of the other BS they will come in and will bring others in.

I don't really see how an org could not be self sufficient with much lower rates and not sending local money off to "mgmt.

Offer courses and let the students have plesant experience on course-don't have staff lining up 5 deep at 10 min. to 10 waiting like vultures!!!

Pay your staff well-if the org. is run like any other business and is giving good service there should be plenty to actuall pay salaries.

Sell good products-stop asking everyone for constant donations.

You know what though? I don't think I'll ever trust enough to go back. I don't think the basic mindset is one I could ever deal with again. It was too much for me time and time again.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Hi Ivy,

Welcome to the boards, sorry to hear about the family disconnection thing.

Now - with all due respect..

Tom Cruise?

You have got to be kidding. He is either stupid - thats for those who think he may not know what really goes on in the CofS or as manipulative as DM.

He supports what Miscavige does.

The man is an idiot - which has nothing to do with his ability to make money acting - he is a patsy and a beard.

Someone who supports that Odious Runt isn't fit to lead a latrine detail.

Mick

Hi -
This is my first post, but have been following this forum with great interest for quite some time. I got out of Scn when Reed Slatkin hit the fan. Was in since the 60's, second generation Scn. My family is still a broken mess because of the disconnection policy. But that's another Oprah for another day...

I have been reading the posts about various people wondering who might be an effective leader to pick up the pieces in the Church if/when David Miscavige runs for the hills, goes to jail, or whatever. Some think Diana would be good, etc. I personally think there is only one person with the power who could possibly take over. Tom Cruise. Now, before you scoff, hear me out.

I know he and DM are currently 'best friends'. He's also VERY dedicated to the Church. If Tom TRULY knew what DM was doing to his Church: the injustices, the mistreatment of staff, the squirreling of the tech, etc. he'd be the one would rise up and do something about it. His PR is already rather tarnished these days - at least with the general public - so anything DM decides to sling at him from his PC folders couldn't really hurt his reputation much more. But he's the one guy who would scare DM enough to send him running. Or if he already ran, to put the pieces back together. He wouldn't be one to run the Church, but he'd be in a position to put together a new Int Mgmt team and let them get on with it. Tom has the money, power, notoriety. He's very well thought of in the Scn community. The general public would instantly accept him as a leader. The already know him. He's not someone DM could send to the RPF for mutiny (although he could declare him).

Of course, the hard part is getting Tom to realize he's been had by his good pal, DM, and that the injustices really exist in the Church...
 
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