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New SP Times article: Former Scientology insiders describe a world of coercion

looker

Patron Meritorious
Kingsley or Clay?

Clay Primrose during his take over of Stevens Creek from Kinsley Wimbush. Once Clay was feeling his ego bloat the Reg pressure escalated.

One time in drug rundown session. Clay Primrose was in session the next auditing room. I think he was on NOTS er summin. He was being audited by some auditor. I heard him yelling/screaming at the auditor and then the cans hit the wall with a bang! then a lot of shouting. I thought Clay may have blown a fuse went Psychotic and was beating the Auditor, there was so much noise. This ruckus enterubulated me and my auditor so bad We almost ended session. I don't remember maybe we did.

I wanted so bad just to get up and walk out and transfer up to Palo Alto. I even asked if I could but I was told I could not transfer services or Accounts to another mission only to a higher ORG.

Its a good thing I had some good fun friends on course with me during this insane period. Friends were the only thing that kept me coming back.

At One point there was a chick that was brought in as a course supervisor. She would go out into the lobby and physically shoved "body Routed" them into the course room. She shoved me once And I told her that was the LAST time she would do that. The shoving thing was condoned by Clay and thought funny by him, until people started blowing. She was gone in 2 weeks.
 

Moosejewels

Patron Meritorious
Its evil to coerce someone into mistrusting their own thoughts and identity. It turns them into a dependant slave. Which after all, is the whole idea behind Scientology management and the Mystery Sandwich AKA "the Bridge".

Oh my, Looker. You said a whole bunch right there ! ^^^^

I remember the night that I began to again trust
my own thoughts and identity. It was the true turning
point in my journey out of scientology ! :thumbsup:
 

Moosejewels

Patron Meritorious
Clay Primrose during his take over of Stevens Creek from Kinsley Wimbush. Once Clay was feeling his ego bloat the Reg pressure escalated.

One time in drug rundown session. Clay Primrose was in session the next auditing room. I think he was on NOTS er summin. He was being audited by some auditor. I heard him yelling/screaming at the auditor and then the cans hit the wall with a bang! then a lot of shouting. I thought Clay may have blown a fuse went Psychotic and was beating the Auditor, there was so much noise. This ruckus enterubulated me and my auditor so bad We almost ended session. I don't remember maybe we did.

I wanted so bad just to get up and walk out and transfer up to Palo Alto. I even asked if I could but I was told I could not transfer services or Accounts to another mission only to a higher ORG.

Its a good thing I had some good fun friends on course with me during this insane period. Friends were the only thing that kept me coming back.

At One point there was a chick that was brought in as a course supervisor. She would go out into the lobby and physically shoved "body Routed" them into the course room. She shoved me once And I told her that was the LAST time she would do that. The shoving thing was condoned by Clay and thought funny by him, until people started blowing. She was gone in 2 weeks.

:roflmao:

I love your example of shoving as body routing.

I recall an incident towards the end of my scientology days after an ethics cycle in which I was told that my decision to pay off some bills and debt was wrong. "The money should have gone toward the purchase of as many intensives as possible".
I did not agree, and told the ethics officer so. After several threats concerning the negative effects such an attitude would have on my eternal future, the meeting ended. I was departing the org when a staffer attempted to "body route" me back into the org. Every time she "body routed" me (aka shoved), it had the effect of bouncing her right back in the direction from which she shoved. Action - reaction. It was so funny she and I went into hysterics. However, I held my course and continued on my way.

Your body routing reference brought this memory back to me and I felt like sharing
the humor of it.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
:roflmao:

I love your example of shoving as body routing.

I recall an incident towards the end of my scientology days after an ethics cycle in which I was told that my decision to pay off some bills and debt was wrong. "The money should have gone toward the purchase of as many intensives as possible".
I did not agree, and told the ethics officer so. After several threats concerning the negative effects such an attitude would have on my eternal future, the meeting ended. I was departing the org when a staffer attempted to "body route" me back into the org. Every time she "body routed" me (aka shoved), it had the effect of bouncing her right back in the direction from which she shoved. Action - reaction. It was so funny she and I went into hysterics. However, I held my course and continued on my way.

Your body routing reference brought this memory back to me and I felt like sharing
the humor of it.

What a bunch of complete tools. I don't know how any of us ever took this stuff seriously.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
:lol: I'm currently in the deep embarrassment phase myself.


It gets better, as you cycle down the dwindling spiral (eventually).

Know To Blow Scale

Knowing that Scientology works.

ObKnowsing outpoints.

Knowticing that something is terribly wrong with Scientology.

"Know Way!"

Knowing how to Blow

"Know Shit, they did that?!" (reading the internet)

Deep embarrassment phase ("line cringing")

Wondering if meter shards would make a good demo kit.

Conscious effort to not use the english words affinity, reality or communication.

Failure to induce amnesia about "the scientology years".

Using pages from DMSHM and old LRH photos as birdcage liner.

Posting on ESMB.

Laughing at dedicating ones life to a sociopathic red-haired liar with rotting teeth.

Knowing who you are not and interested in finding out who you can blow off the bridge.
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The basis of the coercion and Hard Sell

After the unconscionable way they firestormed the civilians in Dresden I doubt that respect figured into their planning at all.

Paul

I agree with you about Dresden Paul! My brother, Clarence Rockaway, was in Dresden for an extended stay around 1961 and became very friendly with a family who had lived through the Dresden bomblings in February, 1945.

What the allies did was completely unconscionable and was a war crime of great magnitude. After the first wave of bombing by the British (I believe at night), many civilians tried to find relief from the fire storm going on by seeking haven in a large lake in the center of the city. The next day, the American's launched the second phase of the attack. Not only did they bomb the already destroyed city but they straffed the populace in the lake, just attempting to murder them for no good cause. Finally, the British attacked again the second night.

Dresden was totally destroyed, though it had many historic buildings and the death toll was greater than that from either of the two Atomic Bomb drops on Japanese cities.

The odd thing that is puzzling and really makes this a war crime is the fact that Dresden was not a center of war production. No munititions to speak of were being manufactured there. The City had never been bombed throughout the entire war because of the lack of strategic importance and arms manufacture. The population, three or four hundred thousand pre war, had risen to over a million by February, 1945.

People were flocking to Dresden to sit out the end of WWII, knowing the war would be over in a matter of weeks by that late date. It was assummed to be one of the safest places in Germany to sit out the war.

It appears that the decision to bomb it was taken by the British to avenge the damage done to Coventry, England in 1940 and also the V1 and V2 rocket attacks on England in late 1944 and early 1945. The V1 and V2 were called Vengeance weapons by the Nazi's and now the British wanted some vengeance of their own. Also, Dresden was noted for the fine porcelain and "china" (Dresden Ware) and the British did not want Dresden to challenge their porcelian industry in the post WWII world.

Much to my shame, as an American, the US Air Force seemed more than happy to go along and contribute to the attack. Why they ordered a "turkey shoot" on the Dresden civilian population, seeking refuge in the lake in the park in the center of the city, I will never understand!

I am not sure why the Cathedral in Ulm was spared. Perhaps, the Catholic Church made a successful appeal to the allies to spare destroying it.
Lakey
 

Div6

Crusader
"Terror Bombing" was a strategy endorsed by Churchill, and very much a part of Arthur "Bomber" Harris's tactics (area bombing). Cologne was the first city to be mega-bombed (1000 planes, only 40 lost) in 1942. These were followed by massive raids against Hamburg and Berlin, and culminated in the Dresden raids.
Part of the calculus re: the Dresden raid was that the city was undefended, and the population had swollen due the to advances of the Red Army. These tactics were initially supported by Churchill, however, by 1945, Churchill had stated the following:

"It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, should be reviewed. Otherwise, we shall come into control of an utterly ruined land."


Apparently the decision to go forward with the raids rested with Bomber Command, and "Bomber" Harris. In his memoirs, he voiced the following justification:
"In spite of all that happened at Hamburg*, bombing proved a comparatively humane method. For one thing, it saved the youth of this country and of our allies from being mown down by the military as it was in the war of 1914-1918."

This was a similar justification to that voiced by the Americans re: the dropping of the atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, saving potentially up to 5 million allied lives if a full scale invasion of the Japanese islands were pursued

His Wing Commander (Harry Weldon) offered the following observation:
So therefore, it is not a question of *ethics* at all! War is *not* the opposite of *peace*, nor is it a corollary of it! War is a *complete breakdown* in civilization, so it shouldn't have "ethics" thrust upon it. Because that way lies danger; that way, *war becomes acceptable!* The means of death and destruction are immaterial, war was always war, the only *difference* today is the *scale* of it! So, when this war is finally over, the world should accept that there is no limit; there are no "Hague Rules of Combat" anymore! The worse war is, the more *savage* it becomes! When people *understand* this, and stop trying to *limit* it, then perhaps, we shall achieve *lasting peace!*
.

Nasty business war. I knew several parents of friends who flew that mission over Dresden. They were scarred and broken humans from the experience.


*Bombing of Hamburg (Operation Gomorrah): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War_II
 

Sindy

Crusader
It gets better, as you cycle down the dwindling spiral (eventually).

Know To Blow Scale

Knowing that Scientology works.

ObKnowsing outpoints.

Knowticing that something is terribly wrong with Scientology.

"Know Way!"

Knowing how to Blow

"Know Shit, they did that?!" (reading the internet)

Deep embarrassment phase ("line cringing")

Wondering if a meter shards would make a good demo kit.

Conscious effort to not use the english words affinity, reality or communication.

Failure to induce amnesia about "the scientology years".

Using pages from DMSHM and old LRH photos as birdcage liner.

Posting on ESMB.

Laughing at dedicating ones life to a sociopathic red-haired liar with rotting teeth.

Knowing who you are not and interested in finding out who you can blow off the bridge.

:hysterical: I'll go buy a bird in preparation for my rapid descent.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Funny HH but it's far worse than we can even verbalize. One of the lower grades is ARC Straightwire. The EP is the PC knowing he won't get any worse. It sounds like a magical and wonderful state to those who are stepping onto the Bridge to total irrational oblivion, but one for one the guys who achieve the state happily realize that they are more fucked up then they ever have been because of the dwindling spiral and thanks to Scientology and their determination to keep buying and completing bridge steps......well you get the idea.

Thank you Ron. :p

Thanks for this post!

This was exactly similar to the line of thinking that HH's post elicited for me.

Then I thought about contrasting every Grade Chart action against the "not going to make it" threat and see how that correlates out. I bet that gets fairly revealing.

But then I'm too frickin' lazy today...

You'll be there (eternity) in the long run either in good or bad shape or whatever the hell the quote is.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
There is one HUGE omitted in the "Church" response by the Tommy Davis
replacement KAREN POUW.

The actual TRUTH of the real estate scam.
Duped Parishioners think they are PURCHASING their local Org.
They are not.
It belongs to the "Church of Scientology International" who then LEASES it back to the local Church for $$$$
Every week the CSI cut which must come right off the top of their financial planning before the staff get any payroll.
(NOTE that some donors only paid hoping that local ownership would permit starving moonlighting staff to get paid better as RENT is always a big expense.)
But even though the local Church weekly revenue must pay utilities, and renovations, furnishings, and ALL expenses ~~
Church of Scientology International owns it.
It is a cash cow.

Every single "Ideal org" is a huge revenue source as they have to PAY the
MOTHER CHURCH to lease it back, after all the locals paid for it !

Great post!

This so clearly portrays the abject criminal method of exchange as practiced by the Church of Contrology. Not only is this a money scam but it is typical Miscavige that squarely places legal control in his hands - much like he's done with RTC and CSI and all that crapola.

No matter how "SP" he is it is legally impossible to deep six this guy.

He is going no where without criminal indictment.

There ain't no rescuing Scientology, folks...thank god!
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Oooo, now in the comments section the OSA Bots are saying that I have a long history of adultery. That's just libelous. I knew this was coming but that's just hilarious. Too bad ya can't prove who these sock puppet dudes are.

This is one of the stupidest actions of Scientology and one that is implemented every single time, which makes it even stupider..."Why?", you ask? Because it is getting worn out and, just like the law of diminishing return demonstrates, is losing its efficacy. It is becoming so plastic and transparent but Scientology is stuck in that great reactive mind called L. Wrong Hu666ard and, as such, will continually and predictably administer the same response given the same stimuli time and time again.

Here's how this particular piece of [STRIKE]trash[/STRIKE]...er...tech works.

Someone makes a remark about a Scientology outpoint or breach of moral conduct.

Scientology noisily accuses the someone of moral turpitude.

Somehow this "explains" Scientology's ammoral behavior or character.

This is supposed to be "logical"?

Accuser: Why does Scientology abuse Human Rights?

Scientology: It is a known fact that Accuser is a cross-dressing adulterer.

As if we're (the spectators to the drama) are supposed to go, "OOOOOOOOOOHHH! I get it...that's the reason Scientology abuses Human Rights...because the Accuser is a cross-dressing adulterer. Why didn't they say so earlier? It all makes perfect sense now!"

The point they're (Scientology) missing is that the factual and real documented abuse is...well...factual and documented!

Tech works 100% of the time...except when it don't...then of course the reason is because someone was a cross-dressing adulterer and not applying the tech correctly or something...
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
-snip-

It's not just adultery, it's "a long history" of adultery! It really is laughable. If that's true, why did they have me on staff. :laugh:

Maybe because Hubbard, the venerable founder, had a long history of adultery?

I mean maybe it's "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" or something?

...just sayin'...
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Great post!

This so clearly portrays the abject criminal method of exchange as practiced by the Church of Contrology. Not only is this a money scam but it is typical Miscavige that squarely places legal control in his hands - much like he's done with RTC and CSI and all that crapola.

No matter how "SP" he is it is legally impossible to deep six this guy.

He is going no where without criminal indictment.

There ain't no rescuing Scientology, folks...thank god!

The ONLY way that I know to get rid of Miscavige would be to buy him out, to persuade him that he has done all he can do and that a grateful cofs wishes to see him spend his days in the lap of luxury far far away.

The only alternative is that the few thousand scientologists that are still there propping up this maloderous runt actually just up and leave. But as they have not done so yet, I don't see many of them buying any sort of a clue in the near future either. Alas. We have a long way to go educating them one by one
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Re: The basis of the coercion and Hard Sell

Dresden was totally destroyed, though it had many historic buildings and the death toll was greater than that from either of the two Atomic Bomb drops on Japanese cities.

your data is incorrect. The total death toll for the Dresden raid - according to the city of Dresden - was 25,000 which is far less than the death toll at Hiroshima.

That doesn't make it "better" of course.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Great find and so true. Thanks Purple Rain. They have nothing left but character assassination. They aren't even pretending PR anymore. It's all force.

Each successive PR person just gets more and more clobbered. Maybe some used to fall for the tactics but everyone is hip to their ridiculous strategies now.

I believe we are seeing the last dying breaths of a mortally wounded beast. Who, in their right mind, would get into Scientology now?


:thumbsup: I can guess where that's headed...as in "results" that is...

Isn't this the root to all dichotomies and such?

Scientology is its own treasonous enemy.

We are all just spectators to the demise.

It's like we're all in this room standing within a circle. Those in the circle are "in" and those outside of the circle are "out".

No one can leave the room.

The circle is Scientology and its contraction is done by itself.

We merely stand there and watch the circle close in on itself with more and more of us being "out" and less and less of us being "in".

This started in 1950 and has just been speeding up over time.

There are no "enemies" doing anything "to" Scientology such as "making" it go wrong or "attacking" it or blah...blah...blah...

It is contracting all on its lonesome and is totally responsible for its own condition.

And, true to the core of Scientology, even the big drama of enemies and war and deadly serious game and win or die in the attempt and you're either on board or not...well...even that is all a scam.

And so goes the circle...
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: The basis of the coercion and Hard Sell

I agree with you about Dresden Paul! My brother, Clarence Rockaway, was in Dresden for an extended stay around 1961 and became very friendly with a family who had lived through the Dresden bomblings in February, 1945.

What the allies did was completely unconscionable and was a war crime of great magnitude. After the first wave of bombing by the British (I believe at night), many civilians tried to find relief from the fire storm going on by seeking haven in a large lake in the center of the city. The next day, the American's launched the second phase of the attack. Not only did they bomb the already destroyed city but they straffed the populace in the lake, just attempting to murder them for no good cause. Finally, the British attacked again the second night.

Dresden was totally destroyed, though it had many historic buildings and the death toll was greater than that from either of the two Atomic Bomb drops on Japanese cities.

The odd thing that is puzzling and really makes this a war crime is the fact that Dresden was not a center of war production. No munititions to speak of were being manufactured there. The City had never been bombed throughout the entire war because of the lack of strategic importance and arms manufacture. The population, three or four hundred thousand pre war, had risen to over a million by February, 1945.

People were flocking to Dresden to sit out the end of WWII, knowing the war would be over in a matter of weeks by that late date. It was assummed to be one of the safest places in Germany to sit out the war.

It appears that the decision to bomb it was taken by the British to avenge the damage done to Coventry, England in 1940 and also the V1 and V2 rocket attacks on England in late 1944 and early 1945. The V1 and V2 were called Vengeance weapons by the Nazi's and now the British wanted some vengeance of their own. Also, Dresden was noted for the fine porcelain and "china" (Dresden Ware) and the British did not want Dresden to challenge their porcelian industry in the post WWII world.

Much to my shame, as an American, the US Air Force seemed more than happy to go along and contribute to the attack. Why they ordered a "turkey shoot" on the Dresden civilian population, seeking refuge in the lake in the park in the center of the city, I will never understand!

I am not sure why the Cathedral in Ulm was spared. Perhaps, the Catholic Church made a successful appeal to the allies to spare destroying it.
Lakey

Lakey - I started a threat to discuss war crimes and other hitorical "facts". Please let us further discuss this there.

Love
Markus
 
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