Nibs Tells Us the MO of Ron, SR.

One last thing before I have to run, I just had this realization: This all seems a lot like I'm trying to flatten the quickie power I had gotten years ago. If you know the commands of the process, you will understand, what I am going through, trying to separate the wheat from the chaff...

Mimsey
 

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Silver Meritorious Patron
After looking through The Aberree I havent seen anything about Nibs beating up on Helen or John physically, with Helen sending in bits of info to the newsletter and with Alphia Hart publishing it & Hubbard & Co's antics from Phoenix.

what i have pieced together is John was devastated after the takeover/move.

Ive not seen any other mention of Nibs and this Ernie Kitsch? one armed guy, does anyone else know or knew the one armed guy?



Why is Nibs saying Huh, 1953? Is someone else asking questions at the same time?[/QUOTE

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I didn't know an Ernie, but there was a guy who hung out with Bobby Sutton named Ernie. I think he played trumpet.

I do remember Noyga. I didn't know his name by any thing other than "Noyga".
Helen, too.

I also didn't ever hear of "Nibs" beating anyone up, but there was a LOT of weird shit that went on in Phoenix.

As there is weird shit going on, still, in Dn/Scn




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Challenge

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Hi Jachss99 - you know, all I read when I wrote that post, was the Penthouse interview. Now that I have read the tape interview #1 (and are there more? If so, where?) I have a different point of view of Nibs. Now he appears as a tech zealot (for want of a better word) who was intent on getting people to use the tech.

Someone else said I need to read more, and I don't dispute them in the least.

That was one of the first awful realizations I had about Ron, and it took a while for me to believe it was true. On study, I saw the contradictions in the tech, and I used the data "what is later superceeded the earlier" to allign them instead of confronting which was real and which was not. But after being thrown under the bus by the church, then surfing scientology on the net, reading stuff, I began to find the ice covering the lake cracking beneath my feet.


This again is something I have witnessed in Scientology - the fallen angels - the tons of people that have been tossed - and there is that ominous line on the bottom of each department on the org board like dept of reg (if recall serves) was "to drive in more people than the org could waste"

DM started doing that day one - purging all of his threats. Is that part of the job description, written in on our DNA? Like the male lion taking over a pride of lionesses, and killing all of the male cubs?

There are so many points he makes on this tape I find true, it all leads back to my first cog when I was dusting the busses tire tracks off my back as it sped off towards the cliff, was that I had to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Ron, it was becoming obvious, had left a salt and pepper legacy, a mish mash of truth and lies, and if I wanted to gain any thing from it, it was up to me to discover and use it.

Welcome to planet earth...
Mimsey


Congratulations.
( On your 'cog'.)
Very nice.


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uniquemand

Unbeliever
IMO, and despite the cries of many, the effort to separate the wheat from the chaff is worthwhile for many reasons. Foremost is returning the power to decide what is true to yourself, instead of letting Ron tell you. Second, it requires you to THINK about the different aspects, processes, logic, how the policy is connected to the tech, etc. Instead of quoting "source", you are then thinking. Third, you might realize that you, too, could be "source" of some material of your own, rather than using Hubbard (or anyone else's) model.

Also, in the process, you are likely to become exposed to lots of other viewpoints, including the source material that Hubbard was using, and see that parallel efforts have been made by many other people. Most with very limited success, some with bogglingly amazing results.

When you limit your search for knowledge to one source, the result is lots of holes in the knowledge. Have a conversation with history, and with other present thinkers, instead. Much more rewarding.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
One last thing before I have to run, I just had this realization: This all seems a lot like I'm trying to flatten the quickie power I had gotten years ago. If you know the commands of the process, you will understand, what I am going through, trying to separate the wheat from the chaff...

Mimsey

You could always run it and flatten it, if you think it might help.
 
You could always run it and flatten it, if you think it might help
When I read how the process was supposed to be run, I thought "I want that!" The next instant, I was pissed at how mine was really run. I haven't given up on the idea, and somewhere I read it can be run at any point on the bridge.

I have so many mish mashed ideas about spirituality and the nature of the universe perhaps it would help sort them out. There are many things that seem true in scientology mixed in with many that are not, that the whole subject seems a bit, oh, like in the Matrix when the cat jumped back and forth - unreal.

I think I will continue putzing around, reading this and that, and see what happens. My "R" changes considerably as I read one thing and another. As I read Nibs tape I agreed with a lot of his statements, but then, I think, he claims to be such an OT and yet he is running an apartment building. Maybe it is a hidden standard, I dunno, maybe he wanted something low key so he could tend his life. Then there's Magik. Oy! What next?

Who knows, maybe Ron was right, maybe it does come down to "what is real to me is real"

Or maybe it is like what my son said - "a dog doesn't know about the internet" Or the Carlos Castenada bit - the "aware" self, the thinking self, isn't able to know that stuff, but the spiritual self knows it all - so Don Juan was always tricking the aware self to let the spiritual self out. (I know - he was debunked, but that does not stop me from liking what he wrote) Or what Nibs said about the deep reality at the end of his tape.

As I reread this - I think wow - what a q and a artist I am ...

Mimsey
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
When I read how the process was supposed to be run, I thought "I want that!" The next instant, I was pissed at how mine was really run. I haven't given up on the idea, and somewhere I read it can be run at any point on the bridge.

I have so many mish mashed ideas about spirituality and the nature of the universe perhaps it would help sort them out. There are many things that seem true in scientology mixed in with many that are not, that the whole subject seems a bit, oh, like in the Matrix when the cat jumped back and forth - unreal.

I think I will continue putzing around, reading this and that, and see what happens. My "R" changes considerably as I read one thing and another. As I read Nibs tape I agreed with a lot of his statements, but then, I think, he claims to be such an OT and yet he is running an apartment building. Maybe it is a hidden standard, I dunno, maybe he wanted something low key so he could tend his life. Then there's Magik. Oy! What next?

Who knows, maybe Ron was right, maybe it does come down to "what is real to me is real"

Or maybe it is like what my son said - "a dog doesn't know about the internet" Or the Carlos Castenada bit - the "aware" self, the thinking self, isn't able to know that stuff, but the spiritual self knows it all - so Don Juan was always tricking the aware self to let the spiritual self out. (I know - he was debunked, but that does not stop me from liking what he wrote) Or what Nibs said about the deep reality at the end of his tape.

As I reread this - I think wow - what a q and a artist I am ...

Mimsey


***
It's Ok to have doubts.
***​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1tKEvN3DF0


Lenghtier version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkhBcLk_8f0
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Jachss99 - you know, all I read when I wrote that post, was the Penthouse interview. Now that I have read the tape interview #1 (and are there more? If so, where?) I have a different point of view of Nibs. Now he appears as a tech zealot (for want of a better word) who was intent on getting people to use the tech.

yeah i think so too, Nibs said that SOP 8-Control was "his baby",

and from what ive read he was quite good at what he knew, not just in 8C but TRs, grades stuff etc
Could have been trying to be the best he could be for his Ron Sr.

Someone else said I need to read more, and I don't dispute them in the least.

That was one of the first awful realizations I had about Ron, and it took a while for me to believe it was true. On study, I saw the contradictions in the tech, and I used the data "what is later superceeded the earlier" to allign them instead of confronting which was real and which was not. But after being thrown under the bus by the church, then surfing scientology on the net, reading stuff, I began to find the ice covering the lake cracking beneath my feet.

You did well to notice the contradictions, i only felt it. I suppose the version of spirit of play being to run everywhere in emergency was contradictory to me.

This again is something I have witnessed in Scientology - the fallen angels - the tons of people that have been tossed - and there is that ominous line on the bottom of each department on the org board like dept of reg (if recall serves) was "to drive in more people than the org could waste"

DM started doing that day one - purging all of his threats. Is that part of the job description, written in on our DNA? Like the male lion taking over a pride of lionesses, and killing all of the male cubs?

Maybe , dont know, The lucifer effect explains that good enough for me, raw survival in a dangerous place.

There are so many points he makes on this tape I find true, it all leads back to my first cog when I was dusting the busses tire tracks off my back as it sped off towards the cliff, was that I had to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Ron, it was becoming obvious, had left a salt and pepper legacy, a mish mash of truth and lies, and if I wanted to gain any thing from it, it was up to me to discover and use it.

Welcome to planet earth...
Mimsey

Salt and pepper Legacy, thats a great line !!

Sociopath organizations deliver shocks. Scn takes that to a new level, that bus just keeps going around in circles.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
One last thing before I have to run, I just had this realization: This all seems a lot like I'm trying to flatten the quickie power I had gotten years ago. If you know the commands of the process, you will understand, what I am going through, trying to separate the wheat from the chaff...

Mimsey

Ive seen others talk about power with flying pictures, thoughts unraveling, i used to think that process sounded brilliant, but after reading Dennis Stephens goals explanation, i can see how Power process could be dicey hit and miss , hasnt that process been in mothballs for years. could be any wheee sensation, or asking universal self to understand, or abstract knowing something is going on but not what it is , its heading for unpredictable results and outcomes.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Mimsey and everyone else,

Here's all of the Nibs links I've found so far (all on Lermanet):

TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE #1 OF JUNE 28, 1984 - RON DEWOLF Since this is #1 I immediately wonder if there are more?

AFFIDAVIT OF RONALD DeWOLF a/k/a L.RON HUBBARD, JR.

Ron Hubbard's son's testimony, Ron DeWolfe 1982 Clearwater commission Hearings
This link is for Day 2 only...which makes me want to have Day 1 because Nibs' testimony actually started on Day 1 = what is missing?

Son of Scientology Newkirk Herald Newspaper Article 1982

Penthouse Interview

Read up, folks!! Stealing an H-bomb...commies in the house...mafia (I think that's what I read)...unbelievable stuff.

What was that quote about knocking hats off at 50 yards or whatever? Something about we will succeed because it is so unbelievable? Stealing an H-bomb, for crying out loud!
 
I was going to ask Arnie Lerna if he had any info since the tape is posted on his site, but I couldn't find a 'connect to' link in his site. Then I was going to PM him but though I've seen his avatar on the board, I couldn't quite find his handle to PM him.

How would I do this? Do you think there is any other stuff on him in the FZ?

BTW, thanks for the doubt video - I have always felt the need to know the answers to questions - it took me a while to learn to say - I dunno, but I'll look.

Mimsey
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mimsey and everyone else,

Here's all of the Nibs links I've found so far (all on Lermanet):

TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE #1 OF JUNE 28, 1984 - RON DEWOLF Since this is #1 I immediately wonder if there are more?

AFFIDAVIT OF RONALD DeWOLF a/k/a L.RON HUBBARD, JR.

Ron Hubbard's son's testimony, Ron DeWolfe 1982 Clearwater commission Hearings
This link is for Day 2 only...which makes me want to have Day 1 because Nibs' testimony actually started on Day 1 = what is missing?

Son of Scientology Newkirk Herald Newspaper Article 1982

Penthouse Interview

Read up, folks!! Stealing an H-bomb...commies in the house...mafia (I think that's what I read)...unbelievable stuff.

What was that quote about knocking hats off at 50 yards or whatever? Something about we will succeed because it is so unbelievable? Stealing an H-bomb, for crying out loud!

Relax, dude!

No one is going after you and your country.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Relax, dude!

No one is going after you and your country.

Well, VaD, I have no idea where your comment is coming from as I'm not worked up.

Instead, it's so unbelievably stupid when you read the various nefarious things Hubbard was up to and onto, as in this from here:

MR. LECHER: Well, do you feel -- if your father should die of natural causes, would it what effect would that have on the faithful?

MR. DeWOLFE: I think they would I really have no way of predicting, but I think that there's a couple of quotes that my father used to say all the time that really scares me to death. He at one time was also talking about really taking on the world. And I remember in 1958 an example which scared me to death and started myself thinking -- he wanted me to devise a plan to try to steal an H-bomb.

MR. LECHER: Your father wanted you to steal an H-bomb? (This is so unbelievably stupid that the interviewer can't believe it - watch how this turns out...)

MR. DeWOLFE: Huh?

MR. LECHER: Your father wanted you to steal an H-bomb?

MR. DeWOLFE: Yeah. He wanted me to

MR. LECHER: From whom?

MR. D EWOLFE:
Anybody and everybody. We got -- I never got into it, because I said, "Oh, no, thank you." And sort of -- things went click in my head, and I said, "I don't -- I have two children and I don't want to get involved in that." And that was in late 1958.

MR. LECHER: He wanted you to steal the parts or the whole bomb?

MR. DeWOLFE: No. He wanted a whole package. The but the -- as an example, one of the things he said to me - was that he said it many, many times he said, "Don't call it murder, call it suicide." And there's another quote, "I connotate loyalty as the highest ethic." That means, "Follow me." That means, "Total dedication, total loyalty to me, L. Ron Hubbard." And that's the one-thing that he put before any and all everything. And -

MR. LECHER: Because of

MR. DeWOLFE: So, anyway, that would lead me to believe that this -- knowing as much as I know about it, that -

MR. LECHER: I will not pursue that anymore at this point. (See what I mean...dropped it...) One other question: Is it -- do you think that the organization wants to control our economic system?

MR. DeWOLFE:
Yes.

At any rate before you go posting thinking I've lost my marbles or something read the various links. Crazy, batshit crazy stuff...like I said...mafia...commies...H-bombs...it's so unbelievable that it's hard to put any credence to these claims and that's why I posted that quote of Hubbard...meaning no one would take these claims seriously and in doing so it allows Hubbard to continue doing such outrageous things...sort of like the Nazi death camps where people just couldn't believe the stories until they saw the evidence.

That's why I figure you posted what you did - it's too crazy to believe...

And no, I don't think anyone is out to get me, I'm merely relating what Nibs has stated in these various links as sworn testimony and such.
 
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Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was going to ask Arnie Lerna if he had any info since the tape is posted on his site, but I couldn't find a 'connect to' link in his site. Then I was going to PM him but though I've seen his avatar on the board, I couldn't quite find his handle to PM him.

How would I do this? Do you think there is any other stuff on him in the FZ?

BTW, thanks for the doubt video - I have always felt the need to know the answers to questions - it took me a while to learn to say - I dunno, but I'll look.

Mimsey

There is this Link on his signature.

Who is Arnie Lerma? LINK

or to find anyone you can click on community.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
When I read how the process was supposed to be run, I thought "I want that!" The next instant, I was pissed at how mine was really run. I haven't given up on the idea, and somewhere I read it can be run at any point on the bridge.

I have so many mish mashed ideas about spirituality and the nature of the universe perhaps it would help sort them out. There are many things that seem true in scientology mixed in with many that are not, that the whole subject seems a bit, oh, like in the Matrix when the cat jumped back and forth - unreal.

I think I will continue putzing around, reading this and that, and see what happens. My "R" changes considerably as I read one thing and another. As I read Nibs tape I agreed with a lot of his statements, but then, I think, he claims to be such an OT and yet he is running an apartment building. Maybe it is a hidden standard, I dunno, maybe he wanted something low key so he could tend his life. Then there's Magik. Oy! What next?

Who knows, maybe Ron was right, maybe it does come down to "what is real to me is real"

Or maybe it is like what my son said - "a dog doesn't know about the internet" Or the Carlos Castenada bit - the "aware" self, the thinking self, isn't able to know that stuff, but the spiritual self knows it all - so Don Juan was always tricking the aware self to let the spiritual self out. (I know - he was debunked, but that does not stop me from liking what he wrote) Or what Nibs said about the deep reality at the end of his tape.

As I reread this - I think wow - what a q and a artist I am ...

Mimsey

I was audited on Power, and ran it solo several times later on. Like everything else in Scientology, it's floating in a sea of hype. You don't need it to make sense of your existence. You don't need anything outside of your own perceptions and judgment.

*Lol! Just realised that what I wrote above is pretty much the EP of Power.*
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, VaD, I have no idea where your comment is coming from as I'm not worked up.

Instead, it's so unbelievably stupid when you read the various nefarious things Hubbard was up to and onto, as in this from here:

MR. LECHER: Well, do you feel -- if your father should die of natural causes, would it what effect would that have on the faithful?

MR. DeWOLFE: I think they would I really have no way of predicting, but I think that there's a couple of quotes that my father used to say all the time that really scares me to death. He at one time was also talking about really taking on the world. And I remember in 1958 an example which scared me to death and started myself thinking -- he wanted me to devise a plan to try to steal an H-bomb.

MR. LECHER: Your father wanted you to steal an H-bomb? (This is so unbelievably stupid that the interviewer can't believe it - watch how this turns out...)

MR. DeWOLFE: Huh?

MR. LECHER: Your father wanted you to steal an H-bomb?

MR. DeWOLFE: Yeah. He wanted me to

MR. LECHER: From whom?

MR. D EWOLFE:
Anybody and everybody. We got -- I never got into it, because I said, "Oh, no, thank you." And sort of -- things went click in my head, and I said, "I don't -- I have two children and I don't want to get involved in that." And that was in late 1958.

MR. LECHER: He wanted you to steal the parts or the whole bomb?

MR. DeWOLFE: No. He wanted a whole package. The but the -- as an example, one of the things he said to me - was that he said it many, many times he said, "Don't call it murder, call it suicide." And there's another quote, "I connotate loyalty as the highest ethic." That means, "Follow me." That means, "Total dedication, total loyalty to me, L. Ron Hubbard." And that's the one-thing that he put before any and all everything. And -

MR. LECHER: Because of

MR. DeWOLFE: So, anyway, that would lead me to believe that this -- knowing as much as I know about it, that -

MR. LECHER: I will not pursue that anymore at this point. (See what I mean...dropped it...) One other question: Is it -- do you think that the organization wants to control our economic system?

MR. DeWOLFE:
Yes.

At any rate before you go posting thinking I've lost my marbles or something read the various links. Crazy, batshit crazy stuff...like I said...mafia...commies...H-bombs...it's so unbelievable that it's hard to put any credence to these claims and that's why I posted that quote of Hubbard...meaning no one would take these claims seriously and in doing so it allows Hubbard to continue doing such outrageous things...sort of like the Nazi death camps where people just couldn't believe the stories until they saw the evidence.

That's why I figure you posted what you did - it's too crazy to believe...

And no, I don't think anyone is out to get me, I'm merely relating what Nibs has stated in these various links as sworn testimony and such.


Sounds about right, for Nibs. The guy was a nutter deluxe.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Sounds about right, for Nibs. The guy was a nutter deluxe.

Nibs is recounting things that his father told him.

Remember Reg Sharpe? He was a Scientologist from the mid 1950s to the mid 1960s, not as close to Hubbard Sr. as Nibs, but pretty close.

Here's what Reg Sharpe said in a 1986 interview:

"He [Hubbard Sr.] had ambitions of being leader of a world government. This is for real. He outlined his plans for a world government. I was to appoint the governor of the Bank of England. He published that. Why I wasn't going to be the governor of the Bank of England, I've never been quite sure."

Is Reg Sharpe a "nutter" also, Leon?
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Reg saw straight away it was a bozo suggestion. Nibs never did. There's the difference.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Reg saw straight away it was a bozo suggestion. Nibs never did. There's the difference.

Again: Nibs was recounting things that his father told him.

What Reg Sharpe saw "straight away" is an assumption on your part. The interview with Sharpe was done twenty years later. In any event, Reg Sharpe was a grown man when he became involved in Scientology.

Nibs was a junior in high school when he was taken out of high school and brought into his father's world. His father bought him a '47 Buick for a birthday present and shared his amphetamines with him. Nibs left Scientology ten years later, and attempted to start a life with his wife and kids on the outside. He was hounded and Fair Gamed for the rest of his life by his father, and by his father's goons.

Nibs had more insight into his father and Scientology than you ever will.
 
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