New theme for ESMB?

[alex]

Dear alex,

The CoS/OSA, whatever, will never, ever, ever trouble you for making posts in this vein.

Those who call a thing what it is and speak out may have trouble in abundance. With these stout folks I will stand.

You are neither hot nor cold - but lukewarm! Thus I spew you from my mouth.

If Cos is not paying you in some coin, then you are surely being most unjustly served.

Roy, the EP's EP

I don't know exactly what leavings of me you are spewing, nor what part of my person has been in your mouth, but your insinuation is noted.

 

[alex]

I like Alex. He stands up for himself. A person is better off seeing more than one side than in throwing out the baby with the bathwater and being unable to differentiate one idea from another, preferring instead to tar everything with the same oh-so-broad brush.

Fluffy, you are too kind to me after the years of abuse I sent your way...

Thank you.

alex

 

[Zinjifar]

The Scientology Movement doesn't need a 'broad brush'.

Sandblasters at point-blank-range anyone?

Zinj

 

[alex]

It's kind of a shame that Alex uses x-no archive - yes on ARS, since it would make it easier for the new 'Googlegroupsians' to look back on the posting history that's actually behind most of the 'Alex is OSA' discussion.

Zinj

Thank goodness I had enough self awareness to know I would post foolishly and regret it....

But archives exist....sten and someone else have said they have them.

alex

 

[Zinjifar]

Thank goodness I had enough self awareness to know I would post foolishly and regret it....

But archives exist....sten and someone else have said they have them.

alex

Alex; I've 'accepted' you for years, even knowing the depths of your venom, because it's not the only side of you. I don't think forgetting history is all that valuable. It would be *good* for people to better understand you.

Good for you too

Zinj

 

[alex]

I think NEO put that much better than I could have.

I will reiterate one thing. None of the Aussies are spouting 'anti tech/ it's all a fraud'. We probably all take it with a grain of salt and may fall down in hysterics if someone read KSW to us, but we have varying degrees of faith in the tech.

We are not anti-scientology. We have the luxury of using our newly rehabilitated critical thinking skills in evaluating the experience. In this way we have all come to see the fraud that is the cofs.

We have chosen to present a balanced critical view of the cofs and our experience in it to our friends. They can make up their own mind.

We have not declared our selves as a religion or as enemies, we are critics, this is a democratic right, something that the cofs can neither understand or tolerate. So they see ENEMIES and have sent attack clowns after us.

I hope this explains.

"You Aussies" can criticise scientology to your hearts content. My purpose in this thread is to point out the changing tone of the board overall, and what I see as the reason.

I have seen and been the subject of several "OSA" paranoia periods. Panda Posted very valuable data about the operating basis of B1, and sure I would expect that "they" are here....but when non specific inferences and sloganing and troll bashing become the predominent responses to posts that a person disagree with, then the tone of the board becomes more polarized and less helpfull for all.

I would ask that people be more specific about what they see as osa behavior, instances of trolling, and mostly about those things that happen "in real life" that seem to be happening to you, that others of us dont know about. Time, form, place and event.

Document real life harrassment in posts here rather than alluding to it.

Panda alludes to knowing about actual crimes, are these reported to law enforcement? In fact how is one to know its true?

There is a lot of "we all know its true" behavior of late, but in circles I and others dont have inside access too.

I dont want to stop communication, just influence the tone of it.

alex

 

[alex]

I just re-read Alex's original post.
My post is on the topic. The topic is about the views AND the way people express them. To complain about how people are "speaking" is Dev-t. Don't complain, just speak.
And don't apologise for people who complain about how people speak. That's Dev-t. Such dev -t looks trollish
because a trolls main function is to dev-t people. and then you and Alex create more dev t telling people you are not trolls. Viscious cycle.

If what you say is your truth, then you are feeding the trolls.

Vicious cycle indeed.

alex

 

[alex]

You and everyone else on this planet is being fed lies constantly by many other entities than your hated church. Politically, culturally, sexually. We swim in a sea of lies looking for the beach of truth.

When you find it, let me know.

alex

Alex - I have found it. Just thought I would let you know.



snip:

Details? or will it cost me?


alex

 

[alex]

That's great that yu feel this way Alex, but that is not the view of the Church or Scientology.
I do agree with you about the growing antagonism to pro-Scientology posters (and I hope I've contributed to that). But as I see it they create antagonism because of their arrogance and assertiveness at how they are right and we are all wrong. I know I'm making a very sweeping statement, but that's how some of these posters come across to me.
But the pendulum is swinging and someday it will swing back.

The Anabaptist Jacques

In my opinion the church should not have any views.

I appreciate your honesty in admitting to creating antagonism.

But per the rules and statement of intent for this board, pro-scientology views are acceptable.

The arrogance and assertiveness comes from many views not just the pro scientology, which seems in the minority here besides.

alex

 

[alex]

You're elite when OTHERS think you are. Not a flow 0 thing.

Nice observation.

 

[alex]

I found it Alex! Right here!

You can find it too, Alex. But it is not in some dead cult-leader's words moldering in some KSW straightjacket of a dead man's slave-control intentions!

You know this really! Stop pretending to us and yourself!

I am who I am asagai, if I am pretending to myself, I am unaware of it.

I would welcome hearing what you think is the way, the path, the truth, happiness, the answer to the ultimate question, life the universe and everything....

But if it is the destruction of scientology, I still disagree.

alex

 

[alex]

Alex is lying to you.

Don't be a patsy all of your life.

"OSA"-types, or a co-operative Scientology Inc. Scientologist, can assume any guise.

This is something that exists. It's wise to know about, not wise to dwell upon.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=130231&postcount=713

Even an outspoken, naive, autistic, cult slave, with gender identification issues? (and urbane and witty per Zinj!)

Oh My!

 

[Zinjifar]

But if it is the destruction of scientology, I still disagree.

alex

Please specify what 'the destruction of Scientology' would be, in your mind.

Does that involve the banning of the study; the destruction of the books and tapes?; the suppression of every practitioner?

Or

The prosecution of the organization; the holding accountable of the 'Movement' for its crimes?; the revelation of the hidden crimes?; the total failure of Keeping Scientology Working and the abandonment of the goal of 'Clearing the Planet'?

Which is the 'destruction of Scientology'?

Zinj

 

[alex]

I'm curious. When does Scientology 'culture' become the 'current culture' that you reject?

Where's the 'tipping point'? What makes 'before' different than 'current'?

Zinj

I think for me it happened in about the time I started to post as alex.

But looking back the changes were probably late 70's. Perhaps tied to the Sea Orgs emergence as the dominant force.

alex

 

[alex]

Alex; I've 'accepted' you for years, even knowing the depths of your venom, because it's not the only side of you. I don't think forgetting history is all that valuable. It would be *good* for people to better understand you.

Good for you too

Zinj

Remembering history is vital. Leaving it behind more so.

Thanks Z man.

alex

 

[Zinjifar]

I think for me it happened in about the time I started to post as alex.

But looking back the changes were probably late 70's. Perhaps tied to the Sea Orgs emergence as the dominant force.

alex

If and when you get it figured out, let me know. In looking back over the history of Scientology and the Scientology Movement, I have yet to finda change in the core horror. Changes in seasoning in the soup? Yes. But, to read 'The Abberree' is enough to know that Scientology was *always* trying to be what it is now.

Scientology was never more horrific than it could be. That's why the 'early years' look nicer. It *couldn't be* as bad as it is, so it wasn't. Now it can; so it is.

Zinj

 

[Free to shine]

If and when you get it figured out, let me know. In looking back over the history of Scientology and the Scientology Movement, I have yet to finda change in the core horror. Changes in seasoning in the soup? Yes. But, to read 'The Abberree' is enough to know that Scientology was *always* trying to be what it is now.

Scientology was never more horrific than it could be. That's why the 'early years' look nicer. It *couldn't be* as bad as it is, so it wasn't. Now it can; so it is.

Zinj

Well said.

 

[alex]

I'm sitting in a motel in Santa Barbara, on a visit to my son at his university. Watching the kids in the pool, having a New Castle Brown Ale and typing on a borrowed computer...

Seeing my son and all the opportunities he has, all the avenues he can explore , and take in his life, makes me admire and envy those folk who have moved on from ESMB. Two in particular who were an enourmous influence on me, Alanzo with his granting of beingness and love of intellectual exercise, and Bea whose bravery in writing her story gave me the courage to start changes in myself by writing here in a more honest and self revelatory style. (for me).

It seems they have been able to move on. I would like to also, someday. Not have scientology be a problem. Although I would still like it in my life.

Thus perhaps this thread, my perhaps futile attempt to remind of a tone and feeling less concerned with......with.....serious business?

But maybe I'm just being dramatic.


alex

 

[alex]

If and when you get it figured out, let me know. In looking back over the history of Scientology and the Scientology Movement, I have yet to finda change in the core horror. Changes in seasoning in the soup? Yes. But, to read 'The Abberree' is enough to know that Scientology was *always* trying to be what it is now.

Scientology was never more horrific than it could be. That's why the 'early years' look nicer. It *couldn't be* as bad as it is, so it wasn't. Now it can; so it is.

Zinj

What you will never understand, feel in your gut, is the reasons those of us who do or did scientology were so engrossed.

I wish you could understand the good experience of it. Most who have been in probably understand.

You know the bad better than most.

alex

 

[Zinjifar]

I'm not so sure Alanzo's gone

Bea may not be very 'active' now, but, I don't know that she'd accept your 'moved on' from ESMB as a valid metaphor.

Zinj