New SP Times article: Former Scientology insiders describe a world of coercion

Purple Rain

Crusader
since Tommy and his wife are children of friends, I am more than a little interested. What do you *think** is going on?

What would a friend, a real friend, say to Anne or Cindy? (this is not a rhetorical question)

I think maybe he is in "the hole" or at least on the RPF. As far as what to say to his family, if he really is on the RPF, that is tough.

I think you have to "tell them the truth in love" - sorry to drag the old Christian thing out again. Make them aware very gently babystep by babystep - because deep down they must be gutted about it, even if they toe the party line. And I think it's one of those things they have to realise themselves after being pointed in the right direction, like a talented teacher gets you to see things.

But who knows? Maybe his mother's celebrity saved him and he was fitness boarded out. Or maybe he's working on some different post that was deemed more suitable - kind of a demotion.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
One of the lower grades is ARC Straightwire. The EP is the PC knowing he won't get any worse.

So it says, yes. I haven't the faintest idea how that "EP" relates to what is addressed on the level. I couldn't think with it when I first came across it and it doesn't make any technical sense 40 years later.

I *assume* now that it is another of Hubbard's reg tricks. The obvious EP would have something to do with an improved ability to recall things.

(Expanded ARC Straightwire is freely available at PaulsRobot2, no account or log-in needed. The screen before start of session is http://www.paulsrobot.com/node/1142.

Here's part of the PaulsRobot EP page for the level:

Notes:

Official End Phenomenon
All right! Please read the Official End Phenomenon for the Grade of ARC Straightwire (Recall Release):
Knows he/she won't get any worse.

Alternative End Phenomenon
And here is the Alternative End Phenomenon for the Grade of ARC Straightwire (Recall Release):
Feels good about the auditing received on this level and has had pretty good wins at recalling things.

Weasel End Phenomenon
OK. I got through that one. Next?
)​

Paul
 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
And due to his Settlement terms with the Co$, he flat refused to comment upon the Co$; neither did he provide any enlightenment as to his time in Co$ or David Miscavige's & Pat Broeker's scheme to take over control of Co$ from Ron Hubbard while he was still alive.

Well, that sucks! I can understand though. Hopefully he has written up his memoirs to be released when he passes.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
$cientology also shares "certain specific traits" with almost any other group one can come up with. Psychologists, Baptists, Rock Musicians, whatever.

What makes the Nazi comparison so very inappropriate, is that the $cientologists have not (yet) begun to remove complete ethnic groups from the face of the earth.

This might seem hard to believe, as I have been posting here for over 2 years, but I NEVER heard of Godwin's Law until today! :duh:

As I said above, there is really no need to compare Scientology to Nazis. There are plenty of other nasty totalitarian organizations that can suffice.

Don't forget that Hubbard IS the one who made statements about "only allowing Clears the right to procreate", and while I can't grab onto the exact quote (Veda help me please), there is also a quote where Hubbard says something about "letting them quietly die or fade away" (I am heavily paraphrasing).

Not yet. Not just yet . . . . :omg:
 
I think maybe he is in "the hole" or at least on the RPF. As far as what to say to his family, if he really is on the RPF, that is tough.

I think you have to "tell them the truth in love" - sorry to drag the old Christian thing out again. Make them aware very gently babystep by babystep - because deep down they must be gutted about it, even if they toe the party line. And I think it's one of those things they have to realise themselves after being pointed in the right direction, like a talented teacher gets you to see things.

But who knows? Maybe his mother's celebrity saved him and he was fitness boarded out. Or maybe he's working on some different post that was deemed more suitable - kind of a demotion.

It's David M's decision.

Take out his wrath on Jessica and Tommy, lose Cindy and Anne.

What would a psycho-loser do?

Enquiring minds want to know.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
<snip>

Terrorists believe that they are doing the greatest good just as we did and that the end justifies the means, just as we did.

<snip>

Hmm... I'm not happy with the Terrorist comparison either, to be honest. The people living in the GDR, who ratted their friends and family members out to the StaSi, were by no means terrorists. they were just citizens trying to stand by what they believed in.

Same goes for the border patrol officers who shot people who were trying to escape from that state. I kinda compare these officers to the people who tried to "handle" Lisa McPherson, for example.

Misguided, indoctrinated, delusional people for sure, but by no means Nazis or terrorists.

So yeah, if one wants to compare $cientology to something, the GDR would be the most appropriate I can come up with.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
This might seem hard to believe, as I have been posting here for over 2 years, but I NEVER heard of Godwin's Law until today! :duh:

As I said above, there is really no need to compare Scientology to Nazis. There are plenty of other nasty totalitarian organizations that can suffice.

OK, I'll leave it at that.

Don't forget that Hubbard IS the one who made statements about "only allowing Clears the right to procreate", and while I can't grab onto the exact quote (Veda help me please), there is also a quote where Hubbard says something about "letting them quietly die or fade away" (I am heavily paraphrasing).

Not yet. Not just yet . . . . :omg:

"only allowing Clears the right to procreate" Well, that'd be another reason to not use the Nazi comparison. Talking about it and making it part of the doctrine, is one thing, and it's sick enough to do so, but the Nazis went actually through with it. Thousands of humans have been sterilized against their will and some of them even without their knowledge.

However, now that you've dropped that Nazi comparison, I can and will peacefully rest my case.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
It's David M's decision.

Take out his wrath on Jessica and Tommy, lose Cindy and Anne.

What would a psycho-loser do?

Enquiring minds want to know.

If David M would lose Anne and Cindy over this then Tommy is a lot luckier than most Scientologists with family inside, because usually they seem to choose the cult over their loved ones. I think he would not want the fall-out from another celebrity defection, but will make life as miserable as possible for Tommy by pushing it as far as he can, and just being petty and spiteful. I don't really know.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Just to interject, I just LOVE the SP Times!!!!!!!! :happydance:

Keep it up Joe Childs and Thomas C. Tobin.

You guys rock! :thumbsup:

Keep the TRUTH about Scientology coming hard and strong.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
OK, I'll leave it at that.



"only allowing Clears the right to procreate" Well, that'd be another reason to not use the Nazi comparison. Talking about it and making it part of the doctrine, is one thing, and it's sick enough to do so, but the Nazis went actually through with it. Thousands of humans have been sterilized against their will and some of them even without their knowledge.

However, now that you've dropped that Nazi comparison, I can and will peacefully rest my case.

I wrote about sterilization being part of the "ethics handling" for Sea Org over 10 years ago. Many times people who were forced and coerced to have abortions in the Sea Org were also coerced to have their tubes tied or vasectomies as part of their liability and proof they were with the "program". I know many personally.

Here is just one thread that has a lot of links about abortions and sterilizations:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=201610&highlight=abortion+sea+org#201610
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
I wrote about sterilization being part of the "ethics handling" for Sea Org over 10 years ago. Many times people who were forced and coerced to have abortions in the Sea Org were also coerced to have their tubes tied or vasectomies as part of their liability and proof they were with the "program". I know many personally.

Here is just one thread that has a lot of links about abortions and sterilizations:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=201610&highlight=abortion+sea+org#201610

I've read a lot about forced/coerced abortions, but forced/coerced sterilizations is a new one for me. I found no direct information about that in the OCMB link, but I've bookmarked the thread and will scan it more thoroughly later. Thanks.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
"only allowing Clears the right to procreate" Well, that'd be another reason to not use the Nazi comparison. Talking about it and making it part of the doctrine, is one thing, and it's sick enough to do so, but the Nazis went actually through with it. Thousands of humans have been sterilized against their will and some of them even without their knowledge.

Hate to tell you, but North Carolina had forced sterilizations until the late 70s. And the law allowing it wasn't repealed until 2003.

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...m-which-targeted-women-young-girls-and-blacks
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Hmm... I'm not happy with the Terrorist comparison either, to be honest.

I'm not saying that Scientologists are terrorists. But I think it's important to compare the process that both of them go through,as there are similarities, some disturbing ones imo.

Some experts agree with me. Here's some excerpts from an article entitled:
"Cults, terrorist groups share chilling similarities, experts say"
http://www.cultsandterror.org/sub-file/Oregonian091101-RickRoss.htm

"There are many similarities between the way people are programmed in cults and in terror groups that can result in an act of suicide bombing," says Steve Hassan, a former member of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.

Hassan has counseled ex-cult members in Florida for 20 years and says many, including himself, would have been "ready to die for the cause if necessary."

"What I find so astonishing is that most people don't realize how influenceable all humans are," says Margaret Singer, an emeritus professor of psychology at the University of California at Berkeley.

Singer's interviews of nearly 6,000 former cult members have convinced her that groups as dissimilar as the hippy-style Rajneeshees and the suicidal Jim Jones People's Temple recruit and control members in much the same way, despite vast differences in ideology.

"They're all extended con games," Singer says, "whether it's a cult or a terrorist organization."

By the way, the site I found that particular article: www.cultsandterror.org was created by former terrorists! :coolwink:

About Us section:

"While public fear focuses on the very real threat that terrorism poses to the lives of so many people worldwide, the methodology behind this frightening phenomenon is little understood or publicised.

This site was created by former members of such terrorist groups.

The need for this site arose from the lack of background information about terrorist groups; how they recruit and maintain their members, how they train their members to perform suicide and other terrorist missions, and how they are financed.

The site is designed to act as a starting point for anyone who wishes to find out more about the way terrorists are created"
http://www.cultsandterror.org/About Us.htm
 

freethinker

Sponsor
He mentions being called from the Oak Cove by his senior so perhaps he failed to mention he went back:confused2:
I’m glad Hy is out and speaking out. However, for some reason the article omits the fact that Hy was in the SO at the FLB in the very late ‘70’s or so. :confused2:

Face :)
 

smartone

My Own Boss
There is one HUGE omitted in the "Church" response by the Tommy Davis
replacement KAREN POUW.

The actual TRUTH of the real estate scam.
Duped Parishioners think they are PURCHASING their local Org.
They are not.
It belongs to the "Church of Scientology International" who then LEASES it back to the local Church for $$$$
Every week the CSI cut which must come right off the top of their financial planning before the staff get any payroll.
(NOTE that some donors only paid hoping that local ownership would permit starving moonlighting staff to get paid better as RENT is always a big expense.)
But even though the local Church weekly revenue must pay utilities, and renovations, furnishings, and ALL expenses ~~
Church of Scientology International owns it.
It is a cash cow.

Every single "Ideal org" is a huge revenue source as they have to PAY the
MOTHER CHURCH to lease it back, after all the locals paid for it !

:ohmy: That explains why the CSI keeps building these "Ideal Orgs" and they stand empty. I did wonder what was behind that. What a con. Why am I not surprised.
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
Wow! Have you gotten to the end of the article? James R. Lewis, the scholar who's been very soft on Scn over the years, is quoted saying that an incident of Basics selling he witnessed was "really disturbing" and its supposed religious justification "a facade!"

How things change...
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
Re: New Video: Basically Obsessed

OMG, I look so angry. Truth is, I was freezing cold and sitting in that chair shivering and very tense. Oh well.

I didn't feel any anger. You seemed a little tense, but not inappropriately so. Mostly you seemed relieved to get it off your chest.
 
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