New theme for ESMB?

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
My certainty is an agreed upon certainty by the vast majority of the human race.

While I hope there is something more to this life, there is no proof, not a shred of evidence of anything beyond what we see and know.

Many ex scientologists still believe they can attain these super powers the cult promises.

But you can't buy super powers from a man, or an organization created and run by man. Because no man can dole out something they don't have.
After 50 plus years there is no proof that scientology does anything more than trick you. The evidence of that is enormous.

If you have proof otherwise, please share it so that the whole world can benefit from your experience, otherwise what you say is nonsense or an attempt to keep people trapped or to trap more.

I dont believe that I can prove anything to you.

Additionally I agree with you that one person can not give, dole out or bestow, or otherwise cause another to know something. That includes spiritual freedom.

All that we know is because of our individual efforts and willing ness to look.

I seem to be looking somewhere other than you. That is our respective right.

But I think where I am looking does not need my explanation to you as you seem to feel familiar enough with it already.

Best wishes on your road from one on another.

alex
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Clarity! I love it!

The idea that you have to have an ability to coax that ability out of another is false.

The Socratic method allows a teacher to draw answers out of a student, rather than instructing them in the answer and then requesting them to regurgitate it on a test. Auditing doesn't "confer" any power from the auditor to the preclear, or from Hubbard to anyone else. It's function is to educe answers and ability from the person being audited. Where this is violated, brainwashing is occurring.[/QUOTE]

No "link" could have said it better, uniquemand! :clap: (by the way - I had a fair amount of the first, but a lot more of the latter during my time "in") :clap:

Roy, the EP's EP
 

well_that_sucked

Patron with Honors
I dont believe that I can prove anything to you.

Additionally I agree with you that one person can not give, dole out or bestow, or otherwise cause another to know something. That includes spiritual freedom.

All that we know is because of our individual efforts and willing ness to look.

I seem to be looking somewhere other than you. That is our respective right.

But I think where I am looking does not need my explanation to you as you seem to feel familiar enough with it already.

Best wishes on your road from one on another.

alex

All that we know is based on our ability to prove it.

I don't need an explanation, my eyes are opened.

You support the cult of scientology, so you are pushing their party line.

Its one thing to say "I believe" or you too can "believe", but saying you can have or obtain, super powers that are unproven, unattainable and non existent, for a price, is criminal and evil.
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
OK.

Do you have a link that gives step by step instructions?

I will look at it today or when you point me to a specific technique. I am unable to "let go" of the things that hold onto my attention units, to the extent that I am free of them. That is how I see it. Yes I do understand that it is a construct of my own making. I have yet to "see" it in its entirety and thus "as is" it.

alex

http://www.sedona.com/

The book was available from Amazon - last time I looked.

http://www.headless.org

Has the headless experiments.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
vwd

Jeez. How very nasty. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone had to only believe in certain things and othes were verboten and where people could enforce that. Didn't we get enough of that in CofS?

All throughout history there've been people like that. The puritans, the inquisitors of the Catholic Church, and, as of late, the Taliban. Those sorts of individuals were and are so sure that they not only are the ones with the right info but that they should go around fucking with everyone who doesn't toe the line.

Good post Claire!
 

Feral

Rogue male
Very glib Alex,

I completely believe Allan if he said he did not. So as far as I am concerned Allan did not reverse audit you, on a message board or on the phone. I also find it hard to believe any one could be in such a delicate state of mind to actually spin.

I don't need to know all about you, I do know you by your communication on this board.

I have seen that while your posts are full of contrary facts you still chose to jump on another's posts for minor outpoints and claim it to be utterly fake, were you speaking from your own deceptive heart?

None of this is consistent with your stated purpose.


My game? Communicating "the truth" as I see it, in the interest of me learning from the feedback or causing others to expand their awareness.

As to the personal details about myself I will readily admit to creating confusion. I am less cloaked than an anon, there are many identifying details about me, out, including photos! But I have no guilt in protecting my own interests by being less than fully transparent. If you really want to know something pm me. There are several people here who know my name, but it is not that of any one important.

Reverse processing....I truely believe I was subject to reverse processing by Alan. It is something that started on alt.clearing.technology when I posted very pointed questions about his beliefs and activities that he feels are an attack on him.

It continued here with a series of wrong indications and pointedly introverting communications from him, and resulting in my spinning.

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=138494&postcount=20

Gives a specific date.

It probably was stupid of me to say anything here about it.

But then thats me...

He denies ever having talked to me, but we have interacted over a period of years, and even talked on the phone. He is someone my parents knew and have mutual friends with probably to this day, although I did not know him through them.

My current perspective on this is that he is lacking in perception. He in all likely hood honestly considers me his enemy and is acting appropriately.

He no longer seems willing to communicate with me. I can understand that.

Alan, I am a fool and should have never lashed out at you in public with my BPC.

So Feral....questions answered?

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=3443
and
http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=5167

Provide additional information about me.

alex (and yes I have enjoyed physical intimacy with both genders, although I have been faithful to one person for over two decades, we celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary this year)
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
Very glib Alex,

I completely believe Allan if he said he did not. So as far as I am concerned Allan did not reverse audit you, on a message board or on the phone. I also find it hard to believe any one could be in such a delicate state of mind to actually spin.

I don't need to know all about you, I do know you by your communication on this board.

I have seen that while your posts are full of contrary facts you still chose to jump on another's posts for minor outpoints and claim it to be utterly fake, were you speaking from your own deceptive heart?

None of this is consistent with your stated purpose.

Alan claims to have never spoken with me.

But he pm'd me his phone number that he answered directly, bypassing his secretary, whom I had spoken to earlier in the day when I had called.

He can deny all he wants. Did you ask him? Or simply go with the preexisting consensus.

I am well aware that I come across as glib, naive, manipulative etc. and that it is of my own doing. But perhaps that is honestly who I am?

I have decided to keep communicating. It is better than introspection.

alex (I find it offensive that you doubt people can be spun)
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
http://www.sedona.com/

The book was available from Amazon - last time I looked.

http://www.headless.org

Has the headless experiments.

OK.

So I walked around yesterday trying to be headless.

Yes I know "try not, DO" (yoda).

The concept of headlessness is valuable. It was extroverting. It is nice to expand out into the space I perceive.

And I did a bit of reading about the sedona method, although I do not have any "source" materials on it yet. (and I have a library card so no excuse).

What I gather of the sedona method, reminds me of other things and experiences I have had.

I recently went to a satsang with gangaji and have listend to some of her talks and it seems to be after the same sort of thing. Loving awareness. Still heart.

I have in the past achieved the "still" state. And did it in meditation, with the goal of letting go, while also accepting all, (Which requires a very non dichotomous state!) That experience resulted in my "exteriorization" with full perceptions. (An experience that still "reads" everytime "out int" comes up on a correction list, as I went back in rather suddenly!)

But some of what occurs in my space still to this day is not stuff I can let go. The emotions are easy. I can have or not have whatever emotion I choose, pretty much at will, and can be emotionless too. (with notable exceptions in situations I lose perspective on...)

I still believe that there is value in the process's of scientology for exploring and coming to full understanding the past decisions I have made or participated in that still affect me, yet remain outside my awareness.

I like the technology, the trialed and proven process's, the meter, the guidance and structure. In my view, the only impediment in "scientology" is the CULTure that surrounds it. I may be unusual though in that it bothers me less than it seems to bother other people. Maybe it is because I am aware of it?

Thanks for caring about me enough to try to point me where you think is best.

alex
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
elusive when

words, not do

I, not you

placed opposite

myself

imaginary living

what else.

stillness within

remembered again

illusive, elusive

since when.
 

grinder

Patron
There seems to be a new theme developing on ESMB, that differing views are simply trolling, and possibly OSA.

When ESMB started there was an atmosphere of tolerance and posters with differing views were engaged or not depending on the intelligence and interesting ideas in their posts.

There was a general sympathy for the residual fondness for the tech by the people who rejected it, as it was part of the common experience.

And the tech lovers understood those who rejected it as they also had similar invalidative experiences with the church's culture.

The arrival of the anon and its very different culture, and the more recent arrival of a substantial force of Australians, who are very self confident in their own correctness, seems to be turning ESMB from Emma's tea party, to campaign headquarters against the church.

Pro scientology views are ridiculed with little thought given to the fact that they are views once also held by most of the people here.

Threads are treated as if this is all about serious business.

What happened to this being a place where we could all talk, with out the subtext of suspicion and the implication that hidden adgendas were being run?

Diverting a thread may just be a way to keep some conversation going. Some of the best threads on this board have gone for hundreds of pages with massive diversions and then someone replies to the original posters theme and its back on course. Its all communication.

I am personally sensitive to this OSA paranoia as I have often been accused of being such. I am listed on lermanet.com as such. And I have a tendency to have thoughts sparked by what people say and post in a thread with tagential thoughts that some would think diversionary.

But there are people on this board who have access to my real name.

My whole point being that some of the feeling that this is a safe place for anyone with a scientology experience to talk is to some degree being undermined by a trend towards stonger activism and less tolerance.

For those of you who feel the need to "rescue" your fellow man from thier beliefs, perhaps you are shooting yourself in the foot when you encourage an atmosphere of looking out for the OSA and labeling differences as trolling.

I have no qualms with seeing people who left the church as people of good intent. I desire reform in the church, and think that it is currently way off track from its stated goals. But is anti-scientology really a good new religion?

alex (who expects to be relabeled an osa troll. perhaps emma will change my "status" lable to osa troll extrodinare.)

Jesus mate what type of clown are you? A substantial force of Australians? Its australians who built a fair bit of scientology in the beginings, and its Australians who are now calling bullshit on it. You look to have some kind of problem, and need to YANK your head out of your ASS.
 

byte301

Crusader
Jesus mate what type of clown are you? A substantial force of Australians? Its australians who built a fair bit of scientology in the beginings, and its Australians who are now calling bullshit on it. You look to have some kind of problem, and need to YANK your head out of your ASS.

LOL! That's a good post, grinder. I haven't seen alex post on here for quite awhile but he may lurk some.

Welcome to ESMB, by the way.

We love Aussies. :yes:
 

grinder

Patron
Nah. I agree with Alex. I don't see what Australianism has to do with anything, either. Yeast paste eaters! :omg:

Is yeast paste eater some yank insult? Girl you make no sense to me. But your pal voltaire says "If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." Scientology seems absurd.
 

RSG

Patron
I assume yeast paste refers to Vegemite. (for the record, I loathe the stuff!)

But wow, what a thread necromancy. :omg:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Is yeast paste eater some yank insult? Girl you make no sense to me. But your pal voltaire says "If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." Scientology seems absurd.

I like to tease Aussies for that vegemite thang...so incomprehensible to us Yanks... :coolwink:
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
No Alex

"My purpose in this thread is to point out the changing tone of the board overall, and what I see as the reason."

No Alex - your purpose is to defend the stupid abusive technology of L Ron Hubbard which caused and causes so much cruel harm for so many people all over the world.
You are free to do this here on ESMB - but you have to accept it without grumbling that more and more people here really wake up and find out that what LRH presented to his followers was just a big fraud.

Love

Markus
 
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