New Scn Leader?

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Hi Ivy,

Welcome to the boards, sorry to hear about the family disconnection thing.

Now - with all due respect..

Tom Cruise?

You have got to be kidding. He is either stupid - thats for those who think he may not know what really goes on in the CofS or as manipulative as DM.

He supports what Miscavige does.

The man is an idiot - which has nothing to do with his ability to make money acting - he is a patsy and a beard.

Someone who supports that Odious Runt isn't fit to lead a latrine detail.


I agree! TC has bought the PR and has no experience or interest in the REALITY.


Patron with Honors
A new leader for the church?

I recommend Ron Wiley.

He is currently holding the post of warden at the Colorado Supermax facility.


Gold Meritorious Patron
Can I make a nomination?

DM has been a great cult leader. He has had a great run and has been a great innovator in the field of spiritually conditioning his followers, and has become famous for his EXTREME LAYING ON OF HANDS rituals. He has done so well, in fact, that he is ready to move onto the next phase of the cult business, known as the Bulgravian Boogie!* That will leave an opening, known in the cult industry as a "POWER VACUUM!"

One of 8 principals you will learn on my TV offer course "MAKING BIG MONEY IN THE CULT BUSINESS" is that a vacuum always pulls someone in! That someone will be making BIG MONEY while being waited on by LOYAL, DEDICATED FOLLOWERS. Since loyal followers NEED to follow someone, whoever fills the role of Dear Leader will be doing these people a FAVOR ... and THAT SOMEONE could be YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Included in my TV offer is the BONUS booklet, "SEVEN WAYS TO TAKE OVER AN EXISTING CULT!" But ya gotta call now ... operators are standing by!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


* The Bulgravian Boogie is taught only to advanced course students


stubborn rebel sheep!
I recommend


At least it would be fun in the rpf - gulag


Robin williams

to play funny games



Patron with Honors
Welcome to the board Ivy!

I have to disagree. I think the entire management structure of the church needs to be ABOLISHED. No more SO. no more CLO, FLO, INT, CMO, WDC, RTC, CST.

There is no way to fix the current setup. It is flawed and locked in place by KSW #1. As Ron said, the best political system is a benign monarchy - the problem is succession (and I may add the deterioration of the existing, once good, monarch). Current structure basically requires a benign monarch(s). The are no checks & balances in the structure of the organization. Thus we get DM.

I suppose there is some need for maybe one organization to certify orgs delivery capabilities, coordinate publishing the materials and perhaps settling disputes, but I'm not sure that I'd give them any power over a church. In fact it should be the other way round. Any upper body could be thrown out by a 2/3 majority of churches.

Scientology would spread far faster if all the management crap was eliminated.

Let people start and run churches just like the Christians do. Let them deliver whatever they can deliver based on their trained staff. I suppose there should be some sort of certification of what "class" church you were and thus what services you could deliver, but this would be a very straight-forward checklist of requirements. Any church should be able to train up to the level of class VIII or even class XII if they have the requisite trained staff. Delivery of OT levels would also be by meeting requirements for your technical staff.

If all the crap was eliminated I think you'd see a lot of highly trained people come back to help out.

It would cause a MASSIVE flow of stranded Scientologists up the bridge.

Oh but who is going to protect the "tech"? Well, let me point out that RTC is NOT doing that now so WTF good are they?

Oh the squirrels - well word would get around. Results or no results. Don't give good service - you'll shrivel and die.

Some new slogans:



The entire freezone could come out from under the threats of the C of S.

Well thought. Well spoken. Well penned. Kudo's to you Sir, or Ma'am (or both) PirateAndBum.

And though, as a purely practical theoretical matter, a cult without a cult leader is no longer a real cult. In simple terms. And in regard to scientology, that matters. And it does so greatly. In some circles.

Now return our favor of following you here (and the op of this thread), and follow us here: The great divide in regard to the future of scientology has nothing to do with the current church and has everything to do with the people that populate it. And the people that populate it are basically cut of two distinct spiritual cloths.

Thus on the one hand your perception is sound, your analysis strong and your predictions most likely to come true. However, on the other hand, you seem to have missed the fundamental social/religious/spiritual premise upon which scientology as a force in humanity stands. On the dark side. Which all humans have, we trust you agree (a dark side). If not in actuality, at least in potentially. Yes? being called the 'dark' side, for the simple reason it's hidden

Well then, here is the dilemma (for us All to solve) PirateandBum: Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Literally 'and' Spiritually.

Thus legions of individuals (called scientologists) will refuse to live in a scientology world where there is no scientology 'leader', for the simple reason a lust for power demands an appearance of power to aspire to becoming like. In dog shit reality, in spiritual terms. True Story, 101.

...more on this later...



stubborn rebel sheep!
I beleive my recommandation is the best

Let's sell these people a piece of blue sky​


Am I [STRIKE]Maitreya[/STRIKE]a peddler
I come to [STRIKE]teach you[/STRIKE] sell you ...​


The New Leader should be the U.S. Government. They should lead in the dismantling of the entire organization. This would include imprisoning the current leaders for fraud and tax evasion or whatever legal counts you could throw at them.

I believe a retraining program (not like the rpf) for the current slaves should be part of the dismantling program so that they would be able to function in the real world.

Tom Cruise could have his own Dollywood kind of theme park. Tommywood. That would be fun.


Bitter defrocked apostate
. . .
I totally understand what you mean by it already being 'flawed' by KSW. And I agree. Finding any workable tech in the Church now is kind of like picking glass out of your food. But those who believe in the tech are still going to believe in it.

If Tom were to take over the Church, you're quite right - a lot of the "outies" WOULD stream back in. New people WOULD flood back in because of Tom. It would be their salvation. Depending on your viewpoint, this is either a good thing or a bad thing.

Free the Orgs and set them all free to run themselves? Now that's an idea... Let the strong survive... That's one option I hadn't thought of.

Finding workable tech in Scientology isn't like picking broken glass out of food... it's more like picking food out of broken glass. There are other (better) sources of food.

Tom Cruise as the leader of Scientology strikes me as unworkable for a number of reasons. Which isn't to say that he'd be worse for Scientology than Miscavige was... just that it still wouldn't survive.

First up, Tom Cruise doesn't understand Scientology. He's only ever been exposed to Celebrity Centre Scientology. He can have no notion of what life is like as an abused staffer, or as somebody who has maxed out their loans and credit cards to pay for services. Also, I doubt he understands the extent to which Scientology is run on fear. If he becomes leader and these things are revealed to him, he could blow... ending this Scientology resurgence that you imagine.

The Church of Scientology without fear, crush regging, imprisonment, disconnection, Fair Game... isn't the Church of Scientology. While it's cute to imagine independents doing their own thing, they aren't making Scientology work (MSW) either. A Freezone org would still have to slog through the same Hubbardian rat race - designed to keep people paying, and to keep them from completion and the realisation that they haven't acquired what was promised - or that Freezone org would ditch some of the 1950s era talking therapy and try something else ("let the strong survive")... which would be squirrelling. So that wouldn't be Scientology either.

The idea that Tom Cruise would cause people to flood in may be flawed, given the state of Tom Cruise's career. He's not exactly an A-list celebrity just now... and one of the things that has made him a less attractive prospect in Hollywood, is Scientology. He's not just 'Tom Cruise' anymore, but 'Wacko, couch-jumping, only-one-that-can-help Tom Cruise (and Poor Katie)'. That's how the gossip mags discuss them now. With that same "what's he gone and done now?" thing of waiting for the other shoe to drop, rather like the later years of Michael Jackson. Heading up a pseudoreligion with Tom Cruise may be hitching your wagon to a falling star.

The issue of "getting people back in" speaks volumes. Yes, Scientology shed more that half its membership in the first ten years of this century. As a business, it's been making ex-members (and heaps of money) for six decades now... but it wasn't until relatively recently that the number of victims leaving exceeded the number of victims coming in. To assume that people are leaving because of Miscavige is a very narrow view. It's the one that Marty Rathbun has adopted, and it depends upon the notion that Scientology itself is untarnished and that only D.M.'s efforts have caused the failure of Scientology. Trouble is, a person who becomes an ex-Scientologist tends to start reading. It doesn't take long for a person (who, after all, is interested in 'knowingness') to read Russell Miller, Jon Atack, Janet Reitman, ESMB, FactNet, Operation Clambake... and then they discover incontrovertible evidence that Ron Hubbard wasn't a war hero and that (in the words of former cult spokesdrone Tommy Davis) the injuries never existed; therefore, Dianetics is based on a lie; therefore, Scientology is based on a lie. It doesn't take too many revelations of that kind to remove the scales from a person's eyes, reveal the whole scam... and ensure that they will never again subscribe to Hubbardism. They won't return to Ron-worship under Tom Cruise, Tom Jones, or Thomas Aquinas.

Finally, why does Scientology need to survive at all? Ron is gone. Scientology was made by Ron, for Ron. He's dead: he no longer needs it. That's one of the reasons why he didn't establish rules for succession... because when he can no longer benefit from it, it's of no value.

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Hubbard laid the foundation of the Church, it functions the way he wanted it to function, it does not matter who the next leader will be, if any. He/she might be less physically abusive than DM, but psychologically poor Scientologists will be fucked in the head exactly the same way they are fucked now. The only correct solution is demolition of CoS.

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I can only speak for myself.

There is nothing I can imagine that would entice me back into the clutches of that organization.

Reconnect me to all the people I thought we dear lifetime friends? Nah.

Give me back the "value" of all my cancelled "certs" ? Nah.

Pay me 100K a year to take free courses and get free auditing? Nah.

Let me burn down Old Blue? Getting warm :lol:


Gold Meritorious Patron
The New Leader should be the U.S. Government. They should lead in the dismantling of the entire organization. This would include imprisoning the current leaders for fraud and tax evasion or whatever legal counts you could throw at them.

I believe a retraining program (not like the rpf) for the current slaves should be part of the dismantling program so that they would be able to function in the real world.

Tom Cruise could have his own Dollywood kind of theme park. Tommywood. That would be fun.

It's entirely possible that it is the govt. or at least an element within the govt. that is effectively running the Cof$ now. They would be doing so for a number of possible reasons: 1) at some point early on they might have been afraid that there was actually some substance to the oatee levels and would have wanted to investigate and/or render ineffective, since genuine oatees would have been seen as a threat if not under their control 2) CIA would definitey have picked up the Cof$ on its radar screen if not before than certainly after Snow White, considering the intel coup that the HubTurd and the Cof$ pulled off. True, their exploits may have been small compared to the KGB, CIA, Mossad, or the Brits, but pound for pound, considering their limited budget compared to the above mentioned intel outfits, were exceedingly effective. The CIA would therefore be interested in co-opting them and/or investigating them to see if any other intel outfit beat them to the punch. 3) Cof$ is an intel source via confessional folders 4) Cof$ is an intel source of sorts as a field-study "laboratory" for various mind control experiments.

At some point, once Cof$ is sufficiently run down and made to look bad in the eyes of the public, it will no longer be of use to the govt., assuming there is some sort of govt. involvement now. There will then be one last service that Cof$ can perform ... go out with some sort of Coolaid party or some other heinious final curtain act, such that public opinion can be mustered against freedom of religion and/or a broader attack on rights specifically guaranteed by the first ammendment.

I understand that Muammar Gaddafi is available.

I think he could fill Caligula's boots in the sky.

Why not have Farrakhan?

Probably Bernie Maddoff would be already hatted though.

The Anabaptist Jacques


Gold Meritorious Patron
I also think Muammar Gaddafi would be a fine astronaut on the dark side of da moon as he can drive a golf cart in pitch underground tunnels and still get to his bunker.

This is where Sq Busters lack competence.