Nibs Tells Us the MO of Ron, SR.

bts2free

Patron with Honors
Thank you for posting this. Speaking the truth about L. Ron Hubbard is the new black. Well, it is! Or at least has become so due to recent "changes in the landscape..." The indoctrinated Scientologist would have you believe that Hubbard was "just a man" while at the same time *knowing* that he was really here on a mission to save this sector of the universe and all the rest of us from the dwindling downward spiral of existence - the most powerful Operating Thetan of them all. In other words, if Scientology doesn't make it world wide, were all fucked.

I still remember going to the Hollywood Palladium event where it was announced that Hubbard had "causatively" dropped his body in order to do further research of the upper levels of OT because at those levels "the body becomes an impediment." Yet, "he was just a man!" Bullshit. That event exists on YouTube I believe.

Fact if the matter is that L. Ron Hubbard was a mad man, and that's all documented. The sad thing is that Scientologists who were indoctrinated and brainwashed by the "Church" PR Machine believe that the documentation is all lies put in place by evil forces (hidden hands) that want to keep us trapped on this "prison planet." And per Hubbardian scripture when we die or "drop our bodies," we as thetans all report to implant stations set up in places in the solar system to install "forgetter implants" so that we can't recall our past lives. The evil Psychs on this planet are also all part of this conspiracy to keep us trapped and in the dark.

Hubbard lectures like "The Role of Earth", and "Between Lives Implants" should be checked out by those who really want to know what Hubbard was trying to get people to believe. He wanted all of us who were listening to him to maybe believe that we too were "Loyal Officers" ready to enlist in the war against the evil invader forces who were and are to this day keeping us trapped on this mud ball Earth, or uh... Teegeack.

Just read a few pages of the book "Have you lived before this life?" and ask yourself if that was possibly written by someone trippin' balls.

I'll side with Nibs. I think the proof is in the pudding and what Hubbard wanted you to really believe. Don't fall for the banana in the tailpipe routine of, "But this is all 'workable' technology: Dianetics, Tone Scale, ARC, KRC, Study Tech, Purif, etc..." To me those are all hooks or even smoke screens shading the juicy ingredients on the inside - of which you have to practically sell the shirt off your kid's back and your own house to attain.

There is a dark side of Hubbard, Scientology and the Tech that a lot of current believers don't like to look at or even acknowledge (NOT IS) because they (MUST HAVE) something to believe in, and for them, Hubbard had the only brand that made any sense. (At least the "good parts" of it.)

There should be a LOT more threads about L. Ron Hubbard and the Scam Cult of Scientology.

Should I prepare myself now for ESMB bouncers? :omg:
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Some aspects of Nibs recollections would be interpreted as he saw it and what he was told, Ron was an artful and believable liar. whats the term 'very convincing'

But running from cops and being there is a difficult thing to interpret any other way.

My moneys on Nibs too.

any info on when they were allegedly the 'band on the run'?

I'd hate to tell the world some family secrets, insights & dynamics and have someone have the audacity to psychoanalyze me and dispute my experiences and assertions. Some people just have a smug self righteousness about themselves that rubs me the wrong way, especially when all they assert is based upon the very type of dub in that separates people from reality, dub ins that substitute for reality like Scientology.. So I vote for Nibs as being sincere in his come clean with my solitary vote with no pretense of being an authority figure.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
The following statements were also made by Ron DeWolfe in that same interview claiming that Hubbard, Snr. bought St. Hill Manor with money made from selling military secrets to the Soviet Union:

The above assertions alone should be sufficient to raise serious questions about Ron DeWolfe's veracity with regard to any statements made about his Father.

Do you doubt that Hubbard made up a story about the KGB, or do you actually doubt that Hubbard would go through PC folders looking for information he could profit from?

Did everyone forget that Hubbard lived with Jack Parsons, known as the father of American rocketry ? The guy worked at Jet Propulsion Labs and its well documented that his home was a gathering spot for many of his coworkers from the labs and his Cal-Tech gang (along with loonies like Hubbard and other black magic enthusiasts). Not to mention LRH screwed Parson's wife and ran off with her.

So besides whatever auditing he might have conned some scientists to engage in I'm sure a wily grifter like LRH was quite adept at getting info. out of the many rocket scientists hanging out at Parson's home. If anything I'm sure LRH wanted the info. so he could spout off like he had some kind of scientific background (rather than failing freshman level nuclear physics in DC.) or insider knowledge about the US rocket programs. We all know how he loved to boast.

Anyway, its not out of the realm of possibility that he could have picked up some interesting information while around this crowd and sold it to the Russians. I certainly think he was amoral enough to and obviously was always looking for a quick buck. However, I do think its far fetched he would have been keen enough to pick up on specific technical details the Russians would have been interested in a few years later. The only thing he probably could have provided was juicy details about the personal lives of some of the scientists, which truth be told the Russians were also very interested in for blackmail purposes.

So, if he did sell secrets to the USSR it was probably about the wild sex stuff going on at Parson's house with the jet propulsion scientists. The Russians could then use the material to blackmail the scientists and get the real information they wanted.

I think its perfectly in line with LRH to boast to Nibs, and anyone else he wanted to impress with his never ending BS swashbuckling stories, that the way he bought St. Hill was selling secrets to the Ruskies - rather that the more mundane and probable truth that he conned lonely old ladies out of money via dianetic auditing and ripped off a bunch of people and organizations stateside.

I don't think it reflects on Nibs credibility over all. LRH was a pathological liar and with what Nibs did see of him he probably accepted the the story of the "selling secrets to the USSR" his father told him. The untrustworthy source in all this isn't Nibs, but his father who made a career out of lying. Can't expect Nibs, or almost anyone, to be able to discern what actual truth ever passed through LRH's lips. We all know LRH was adept a mixing little bits of truths with endless lies.

Also, we know LRH was obsessed with the Ruskies and the commies and even accused his second wife of being a commie to the FBI. So a fabrication about selling secrets to the USSR is totally in line with the bizarre fantasy world LRH created and he probably thought it made him sound very impressive and James Bond like.
 
Also a good read on Parson and Hubbard is "Strange Angel" by George Pendle. Info about Hubbard and Parsons starts on pag 252 when H. moves in with Parsons et al. at the Oragne Grove House.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for posting this. Speaking the truth about L. Ron Hubbard is the new black. Well, it is! Or at least has become so due to recent "changes in the landscape..." The indoctrinated Scientologist would have you believe that Hubbard was "just a man" while at the same time *knowing* that he was really here on a mission to save this sector of the universe and all the rest of us from the dwindling downward spiral of existence - the most powerful Operating Thetan of them all. In other words, if Scientology doesn't make it world wide, were all fucked.

I still remember going to the Hollywood Palladium event where it was announced that Hubbard had "causatively" dropped his body in order to do further research of the upper levels of OT because at those levels "the body becomes an impediment." Yet, "he was just a man!" Bullshit. That event exists on YouTube I believe.

Fact if the matter is that L. Ron Hubbard was a mad man, and that's all documented. The sad thing is that Scientologists who were indoctrinated and brainwashed by the "Church" PR Machine believe that the documentation is all lies put in place by evil forces (hidden hands) that want to keep us trapped on this "prison planet." And per Hubbardian scripture when we die or "drop our bodies," we as thetans all report to implant stations set up in places in the solar system to install "forgetter implants" so that we can't recall our past lives. The evil Psychs on this planet are also all part of this conspiracy to keep us trapped and in the dark.

Hubbard lectures like "The Role of Earth", and "Between Lives Implants" should be checked out by those who really want to know what Hubbard was trying to get people to believe. He wanted all of us who were listening to him to maybe believe that we too were "Loyal Officers" ready to enlist in the war against the evil invader forces who were and are to this day keeping us trapped on this mud ball Earth, or uh... Teegeack.

Just read a few pages of the book "Have you lived before this life?" and ask yourself if that was possibly written by someone trippin' balls.

I'll side with Nibs. I think the proof is in the pudding and what Hubbard wanted you to really believe. Don't fall for the banana in the tailpipe routine of, "But this is all 'workable' technology: Dianetics, Tone Scale, ARC, KRC, Study Tech, Purif, etc..." To me those are all hooks or even smoke screens shading the juicy ingredients on the inside - of which you have to practically sell the shirt off your kid's back and your own house to attain.

There is a dark side of Hubbard, Scientology and the Tech that a lot of current believers don't like to look at or even acknowledge (NOT IS) because they (MUST HAVE) something to believe in, and for them, Hubbard had the only brand that made any sense. (At least the "good parts" of it.)

There should be a LOT more threads about L. Ron Hubbard and the Scam Cult of Scientology.

Should I prepare myself now for ESMB bouncers? :omg:

The thing about Scientology ... it is a one of a kind cult. In a way, it reminds me of the famous "pet rock" of the mid 70's. After that fad played out, nobody else who tried to do anything similar to it enjoyed a great deal of success.

A lot of why the HubTurd's game has lasted as long as it has, besides hiding behind the protection of freedom of religion, is the intrigue. In addition to some things that are kinda sorta workable sometimes is all the mystique of becoming oatee, and, of course, the price ... which gets rid of the casual inquirer fairly early on and pairs down the flock to be sheered to those who have or are dedicated to coming up with enough wool.

Like the pet rock, the days of Cof$ are pretty much at an end, and hopefully the final bits of mystery will be unraveled, like the last episode of a soap opera. But if someone were to start another cult, trying to do another Cof$ won't fly.

Pete
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
A full text copy of the Ron DeWolfe Penthouse Interview of published in the June 1983 issue can be found on Arnie Lerma's web site. At the time of the interview, "Nibs" was attempting to have his father Ron Hubbard declared either dead or mentally incompetent and take control of Hubbard's estate. This lawsuit was dismissed on June 27th, 1983.

The following statements were also made by Ron DeWolfe in that same interview claiming that Hubbard, Snr. bought St. Hill Manor with money made from selling military secrets to the Soviet Union:



The above assertions alone should be sufficient to raise serious questions about Ron DeWolfe's veracity with regard to any statements made about his Father.

Isolating one statement as fanciful & not true, and then saying all statements from the same source are not true , is Scientologys standard attack method.

Multiple witness testimony only adds to a picture, you could argue its viewpoints and people view things differently. And add a personal motive to gain something , to discredit the source as reliable.

Nibs may have believed many things his father told him, but experiencing his father give him drugs, and Hub Sr take drugs, and then have others confirm they saw Hubbard on cocaine, speed, self medicating , drug cabinets, i think its denial to not accept the evidence.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
any ideas on why Ron Hubbard was compulsively washing himself and his clothes since the 50s?

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,

pananoia of BTs ?

lifetime of cocaine/speed use ?

from the penthouse interview Nibs says here ,

50's
"He got very strange in the fifties. He had to have his clothes washed and washed and washed. He would take showers half a dozen times a day. I have often wondered if all of this might have been caused by the massive amounts of drugs and medication he took."

Piece of blue sky 1977
The CMO Household Unit would rinse Hubbard's washing seven and later as many as seventeen times to rid it of the vaguest hint of the smell of soap.

He frequently exploded if he found dust or dirt or smelled soap in his clothes. That is why we used 13 buckets to rinse ....
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
any ideas on why Ron Hubbard was compulsively washing himself and his clothes since the 50s?

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,

pananoia of BTs ?

lifetime of cocaine/speed use ?

from the penthouse interview Nibs says here ,

50's
"He got very strange in the fifties. He had to have his clothes washed and washed and washed. He would take showers half a dozen times a day. I have often wondered if all of this might have been caused by the massive amounts of drugs and medication he took."

Piece of blue sky 1977
The CMO Household Unit would rinse Hubbard's washing seven and later as many as seventeen times to rid it of the vaguest hint of the smell of soap.

He frequently exploded if he found dust or dirt or smelled soap in his clothes. That is why we used 13 buckets to rinse ....

Yup. Makes sense why there were also a number of SO Flag Orders regarding the use of scented products. No SO Member to this day is allowed to use any sort of cleaning product that has any sort of odor or scent including detergents, deodorants, hair products or even perfumes. In one Flag Order from Ron (and I forget the title) about perfumes, he described how the psychs invented scents in perfumes as a literal weapon against us.

Here's an essay from Jesse Prince on that subject as well. It says a lot about Hubbard on this particular topic and how insane the man was:

http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=2836

Why Scientologists Don't Use Scents
by Jesse Prince
Aug 30, 2000

Hard to imagine, but not every tale from the cult involves criminal activity. Sometimes it’s just plain old bizarre, like this one here. You may have noticed (especially public Scientologist) that the staff of Sea Org organizations have very strong opinions about how one smells. In particular, Sea Org members can’t stand the smell of scented products. How odd it is that ALL Sea Org members reject the smell of perfume or cologne and act like you have committed a crime if a person should indulge in such.

Odd behavior indeed! All Sea Org members are trained to reject “scents” because Hubbard ordered it so. In the same matter in which he ordered Sea Org members are forbidden to own a television This goes a long way to explain why Sea Org members seem so out of touch with just about any and everything, fashion and trends for sure. It’s all to clear to free thinking people why the control of information is important if you want to create a “loyal” goon squad and keep them in the dark. Even someone as stupid and destructive as Adolph Hitler knew that one!

Anyway, there is a reason and an exact story of why Sea Org members’ are not allowed the simple pleasure of being able to experience smells or perfume or scented products, and I’ll tell it to you now.

The year was 1984. Hubbard was on an up swing of one of his manic depressive mood swings. Hubbard started out writing something about the use of computers on the whole track ( whole track = existence and civilizations that pre date any earthly recorded time period) and somehow got into a rant about tar-coal perfume. Hubbard discovered that everything he touched had the scent of rose perfume, which was derived from tar-coal. Hubbard said the rose scent permeated all new clothes as the sizing used on new clothes was the same tar coal rose perfume that greatly irritated his nose and skin. Being highly sensitive because of his OTness, Hubbard quickly lost patience for anything that smelled of rose perfume. I guess you could spend a day reading all of the “advices” Hubbard came up with concerning rose perfume. Like the BT (body thetan) story, Hubbard discovered EVERYTHING smelled like rose perfume! All of his clothes smelt like it, every piece of paper sent to him from Int Management and RTC smelt like it. The poor man was plagued by cheap rose perfume and when Hubbard was miserable everyone around or connected to him shared the misery.

Hubbard was an avid smoker of cigarettes, Kool non filter to be exact and smoked no less than three packs a day. Anyone who smokes or has smoked knows the sense of smell is greatly affected by the fact of smoking.

Missions and projects were fired out to find or create a line of soap products that were scentless. Chemist were hired, and a new line of soap products were created. At great expense, a new line of shampoo and conditioner, laundry soap, body lotion, hand soap, industrial cleaning soap….you name it. All the while, the hysteria created by Hubbard for the dreaded rose perfume got worse and worse.

Hubbard was close by Golden Era Productions out in Hemet and had a team of 6 people that did nothing but clean a house he lived in a few times a week. This team was also responsible for doing his laundry. Hubbard and his messengers developed new tech for handling his laundry. The procedure was to take a brand new shirt or other new article of clothing and wash it is six separate tubs of water by hand three times. That’s 18 separate wash cycles! To rinse, the article was rinsed in six different tubs of clear water three times. The end product was a new shirt that was now thread bare and falling apart. Not to be stopped, there was a special sewer posted that would sew up the ruined shirt. The shirt would be dried outside on a clothes line, put in a plastic bag and sent on to Hubbard.

Hubbard had a fit again as he said he could still smell the rose perfume. He figured the smell was coming from the plastic bags his thread bare clothes were being sent to him in. Lower conditions were assigned to everyone connected with the project as poor little Hubbard had no clothes to wear!

During this same time period, Hubbard had ordered Scientology celebs to create a music score for his books, the Mission Earth series. I’m sure some here have had the unfortunate experience of hearing this load of crap. Very similar to the Battlefield Earth movie, crap. Anyway, it was time to mix the album down and the same producer/engineer who mixed Michel Jackson’s Thriller album was employed at great expense to try and do something with the terminally ill music score project. The name of this person is Bruce Swadean (sp?). Bruce came with his wife as I guess he was afraid to be alone in Scientology’s top management facilities. After two days in the studio, a staff member was told to handle Bruce’s wife because she was stinking up Hubbard’s studio with her nasty perfume. Of course Davey is the one who ordered this to be done. A girl named Mary, got the task and she pulled Bruce’s wife aside while Bruce was in the studio trying to raise the unborn dead and told her she would have to handle herself as she was stinking up Hubbard’s nice music studio with her smelly perfume. To say the least, the woman was horrified by the shear rudeness of what had just happened and ran into the studio and told her husband about it.

Without missing a beat, Bruce stood up and told Rick Cruzen, Charlie Rush, Peter Slesh (sp?) just how wacky he really thought they all were and left the building never to be seen or heard from again. No matter how much Davey had people beg Bruce, he would not come back to the Golden Era Production concentration camp.

Lower conditions for all concerned again! See how the misery is spread!

Now every piece of paper sent to Hubbard from Int Management and RTC had the dreaded rose perfume smell and lower conditions were flying around in CMO Int. Now the only way to send something to Hubbard was through Marc Yeager who was the Commanding Officer of CMO Int until he messed it up too. Hubbard decided Marc Yeager was full of overts as his perception had to be way down if he was not able to smell the rose perfume! Everyone thought Marc had a good nose because between Davey, Marc and me, Marc was the only one who did not smoke cigarettes, wrong again. Marc is now writing up his overts and withholds and doing conditions for sending up the dreaded rose perfume smell to Hubbard.

This horrified the hell out of me because I knew my ticket was next. Sure enough Davey and Vickie tell me it’s my turn to go to the ovens and neither one had any advice as to what I should do. Both had already been smelling everything that was sent up to Hubbard and they missed it too. Davey smoked at least 2 packs of Camel non filter cigarettes and I smoked about a pack and a half. What was I suppose to smell?

The question going through my mind was what had I done to get put in this horrible position? How much pain and humiliation would I have to suffer before it was over for me and just how over for me would it be? Every bit of perfume had been taken from all the staff and destroyed. Half of the newly created line of scentless products were found to be defective and further test were being done to find the rest defective. I remember sitting in my office with boxes of dispatches and laundry ready to be sent to Hubbard, all I had to do was give it the old smell test and all would be fine. When you are alone there is no one to pretend for. I opened the boxes, looked inside and put the lids back on, no reason to smell. I sat there for what I thought would seem a reasonable amount of time for a person to smell this crap. During this interlude, I was wondering if I had recently done anything that would make Hubbard like me and thus spare me. A few things came to mind (and I’ll tell these later) but to tell the truth, I didn’t feel very confident for keeping my head.

Anyway the stuff went up and came back. Hubbard was pleased and said the smell was greatly reduced, though not fully handled. Hubbard discovered the dreaded rose smell was coming from the ink in the pens people had used to sign off that they had checked for smells and found none! I can’t tell you how relieved we all were, me especially. After a few weeks Hubbard forgot about the dreaded rose perfume smell and found other things to rant about.

Hubbard had an amazing ability to write down EVERYTHING and soon a new commandment was issued about smells. Hubbard even tied it in with the psychs evil plan to kill us all. This is why and how the whole group of Sea Org and even most Scientology public can’t/won’t wear scented products.

All I can say is thank God Hubbard found out about visteril before he passed on. Life for the poor Sea Org members and public could have been a lot worse.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I kinew Nibs this lifetime, and I liked him quuite a lot. He took good care of his wife and child, and was helpful to those of us who did know him.
He was a family man, and considerate and thoughtful, and a helluva good auditor.
What was it, exactly, during your "last lifetime" that you did not like about Nibs?

challenge

We all have different experiences and takes on people. There's no way you cannot know that. Absolutely no way. I don't believe it. Nuh uh.

It would be an incredibly dull and dimwitted world if we all had the same opinions of people, issues, situations and events as everyone else did, wouldn't it?

An example of this is-- I have many many friends and am thought highly of in some circles and yet...umm......

So I will continue to weigh in on those who inspire me negatively, positively, any which way but loose. After all, I have your own very excellent example to follow.

Love ya!
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
any ideas on why Ron Hubbard was compulsively washing himself and his clothes since the 50s?

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,

pananoia of BTs ?

lifetime of cocaine/speed use ?

from the penthouse interview Nibs says here ,

50's
"He got very strange in the fifties. He had to have his clothes washed and washed and washed. He would take showers half a dozen times a day. I have often wondered if all of this might have been caused by the massive amounts of drugs and medication he took."

Piece of blue sky 1977
The CMO Household Unit would rinse Hubbard's washing seven and later as many as seventeen times to rid it of the vaguest hint of the smell of soap.

He frequently exploded if he found dust or dirt or smelled soap in his clothes. That is why we used 13 buckets to rinse ....


LRH was a garden variety tweaker.
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Isolating one statement as fanciful & not true, and then saying all statements from the same source are not true , is Scientologys standard attack method.

Multiple witness testimony only adds to a picture, you could argue its viewpoints and people view things differently. And add a personal motive to gain something , to discredit the source as reliable.

Nibs may have believed many things his father told him, but experiencing his father give him drugs, and Hub Sr take drugs, and then have others confirm they saw Hubbard on cocaine, speed, self medicating , drug cabinets, i think its denial to not accept the evidence.



A little note on this giving a child drugs: in the 30s ( I was born in 1931), it was not an unusual practice to put a few drops of Paragoric in a baby's bottle to keep him from crying, or help him to rest. It was common practice.
Putting a drug in a kid's bubblegum is not too far from that.
Also, remember that Coca-Cola was originally laced with Cocaine.
This statement from Nibs does not seem to me to be so 'out-of- belief' so as to render his testimony unreliable.

You who down-do Nibs and have a hard time accepting his data, are entitled to your opinion., for that's ALL it is....opinion... and you never met him, you didn't know him, you didn't know the many people that he helped thru his simple caring for them.

Do carry on with your "it's all DM's fault. LRH would never lie , would never sell secrets to the Soviets, would never use drugs, blah blah blah".
Pisses me off when a one denigrates the peeps ( such as Nibs, Caroline Letkeman, Arnie Lerma, Tory, and so forth) and kisses up to the likes of Marty Rathbun and other FZ nuts who can't see the truth of the bloody subject.

" It's not the 'tech', its' policy, it's heavy ethics, it's the high prices."
Sure, it's all those things, and at the bottom of the ladder, orchestrating every move, is L. Ron Hubbard. Well, you say, " he is dead". True fact. Also true is the fact that his legacy lives on in scn.


challenge
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
A little note on this giving a child drugs: in the 30s ( I was born in 1931), it was not an unusual practice to put a few drops of Paragoric in a baby's bottle to keep him from crying, or help him to rest. It was common practice.
Putting a drug in a kid's bubblegum is not too far from that.
Also, remember that Coca-Cola was originally laced with Cocaine.
This statement from Nibs does not seem to me to be so 'out-of- belief' so as to render his testimony unreliable.

You who down-do Nibs and have a hard time accepting his data, are entitled to your opinion., for that's ALL it is....opinion... and you never met him, you didn't know him, you didn't know the many people that he helped thru his simple caring for them.

Do carry on with your "it's all DM's fault. LRH would never lie , would never sell secrets to the Soviets, would never use drugs, blah blah blah".
Pisses me off when a one denigrates the peeps ( such as Nibs, Caroline Letkeman, Arnie Lerma, Tory, and so forth) and kisses up to the likes of Marty Rathbun and other FZ nuts who can't see the truth of the bloody subject.

" It's not the 'tech', its' policy, it's heavy ethics, it's the high prices."
Sure, it's all those things, and at the bottom of the ladder, orchestrating every move, is L. Ron Hubbard. Well, you say, " he is dead". True fact. Also true is the fact that his legacy lives on in scn.


challenge

Yah, I think the observations about the paregoric and all sound spot on, from what I've been told and have read.

I've never felt it was all just DM. Once I figured out CofS was lying to me, I got in touch with people who explained and proved to me that it was stuff LRH wrote and things LRH did that caused many of the problems and abusive practices in CofS. Though, IMO, DM is worse. Still, without Hubbard's actions, none of these problems would be with us now.

There are also lots of FZ people who would not agree with this statement and there are also lots who would agree with it.

However, I do not understand why some people- whether in or out of the critic's scene- should have a kha khan status of sorts or something akin to it, but that this would not apply to everyone. I'm sorry but if I were to deal with someone who never treated me with any common decency, that would figure largely in my estimation of that person. And I'd be entirely free to discuss it. And if I were to deal with anyone else who said things I disagreed with or did anything I disagreed with, pundit or uber critic or no, I'd feel free to discuss it.

And that's as it should be.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
A little note on this giving a child drugs: in the 30s ( I was born in 1931), it was not an unusual practice to put a few drops of Paragoric in a baby's bottle to keep him from crying, or help him to rest. It was common practice.
Putting a drug in a kid's bubblegum is not too far from that.
Also, remember that Coca-Cola was originally laced with Cocaine.
This statement from Nibs does not seem to me to be so 'out-of- belief' so as to render his testimony unreliable.

You who down-do Nibs and have a hard time accepting his data, are entitled to your opinion., for that's ALL it is....opinion... and you never met him, you didn't know him, you didn't know the many people that he helped thru his simple caring for them.

Do carry on with your "it's all DM's fault. LRH would never lie , would never sell secrets to the Soviets, would never use drugs, blah blah blah".
Pisses me off when a one denigrates the peeps ( such as Nibs, Caroline Letkeman, Arnie Lerma, Tory, and so forth) and kisses up to the likes of Marty Rathbun and other FZ nuts who can't see the truth of the bloody subject.

" It's not the 'tech', its' policy, it's heavy ethics, it's the high prices."
Sure, it's all those things, and at the bottom of the ladder, orchestrating every move, is L. Ron Hubbard. Well, you say, " he is dead". True fact. Also true is the fact that his legacy lives on in scn.


challenge

I didn't know Nibs but I sure enough knew El Ron...that's why I'm confident that here is much and important truth in Nibs' words. They that disparage Nibs never walked in his shoes and have no idea what it was like to be around Hisself.

Kids were being given tranquillizers from mother’s little help box in the ‘50’s to get them to shut up or “settle down” and not be trouble for the evening, etc. I know…I was one of them.

Face:)
 
... However, I do not understand why some people- whether in or out of the critic's scene- should have a kha khan status of sorts or something akin to it, but that this would not apply to everyone. ...

I've long been a cynical [email protected] but on my first reading of the 'kha khan' policy it was obvious to me that this was written by lrh precisely to give a formal basis of organizational immunity for any and all possible failings to himself and that that was the sole reason for inscribing it as policy. Afterall clearly ron has accomplished so much more for the benefit of all than anyone else. :)

Writing the policy in a fashion where it did not simply state 'lrh is granted eternal immunity' but was instead drafted more generally so as to seem to be an acknowledgement of respect for accomplishment granted potentially to any scientologist was simply good organizational politics.

By giving the appearance of 'equal treatment' for all kha khans hubbard gave the appearance of himself being modest, unassuming, and fair. All of this served as grist for the legends of his benevolence & magnamity. The reality is that any kha khan, except lrh, was only as safe as hubbard & his agents may have been feeling gracious at the time. Kha Khan's who earned disfavor from on high were routinely thrown under the bus without regard to their prior achievements.

Although the status of kha khan seemed to accord a great respect for its recipients, it was in actuality a 'cheap honor' worth no more than the ink in which it was issued. Anyone holding it to be a 'prized honor' simply missed the actual point of the pl: Keeping Source Whitewashed.


Mark A. Baker
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah Kha Khans are no different from getting a certificate as a dianetics auditor, all expendable , an illusion.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
A little note on this giving a child drugs: in the 30s ( I was born in 1931), it was not an unusual practice to put a few drops of Paragoric in a baby's bottle to keep him from crying, or help him to rest. It was common practice.
Putting a drug in a kid's bubblegum is not too far from that.
Also, remember that Coca-Cola was originally laced with Cocaine.
This statement from Nibs does not seem to me to be so 'out-of- belief' so as to render his testimony unreliable.

You who down-do Nibs and have a hard time accepting his data, are entitled to your opinion., for that's ALL it is....opinion... and you never met him, you didn't know him, you didn't know the many people that he helped thru his simple caring for them.

Do carry on with your "it's all DM's fault. LRH would never lie , would never sell secrets to the Soviets, would never use drugs, blah blah blah".
Pisses me off when a one denigrates the peeps ( such as Nibs, Caroline Letkeman, Arnie Lerma, Tory, and so forth) and kisses up to the likes of Marty Rathbun and other FZ nuts who can't see the truth of the bloody subject.

" It's not the 'tech', its' policy, it's heavy ethics, it's the high prices."
Sure, it's all those things, and at the bottom of the ladder, orchestrating every move, is L. Ron Hubbard. Well, you say, " he is dead". True fact. Also true is the fact that his legacy lives on in scn.


challenge

yeah i believe most of what Nibs says esp about the drugs and everything he did with his dad, History of Man etc, , i dont know about the Russian secrets thing to buy St Hill manor though, he was told thats what it was.

Any other experiences you recall about Ron Sr on drugs?
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Thank you for posting this. Speaking the truth about L. Ron Hubbard is the new black. Well, it is! Or at least has become so due to recent "changes in the landscape..." The indoctrinated Scientologist would have you believe that Hubbard was "just a man" while at the same time *knowing* that he was really here on a mission to save this sector of the universe and all the rest of us from the dwindling downward spiral of existence - the most powerful Operating Thetan of them all. In other words, if Scientology doesn't make it world wide, were all fucked.

I still remember going to the Hollywood Palladium event where it was announced that Hubbard had "causatively" dropped his body in order to do further research of the upper levels of OT because at those levels "the body becomes an impediment." Yet, "he was just a man!" Bullshit. That event exists on YouTube I believe.

Fact if the matter is that L. Ron Hubbard was a mad man, and that's all documented. The sad thing is that Scientologists who were indoctrinated and brainwashed by the "Church" PR Machine believe that the documentation is all lies put in place by evil forces (hidden hands) that want to keep us trapped on this "prison planet." And per Hubbardian scripture when we die or "drop our bodies," we as thetans all report to implant stations set up in places in the solar system to install "forgetter implants" so that we can't recall our past lives. The evil Psychs on this planet are also all part of this conspiracy to keep us trapped and in the dark.

Hubbard lectures like "The Role of Earth", and "Between Lives Implants" should be checked out by those who really want to know what Hubbard was trying to get people to believe. He wanted all of us who were listening to him to maybe believe that we too were "Loyal Officers" ready to enlist in the war against the evil invader forces who were and are to this day keeping us trapped on this mud ball Earth, or uh... Teegeack.

Just read a few pages of the book "Have you lived before this life?" and ask yourself if that was possibly written by someone trippin' balls.

I'll side with Nibs. I think the proof is in the pudding and what Hubbard wanted you to really believe. Don't fall for the banana in the tailpipe routine of, "But this is all 'workable' technology: Dianetics, Tone Scale, ARC, KRC, Study Tech, Purif, etc..." To me those are all hooks or even smoke screens shading the juicy ingredients on the inside - of which you have to practically sell the shirt off your kid's back and your own house to attain.

There is a dark side of Hubbard, Scientology and the Tech that a lot of current believers don't like to look at or even acknowledge (NOT IS) because they (MUST HAVE) something to believe in, and for them, Hubbard had the only brand that made any sense. (At least the "good parts" of it.)

There should be a LOT more threads about L. Ron Hubbard and the Scam Cult of Scientology.

Should I prepare myself now for ESMB bouncers? :omg:

Hey you! :coolwink:

Why would you think you are gunna get bounced from ESMB? I freaking love you dude!
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I've long been a cynical [email protected] but on my first reading of the 'kha khan' policy it was obvious to me that this was written by lrh precisely to give a formal basis of organizational immunity for any and all possible failings to himself and that that was the sole reason for inscribing it as policy. Afterall clearly ron has accomplished so much more for the benefit of all than anyone else. :)

Writing the policy in a fashion where it did not simply state 'lrh is granted eternal immunity' but was instead drafted more generally so as to seem to be an acknowledgement of respect for accomplishment granted potentially to any scientologist was simply good organizational politics.

By giving the appearance of 'equal treatment' for all kha khans hubbard gave the appearance of himself being modest, unassuming, and fair. All of this served as grist for the legends of his benevolence & magnamity. The reality is that any kha khan, except lrh, was only as safe as hubbard & his agents may have been feeling gracious at the time. Kha Khan's who earned disfavor from on high were routinely thrown under the bus without regard to their prior achievements.

Although the status of kha khan seemed to accord a great respect for its recipients, it was in actuality a 'cheap honor' worth no more than the ink in which it was issued. Anyone holding it to be a 'prized honor' simply missed the actual point of the pl: Keeping Source Whitewashed.


Mark A. Baker

Right. I agree. However, dearheart, I was talking about the occasionally repeated canard that certain critics (but not necessarily other ones)- who are, for some reason, actually named in this thread- deserve more consideration than others and should not be criticized.

To me that's a kha khan status of sorts.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23420-Punditry&p=579734&viewfull=1#post579734

And I would also like to take the opportunity to remind the board that, once again, I did not bring up any of the people who, in addition to Nibs, were named in this thread. But since it's brought up, my response to that post and this one here cover it nicely.

And I'm right.
 
Right. I agree. However, dearheart, I was talking about the occasionally repeated canard that certain critics (but not necessarily other ones)- who are, for some reason, actually named in this thread- deserve more consideration than others and should not be criticized.

To me that's a kha khan status of sorts.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23420-Punditry&p=579734&viewfull=1#post579734
...

Understood. :yes:

My point: those who seemingly accord 'kha khan' status to individuals in the fz are precisely those who accept the kha khan policy as 'true' and who also deem lrh to be a permanent 'kha khan'. :eyeroll:

The specific insanity as expressed by irrational attitudes among some freezoners is merely the continuance of the earlier insanity originated by hubbard for hubbard. They never spotted the self-serving hypocrisy of the title and so they continue to dramatize it.


Mark A. Baker
 
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