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NLP ...CULT ?

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
I frequently refer to places LRH used the hypnotic covert persuasion techniques known as stacked realities and embedded commands in Neuro-linguistic programming.

I want to make it COMPLETELY clear that I do not use or endorse NLP or believe in it as a philosophy or therapy or workable technology.

I have brought out some of the terms it has for covert hypnotic techniques for ONE reason - they accurately describe many of the effects LRH created INTENTIONALLY with Dianetics and Scientology.

He did not use first or second generation mind control or hypnosis ; he frequently used COMPOUND refined techniques , and if NLP or any other practice has an understandable description of how he did what he did I will use that description.

His techniques are difficult to detect , let alone clearly explain - as a significant consideration of the methods of hypnotic induction is needed to just scratch the surface.

You should look for confusion ( or paradox - including contradiction AND distraction ) , repetition , mimicry , and focused ( or divided ) attention to start.

These basic techniques are used over and over , in many variations AND combinations in study , drilling , word clearing and of course auditing.

He also used loaded language , rhetorical techniques, logical fallacies , the offensive defensive technique AND other methods on his victims.

You should become familiar with trance states ( and NOT what LRH said about them ) , as we shift states of trance normally BUT LRH wanted to rig our minds to cheat and control this shift , to shut down the critical factor when intaking his doctrine or receiving his practices.

The critical factor is the natural mental function that allows questioning , DOUBTING , rejecting or disbelieving , growing bored and leaving , independent thought , looking for inconsistencies , looking for things that are simply incredible.

It functions to do many of the things we think of as common sense or judgement; it makes it so you do not believe EVERYTHING you hear or see or read.

He wanted to put deep in a person's subconscious an unthinking blind loyalty , strongly reinforced with emotional bonds SO when a Scientologist encounters criticism the critical factor is back on : BUT only directed externally at the critic ( See Commander Birdsong ) !


But , I digress , the point of this thread is to point out that in my very brief experience with NLP I have found many warning signs that it may be a cult , or merely a fraud and should be approached with EXTREME skepticism and logical , critical thinking .

You might say why look at it at all if it is false ?

Because cults , and frauds , have common factors and practices that help understand them .

In particular Scientology has a very fine degree of covert manipulation ; almost as if LRH's first rule was DON'T GET CAUGHT - OR FOUND OUT !!

Like Scientology was his video game and staying alive and free to conquer more was his first priority.

He knew he had no get out of jail free cards or extra lives. So he used , and possibly invented , every dirty trick in the book of brainwashing and hiding the brainwashing.

I cannot overstate that point enough. The auditor brainwashes , unknowingly , the supervisor ...the c/s...the word clearer... the twin...the reg...the staff member...and the student is a self-brainwasher.

Whether it is NLP , or another cult's insane doctrine or even the repulsive Mein Kampf , I am open to studying almost any body of data IF I can look for and find keys to seeing the code in the Scientology matrix and explaining it to others.:thumbsup:
 
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Hatshepsut

Crusader
I agree.

I was watching some Tony Robbins videos yesterday and there was a line up in the youtube column for Tony doing a series of EFT and NLP sessions. I clicked on it and felt it was a little bit bypassing the client. He is a benevolent guy, but listening to him describe 'how' these things can be employed and for what purpose was a little off-putting.

What I find with these types of counselors is that they want to regress everybody back to two years old when they were first deciding on solutions to ther environment. It makes them cranky, like they are assigning their parents responsibility for programming them. It wasn't their fault, the environment was terribly unconfrontable and all. The ascerbic attitudes in these grown men I have seen (lately, 4 of em) are almost poison. The one fellow was Tony, the other was giving a review of Robin Williams emotional problems, another was Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall Street) and the other was a life coach for those recovering from narcissists. :bigcry:

Maybe the therapists think that experiencing 'anger' about the programming is long overdue.
 
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mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
I find more red flags and signs of pseudoscience and unethical practices the deeper I look into NLP.

It is alarmigly dishonest as many practitioners advertise teaching covert manipulation for seduction and similar inhuman effects.

I would advise staying away if at all possible.

I do not give NLPers my time and study their practices from afar.

I am also wary of hidden hypnotic commands in materials and know beforehand I will NEVER check it out or go see or anything like that .

They I think are like a bunch of wannabe LRH's trying to secretly manipulate people.

Not all may be this bad but some clearly want to be .
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
NLP as originally taught in the books by Grinder and Bandler is not the same thing as what other people have added to it and called NLP.
The basic methodology is one of observing in detail how someone is succesful at something and learning it. It was originally used for learning how succesful therapists got good results. It was picked up on by sales teachers and those who started offering seduction courses etc. The best defense against the techniques is to study the original books on the subject as understanding what is being done makes one fairly immune.
 

Graz

New Member
Neuro-etymological programming (NLP) is a way to deal with correspondence, self-awareness, and psychotherapy made by Richard Bandler and John Grinder in California, United States in the 1970s. NLP has subsequent to been overwhelmingly undermined scientifically, however keeps on being advertised by some trance inducers and by a few organizations that arrange courses and workshops on administration preparing for businesses.


NLP's makers claim there is an association between neurological procedures (neuro-), dialect (phonetic) and behavioral examples learned through experience (programming), and that these can be changed to accomplish particular objectives in life. Bandler and Grinder likewise assert that NLP technique can "show" the aptitudes of outstanding individuals, permitting anybody to get those skills.They guarantee too that, regularly in a solitary session, NLP can regard issues, for example, fears, dejection, tic issue, psychosomatic ailments, close sightedness, hypersensitivity, normal cold,and learning disorders.


I found a website that has great information about it http://www.nlptechniquesguide.com/
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Neuro-etymological programming (NLP) is a way to deal with correspondence, self-awareness, and psychotherapy made by Richard Bandler and John Grinder in California, United States in the 1970s. NLP has subsequent to been overwhelmingly undermined scientifically, however keeps on being advertised by some trance inducers and by a few organizations that arrange courses and workshops on administration preparing for businesses.


NLP's makers claim there is an association between neurological procedures (neuro-), dialect (phonetic) and behavioral examples learned through experience (programming), and that these can be changed to accomplish particular objectives in life. Bandler and Grinder likewise assert that NLP technique can "show" the aptitudes of outstanding individuals, permitting anybody to get those skills.They guarantee too that, regularly in a solitary session, NLP can regard issues, for example, fears, dejection, tic issue, psychosomatic ailments, close sightedness, hypersensitivity, normal cold,and learning disorders.


I found a website that has great information about it http://www.nlptechniquesguide.com/

As soon as they mention close sightedness, my bullshit detectors sound the alarm. Myopia is due to the physical shape of the eyeball structures, not some mental process like a phobia or arguably a tic.

I used to be undecided on NLP but now I'm not so sure :coolwink:
 
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