New SP Times article: Former Scientology insiders describe a world of coercion

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is a KILLER post (no pun intended)!!!

I agree wholeheartedly.

Yep! :thumbsup: And this is a killer thread…thanks a bunch all Y’all and Hy. :thumbsup:

"Not Going To Make It"

Right On, HH, Right On! :clap:

I’m not gonna go into all the gory details here but “back in the old days” when I was the ED of a Service Org Flag, “Management” sent a Telex ordering me to do something that I wasn’t about to F’n do, no way, no how. I Telex queried the order and ignored it. The Orders Query was denied so I wrote a very long, detailed Query with relevant El Ron quotes from books, tapes and Policy and ignored the order.

While my dispatch was on its way to Flag, the Orgs Flag Rep got a Telex from the issuer of the idiotic and insane order to tell me that if I didn’t immediately comply with the order they were going to see to it that I was Declared, Expelled and Debarred from the Advance Courses Forever.

I said, “Fine. Go for it. If my eternity depends upon and includes complying to insane, idiotic and destructive orders like this then I don’t want to be in it.”

The FR went ballistic and stormed out of my office.

At that time the org had all Major GDS’s in 4-6 week affluence and 2 days later finished the week with a 2nd Highest ever GI,,,the Highest Ever having been 4 weeks previous. Needless to say, the order was forgotten about, the FR got a new uniform and a bonus because of the Orgs up-stats.

Honestly, I was surprised at how I responded to what was, in my mind at the time, a credible threat. I had responded out of pure instinct, from my heart. I have never forgotten that moment to this day. Although I didn’t realize it at the time, I had drawn my line in the sand re: Scn. A line that I would spend some more years living next to, never stepped over and, eventually, stepped back and walked away from…for ever.

Scn seduces you into living a delusion about your “Future” and your “Eternity”…who and what you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna do, what you’re gonna be “able” to do, the places you’re gonna be and see. It’s all so deliriously a grand time of a future. Some folks come to the point that they will do ANYTHING, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE to protect that future---a time and a future that never will be.

Face :)
 
Last edited:

Gadfly

Crusader
Yep! :thumbsup: And this is a killer thread…thanks a bunch all Y’all and Hy. :thumbsup:

Right On, HH, Right On! :clap:

I’m not gonna go into all the gory details here but “back in the old days” when I was the ED of a Service Org Flag, “Management” sent a Telex ordering me to do something that I wasn’t about to F’n do, no way, no how. I Telex queried the order and ignored it. The Orders Query was denied so I wrote a very long, detailed Query with relevant El Ron quotes from books, tapes and Policy and ignored the order.

While my dispatch was on its way to Flag, the Orgs Flag Rep got a Telex from the issuer of the idiotic and insane order to tell me that if I didn’t immediately comply with the order they were going to see to it that I was Declared, Expelled and Debarred from the Advance Courses Forever.

Yeah, within 6 months of being in the Sea Org, as Flag Rep in a Class 4 org, I got an INSANE set of orders to implement from an "eval" done at the Flag Bureau (before there was "INT"). I refused. The FFR (Flag Rep Flag) called me and yelled for 10 minutes. I explained why I refused. Then the evaluator and Mission Ops, Alan Buchanan, called and HE yelled at me for a good 15 minutes.

I just refused to implement what I told them were stupid, invalid and really WRONG actions. I got "pulled to FOLO", Comm Eved, and had to work out of Treason. I did eventually go back to the org as FR, but I NEVER gave into agreeing with the nonsense they asserted.

When I was routing out of the Sea Org, from the FSO, the Captain FSO, Ron Norton, also threatened me with "I am going to see to it that you will NEVER get onto the Advance Courses". What a dufus he was. I shut up, kept quiet, but knew inside that he was totally full of shit. He was trying th SCARE the living shit out of me by threatening to "take away my freedom". Part of me was saying, "if THAT is FREEDOM, you can keep it".


I said, “Fine. Go for it. If my eternity depends upon and includes complying to insane, idiotic and destructive orders like this then I don’t want be in it.”

The FR went ballistic and stormed out of my office.

At that time the org had all Major GDS’s in 4-6 week affluence and 2 days later finished the week with a 2nd Highest ever GI,,,the Highest Ever having been 4 weeks previous. Needless to say, the order was forgotten about, the FR got a new uniform and a bonus because of the Orgs up-stats.

Honestly, I was surprised at how I responded to what was, in my mind at the time, a credible threat. I had responded out of pure instinct, from my heart. I have never forgotten that moment to this day. Although I didn’t realize it at the time, I had drawn my line in the sand re: Scn. A line that I would spend some more years living next to, never stepped over and, eventually, stepped back and walked away from…for ever.

Scn seduces you into living a delusion about your “Future” and your “Eternity”…who and what you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna do, what you’re gonna be “able” to do, the places you’re gonna be and see. It’s all so deliriously a grand time of a future. Some folks come to the point that they will do ANYTHING, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE to protect that future---a time and a future that never will be.

Face :)

Mine above in BOLD.

This last paragraph is just so spot on Face:

Scn seduces you into living a delusion about your “Future” and your “Eternity”…who and what you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna do, what you’re gonna be “able” to do, the places you’re gonna be and see. It’s all so deliriously a grand time of a future. Some folks come to the point that they will do ANYTHING, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE to protect that future --- a time and a future that never will be.

It is almost ALL in the imagination. Hubbard tricks people into confusing reality and possibilities with their own highly over-active imaginations. Without a sort of wild fantasizing capability, one cannot really get suckered into Scientology. One must agree with a great many non-existant and even non-realistic "possible ideal futures" to go along for the Scn ride.
 

Sindy

Crusader
The SP Times article on Scientology's "MONEY MACHINE" is really superb. I am excited to read the upcoming chapters on crush regging for Basic Books and other scams.

What the SP Times has not yet focused on is the core of the Money Machine, which is the concept used by the cult to terrorize its victims into paying exorbitant sums. That concept has always been:

"Not Going To Make It"

It is inherent in the dissemination formula. Getting the Scientologist into the mindset of "Ruin" and "Fear of Worsening" is the technique.

A well-conditioned Scientologist has a perpetual "Fear of Worsening" embedded in their mind with constant fears about falling further down the ruinous dwindling cycle or losing their eternity. They do not have to be put thru the rigors of a "Dissem Formula" --they area already ready to borrow themselves into oblivion at the slightest reminder by a registrar or ethics officer.

Non Scientologists have no idea whatsoever about this psychological torture trick played upon Scientologists. I hope the SP Times picks it up in the episodes to follow. Without understanding WHY Scientologists sacrifice themselves, a wog is left wondering what the hell could possibly be going on that Scientologists are so blind and stupid.

Fear is a powerful motivating force that lies at center stage for Scientology's well-oiled money machine.

There is something else quite horrifically ironic about this "Not Going To Make It" treachery. Scientology proudly promotes Clear and OT III and OT V and even OT VII as the cure for eternal happiness.

For example, going "Clear" is held up as the cure-all that will bestow health and happiness for the rest of ones life. But...

SCIENTOLOGY CAREFULLY AND METICULOUSLY HIDES THE FACT THAT
A CLEAR IS "NOT GOING TO MAKE IT" AND WILL "LOSE THEIR ETERNITY"
IF THEY DON'T SPEND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS MORE.

The deception is profound.

On one hand, Scientology celebrates Dianetics and Clear with events and multi-million dollar promotions worldwide about the majesty of Clear. People are standing on their feet cheering for Ron Hubbard's miraculous discovery of Clear because a Clear is sublimely free and happy. On the other hand, Scientology is secretly terrorizing its Clears in closed registration rooms, grimly advising them that their life is in ruin, should they fail or refuse to drain all their financial resources and promptly hand it over to Scientology.

The Clear's success story is used with abandon to excite wogs and lower-level Scientologists to pay hundreds of millions of dollars. But when Scientology is speaking directly to that very same Clear, they are telling him what dreadfully awful case shape they are in and how they will soon perish unless they pay significantly more.

Scientology is entirely and relentlessly duplicitous. Actually, Hubbard invented a technical term that better describes it.

One-One (1.1)

This exact thing did come up in my interview. Hopefully, it will be shown or printed. I believe it will in another part of this series.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Probably. :)

Hy truly believed in the product he was selling and truly believed that it actually delivered all that it promised.

I liked him then and appreciate his speaking out so frankly now.

Jesus Christ on a Cross, why do people use this notion of "he believed in what he was doing" as some index that MAKES IT BE OKAY????!!!!! :confused2:

<snip...>
I think you imagined the part where "people" considered "(that) makes it all OK".

What I said above was in direct answer to the lovely Anonomog's question, "Am I being overly critical?" and was in reference to that post where Anonomog seemed to suggest that Hy was being deceitful in selling scientology. (see post#23).

Hy is/was a True Believer.

I'm not suggesting that he is blameless, of course, if he did reprehensible things to others but I've never heard anyone state such. My experience of him is that he genuinely thought he was helping me. I don't blame him for anything he did in his dealings with me. :)
 

jenni with an eye

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hy truly believed in the product he was selling and truly believed that it actually delivered all that it promised.

I liked him then and appreciate his speaking out so frankly now.

Jesus Christ on a Cross, why do people use this notion of "he believed in what he was doing as some index that MAKES IT BE OKAY????!!!!! :confused2:


:wtf:

I don't think anyone is suggesting or even thinks that. :whistling:

Some Nazis TRULY BELIEVED that they were HELPING to "bring about a glorious new era for Mankind" by eradicating the "lower forms of genetic slime and scum".

:omg: I really think that this 'analogy' is extremely disrespectful to both Hy and his family. :angry:




Personally, I like Hy and am really glad to see him speak out and look so much happier.

I hope Hy gets every opportunity to really enjoy his new found freedom. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: New Video: Basically Obsessed


Nice one, mate - you came across really well, Synthia:thumbsup:

Tick, tock, Wee Davey Boy - you cancerous little gnome.:roflmao:

Your days are numbered as more and more of the truth gets out about Your scamming cult - any day now.:yes:

The only stat You are getting "straight up and vertical" is number of enemies made on a daily basis.:hysterical:

You can drown in that bottle but You can't hide.:dieslaughing:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Re: New Video: Basically Obsessed

Nice one, mate - you came across really well, Synthia:thumbsup:

Just watch Synthia's interview

Synthia you were talking with no hesitation - a to b - direct to the point of what it is.
Well done.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
. . . naughty, I know. Please give the SP Times some click love too. Note, the initial image on the video still is NOT Synthia ; )


[video=youtube;TER4h8_XuCw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TER4h8_XuCw&feature=channel_video_title[/video]​
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
Man, there is nothing like a good old-fashioned brawl in the comments section of a Scientology article. And they've brought out the all-stars for this series!
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Good to see not everyone got completely sucked into the money vortex - but it took a death threat to do so . . .

[video=youtube;LS6B5Q50RKY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS6B5Q50RKY[/video]​

. . . what a "religion'!


(Do we need a thread merge? )
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: New Video: Basically Obsessed

OMG, I look so angry. Truth is, I was freezing cold and sitting in that chair shivering and very tense. Oh well.

Syn-girl...that reminds me of comment John Lennon made about his world-renowned songs. He said he was not satisfied with 1 of them! He could hear imperfections or things he so badly wished he could change about all those masterpieces.

GIRL!!! You did so great. If you were cold and shivering, please request your next interview be done in a walk-in freezer. It's working, baby, it's working!

Something else hit me after watching it. I asked myself: "How the hell did Scientology turn such a wonderful spokesman, supporter and advocate as yourself into such a eloquent, focused and formidable enemy?"

Then it hit me about this deranged business of the Church of Scientology "declaring" people to be SP. Particularly its most intelligent, creative, productive & loyal members.

It's not Scientology declaring people....it's Scientology committing suicide.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Yep! :thumbsup: And this is a killer thread…thanks a bunch all Y’all and Hy. :thumbsup:



Right On, HH, Right On! :clap:

I’m not gonna go into all the gory details here but “back in the old days” when I was the ED of a Service Org Flag, “Management” sent a Telex ordering me to do something that I wasn’t about to F’n do, no way, no how. I Telex queried the order and ignored it. The Orders Query was denied so I wrote a very long, detailed Query with relevant El Ron quotes from books, tapes and Policy and ignored the order.

While my dispatch was on its way to Flag, the Orgs Flag Rep got a Telex from the issuer of the idiotic and insane order to tell me that if I didn’t immediately comply with the order they were going to see to it that I was Declared, Expelled and Debarred from the Advance Courses Forever.

I said, “Fine. Go for it. If my eternity depends upon and includes complying to insane, idiotic and destructive orders like this then I don’t want to be in it.”

The FR went ballistic and stormed out of my office.

At that time the org had all Major GDS’s in 4-6 week affluence and 2 days later finished the week with a 2nd Highest ever GI,,,the Highest Ever having been 4 weeks previous. Needless to say, the order was forgotten about, the FR got a new uniform and a bonus because of the Orgs up-stats.

Honestly, I was surprised at how I responded to what was, in my mind at the time, a credible threat. I had responded out of pure instinct, from my heart. I have never forgotten that moment to this day. Although I didn’t realize it at the time, I had drawn my line in the sand re: Scn. A line that I would spend some more years living next to, never stepped over and, eventually, stepped back and walked away from…for ever.

Scn seduces you into living a delusion about your “Future” and your “Eternity”…who and what you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna do, what you’re gonna be “able” to do, the places you’re gonna be and see. It’s all so deliriously a grand time of a future. Some folks come to the point that they will do ANYTHING, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE to protect that future---a time and a future that never will be.

Face :)


Amazing story.

The last paragraph is even more amazing.

How crazy does Scientology make people? Your last paragraph captures the madness of it so well.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I like very much that he speaks clearly about the true fact
that people are litterally

locked into the room (depending of your reputation to resist - it could be easilly from 2 to 4 people) and then ordered to write a check or give your credit cards.
If you refused - you are then threatened with wathever they know will hit something
 

Sindy

Crusader
Re: New Video: Basically Obsessed

Syn-girl...that reminds me of comment John Lennon made about his world-renowned songs. He said he was not satisfied with 1 of them! He could hear imperfections or things he so badly wished he could change about all those masterpieces.

GIRL!!! You did so great. If you were cold and shivering, please request your next interview be done in a walk-in freezer. It's working, baby, it's working!

Something else hit me after watching it. I asked myself: "How the hell did Scientology turn such a wonderful spokesman, supporter and advocate as yourself into such a eloquent, focused and formidable enemy?"

Then it hit me about this deranged business of the Church of Scientology "declaring" people to be SP. Particularly its most intelligent, creative, productive & loyal members.

It's not Scientology declaring people....it's Scientology committing suicide.

Yes, but think how many really smart, articulate people have been screaming from the rooftops for years, and years. I hope the end is nigh and that this might make an impact.

I wish I had heard the drums beating long before I woke up just a year and 1/2 ago.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Excellent video Synthia, well done to you, Luis and the SP Times. :clapping:

Oooo, now in the comments section the OSA Bots are saying that I have a long history of adultery. That's just libelous. I knew this was coming but that's just hilarious. Too bad ya can't prove who these sock puppet dudes are.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Oooo, now in the comments section the OSA Bots are saying that I have a long history of adultery. That's just libelous. I knew this was coming but that's just hilarious. Too bad ya can't prove who these sock puppet dudes are.

And, even if you "were guilty of adultery", how does that change the TRUTH that you spoke about Scientology? :confused2:

There is something I never understood about Scientology tactics. How does getting someone to be viewed as as any sort of "criminal" change the truthfulness or legitimacy about what they have stated about the flaws and faults of Scientology? Plus, by now, any person who reads anything on the Internet should know that Scientology lies about ANY person who criticizes them, and Scn tries to portray them as "nasty criminals" in some flimsy attempt to get others to "not pay attention to the accurate & honest words of the critic". Scientology is just SO TRANSPARENT. They are SUCH IMBECILES. And, the world sees that more and more clearly as each new day passes. tick -tock

Note: If there is no truth to the accusations, too bad there isn't a way to trace WHO posted the libelous statements and SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. OSA tactics back at them! Overwhelming lawsuits against THEM! :thumbsup:
 
Top