New SP Times article: Former Scientology insiders describe a world of coercion

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great vid of Luis and Synthia. I think you can tell a lot about a cult by the insults it chooses to use. They claim people like Synthia are "adulterers" -- jeeze, CoS, get into the 21st century, willya, we don't have those any more! -- when in fact they are the ones who are demented and irrational on the subject of sex. They say "everybody" lies about Scientology when in fact CoS officials generally lie through their teeth in their denials of criticisms.

Apostates. Adulterers. Scriptures. Where do they get this creaky language from, anyway --- 1956?
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
I've got to stay away from that place. It is definitely not good for my blood pressure! Too much troll feeding. Sigh.

Ha, I know what you mean. Part of me does feel like I'm just feeding the trolls when I respond, but, on the other hand,

a) I hate to see some of that stuff go unchallenged, especially the personal attacks.

b) I think we're in a position to call bullshit on some claims that otherwise onlookers might think were valid.

c) Engaging with people in a challenging but (hopefully) not nasty way might shake them (or other readers) up a bit.

d) Neutral parties who look at the comments might get a sense of our position that wouldn't necessarily be available in the article. They'll also get a good look at how Scientology responds to criticism. We may look strident, but they look crazy and sinister.

So I'm conflicted. What tips the scales for me is that it's a hell of a lot of fun. :)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
There is no truth to that and I would love to do that. They just think nothing of throwing out total character assassination lies like that...have no compunction at all. I asked the person to name names..let's go. I mean, they can't.

I would think a person with any kind of conscience at all would feel bad about telling lies after awhile but, I bet what happens is that the OSA Bots are told the lies by people who really don't care about lying and so they pass it on, not thinking they are lying.

It's not just adultery, it's "a long history" of adultery! It really is laughable. If that's true, why did they have me on staff. :laugh:


Syn, I asked some Scientologists about those bizarre accusations...

"If Ron were here none of this would have happened." (- An Indie Scientologist-)

"We are not claiming that she is an adulteress, even though we have more than ample proof of it and could certainly do so based on her confidential pc folders--which we have a sacred duty to keep secret." (- A Scientologist -)

"Ron never used the term 'adulteress' and it is impossible that he ever told these people to use that word because Ron has been dead for 25 years." (- Karen Pouw -)


Actually it IS true that Ron were here none of this "adulteress" business would have ever happened. Because faced with a troublesome whistleblower (his wife Sara) here is what he DID do in a letter that he wrote to the FBI:

* Accused Sara of being a "Communist spy".

* Accused her father of being a "criminal".

* Accused her sister of being "insane".

* Accused Sara of being "sexually promiscuous".

Ya see? Ron would never use the word adulteress.

So, let's not besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard.

Those lying scumbag trolls throwing bad words at you Syn have nothing to do with Ron The Humanitarian. So.....

Stop moping, donate some Basic sets to make up the damage and get on your next Bridge level!
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Ha, I know what you mean. Part of me does feel like I'm just feeding the trolls when I respond, but, on the other hand,

a) I hate to see some of that stuff go unchallenged, especially the personal attacks.

b) I think we're in a position to call bullshit on some claims that otherwise onlookers might think were valid.

c) Engaging with people in a challenging but (hopefully) not nasty way might shake them (or other readers) up a bit.

d) Neutral parties who look at the comments might get a sense of our position that wouldn't necessarily be available in the article. They'll also get a good look at how Scientology responds to criticism. We may look strident, but they look crazy and sinister.

So I'm conflicted. What tips the scales for me is that it's a hell of a lot of fun. :)

Hmmm... I think I'm starting to look as bad as the Scientologists!
 

Veda

Sponsor

TG1

Angelic Poster
I am loving the latest St. Pete Times articles, although I haven't finished reading / viewing them all.

As others have suggested, the BEST things about these latest articles are the idiotic, bizarre, self-incriminating comments by the Co$ bots.

Also, I dunno who's giving the cult public relations advice, but they're clearly the worst PR advisors in the world. :thumbsup:

TG1
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I am loving the latest St. Pete Times articles, although I haven't finished reading / viewing them all.

As others have suggested, the BEST things about these latest articles are the idiotic, bizarre, self-incriminating comments by the Co$ bots.

Also, I dunno who's giving the cult public relations advice, but they're clearly the worst PR advisors in the world. :thumbsup:

TG1

The problem with being a PR person for the CofS is that it continues to broadly do despicable things on a routine basis in the internet age. In that climate no PR person has a chance. The only tenable PR line is yes we did it, we're sorry, we're making amends, we won't do it again and *have it be true* (won't happen, of course).

Paul
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
The problem with being a PR person for the CofS is that it continues to broadly do despicable things on a routine basis in the internet age. In that climate no PR person has a chance. The only tenable PR line is yes we did it, we're sorry, we're making amends, we won't do it again and *have it be true* (won't happen, of course).

Paul
Kind'a weird that they don't know that.. Says so in Hubbard's infamous 'Condition Formulas' doesn't it? - Except, scientologists seem to think that only applies for their 'condition' with respect to their 'Church'...

:melodramatic:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Kind'a weird that they don't know that.. Says so in Hubbard's infamous 'Condition Formulas' doesn't it? - Except, scientologists seem to think that only applies for their 'condition' with respect to their 'Church'...

:melodramatic:

To "do amends", one has to first have the perspective that one has "wronged" another person or group. The Church of Scientology is totally incapable of accepting or adopting such a viewpoint. It is impossible based on Hubbard's policies, and on the standard behavior of the Church going back many years.

Rule Number One: Always and only do what helps and assists Scientology or Hubbard.

Rule Number Two: Scientology (Hubbard) is ALWAYS "right". It/he can do no wrong, as long as the actions are aimed at "protecting and expanding the Church or Rons legacy".

These Scio morons believe that anything that is acting "against" Scientology or Hubbard "must be an evil suppressive person". They accept that as gospel. They also accept Hubbard's model of reality that asserts "SPs have no rights and can be lied to, cheated, and UTTERLY DESTROYED". And, they FOLLOW those ideas exactly.

Scientology will NEVER admit any wrong doing to any person or group. Just as admitting any wrong doing was impossible for Hubbard, it is impossible for the Church of Scientology. The notion does not exist anywhere in the enitre subject. The notion is alien to Scientology and the Scientologist. They are stupidly solid in that regard. Their model of reality does not allow for the notion that a person could be against some aspect of Scientology and NOT be a "bad person". They have severe fixed ideas in that regard (as indoctrinated by Hubbard's system).

Of course, if they ever did finally acknowledge "guilt", they would probably have to empty all of their bank accounts and sell all their properties to "make sufficient amends" to all those they have wronged over the past 50 or so years. THAT will never happen.

It is a fight to the end. They will never give up. They will never admit ANY wrong doing. Even when Miscavige is living in a hobo box made out of cardboard and hated by the world, he will still, with his last breathe, in the full spirit of Ron, explain, "I am right, and you're not". :ohmy:

Lawd, for all Hubbard's "theory" and "tech" on Ser Facs (service fascimile*), it always amazed me how filled with them were Hubbard and the Scientology organization he created. Wasn't Grade IV involved with the notion of "removing Ser Facs", and addressing "the computation the PC uses to be right"? Scientology has MANY such computations.

Scientology is right because "we have the only workable tech".

Scientology is right because "only Scientology can salvage this sector".

Scientology is right because "we are the most ethical beings on the planet".

Scientology is right because "we are clearing the planet".

Scientology is right because "we care".

Scientology is right because "we work long and hard to address and handle Man's many problems".

Scientology is right because "Ron says so".

Scientology is right because "we can create Clears and OTs".

Scientology is right because "management tells me so".

Scientology is right because "if we don't succeed now we may never again have another chance".

Scientology is right because "it safegaurds your eternity".


WOW! I just had a cognition. Participation with Scientology CREATES and INSTILLS an entire new set of "Ser Facs" into the Scientology member. It is best, from a Scientology perspective, to complete Grade IV, and to be rid of all "competing Ser Facs", so that ONLY Scientology Ser Facs remain to dictate one's behavior.

Hip - hip - hooray! :happydance:

* Service Fascimle - "that computation generated by the preclear (not the bank) to make self right and others wrong, to dominate or escape domination and enhance own survival and injure that of others." (HCOB 1 Sept 63)

Read the above definition and then give MANY examples how Scientology does exactly that.

Once again we have more contradictions in Scientology. Hubbard talks about and provides "theory" and "tech" to address and handle "ser facs", but then he INSTALLS many more of his own design into the minds of the Scientology adherents. In a quite real sense, Hubbard aims to address and handle your unique "aberrations" so that he can work with a "clean slate", and then INSTALL HIS OWN SPECIAL PROGRAMMING INTO YOU!

In Scientology one doesn't get rid of aberrations entirely (assuming for a moment that it could do so by using the "tech"). One switches them with new "and improved" aberrations of Hubbard's design.
 
Last edited:

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Oooo, now in the comments section the OSA Bots are saying that I have a long history of adultery. That's just libelous. I knew this was coming but that's just hilarious. Too bad ya can't prove who these sock puppet dudes are.


That's one of the things that is so silly about their blind adherence to the tech even when it isn't working. You'd think they'd be backing down on that "dead agent" stuff after the Southpark "flap" ;) . . . instead they just keep doing the exact things that are getting them in trouble and "ARC breaking the field". Everyone knows they do this, and people are angered by it, but they continue because LRH said "the way out is the way through" and "the tech always works" "SP's can be lied about. . ." so they follow without even being able to see where they're headed . . .like lemmings walking over a cliff.
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great vid of Luis and Synthia.:thumbsup:

Loving the SP Times too :thumbsup:

As for the use of the word 'adultery'. OSA Oz also sprewed that line out about OEO and me when responding to our 4 Corners program. It's bizarre for sure but the CoS is very much stuck in a time warp and still views the world through 1950's eyes.

I'm surprised that they don't use the word 'infidel' in some of its responses too :biggrin:

Perhaps the CoS really think that using such words as apostates, adulterers etc they sound more like a religion then a cult :dieslaughing: Christ who know .... ooops now I'm taking the Lords name in vain....

Although the SO seem to think it's OK for SO members to be married and divorced multiple times; or marry very young which lasts only a couple of months before calling a 'that's it' .... perhaps they think it's a drill .... I wonder how the member's extended family view this. I've had comments from a family about when an SO member starts spruiking morals and being self righteous and the family members says after.... 'well who's on their 3rd marriage' ... it's kinda eyebrow raising :duh:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mine above in BOLD.

This last paragraph is just so spot on Face:

Scn seduces you into living a delusion about your “Future” and your “Eternity”…who and what you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna do, what you’re gonna be “able” to do, the places you’re gonna be and see. It’s all so deliriously a grand time of a future. Some folks come to the point that they will do ANYTHING, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE to protect that future --- a time and a future that never will be.

It is almost ALL in the imagination. Hubbard tricks people into confusing reality and possibilities with their own highly over-active imaginations. Without a sort of wild fantasizing capability, one cannot really get suckered into Scientology. One must agree with a great many non-existant and even non-realistic "possible ideal futures" to go along for the Scn ride.

Yes!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Man, Gadfly...whatta story. :yes::yes: Thanks. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Scn whipsaws your attention between imagined pasts and futures so that you cannot see the actual present. :coolwink:

Face :)
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf

Sexual harassment includes many things...
· Actual or attempted rape or sexual assault.
· Unwanted pressure for sexual favors.
· Unwanted deliberate touching, leaning over, cornering, or pinching.
· Unwanted sexual looks or gestures.
· Unwanted letters, telephone calls, or materials of a sexual nature.
· Unwanted pressure for dates.
· Unwanted sexual teasing, jokes, remarks, or questions.
· Referring to an adult as a girl, hunk, doll, babe, or honey.
· Whistling at someone.
· Cat calls.
· Sexual comments.
· Turning work discussions to sexual topics.
· Sexual innuendos or stories.
· Asking about sexual fantasies, preferences, or history.
· Personal questions about social or sexual life.
· Sexual comments about a person's clothing, anatomy, or looks.
· Kissing sounds, howling, and smacking lips.
· Telling lies or spreading rumors about a person's personal sex life.
· Neck massage.
· Touching an employee's clothing, hair, or body.
· Giving personal gifts.
· Hanging around a person.
· Hugging, kissing, patting, or stroking.
· Touching or rubbing oneself sexually around another person.
· Standing close or brushing up against a person.
· Looking a person up and down (elevator eyes).
· Staring at someone.
· Sexually suggestive signals.
· Facial expressions, winking, throwing kisses, or licking lips.
· Making sexual gestures with hands or through body movements.

The Church of Scientology: sexually harassing critics for... well, at least since they spread sexual lies about Paulette Cooper.
 

Sindy

Crusader
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf



The Church of Scientology: sexually harassing critics for... well, at least since they spread sexual lies about Paulette Cooper.

Great find and so true. Thanks Purple Rain. They have nothing left but character assassination. They aren't even pretending PR anymore. It's all force.

Each successive PR person just gets more and more clobbered. Maybe some used to fall for the tactics but everyone is hip to their ridiculous strategies now.

I believe we are seeing the last dying breaths of a mortally wounded beast. Who, in their right mind, would get into Scientology now?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Great vid of Luis and Synthia.:thumbsup:

Loving the SP Times too :thumbsup:

As for the use of the word 'adultery'. OSA Oz also sprewed that line out about OEO and me when responding to our 4 Corners program. It's bizarre for sure but the CoS is very much stuck in a time warp and still views the world through 1950's eyes.

I'm surprised that they don't use the word 'infidel' in some of its responses too :biggrin:

Perhaps the CoS really think that using such words as apostates, adulterers etc they sound more like a religion then a cult :dieslaughing: Christ who know .... ooops now I'm taking the Lords name in vain....

Although the SO seem to think it's OK for SO members to be married and divorced multiple times; or marry very young which lasts only a couple of months before calling a 'that's it' .... perhaps they think it's a drill .... I wonder how the member's extended family view this. I've had comments from a family about when an SO member starts spruiking morals and being self righteous and the family members says after.... 'well who's on their 3rd marriage' ... it's kinda eyebrow raising :duh:

Well, Hubbard instructed in his confidential 'Battle Tactics' that: "Standard wartime propaganda is what one is doing. Know the mores of your public opinion, what they hate. That's the enemy. What they love. That's you."

Hubbard used his own 'Propaganda Tech' on others, including his own followers, to such an extent, that quoting his comments in lectures (and assorted inspirational writings to Scientologists) can be confusing to some who haven't decoded "trickster" Hubbard's methods. During the 1950s and 1960s, the "public" "hated" communists, so Hubbard made a point of being vehemently and publicly anti-communist, and sought to identify his perceived enemies as communists or communist sympathizers.

However, Hubbard could vary his approach if it seemed advantageous to do so. He even briefly instructed that Scientology be identified as anti-Capitalist.

In a 6 October 1965 (broadly circulated) 'Executive Letter' Hubbard announced, "McCarthyism has many faces. It is still abroad today."

And in another (non public) issue, 'Enquiry Rumor UK' of 9 February 1966, Hubbard (privately) explained, regarding a pending Enquiry in Britain:

"The news that some Lord is going to ask a question in the House as to 'why the Health Minister here does not conduct an Enquiry into Scientology like in Melbourne'...

"Planning would be if any more is heard of this:

"Get a detective on that Lord's past to unearth the tidbits. They're there.

"...We refuse to discuss or describe Scientology. As near as we come is, 'Well, Scientology isn't like psychiatry. In psychiatry they think adultery is a cure for ---' You get it. Curve every answer with answers that make lurid press to psychiatry's cost. Papers by policy want only Blood and Sex - so give them psychiatry's and they'll print it, Further, couple the words psychiatry with Capitalism - allege that psychiatry is the Capitalist's tool. A Conservative opened the attack in the UK and found the Press beating the drum for us."


When this approach did not prove effective, Hubbard quickly resumed his prior long standing tactic of calling his enemies "communists."

Then, by 1971, with the USA Vietnam war becoming increasing unpopular, and Scientology's membership, and potential membership, becoming younger, Hubbard switched to calling his enemies fascists and Nazis.

Some more from the (broadly circulated) 'Executive Letter' of 6 October 1965:

"In 1942, as a senior US Naval officer in Northern Australia by fluke of fate, I helped save them from the Japanese."

And from a 17 February 1969 'Information Letter' apparently written especially for Scientologists in Australia and New Zealand:

"Remember I know Anzo. I once had a big share in saving its bacon from Japan. Note please that a small Jap force could have taken the lot and didn't. A handful of us, months before the coming of US troops, worked like mad to balk the Japs and change their minds. So I know exactly how real the threat is [from what Hubbard called the 'Asiatic hordes' to the north]..."

The "button" of "lurid" probably still "works," and "sex and blood" probably still "work," but "adultery" seems a bit out of date.

Tech is out in Orgs!
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Great find and so true. Thanks Purple Rain. They have nothing left but character assassination. They aren't even pretending PR anymore. It's all force.

Each successive PR person just gets more and more clobbered. Maybe some used to fall for the tactics but everyone is hip to their ridiculous strategies now.

I believe we are seeing the last dying breaths of a mortally wounded beast. Who, in their right mind, would get into Scientology now?

Agreed, Synthia.

The whole basic books story would actually be quite funny if it wasn't attached to such a sorry human cost. I mean, it's just crazy... insane.

It's like it should be in some episode of I Love Lucy... some wacky, impossible situation that only Lucy could get herself into: frantically trying to figure out what to do with all the books she's been stuck with and hide them from Ricky.

On the bright side, this latest incarnation of the basics has been probably the most effective method of busting people free from the cult that I've witnessed. The sheer beauty of it is that they're doing it all by themselves!

It's also interesting to watch a group so blatantly manifest the psychosis of a leader as the individuals try and rationalise the cognitive dissonance - make sense of the nonsense - like living in that Alice in Wonderland world Arnie was talking about.
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Good work on the video, Synthia!
Everyone was good.
I LOVE the SP Times!!


I am still amazed Hy Levy has left. And sooo happy for him.
 
Top