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HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree that the Church of Scientology has many cultish aspects. I labeled it as such in 1974 prior to joining and had to later petition the Guardians office to join....

The price, the money, the effort required to become spiritually free are up to you. You ARE free to find your own way. But if you like to have a supervisor over your shoulder when you read and study, you pay. The library and your own efforts are free.

Its ironic you decry paying for spiritual freedom, as from my viewpoint the people who only pay their way up the processing side of the bridge, usually are the least likely to attain it. I would agree that it is not possible to buy salvation. You need to work for it, and when you find it, I suspect that it will not be something anyone else had and conveyed to you.

You and everyone else on this planet is being fed lies constantly by many other entities than your hated church. Politically, culturally, sexually. We swim in a sea of lies looking for the beach of truth.

When you find it, let me know.

alex

Alex - I have found it. Just thought I would let you know.


Bloody Australians!

Opinionated.

Boisterous.

Self-Righteous.

Arrogant.

Oh my God! We've become American! :omg:
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :roflmao: You Aussies rule! I never laughed so hard on this board til you Aussies arrived. :cloud9:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Alex - I have found it. Just thought I would let you know.



HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :roflmao: You Aussies rule! I never laughed so hard on this board til you Aussies arrived. :cloud9:

The Ozzies have run this board since the beginning. The rest of us are here on charity.

Zinj
 

Human Again

Silver Meritorious Patron
None of the Aussies are spouting 'anti tech/ it's all a fraud'. We probably all take it with a grain of salt and may fall down in hysterics if someone read KSW to us, but we have varying degrees of faith in the tech.

Um, 'scuse me Sir Feral, I know you are an OL here and that you and others are very active and I'm not doing anything to help people get out of the clutches of the CoS but I felt a little like I was being spoken for.

I am am Aussie and it seems to me that Scientology is a fraud perpetuated by Hubbard on people with high ideals and continued by unknowing FSMs, staff and SO members today. I have a suspicion that the gains people get are not so much because of the specific processes for example but perhaps because a goal is set - like, let's be able to communicate - and when someone sits down with that goal and another person who truly cares and is willing to listen and allows the person to find their way through, well, maybe it is the good intentions of the two people involved that get it done. There are many thousands of good people in the orgs and the SO who care for the people around them and perhaps that is what causes any good we see, not the esoteric questions of a long dead con man?

I am not 100% certain of this, I am still adjudicating for myself if I am ANTI-Tech. I might be. I have a feeling one cannot separate processing and training from indoctrinating and controlling and brain washing. I haven't worked it out yet. I am definately NOT a pro-Scientology but anti church person. I know you say "varying degrees of faith" well, I have NO FAITH in the tech.

Just want to be clear on this. No rudeness or insult intended to you. Actually, thanks are due as, in having to work out how to say it, I think I clarified something for myself.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
It is an EX scientologist board.

You are going to see opinions which are strongly anti scientology.

No one has to treat scios with kid gloves.

We don't need a "safe environment" for scios.

Even some exes may not, at first, like to see things which are too anti. But many newer exes have been so controlled by the brainwashing cult of scientology, that they derive benefit by those posters who come right out and express their exteme anti sscio view. Even when they do that they have to be careful that they are not unwittingly playing some silly CULT OSA troll game.

Stop whining about the fact that EX SCIENTOLOGISTS
do not speak in the same way that scientologists do.

:clap: :clap: :thumbsup:
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
There is plenty of time!

Um, 'scuse me Sir Feral, I know you are an OL here and that you and others are very active and I'm not doing anything to help people get out of the clutches of the CoS but I felt a little like I was being spoken for.

I am am Aussie and it seems to me that Scientology is a fraud perpetuated by Hubbard on people with high ideals and continued by unknowing FSMs, staff and SO members today. I have a suspicion that the gains people get are not so much because of the specific processes for example but perhaps because a goal is set - like, let's be able to communicate - and when someone sits down with that goal and another person who truly cares and is willing to listen and allows the person to find their way through, well, maybe it is the good intentions of the two people involved that get it done. There are many thousands of good people in the orgs and the SO who care for the people around them and perhaps that is what causes any good we see, not the esoteric questions of a long dead con man?

I am not 100% certain of this, I am still adjudicating for myself if I am ANTI-Tech. I might be. I have a feeling one cannot separate processing and training from indoctrinating and controlling and brain washing. I haven't worked it out yet. I am definately NOT a pro-Scientology but anti church person. I know you say "varying degrees of faith" well, I have NO FAITH in the tech.

Just want to be clear on this. No rudeness or insult intended to you. Actually, thanks are due as, in having to work out how to say it, I think I clarified something for myself.[/QUOTE]

This is progress indeed! :yes: Take your time - it will all come out "in the wash"! :coolwink: :D

EP and Roy
 

Feral

Rogue male
Apologies HA,

Correction noted:yes:

Um, 'scuse me Sir Feral, I know you are an OL here and that you and others are very active and I'm not doing anything to help people get out of the clutches of the CoS but I felt a little like I was being spoken for.

I am am Aussie and it seems to me that Scientology is a fraud perpetuated by Hubbard on people with high ideals and continued by unknowing FSMs, staff and SO members today. I have a suspicion that the gains people get are not so much because of the specific processes for example but perhaps because a goal is set - like, let's be able to communicate - and when someone sits down with that goal and another person who truly cares and is willing to listen and allows the person to find their way through, well, maybe it is the good intentions of the two people involved that get it done. There are many thousands of good people in the orgs and the SO who care for the people around them and perhaps that is what causes any good we see, not the esoteric questions of a long dead con man?

I am not 100% certain of this, I am still adjudicating for myself if I am ANTI-Tech. I might be. I have a feeling one cannot separate processing and training from indoctrinating and controlling and brain washing. I haven't worked it out yet. I am definately NOT a pro-Scientology but anti church person. I know you say "varying degrees of faith" well, I have NO FAITH in the tech.

Just want to be clear on this. No rudeness or insult intended to you. Actually, thanks are due as, in having to work out how to say it, I think I clarified something for myself.
 
UMM....

Do you seriously think that what the church says controls who is saved and who isnt?

It is up to each individual, through what is true for them to find what they consider to be the best for them.

Maybe "salvation" is the basic right of any man simply because he exists, but who do you think will bestowe it? How do you think it can be achieved?

My belief is that it is by each persons own efforts.....I dont think God is partial, or caring.

alex

That's great that yu feel this way Alex, but that is not the view of the Church or Scientology.
I do agree with you about the growing antagonism to pro-Scientology posters (and I hope I've contributed to that). But as I see it they create antagonism because of their arrogance and assertiveness at how they are right and we are all wrong. I know I'm making a very sweeping statement, but that's how some of these posters come across to me.
But the pendulum is swinging and someday it will swing back.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
If you're a 'Scientologist' how could you *not* be arrogant?

It's like being a virgin whore. Interesting conceptually, but, unlikely 'real world'

Zinj
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
My feeling is that if there are any "OSA" here, they are in the guise of critics, friendly, and completely off the radar. This would jibe with what Panda has posted.

alex

Yes, like the poster who responds with links and not words....
and the poster that is so pro scn that all they do is defend it.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
There seems to be a new theme developing on ESMB, that differing views are simply trolling, and possibly OSA.

When ESMB started there was an atmosphere of tolerance and posters with differing views were engaged or not depending on the intelligence and interesting ideas in their posts.

There was a general sympathy for the residual fondness for the tech by the people who rejected it, as it was part of the common experience.

And the tech lovers understood those who rejected it as they also had similar invalidative experiences with the church's culture.

The arrival of the anon and its very different culture, and the more recent arrival of a substantial force of Australians, who are very self confident in their own correctness, seems to be turning ESMB from Emma's tea party, to campaign headquarters against the church.

Pro scientology views are ridiculed with little thought given to the fact that they are views once also held by most of the people here.

Threads are treated as if this is all about serious business.

What happened to this being a place where we could all talk, with out the subtext of suspicion and the implication that hidden adgendas were being run?

Diverting a thread may just be a way to keep some conversation going. Some of the best threads on this board have gone for hundreds of pages with massive diversions and then someone replies to the original posters theme and its back on course. Its all communication.

I am personally sensitive to this OSA paranoia as I have often been accused of being such. I am listed on lermanet.com as such. And I have a tendency to have thoughts sparked by what people say and post in a thread with tagential thoughts that some would think diversionary.

But there are people on this board who have access to my real name.

My whole point being that some of the feeling that this is a safe place for anyone with a scientology experience to talk is to some degree being undermined by a trend towards stonger activism and less tolerance.

For those of you who feel the need to "rescue" your fellow man from thier beliefs, perhaps you are shooting yourself in the foot when you encourage an atmosphere of looking out for the OSA and labeling differences as trolling.

I have no qualms with seeing people who left the church as people of good intent. I desire reform in the church, and think that it is currently way off track from its stated goals. But is anti-scientology really a good new religion?

alex (who expects to be relabeled an osa troll. perhaps emma will change my "status" lable to osa troll extrodinare.)

Yeah, I got accused of being OSA lately and the troll thing. I've been banned twice from ESMB for being an asshole and have reformed quite markedly and aim to be as respectful and mature as possible. But the recent influx of Anons and people with doubtful real-life experience with CoS is getting to me. Threads end up in petty rhetoric and there is little debate to feast on no more.

I hope noone gives in to demands for my censorship I feel ESMB is my home and I've been posting here for a while now. Thanks to ESMB I've had OSA come to handle me and buy me supper. On top of that I've been in the online scene since 1996 when ARS started and on IRC EFNET as PC-2000 and Emu2000. Ask Zinj or Lerma, they remember me.

I'm sure there's a better celtic mythology term more appropriate to me and Alex.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
No, no man needs to work for salvation that is his right simply by his existence as a human being.

Who are you and your cult to say someone didn't work hard enough so they don't get immortality?

What man can judge another in such a fashion? How fucking dare you.

That's not the mindset of a person or group that has mankind at heart, that is the mindset of an elitist organization, which has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality.

They fucked you good didn't they?

Elitist? With Tom Cruise and David Miscavige? Stop talking trash boy. They are as elite as boogers under a school desk. Money milking is a more appropriate term, CoS has nothing elitist about it. As a matter of fact it's in dire need of a real elite within it's ranks dammit! That's my whole beef! The boob is running the boobs! :omg:
 

Good twin

Floater
please elaborate....I understand non sequitur but not sure what you mean here....:confused2:

I just find it tiring when someone comes in and says "Scientology Stinks!" like out of the blue. I mean like "duh" we know that..... It's like there are sometimes posters who seem to make themselves look stupid so the rest of us are stupid by association. They'll pipe in with some random comment that seems like it's in agreement with critics but just seems totally random. I get very suspicious of these types of posts. Pitbull used to do this. I swear that guy could get into a flame war with himself. (not to pick on Pitbull - but doing it anyway)

I think Being way too smooth (glib) can be questionable and being way to off the wall also. Does that clarify it for you PC?
 
Elitist? With Tom Cruise and David Miscavige? Stop talking trash boy. They are as elite as boogers under a school desk. Money milking is a more appropriate term, CoS has nothing elitist about it. As a matter of fact it's in dire need of a real elite within it's ranks dammit! That's my whole beef! The boob is running the boobs! :omg:

They think they are elite, which is why they are elitist. But your point is well taken that they are incompetent.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
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