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New SP Times article: Former Scientology insiders describe a world of coercion

Good twin

Floater
Just because it was a little boy reporting it didn't make the emperor any less naked. So we are all a bunch of SPs guilty of a gazilion immoral actions. That doesn't make the cult less of a con. Christ! We were fucking running it. We know what we are talking about. And yes we were even guilty of the "we don't do those things anymore" PR bullshit line.

It's over guys. There's no excuse for falling for it for much longer. Too many folks remember the first time and the second time and the third time the same old tired PR crap was dragged out to discredit a listened to critic.

Dammit Sindy. You could be the biggest slut on the planet and it wouldn't make your story any less credible. Fuck the cult and their dead agent tech. We're still here and even Anonymous is still standing tall.

:yes:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Clarence Rockaway is your brother, Lakey? Our Clarence Rockaway??

Oh yes, we were very, close until 1984 when he left C of S and I remained in. We both heard the same Scio intro lecture at the L.A. Org on June 5, 1970 and were both signed up for the communications course that same night. We both were Celebebrity Centre Sea Org staff members at the same time. I told the story already on another thread soon after Clarence arrived on ESMB. I made an attempt to reconcile but he would have no part of it.

I saw that he was kicked off of ESMB sometime in July for making extremely hostile comments about Christians in general and Jesus in particular.

He is brilliant in foreign languages and was a superlative emcee for events held at CCLA in the old days. He is fluent in German and Japenese and can get by in Spanish and French but his main forte is Yiddish, a derivative of German mixed with Hebrew, Russian, Polish and whatever. Never was there a better or funnier teller of Jewish jokes. I am not too bad myself and then there was a CC public named Dan Linker who was better than I was and then Clarence was the ne plus ultra - the best of the group. The three of us used to hang out in New York George's restaurant across from the Blue Complex of Buildings in L.A. and tell jokes, mostly Yiddish jokes. Those were the days. The punchlines were so funny that sometimes we almost peed in our pants, laughing so hard.

Clarence could speak in almost every dialect which existed in England. You name the part of England, Scotland or Ireland and he could speak in their dialect and also he knew everything there was to know about the local slang and customs. He had the same facility in German. He could speak with a Berlin dialect, a Munich dialect but his best was his Swabian dialect. He lived for extended times in both Germany and Japan.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
This is one of the stupidest actions of Scientology and one that is implemented every single time, which makes it even stupider..."Why?", you ask? Because it is getting worn out and, just like the law of diminishing return demonstrates, is losing its efficacy. It is becoming so plastic and transparent but Scientology is stuck in that great reactive mind called L. Wrong Hu666ard and, as such, will continually and predictably administer the same response given the same stimuli time and time again.

Here's how this particular piece of [STRIKE]trash[/STRIKE]...er...tech works.

Someone makes a remark about a Scientology outpoint or breach of moral conduct.

Scientology noisily accuses the someone of moral turpitude.

Somehow this "explains" Scientology's ammoral behavior or character.

This is supposed to be "logical"?

Accuser: Why does Scientology abuse Human Rights?

Scientology: It is a known fact that Accuser is a cross-dressing adulterer.

As if we're (the spectators to the drama) are supposed to go, "OOOOOOOOOOHHH! I get it...that's the reason Scientology abuses Human Rights...because the Accuser is a cross-dressing adulterer. Why didn't they say so earlier? It all makes perfect sense now!"

The point they're (Scientology) missing is that the factual and real documented abuse is...well...factual and documented!

Tech works 100% of the time...except when it don't...then of course the reason is because someone was a cross-dressing adulterer and not applying the tech correctly or something...

Good post, good points! What are you going to do when your scriptures insist that you are always right and doing the most good and when they insist, without proof, that someone who is even the slightest bit critical is evil and suppressive.?

You can't win an argument based on merit so all that is left to you is "mud slinging". telling lies about and discrediting the alleged offending party.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
"Terror Bombing" was a strategy endorsed by Churchill, and very much a part of Arthur "Bomber" Harris's tactics (area bombing). Cologne was the first city to be mega-bombed (1000 planes, only 40 lost) in 1942. These were followed by massive raids against Hamburg and Berlin, and culminated in the Dresden raids.
Part of the calculus re: the Dresden raid was that the city was undefended, and the population had swollen due the to advances of the Red Army. These tactics were initially supported by Churchill, however, by 1945, Churchill had stated the following:




Apparently the decision to go forward with the raids rested with Bomber Command, and "Bomber" Harris. In his memoirs, he voiced the following justification:

This was a similar justification to that voiced by the Americans re: the dropping of the atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, saving potentially up to 5 million allied lives if a full scale invasion of the Japanese islands were pursued

His Wing Commander (Harry Weldon) offered the following observation:
.

Nasty business war. I knew several parents of friends who flew that mission over Dresden. They were scarred and broken humans from the experience.


*Bombing of Hamburg (Operation Gomorrah): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War_II

Thanks for adding all this valuable data to what I had posted. I believe you are 100% correct in your comments on Dresden.

On bombing Hamburg with a 1,000 plane raid earlier in the war, my personal opinion is that this was NOT a war crime, the way the bombing of Dresden was. First of all, the Germans had wantonly destroyed city after city in the beginning years of the war. They completely destroyed Warsaw, Poland with no remorse, then with Rotterdam in Holland, they gave the Dutch an ultimatum to surrender by a certain time of the day or they would destroy Rotterdam; the Dutch did surrender but the German's bombed anyway, destroying the entire central city and killing thousands. The German's attempted to destroy London in the same way but were foiled by the RAF. Then in the Russian campaign, they bombed the hell out of the USSR cities absolutely without regret or remorse.

When Hamburg was attacked, Germany was still strong, Japan was still strong and Italy was also on their side. They had other allies such as Romania, Finland and Hungary who were fighting along side them. They still had a chance at victory. Hamburg was well defended and was the biggest port city in the 3rd Reich and a place from which to launch U-Boats and was a valid military target

Only after the battle of Stalingrad did it become apparent that Germany could not win the war. Still, with their control of Europe plus secret weapons which they were working on, they might have been able to gain a stalemate or negotiate for a truce. When D-Day succeeded on June 6, 1944, only then was it obvious that Germany was going to collapse.

That is why the bombing raids in February of 1945 were a war crime. There was no purpose for unleashing such destruction on an undefended German city and murdering 150,000 people.

On the A Bomb being dropped on Japan, we had a real knock down battle on that topic about a year ago on ESMB.

I wouldn't have done it myself but I can't really fault President Truman for ordering the bomb be dropped. The figures which I have heard are that if the USA invaded the Japenese islands, we would have suffered probably 500,000 deaths and maybe 1,000,000 wounded. It is the Japenese who would have suffered much greater losses. Figures as high as 5,000,000 were predicted if each Japanese citizen took part in the struggle and fought to the death. I think it would have been more like 2 to 2.5 million deaths.

In any case, about 250,000 Japenese civilians died in the two A bomb blasts combined. Therefore, millions of Japanese lives and a half million American lives were saved, not to mention millions of wounded on each side. That is the case I made in support of President Truman. Many differed violently with my assessment. I can see the viewpoint of those who disagree and do not wish to argue with them.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The basis of the coercion and Hard Sell

your data is incorrect. The total death toll for the Dresden raid - according to the city of Dresden - was 25,000 which is far less than the death toll at Hiroshima.

That doesn't make it "better" of course.

I read two or three books on the subject in the 1960's. Figures of 150,000 to 250,000 were consistently given by these authors.

I just checked Wikepedia and they have the following article:

Second World War
Dresden, 1945—over ninety percent of the city centre was destroyed.Dresden in the 20th century was a leading European centre of art, classical music, culture and science until its complete destruction on 13 February 1945. Being the capital of the German state of Saxony, Dresden had not only garrisons but a whole military borough, the Albertstadt. This military complex, named after Saxon King Albert, was never targeted in the bombing of Dresden.

During the final months of World War II, Dresden became a safe haven to some 600,000 refugees, including women, children, and wounded soldiers, with a total population of 1.2 million. Dresden was attacked seven times between 1944 and 1945, and was occupied by the Red Army after German capitulation.

The bombing of Dresden by the Royal Air Force and the United States Army Air Force between 13 February and 15 February 1945 remains one of the more controversial Allied actions of the Western European theatre of war.

The inner city of Dresden was largely destroyed by 722 RAF and 527 USAAF bombers that dropped 2431.0 tons of high explosive bombs, and 1475.9 tons of incendiaries.[12]The high explosive bombs damaged buildings and exposed their wooden structure, while the incendiaries ignited it. However, some[who?] perceive the actions of the RAF in particular to be as a direct retaliation for the destruction brought upon the ancient city of Coventry, whose medieval center was destroyed in earlier raids by the Luftwaffe. The bombing raid destroyed the 500 year-old Cathedral, along with almost all of the ancient centre of the city.[13] in three waves of attacks. Early reports estimated 150,000 to 250,000 deaths. The German Dresden Historians' Commission, in an official 2010 report published after five years of research, concluded there were up to 25,000 civilian casualties,[14] while right-wing groups claim that up to 500,000 people died.[citation needed]

The inhabited city centre was almost wiped out, while larger residential, industrial and military sites on the outskirts were relatively unscathed. Some of the Allies described the operation as the justified bombing of a military and industrial target.[15] A report from the British Bomber Command stated the military target was the railway marshalling yard Dresden-Friedrichstadt, which housed 4,000 trucks, at most, per 24 hours. Prime Minister Winston Churchill tried to distance himself from the attack, even though he was heavily involved with the organization and planning of the raid. Several researchers have argued that the February attacks were disproportionate. Mostly women and children died.[16] American novelist Kurt Vonnegut witnessed the raid as a POW; his novel Slaughterhouse-Five is based on that experience. In remembrance of the victims, the anniversaries of the bombing of Dresden are marked with peace demonstrations, devotions and marches.[17][18]

[edit] Post-war period


The estimates were from 150,000 to 250,000 all the way up to last year. In 2010, a report conducted by The German Dresden Historical Assn came up with only 25,000 deaths. If you read the Wikepia article and look at the parts which I have underlined, you will see that the figure of 25,000 is bogus.

First of all, Dresden was an old city and the buildings were largely built from wood. There were 3 waves of bombers from February 13 - 15, 1945 dropping THOUSANDS of TONS of high explosive bombs and incendiaries. Incendiaries are designed to ignite fires. Three waves of bombers with 500 to 700 bombers in each wave dropped these explosives on an undefended city. No German guns or aircraft challenged the bombers.

What happened to Dresden was that everything began burning and the burning spread into one large fire throughout the city center, called a fire storm. The fire storm sucked up all the oxygen so that those who went into bomb shelters or underground subways all died from a lack of oxygen to breathe.

Many of the studies done and the books written in the 50's and 60's were compiled by those who had lived through the bombing on the German side and those who had particpated in the bombing on the English side. By the time the study was taken up between 2005-2010, the city had been completely rebuilt and most of the people who were alive at the time and were old enough to remember the bombing were dead.

The population of Dresden had swollen to 1,200,000 by February, 1945. According to the 2010 figures, 1,175,000 survived the bombing! Just think about it, that is really a ridiculous claim. 3 raids were carrie out on a completely undefended city by 500 to 700 bombers on each raid in a very old city where most of the building were built with wood. Thousand of tons of incendiaries were used and the center of the city went up in one big fire storm. This 2010 report then says that 1,175,000 out of 1,200,000 people emerged alive.

European cities are more condensed and centralized than cities in the Western United States. This was even more true in 1945 than today. Not many individuals owned a family automobile in Germany in the 30's and 40's. Transportation was by streetcars and subways. This article is trying to created an image where Dresden was something like Los Angeles, where the people drive on freeways many miles to get to their homes in the distant suburbs. This is completely bogus. Dresden in the 40's was probably built something like Boston in the 40's or even Boston of today. Most of the people live in the Central City and take subways, buses or street cars just a few miles to the outlying residential areas. There is no way 1,175,000 out of 1,200,000 people could have survived 3 huge raids on Dresden where the entire central city was burning as one giant firestorm!

I don't know why the Historical Assn published such a low result in their survey, maybe they are trying to be kind to Brittain and the US who are now their allies.. Maybe they are just trying to be politically correct. Who knows & who cares?
Lakey
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The basis of the coercion and Hard Sell

Free download. PaulsRobot gives free stress-release sessions 24/7 on whatever topic *you* choose. Paul Adams - Sea Org 1972-96 - Scn bio - Yawnguy site - RoboCounsellor - iCans blog on remote auditing - ESMBDOF YouTube channel - PaulsReadings YouTube channel - ZapperChap YouTube channel - Yawn and Grow Rich Course

Paul

some good links there in your Sig line Paul.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
How times have changed. My last trip to Flag was in 1999. The heavy regging for money and also for recruiting people into the Sea Org made me vow never to come back. THE ONE THING THAT BLOWS MY MIND IS HAVING A PERSON'S AUDITOR REG THE PERSON!! That is absolutely unbelievable!! When did that practice begin.

The Auditor is supposed to be a person's spiritual counselor. Once an Auditor conducts a heavy registration (sales) cycle on a parishioner, I do not see how that parishioner could ever receive another session from that Auditor. The fact that C of S would not only allow such a thing but encourage it and defend it really just shows that all pretense of being a religion and striving for spiritual gain is a phoney myth.

C of S has removes any pretense of being a religion if they now are brazenly and defiantly having their auditor's reg their pc's on session breaks. At least now, anybody but a complete fool should be able to see that the Flag Organization exists only to strip a person from his/her money.

Sure, reging a person for $35,000 for the Super Power building on the ride from the airport is unbelievable and defies all credibility. Yet, even that pales in comparison to having one's auditor reg her pc on session break!!
Lakey

Somebody should do a parody video game called "Flag!" It would be a rat maze game based on the layout of the Ft. Harrison Hotel. Each player would start with $1,000,000. The idea would be to make it thru the maze and keep as much of your money as possible. Of course, you would encounter various redge characters along the way, as well as various covert redges. Any staff not officially a redge could be a covert redge. Sometimes it would pay to try to get around a redge without coughing up money, but, other times, depending on the location of various moving obstacles, it might pay to give up a few bucks just to get thru. Of course, if you loose all your cash before making it to the exit of the maze, you are subject to a grizzly graphic of having your character locked in a room for 17 days, starved, dehydrated, and feasted on by cockroaches before being carried out.

Pete
 

Good twin

Floater
Somebody should do a parody video game called "Flag!" It would be a rat maze game based on the layout of the Ft. Harrison Hotel. Each player would start with $1,000,000. The idea would be to make it thru the maze and keep as much of your money as possible. Of course, you would encounter various redge characters along the way, as well as various covert redges. Any staff not officially a redge could be a covert redge. Sometimes it would pay to try to get around a redge without coughing up money, but, other times, depending on the location of various moving obstacles, it might pay to give up a few bucks just to get thru. Of course, if you loose all your cash before making it to the exit of the maze, you are subject to a grizzly graphic of having your character locked in a room for 17 days, starved, dehydrated, and feasted on by cockroaches before being carried out.

Pete

Oh my gosh! This would be far more horrifying than Phantasmagoria.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Somebody should do a parody video game called "Flag!" It would be a rat maze game based on the layout of the Ft. Harrison Hotel. Each player would start with $1,000,000. The idea would be to make it thru the maze and keep as much of your money as possible. Of course, you would encounter various redge characters along the way, as well as various covert redges. Any staff not officially a redge could be a covert redge. Sometimes it would pay to try to get around a redge without coughing up money, but, other times, depending on the location of various moving obstacles, it might pay to give up a few bucks just to get thru. Of course, if you loose all your cash before making it to the exit of the maze, you are subject to a grizzly graphic of having your character locked in a room for 17 days, starved, dehydrated, and feasted on by cockroaches before being carried out.

Pete

You could do this with a Monopoly-type board game, where you throw dice and keep going round and round the board, since every day at Flag one repeats the same sort of activities and has to run the same gamut of threats.

The "Community Chest"-type cards could be replaced with relevant Scn ones. Since Scienoworld these days is so full of arbitraries on case actions, mandatory attendances to this and that, etc etc it would be completely real to land on squares assigning arbitrary ethics conditions etc. Even a "Get out of Ethics Free" card.

Much easier to design than a Flash video game, as you can make a board out of cardboard and paper. Easier to crowdsource from ESMB posts too. :)

Paul
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
-snip-

Of course, if you loose all your cash before making it to the exit of the maze, you are subject to a grizzly graphic of having your character locked in a room for 17 days, starved, dehydrated, and feasted on by cockroaches before being carried out.

Pete

HIP! HIP! HOORAY! Pete!

"feasted on by cockroaches" - this is classic! :thumbsup:
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Oh yes, we were very, close until 1984 when he left C of S and I remained in. We both heard the same Scio intro lecture at the L.A. Org on June 5, 1970 and were both signed up for the communications course that same night. We both were Celebebrity Centre Sea Org staff members at the same time. I told the story already on another thread soon after Clarence arrived on ESMB. I made an attempt to reconcile but he would have no part of it.

I saw that he was kicked off of ESMB sometime in July for making extremely hostile comments about Christians in general and Jesus in particular.

He is brilliant in foreign languages and was a superlative emcee for events held at CCLA in the old days. He is fluent in German and Japenese and can get by in Spanish and French but his main forte is Yiddish, a derivative of German mixed with Hebrew, Russian, Polish and whatever. Never was there a better or funnier teller of Jewish jokes. I am not too bad myself and then there was a CC public named Dan Linker who was better than I was and then Clarence was the ne plus ultra - the best of the group. The three of us used to hang out in New York George's restaurant across from the Blue Complex of Buildings in L.A. and tell jokes, mostly Yiddish jokes. Those were the days. The punchlines were so funny that sometimes we almost peed in our pants, laughing so hard.

Clarence could speak in almost every dialect which existed in England. You name the part of England, Scotland or Ireland and he could speak in their dialect and also he knew everything there was to know about the local slang and customs. He had the same facility in German. He could speak with a Berlin dialect, a Munich dialect but his best was his Swabian dialect. He lived for extended times in both Germany and Japan.
Lakey

:omg: WOW! That's to be admired Lakey. Thanks for that.

I speak, read and write Greek. Only because I lived there for 6 years when I was 21.

People who discover that I do, think I'm the bees knees but I don't hold a candle to your brother!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Somebody should do a parody video game called "Flag!" It would be a rat maze game based on the layout of the Ft. Harrison Hotel. Each player would start with $1,000,000. The idea would be to make it thru the maze and keep as much of your money as possible. Of course, you would encounter various redge characters along the way, as well as various covert redges. Any staff not officially a redge could be a covert redge. Sometimes it would pay to try to get around a redge without coughing up money, but, other times, depending on the location of various moving obstacles, it might pay to give up a few bucks just to get thru. Of course, if you loose all your cash before making it to the exit of the maze, you are subject to a grizzly graphic of having your character locked in a room for 17 days, starved, dehydrated, and feasted on by cockroaches before being carried out. Pete

lolololol
..


Possible name suggestion, based on the billion dollar blockbuster success of GTA. . .


gta4boxsm.jpg


GRAND
THEFT
OT

 

freethinker

Sponsor
That's a brilliant idea Pete! You could have player peices like monopoly. The object of the game would be to go to Flag and try to make it up the bridge to OTVII with the minimum donations possible. You could have cards as well like - You just left the examiners office but ran into the IAS reg, donate $10,000. Or, You have been summoned to ehtics to handle a KR, donate $100,000 to planetary dissem to resume your bridge.

It's a game that could wake Scientologists up who play it.:yes:
Somebody should do a parody video game called "Flag!" It would be a rat maze game based on the layout of the Ft. Harrison Hotel. Each player would start with $1,000,000. The idea would be to make it thru the maze and keep as much of your money as possible. Of course, you would encounter various redge characters along the way, as well as various covert redges. Any staff not officially a redge could be a covert redge. Sometimes it would pay to try to get around a redge without coughing up money, but, other times, depending on the location of various moving obstacles, it might pay to give up a few bucks just to get thru. Of course, if you loose all your cash before making it to the exit of the maze, you are subject to a grizzly graphic of having your character locked in a room for 17 days, starved, dehydrated, and feasted on by cockroaches before being carried out.

Pete
 
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