F.Bullbait
Oh, a wise guy,eh?
Nitrous Oxide and having a good huff goes back a ways...
Nitrous Oxide and Hubbard
- Thread starter Mimsey Borogrove
- Start date
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Ok - let me ask you a question - he had gobs and gobs of money. By many peoples standards, he had made it. He smashed his name into history. Some of his children have had children, so his GE line will survive. He has a pack of Kools waiting for him at every org.
And yet he tells Sarge he failed?
I like my theory better, because, though I agree he was money motivated, he did audit almost daily to his final breath. Why do that, if his goal was to make money as you posit?
Mimsey
Veda
Sponsor
This was not directed to me, but here's my response anyway.
Sarge was a true believer.
Hubbard's father lived to age 89. Hubbard envisioned living into the 21st century. He failed to do that.
He was addicted to the e-meter.
Although he promised Scientologists that there were many more upper OT levels, already written up, which would soon be released, there were no such levels.
During the time that he should have been finalizing the upper OT levels he, instead, wrote pulp science fiction novels.
If he really thought he had failed at delivering to Mankind the Bridge to Total Freedom, why didn't he tell his loyal followers?
Could it be that without the promise of Total Freedom - which he must have known would not be kept - the asserting and maintaining of dominion over thoughts and loyalties would not occur?
It's pretty obvious that he knew what he was doing, and that he had his (very materialistic) "bottom line," and took very seriously that "bottom line," while motivating those around him - who were still believers, despite seeing his condition - with "acceptable 'truths'."
There are numerous examples of this, which Scientologists become numb to, but it's a recurring pattern.
In his confidential 1969 'Intelligence actions - Covert Intelligence Data Collection', Hubbard told his inner circle that he 2nd wife was a Russian agent whose real name was "Komkovadamanov." Hubbard knew this was a lie, but he said it on more than one occasion to his inner circle.
At the same time, and in the same issue and accompanying collection of instructions, Hubbard provided the same inner circle with some very practical and "true" information on how to accomplish covert "dirty tricks."
In the 1973 confidential issue, 'Intelligence, its Role', Hubbard dismissed the idea of using psychic powers to spy on others, yet lauded "Scientology Intelligence tech" as the greatest on Earth and, potentially, the greatest in the universe.
L. Ron Hubbard, from confidential 'Intelligence, Its Role', 1973:
"We are potentially successful beyond the greatest dreams and aspirations of any former Intelligence service in the universe bar none.
'Intelligence furnishes much of the data on which evaluation is based.
"What could be called SUPPORT Intelligence (or attack or offensive Intelligence) is the other side of the coin, and also forms a vital part of Intelligence activities. But here Intelligence is carrying out part of a program furnished by evaluation to command and ordered executed."
Going on glowingly about Scientology Intelligence tech, and the Scientology Intelligence service, and belittling "primitive" - "wog" - Intelligence services, Hubbard wrote that:
"...it has very little to do with the arcane arts. Although our Intelligence tech might seem like black magic to those in primitive services."
This was authored by Hubbard shortly after Ingo Swann was featured in 'Advance! magazine' as a Scientologist and famous psychic. Could someone have asked Hubbard about using "OT powers" for "data collection" or other Intelligence actions?, thus triggering Hubbard's outburst - which is lengthier than is quoted here - rejecting anything but down to earth, practical, Scientology Intelligence tech, with its down to earth Data Collection, Evaluation, and Attack - a.k.a. "Support" - Intelligence?
It's interesting that Hubbard, when he telling tales or was making a show of it, liked to emphasize OT abilities but, when he was serious, brushed aside such things and depended entirely on materialistic means.
WildKat
Gold Meritorious Patron
I think he wanted BOTH, not an either/or question. He clearly wanted money, and he wanted to cure his own mental issues. And he liked the adoration of his fans.
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
This was not directed to me, but here's my response anyway.
Sarge was a true believer.
Hubbard's father lived to age 89. Hubbard envisioned living into the 21st century. He failed to do that.
He was addicted to the e-meter.
Although he promised Scientologists that there were many more upper OT levels, already written up, which would soon be released, there were no such levels.
snip
It's interesting that Hubbard, when he telling tales or was making a show of it, liked to emphasize OT abilities but, when he was serious, brushed aside such things and depended entirely on materialistic means.
Addicted to the e-meter? Humm Could be it somehow released endorphins? I can't say I ever experienced that - I did a few years on solo 7 but have no desire to pick up the cans again, nor did I have any high from it. Asking the wife who also was on 7, she didn't have an endorphin kick either, though she did have an "addiction to audit" because she thought that it would fix her, though sometimes, getting yet another session would just annoy her.
Thanks. I am not sure what the intelligence stuff has to do with why he kept self auditing but the point he eschewed OT abilities when push came to shove is telling.
Wildkat the point wanting adoration, it seemed to wane as he got older - it was less and less - for instance - the 25th anniversary convention in Long Beach - he didn't show up to the largest adoring crowd to date, even though his father was there. Instead he sent a short tape to everyone's disappointment.
Mimsey
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
Veda's two posts on this thread describe essentially "basic-basic" about the whole Hubbard saga.This was not directed to me, but here's my response anyway.
Once one fully "groks" all that and really gets it, well, that's all there is to it. I've been reading
all the heretical materials (factual histories) since the mid-2000's and have thousands of hours
in the chair in prior decades. I've ended up with the same conclusions as Veda.
My only puzzlement nowadays is why any of it is still being debated.
True dat!
IMO, no one, and I mean no one, puts together $600 million ($1.3 billion in today's dollars),
which is LRH's speculated personal net worth at his death, without being EXTREMELY money
motivated.
That's my experience in life, having known and rubbed shoulders with many very wealthy people.
I've never had that level of drive or greed, but I've seen it up close. And it's unmistakable.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
.
Good question.
However, your question assumes facts not in evidence. To wit, that Hubbard's actions always had a logical and catalytic "cause" that could be articulated and mapped in a satisfying linear way.
However, steadfastly trying to apply reason (to find the 'reason' Hubbard did things) is often the wrong tool. We see this mistaken approach quite frequently when TV news reporters are at the scene of some unthinkably evil crime:
"So far authorities state that they have recovered the bodies of 31 decapitated nuns that were buried in his basement. The police still do not have the explanation and reason why he decided to commit these horrific murders."
As if there is an explanation that will bring a pleasing conclusion to simplify the mad chaos of a deranged serial murderer's mind.
The answer to WHY Hubbard knowingly defrauded billions of dollars from innocent victims who were hoping for a total freedom miracle (whist continuing to search for the Holy Grail for himself as well) is not hard to understand. It's the same reason that mafia murderers wear crucifixes and religiously attend church mass each Sunday.
Are these sociopathic hit men confessing their sins and begging for absolution? Hardly. They are just taking out what, in their demented minds, seems like a feel-good insurance policy to hedge their bets on the afterlife.
Was Hubbard hoping to find the keys to the universe and bring about (in himself) exteriorization, immortality and the miraculous powers of postulates? Probably, yeah. But megalomania is not necessarily inconsistent with criminal fraud. Why can't a thief (or murderer for that matter) believe themselves to be the universe's (or God's) "chosen one" to deliver a divine message? Radical Islamic suicide bombers probably have a nice floating needle just before applying their detonation "tech" to mankind.
Hubbard stole others' time, money and lives with reckless abandon--at the same time he was continuing his daily research/auditing to fulfill his deified destiny as the savior of the universe.
Are we to assume that Hubbard taking himself in session--in hopes of unleashing his miraculous powers--is somehow testimony that he was sane or ethical? No. He was fully deranged. But even the insane are capable of building a suicide vest that "works" and pulling the trigger.
Good question.
However, your question assumes facts not in evidence. To wit, that Hubbard's actions always had a logical and catalytic "cause" that could be articulated and mapped in a satisfying linear way.
However, steadfastly trying to apply reason (to find the 'reason' Hubbard did things) is often the wrong tool. We see this mistaken approach quite frequently when TV news reporters are at the scene of some unthinkably evil crime:
"So far authorities state that they have recovered the bodies of 31 decapitated nuns that were buried in his basement. The police still do not have the explanation and reason why he decided to commit these horrific murders."
As if there is an explanation that will bring a pleasing conclusion to simplify the mad chaos of a deranged serial murderer's mind.
The answer to WHY Hubbard knowingly defrauded billions of dollars from innocent victims who were hoping for a total freedom miracle (whist continuing to search for the Holy Grail for himself as well) is not hard to understand. It's the same reason that mafia murderers wear crucifixes and religiously attend church mass each Sunday.
Are these sociopathic hit men confessing their sins and begging for absolution? Hardly. They are just taking out what, in their demented minds, seems like a feel-good insurance policy to hedge their bets on the afterlife.
Was Hubbard hoping to find the keys to the universe and bring about (in himself) exteriorization, immortality and the miraculous powers of postulates? Probably, yeah. But megalomania is not necessarily inconsistent with criminal fraud. Why can't a thief (or murderer for that matter) believe themselves to be the universe's (or God's) "chosen one" to deliver a divine message? Radical Islamic suicide bombers probably have a nice floating needle just before applying their detonation "tech" to mankind.
Hubbard stole others' time, money and lives with reckless abandon--at the same time he was continuing his daily research/auditing to fulfill his deified destiny as the savior of the universe.
Are we to assume that Hubbard taking himself in session--in hopes of unleashing his miraculous powers--is somehow testimony that he was sane or ethical? No. He was fully deranged. But even the insane are capable of building a suicide vest that "works" and pulling the trigger.
Last edited:
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
I like your post and it seems to pull the mask off a sociopathic personality that only cared for himself.
Mimsey
Veda
Sponsor
It's been explained less jaggedly elsewhere. Just took two examples that were handy for cut and pasting. It's about patterns.
Hubbard believed some things and lied about other things.
According to Nibs (Ron jr.) Hubbard Sr. (circa 1951) felt he should not be audited.
Perhaps impressed with "Success Stories" by others, he did engage in auditing himself or allowing himself to be audited. By the nature of it, auditing requires (initially) "self invalidation," and Hubbard had stated that "The only aberration is self invalidation."
By engaging in auditing, Hubbard, the inventor of the game, had placed himself inside the game.
He became "the effect of his own cause."
Originally, Hubbard meant his "psychology" to "work" (have an effect) on others and not on himself. He violated his own principles and became a classic case of compulsive self auditing and e-meter dependence.
_______
Even this excerpt from an affidavit, from a former Sea Org member named Ann Bailey, mentions an e-meter on a table.
From the affidavit:
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of suffocation. A S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was party open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet, overstuffed chairs, and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry was a heavy set older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back. he was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes, highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard and didn't know if I was to have either an auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found my self in a lavish bedroom...
There was a small table set up with an e-meter on it and again I thought about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as I can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next hour he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I have ever been in my life. I felt as if in some perverse way he was telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of it all. I really felt he coveted an aspect of my personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I could not fathom at the time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was having a nervous breakdown. Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed. Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and cried....
I didn't say a word to anyone.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet, overstuffed chairs, and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry was a heavy set older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back. he was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes, highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard and didn't know if I was to have either an auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found my self in a lavish bedroom...
There was a small table set up with an e-meter on it and again I thought about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as I can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next hour he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I have ever been in my life. I felt as if in some perverse way he was telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of it all. I really felt he coveted an aspect of my personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I could not fathom at the time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was having a nervous breakdown. Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed. Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and cried....
I didn't say a word to anyone.
_________
This was around the time of the 25th anniversary that you mention.
The kind of "fame" Hubbard wanted was not so much the adoration of crowds, as it was the assurance that his name and image would be around thousands of years from now.
He wanted to "leave his mark" in a big way.
This is NOT OK !!!!
Gold Meritorious Patron
snip
My only puzzlement nowadays is why any of it is still being debated.
Because Mimsey can't give up?
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Or won't.
Mims
Edit: the dutch are known to be stubborn, and my family line comes from Friesland where the most stubborn dutch come from.
Gib
Crusader
I wonder if Hubbard even applied his own technology to hisself. I mean he said he discovered Qual, as correction, for people to correct themselves and get the proper tech, organizational wise and application of the tech wise which was to resolve no results or not proper result or EP.
Are there any known success stories from Hubbard achieving each step and EP of the Bridge to Total Freedom?
Are there any known success stories from Hubbard achieving each step and EP of the Bridge to Total Freedom?
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Does anyone (besides me) think Ron's Nitrous Oxide induced "profound religious experience" was the reason he dissuaded all others from using LSD and other drugs? Fear that others may have their own "profound religious experience" and no longer need his?
Jack
The story I heard at the time was flash backs while on post were causing dev-t and so he made it policy not to recruit any people with an LSD drug history. There is a question on some correction list - seeking the same thrill as obtained on drugs. If you go to one of those sites with red vols - you can find some HCOBs about LSD.
Mimsey
JackStraw
Silver Meritorious Patron
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Sure. but the SO policies are based on the flashbacks. I have read the red and white, but not any FOs on it,You have heard of shore stories, yes?
Jack
Mimsey
guanoloco
As-Wased
Here's a fascinating excerpt on Hubbard and his motivations for Excalibur.
...rape women without their knowing it...oh yeah...give me some of that higher awareness...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_(L._Ron_Hubbard)
Forrest J. Ackerman was Hubbard's literary agent in the late 1940s. By Ackerman's account, Hubbard claimed the near-death experience had occurred not in a dentist's office but on an "operating table" sometime "during the war". Finding himself outside of his body, he was drawn to a "great ornate gate". Ackerman recalled that "on the other side of this gate spread out like an intellectual smorgasbord as the SUM TOTAL OF HUMAN KNOWLEDGE!"[3]
In a 1949 letter to Ackerman, Hubbard discusses his work "DARK SWORD -cause and cure of nervous tension – properly – THE SCIENCE OF MIND, really EXCALIBUR". Hubbard promises that the work will give the reader the power to "rape women without their knowing it, communicate suicide messages to your enemies as they sleep, sell the Arroyo Seco Parkway to the mayor for cash, evolve the best way of protecting or destroying communism, and other handy house hold hints.[9] Hubbard assured Ackerman that the book had "more selling and publicity angles than any book of which I have ever heard." In the same month, he told Writers' Markets and Methods magazine that he was working on a "book of psychology".[10] Hubbard cautions his friend "If you go crazy, remember you were warned", adding that a "good publishing trick" is to require that buyers sign a legal waiver "releasing the author of all responsibilities if the reader goes nuts".[9]
In a 1949 letter to Ackerman, Hubbard discusses his work "DARK SWORD -cause and cure of nervous tension – properly – THE SCIENCE OF MIND, really EXCALIBUR". Hubbard promises that the work will give the reader the power to "rape women without their knowing it, communicate suicide messages to your enemies as they sleep, sell the Arroyo Seco Parkway to the mayor for cash, evolve the best way of protecting or destroying communism, and other handy house hold hints.[9] Hubbard assured Ackerman that the book had "more selling and publicity angles than any book of which I have ever heard." In the same month, he told Writers' Markets and Methods magazine that he was working on a "book of psychology".[10] Hubbard cautions his friend "If you go crazy, remember you were warned", adding that a "good publishing trick" is to require that buyers sign a legal waiver "releasing the author of all responsibilities if the reader goes nuts".[9]
...rape women without their knowing it...oh yeah...give me some of that higher awareness...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_(L._Ron_Hubbard)
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
This could be a new service offered by Scientology.
TR-R (Training Routine Rape)
Student and coach lay facing each other a comfortable distance apart.
(wait, it's too grim to continue this dark satire)
Anyways the student is given a pass when they can successfully rape the coach without the coach knowing it.
It's not so new, actually. SCN registrars have drilled, passed and applied this "rape someone without their knowing it" tech for decades.
guanoloco
As-Wased
Every single angle he has to market the book is some sort of cheat theft. Dude is seriously depraved. I mean I thought it was bad enough that an adult would privately write about all men are my slaves and no woman can resist me and use the crap to self-hypnotise but here he's openly bragging about being able to rape women without their knowing it AS A SALES POINT and later on we're to believe that "honorable" Ron stood up to such corruption as psych interns raping the institutionalized.
Right.
Ever notice that the people closest to Ron were his biggest victims and it was the defenseless and vulnerable women and children who suffered the most? Except Paulette Cooper...that's brave Ron all Fabian attacking his enemy. Never heard of him pulling capers like that on men.
Something about the liar is a coward and the coward is a liar...
