Nibs Tells Us the MO of Ron, SR.

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Right, Mark, you can take a person out of the cult, but...

Someone needs to explain to Challenge (again) that

(Reverence of) Punditry is stupid. Critics do not get kha khan statuses.

If a critic happens to do something to which someone else takes exception or disagrees, then that person can discuss it freely. The people she names do not get a free pass anymore than you, or I or anyone else would. No one gets a free pass.

These other critics keep getting brought up as are my comments about Nibs. It would make a lot more sense if, say, the comment represented an opinion that it is never ok to find fault with anyone at all. But over and over, I see that some people can be talked about but others cannot be. This is one of the most dangerously foolish viewpoints I have ever seen on a critical forum. Yes, we're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others.

And this exchange is between people who live in a country that has the First Amendment!

I think anyone who thinks this way should ditch the cultic mindset where some people are beyond reproach- I left a cult that keep telling me that. I would think that other ex members would get it.

I left the cult over free speech. That's one of the many things for which they are criticized. They don't let anyone say anything about Hubbard, DM or anyone "in charge".

Now,on this thread I only said I knew Nibs last lifetime, didn't think much of him. I do not stoop to the kinds of comments made by those screaming the loudest about the various old guard critics named in this thread.
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Right, Mark, you can take a person out of the cult, but...

Someone needs to explain to Challenge (again) that

(Reverence of) Punditry is stupid. Critics do not get kha khan statuses.

If a critic happens to do something to which someone else takes exception or disagrees, then that person can discuss it freely. The people she names do not get a free pass anymore than you, or I or anyone else would. No one gets a free pass.

These other critics keep getting brought up as are my comments about Nibs. It would make a lot more sense if, say, the comment represented an opinion that it is never ok to find fault with anyone at all. But over and over, I see that some people can be talked about but others cannot be. This is one of the most dangerously foolish viewpoints I have ever seen on a critical forum. Yes, we're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others.

And this exchange is between people who live in a country that has the First Amendment!

I think anyone who thinks this way should ditch the cultic mindset where some people are beyond reproach- I left a cult that keep telling me that. I would think that other ex members would get it.

I left the cult over free speech. That's one of the many things for which they are criticized. They don't let anyone say anything about Hubbard, DM or anyone "in charge".

Now,on this thread I only said I knew Nibs last lifetime, didn't think much of him. I do not stoop to the kinds of comments made by those screaming the loudest about the various old guard critics named in this thread.


Claire, I pointed it out because, as anyone can see, you 'dislike' those who are most effective in the critic's scene.

It started out that way on ARS when you were "a scientologist".

It has been my hope that you, too, would spot this pattern and perhaps evaluate these peeps 'in a new unit of time'.
No one is talking or even thinking about "reverence". Simply respect for effective criticism.

I see that changing your view would make you not "right".
So, fuck it.


love ya


Challenge
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yeah Kha Khans are no different from getting a certificate as a dianetics auditor, all expendable , an illusion.


Didja ever know Larry West ( Lawrence West)?
Larry was awarded Kha Kahn status one day and was sued by cos a week later.
One has to be dull as a bag of rocks to think that Kha Kahn means anything special.


Challenge
 
Claire, I pointed it out because, as anyone can see, you 'dislike' those who are most effective in the critic's scene. ...

Well, C, we all have different likes & dislikes, such things are personal & often not completely rational. Just because someone is perceived as 'effective' that doesn't mean that others will necessarily find them to be admirable. Nor, does it imply that the generally admired one is necessarily an admirable person. Note all those members of the church who like & admire lrh.

Whatever your views on Claire's eccentricities or preferences, Claire's point of the innate irrationality that that a person should be expected to like someone simply because, for some reason, others may is a valid one. You should have heard what my grandmother had to say about Franklin Delano Roosevelt while she was alive. :whistling:

Fact is she likes whom she likes for her own reasons. You are free to hold different perspectives.


Mark A. Baker
 
... One has to be dull as a bag of rocks to think that Kha Kahn means anything special.


Challenge

Don't know about that, C. I'm inclined to think that being officially named kha khan marks one out for special consideration as a target of opportunity. :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Claire, I pointed it out because, as anyone can see, you 'dislike' those who are most effective in the critic's scene.

It started out that way on ARS when you were "a scientologist".

It has been my hope that you, too, would spot this pattern and perhaps evaluate these peeps 'in a new unit of time'.
No one is talking or even thinking about "reverence". Simply respect for effective criticism.

I see that changing your view would make you not "right".
So, fuck it.


love ya


Challenge

No, it didn't start out that way on ARS. I didn't like those who were rude to me. By the way, one of the ones with whom I'd had a lot of confrontations back then has apologized to me on at least three occasions since. Unsolicited.

Anyway, were your thesis correct, I'd not think as highly of Pooks, Emma, Jon Duignan, Dennis Ehrlich, the Chanology/Anon movement as I do - and I've gone on record posting props each of them. I like Paul Salerno quite a bit, too. I've posted props to Carmel and many other critics, too. I know Amy Scobee and her husband and am incredibly proud of them. I get along quite well with them. I also recognize the many contributions the so called Buttersquashers have made and also Patricia Greenway, who assisted Andrew Morton greatly. I think that Bob Minton did do some good things but then made too many mistakes. One person whose contributions I value greatly - and I've said so- is Mick Wenlock. His thread here about his experiences is infuckingcredible. I've actually sent the URL to people.

Soooo...where's that "pattern"? I mean, facts seem to greatly belie what you just said, don't they.

I recall once saying something on OCMB about a post you wrote on ARS that I thought was really good. (about the cult making all those "natural clears") Although I did get my hand slapped for saying that.

I've never dismissed anyone because they were an effective critic, though I certainly have for other reasons. And even on such occasions where I have done so, I've also given credit to the things they did do that I thought were good. I don't like to do the all or nothing thing, although I do think CofS is completely unsalvageable and has been that way for years. I suppose that's a bit on the black and white side, but too many facts pointing in that direction.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Don't know about that, C. I'm inclined to think that being officially named kha khan marks one out for special consideration as a target of opportunity. :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker

Yet right here and now, the idea that some critics are beyond reproach is being posted. If that's not similar to a kha khan status, I don't know what would be.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Given the very large list of major critics to whom I've given props in the past and have listed today, I would say that Challenge has gotten her wish.

You're welcome.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Beyond reproach? How so ?

Well, there've been numerous posts -including some on this thread- bringing up various critics, where it is opined that those afore mentioned folks should never be criticized. Particularly by...umm...some people.

That means they are considered beyond reproach. Which is like a khakhan status.

It's also further been falsely opined that I don't like certain folks because they are effective. Actually, that's never been my deal. I don't like people who do not treat me well and I do not agree with opinions that I think are stupid or crazy. Same as anyone else on the planet. And if I see an awful lot of opinions with which I disagree, well, critic or no, Scn or politics or basketweaving- doesn't matter- I'm not gonna have much to say in support of that person.

As I said, were that thesis correct, the many (very well known and effective) old guard AND new (Anons) critics (named in my reply to Challenge) to whom I've publicly given props, emotional and moral and written support and in some cases money would not have received those props, support, encouragement and money.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Didja ever know Larry West ( Lawrence West)?
Larry was awarded Kha Kahn status one day and was sued by cos a week later.
One has to be dull as a bag of rocks to think that Kha Kahn means anything special.


Challenge

Never knew Larry, must have lit up his eyes.

Right now all those in a frenzy getting their commendations stuffed in their ethics files, certificates for levels, and it means nothing if the wrong comment comes out of their mouths.
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
Hey you! :coolwink:

Why would you think you are gunna get bounced from ESMB? I freaking love you dude!


Aw, thanks Emma! (blush)

Jeez, where in the hell did this thread go? Who cares about Kha Khans 'n shit? Or how we can't talk about other critics or not. I'll talk about anyone I damn well please, and that includes Marty. :p So there.

Sheesh Claire, why do so many threads end up with you and others beating the ARS and "the way things were" horse, and then you having to defend your point of view about Scientology, or the Tech or how someone's too critical, or not critical enough, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? Regardless, I love you too Claire. And Emma.

Now, who has more dirt on the old man?

:omg:
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I want moar about L Ron Hubbard on Heroin Cocaine and Speed LSD to get his confidence up..

i find the idea of Ron being the loaded stage man releasing all those words and all those years students in academies word clearing over and over his drug induced messages..

The biggest Joke of all is CoS top management knows all about it.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Tell you what I want...once read a site that more or less tracked Hubbard's residences.

Talk about Fabian!

Sometimes it seemed he moved twice a week! And they were HUGE moves like from NY to CA and back. This was before the war and during...crazy stuff but very fitting to all his fret and fuss and NOW! NOW! NOW! urgency/emergency!

Like in the GREAT SCOTT! telegram about his fake diploma where everything hinged on it being delivered.

This was during a time where I think he was really being hounded by creditors and so it probably was just his squid ink to avoid them.

This ring a bell with anybody? ...urls please...
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Aw, thanks Emma! (blush)

Jeez, where in the hell did this thread go? Who cares about Kha Khans 'n shit? Or how we can't talk about other critics or not. I'll talk about anyone I damn well please, and that includes Marty. :p So there.

Sheesh Claire, why do so many threads end up with you and others beating the ARS and "the way things were" horse, and then you having to defend your point of view about Scientology, or the Tech or how someone's too critical, or not critical enough, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? Regardless, I love you too Claire. And Emma.

Now, who has more dirt on the old man?

:omg:

I think you're awesome.:)
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Beyond reproach? How so ?


Apparently, that is what is thought when someone asks "why don't you like ____?
No reason is ever given.

This " I didn't like Nibs, and I don't like Caroline" comes ( repeatedly) from the same person who, a couple months ago, chided some poster who said that he didn't like someone.
Neither the one that he said he disliked is prominent here, nor is the guy who said it.

I have had no less than 7 people tell me that reading Caroline Letkeman's essays are what got them out of cos.

Anyways, Claire told him that such a statement is "divisive" ( to the Board), and he shouldn't have said it.

I just find that staggering hypocrisy.

I will reply to down- doing about peeps that i love, when I choose to, just as Claire defends those she calls her friend
I am not here to get someone to talk to me. I am here to help those that I can to find their way out of the trap they find themselves in, or to stay out of the trap entirely.

I know that the peeps that I mentioned earlier, those that Claire dislikes, represent the most effective contributors that I know of in accomplishing that. They do it with provable facts and quotations from cos own writings. ( I forgot to mention Ladybird, who has at her own risk, posted many of the cos scriptures to OCMB and here). They do it with innumerable videos and sites and pickets and letter writing etc etc.etc.
I have to go. I have a busy life.

Challenge

Challenge







Challenge
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
BTs2free,

I'm not interested in the way things used to be on ARS. But I have replied to some posts where others brought it up.

It's more that I have my...errrm...fan club.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Apparently, that is what is thought when someone asks "why don't you like ____?
No reason is ever given.

This " I didn't like Nibs, and I don't like Caroline" comes ( repeatedly) from the same person who, a couple months ago, chided some poster who said that he didn't like someone.
Neither the one that he said he disliked is prominent here, nor is the guy who said it.

I have had no less than 7 people tell me that reading Caroline Letkeman's essays are what got them out of cos.

Anyways, Claire told him that such a statement is "divisive" ( to the Board), and he shouldn't have said it.

I just find that staggering hypocrisy.

I will reply to down- doing about peeps that i love, when I choose to, just as Claire defends those she calls her friend
I am not here to get someone to talk to me. I am here to help those that I can to find their way out of the trap they find themselves in, or to stay out of the trap entirely.

I know that the peeps that I mentioned earlier, those that Claire dislikes, represent the most effective contributors that I know of in accomplishing that. They do it with provable facts and quotations from cos own writings. ( I forgot to mention Ladybird, who has at her own risk, posted many of the cos scriptures to OCMB and here). They do it with innumerable videos and sites and pickets and letter writing etc etc.etc.
I have to go. I have a busy life.

Challenge

I've not mentioned Caroline here in a long time. As far as Nibs goes, yeah, I had that impression and I"m sticking by it.

However, several people including Caroline were brought up in this thread. But not by me.

What I told Vad was that it probably wasn't a good idea, probably was divisive (because he specifically named contributors to this forum, and Nibs and Caroline are NOT) and I also said that I was in no way saying "do not post that" and that this was just a thought I had.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23386-Friends

Within a week I had 9 abusive FB messages from him in the course of two hours one day.

Just today, in this very thread, I have also specifically named several very high profile highly effective critics of whom I've had nothing but public prose. For me, it's not a matter of not liking or disliking or liking effective critics. It's a matter of what do they say. I judge individuals individually.
 
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Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Tell you what I want...once read a site that more or less tracked Hubbard's residences.

Talk about Fabian!

Sometimes it seemed he moved twice a week! And they were HUGE moves like from NY to CA and back. This was before the war and during...crazy stuff but very fitting to all his fret and fuss and NOW! NOW! NOW! urgency/emergency!

Like in the GREAT SCOTT! telegram about his fake diploma where everything hinged on it being delivered.

This was during a time where I think he was really being hounded by creditors and so it probably was just his squid ink to avoid them.

This ring a bell with anybody? ...urls please...

Damn, i hate that when i find some good material and cant think where the hell it was.

Atack, Miller? Maybe V knows?

Its a trait of Obsessive /compulsive to be constantly on the move, combine that with intelligence or perfidious :biggrin: cunningness and it becomes lethal.

I still want more on the drugs.

We could start the series, Ron the Druggie [High Philosophy], Ron the Wife Beater, Ron the Fugitive, Ron on the sauce , Ron the Satyr, Ron the agreement breaker, Ron the Hypnotist, Ron the Oppressor, Ron the Capitalist, Ron the Extortionist, Ron the Plagiarist, Ron the Dilettante,

Dilettante ? i read Ron was professional in 21 fields,

on Rons history of Gliding and reporting.


Bologna Club said:
Perhaps there is one place where L. Ron Hubbard assumed some of my grandfather's legacy. Somewhere along the line he became the chairman of the "Bologna Club."

Sources for this Site--and a word about the "Flying Bologna Club"

In using these, a famous eyewitness left us a warning. In a column dated 1 August 1930, Ernie Pyle, the famous World War II reporter, wrote the following:

Geographers say that the windiest places in the world are in Antarctica or around the Cape of Good Hope. But they are all wet. They've never been around Washington Airport at noon time when the pilots congregate for lunch.

If you sit out on the east plaza there, under the awning, and listen to the hot air that roars back and forth thru the place, you'll wonder why they send explorers to far away places to find meteorological phenomenon.

There is more hot air around those luncheon tables there any day then you'd find in an Arizona sand storm in a week.

Great are the flying deeds that are performed by word of mouth. Everybody is a hero. Nobody has ever make a mistake in his life. They to thru some of the most harrowing experiences imaginable, but their amazing skill always pulls them heroically thru.

The situation has gotten so bad, in fact, that they have formed the Flying Bologna Club. Its purpose is to promote the inaccurate principles of flying...

Chet Warrington is chairman of the board of the Bologna Club...The club's insignia is a bologna sausage, equipped with wings
.

4399289459_812accca40_o.gif
 
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