Non Clear R- Factors

Terril park

Sponsor
Hi to anyone who has attested to the State of Clear,

Below is an excerpt of my letter sent to OSA as part of our cycle and it may be of interest. Names of individuals I was dealing with have been purposely removed.

Getting the Non Clear R-Factor was the start of my stepping away from the Church. :happydance:

Excerpt....

Background

I attested to the State of Clear in 1986 having paid for all my lower Bridge services which were delivered at the AOSH ANZO.

However, in 2006 the Case Supervisor at the AOSH ANZO instructed the Director of Processing to give me a non Clear R-Factor (Reality Factor) off the meter. He then presented me with LRH's references to read which I did.

My first comment to the references provided, was that these are not new references, these were written back in the 60’s and 70’s, so I didn’t understand, as this was not new news. Further, I questioned him on the purpose of the Clear Certainty Rundown (CCRD) and the specific indicators/End Phenomena (EP) of this rundown. If these indicators are there and are acknowledged by the CS, you attest to achieving this state and now this whole enlightened state is not taken as TRUTH, there’s something wrong. He said he could not answer my query and was going to find out; I have not had an answer to this.

Since attesting to Clear back in 1986 I have expended funds for numerous services such as Sunshine Rundown, numerous case correction cycles, OT Preparations (a number of times), OT Eligibility FPRD style, Solo 1and Solo 2 etc. With the above R-Factor all the services after Clear and also now including the CCRD are voided and will need to be done again with the cost being borne by myself. Of Course, I would also have to pay for lower Bridge actions to get back up to Clear.

I attested to Clear in good faith that I was receiving Standard Technology as laid out by LRH and had total certainty that I had achieved this level. I have also had this Status check on two separate occasions since going Clear and the Status was validated.

To have this status removed 20 years after attesting because the Church so decides without any consultation with me and to deliver such a devastating R-Factor is totally unacceptable and so I have little or no faith in the Church’s ability to deliver Standard Technology.

As you would also be aware, auditing actions which occur after the State of Clear require a higher level auditor than lower level Bridge actions so not only have I completed and attested to Clear and auditing cycles after Clear I have also paid higher rates for these services.

To attest and have this Status removed is misrepresentation of the Clear Status and breaches the policy on ‘Delivering What Is Promised’. The Church validated this Status, it has the technology to do so and yet by some bazaar technical glitch the Church removes the status after 20 years this is too difficult to understand.

Further, in discussion with the AOSH ANZO’s Senior Case Supervisor, after my non Clear R-Factor, he informed me that there are many others who have also been given the same R-Factor. I asked what percentage of Clears are you talking about and he said 95%. This is an astounding percentage and hard to envisage that so many are not Clear.

At this point one would expect the Church to take full responsibility and recall all parishioners who are Clear and correct the non-standard delivery at its own cost and bring the parishioners status back up to Clear. Alas, this does not occur and the parishioner is held responsible financially for any auditing that needs to occur.

When given the R-Factor the psychological damage was so impacting that I became physically very ill to the point where I had to give up full time work so that I could recover. The recovery took nearly 12 months so not only was I oppressed spiritually, mentally and physically the action cost me financially and this is all due to inappropriate management of my spiritual case, the impact was almost deadly.

The Church has not taken responsibility to have this matter professionally handled without requesting more payments from me for more auditing to handle my upset and distress.

I do not now wish to have my non-Clear status reviewed by the Church, the damage has been done and there has been ample opportunity for the review to occur.

As a result, I no longer consider myself a Scientologist and I have also made this known on other requests for repayments/refunds. Also I no longer hold the scriptures to be valid and will not be partaking in any services provided by the Church.

My request for a refund of services is based on the above and demanding the Church makes restitution on the services I have received and of course this does not handle the extreme stress and duress I have experienced since stepping into the Church on the fateful day.

End...

So I just wanted to know if others have had this same R Factor and the impact on you and whether you feel there may be some action we can take.

I look forward to hearing from you.:thumbsup:

Kind regards
Happy Days
:dance3:

I understand this experience. I was twice adjudicated natural clear at london Org and St. Hill. many years later got doubts on clear after running
amazing stuff on a self elected FPRD. Had a traumatic few intensives basically invalidating the state of clear, in 1991. I eventually got the C/S to ack that I was clear.

I never returned to the COS. I knew that all that was awaiting me would be sec checks. They couldn't do that at the time as I'd come of the FPRD with massive wins, often going ext and very often refused auditing for reason
of persistent F/N.

I was still a scientologist but couldn't carry on with COS. Then years later I found there was an FZ. No problems since, and did OT 2&3 with great success. :)
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
"Invalidating Clears" is an old tradition of Scientology. First the person has to be told about "Clear," etc., then he or she is told how to get "Clear," and then becomes "Clear," then some time passes and what was "Clear" becomes no longer real "Clear." How many times has this happened broadly since 1950? At least four or five times. Oddly, Scientologists, who often remember back into the eons, have difficulty remembering back a few decades in their own cult's past. If they could, they'd see the patterns, and then wouldn't be so surprised. "Screwing people" is part of the "L. Ron Hubbard philosophy." It's a long and proud tradition.

Some more links re. "Clear":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=85713&postcount=4

Thanks Veda.. I agree with Scientologist not remembering back a few decades... including myself for that matter, until a person has the luxury of stepping back and really looking he/she gets submerged in the right now cycle, so cannot see what has occurred ... hence we have the cycle of the release of the Basics over and over again ... :duh:

I had an email from someone yesterday who said that people are getting through the grades O - IV in 2 weeks at Flag .... isn't there something out tech about promoting the speed of getting through grades and also it smacks of Quickie Grades to me :yes:

What's next .... a review of all non Clear r-factors :ohmy: ... it's just such a guessing game...
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
I knew that the % of people that were being screwed about like this was quite high. 95% is something of a shock really - fucking makes me want to cry.

Nick

I spent 2 years crying and getting very angry and agitated every time Clear, Bridge, auditing etc were mentioned ... it was such an emotional drain... I refused to talk to org terminals as they would try and handle me over the phone :duh:
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
I am so sorry that you went through this HD. I never reached Clear and so have not had this experience – I want to say well done and thank you for standing up for what you believe in. I admire your courageousness.

Just a thought: if scientology is having a hard time getting new public in – would this be a factor in getting those dedicated scientologist declassified as clear and therefore generate more income? Just a thought I had while reading your post….

We know the Church is driven to make more money... so I would have to say :yes: you bet ya... I had already expended $A65,000 after attesting to Clear and was C/S'ed for another 15 intensives... :omg: I couldn't believe it ...
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well-done Expanded Grades and NED is probably a damn good idea for people in Scn who have never had them. Did all these guys only want status?

Paul

'Status' my arse..... not me, it's about delivering what's promised... you put your case in the hands of a Case Supervisor, who apparently has all LRH tech at his disposal ... apparently well versed and proficient in his tech, has been drilled and drilled and knows it down pat ..... that's what you as a PC pay for... and yet we get the big f**k ups occurring..... that's just mind blowing...

You as a PC are expected to suck it up... the orgs justify it by saying we are a young religion blah blah... but on the other hand they say we have all the technology... we have the Bridge ... and in good faith you step on to that Bridge and are under the care and direction of your Case Supervisor, you are programmed for each action ...

Orgs promote 100% standard tech and delivery... well I tell ya now that's a load of crap...

Sorry Paul... there's not much love in my response
 

thetagal

Patron
Your Invalidation of the State of Clear Story

Wow!! That is soooooo unbelieveable!

Are Clears supposed to Walk on Water nowadays?

Can you write me privately?

Someone needs to let you get through the bridge to OT III and beyond without giving you arbitraries and stops.

It can be done in the Freezone.

You won't believe the difference...

thetagal @gmail.com :happydance: :happydance:

Pat
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
Devastation

I will fill in some missing gaps as best as I can recall them. When Liz got her non clear R factor she told the D of P that she didn't want our daughter Jordan to hear about this as she wanted to tell her herself...:bigcry:

She never got that opportunity, someone had taken it upon themselves to go and see our daughter and tell her "your mum just got told she isn't clear". If I could post something that represented a gloat here I would, you get the picture!:yes:

I really want to convey just how much invalidation my wife has experienced at the hands of the group called "Scientology", how do you get that across? Liz is tough and I love her for that, she gives me a hard time and I love her for that. She has integrity, I also love her for that. If you are a friend of hers she will defend you regardless of the personal cost, I love her for that. She is a stand up type of gal, she has spunk and fight, you guessed I love her for that too... WELL THAT WAS DESTROYED:bigcry: :bigcry: She just about died, we pulled through it... together, all the while I was supporting the perpetrators of the devastation. What a conflict!:omg:

To see your wife reduced made less of nullified, is DEVASTATING.

Let's get over the idea that this was about status, this was about agreement, at some point we all of us agreed, it doesn't matter upon what we agreed, if you entered in on Scientology, you agreed, it met with some point, no matter what; upon which you could and did agree, for me and possibly others it was being "clear".It didn't need a label, that helped but it could have been called? WTF Who cares? The state was described, it was said it could be attained.

So let us drop the cynicism, we have hindsight and sometimes that quality is not all it is cracked up to be. It provides us wisdom but going forward we don't always have the hindsight we need.

So in Scientology being clear is part of that "agreement" be as smart in hindsight as you F***ing well wish. But none of you, none of us, I bet would have had the foresight to predict you'd be sitting one day on this message board debating the "status of clear". Or any other of the so called statuses within the bunch of agreements call "SCIENTOLOGY".

We have ALL been duded. I do mean ALL OF US. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR STATUS!:ohmy: :ohmy:

These experiences got us all here, one way or the other. Yeah with better hindsight going forward we would not be here, but how the hell do you do that, maybe the more lofty amoungst us can point the way!

You go girl, post all you want about your journey, it after all is said and done, yours!:yes: :yes:


Lots of love
James
 
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ttamaad

Silver Meritorious Patron
well said James
Man, I feel for you and Liz.
No one "should" have to go through any of what you have described.

We are all here for different reasons but scientology and its lack of care rates highly in what most people have to say.

Enjoy the future!!!!
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
While I tend to agree that a lot of the current scios I have run in to are very glib, and could use the above, there is a point where you run into the case factor of "ownership" of charge, and if that in NOT correctly handled you will get some seriously balled up, wrapped around 15 different telephone pole kinds of cases.

I think the misownership issue is way, way overblown. More than that, it is false and leads to a lessened responsibility level.

Hubbard invented the whole BT/Cluster trip. There do seem to be some related phenomena, but not the way he has it laid out. At the point of Clear, the individual supposedly "separates out" from the composite remaining BTs and Clusters he has around him in his immediate space, while realising he has been continuously moment-by-moment mocking up "his bank" (not that he DID mock it up way back in the past and has been carrying it along with him ever since but that he has been creating it in present time bam-bam-bam-bam-bam- . . . ).

After that it's pretty much all their fault!

I haven't spoken to him for a couple of years, but I used to chat a lot with Robert D. He has been auditing R3X full-time for a decade. He told me that he audits it on new people and on OT VIIIs and everyone in-between and very, very rarely runs into misownership troubles. He runs his version of souped-up R3R without worrying about ownership at all, and says it is very rarely a problem. The only time it is a problem is when Scios have been thoroughly indoctrinated into ownership worries and MAKE it a problem.

Personally I've done hundreds of hours of auditing on all kinds of things since leaving the CofS, and never had a moment of "ownership" trouble. The argument that I'm "not up to differentiating the charge" doesn't wash because I did just that very well in the CofS. Back in 2003 or so I found some charge that only resolved on being another's charge, but very remote to me, so I'm not going to be absolute about another's charge not sometimes impinging on one. But as a constant every-time issue that has to be checked before the fact, no way.

Paul
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
I spent 2 years crying and getting very angry and agitated every time Clear, Bridge, auditing etc were mentioned ... it was such an emotional drain... I refused to talk to org terminals as they would try and handle me over the phone :duh:

Yes. I can well understand. I went through a period of, I don't know exactly, about 10 years where I wouldn't talk about the subject at all. When I say "the subject" I mean the whole shooting match - all matters spiritual of any kind whatsoever - not just Clear.

For me, I got it sorted out when I found the FZ - but I understand the point of view of those who don't trust even that. Getting one's clear "status" messed about is not just "status" - it is a monster betrayal.

Nick
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Interesting thread. My experiences with it are that I delivered 100s of D of Ps to people who claimed to be Clear. Some of them were brought in off the street, who were told by body routers that they might be Clear. Anyone who originated Clear was so declred to be so at that time. I would do these Dof Ps and ack these people and send the admin off to the C/S. These persons, at that time, were adjudicated to be Clear, even tho they didn't know what it was, had no auditing, and prolly never showed back up.
There were many, many scn'ists who showed up in my auditing room as well. Nearly all Staff came in. They were all adjudicated to be Clear.
Then the DCSI ( Dianetic Clear Special Intensive) was issued. I delivered 100s of those. It was a bit more difficult to "pass" this Clear check, in that the person had to voice, or had to have voiced in their auditing, the Clear "cog". This had to be accompanied by a floating TA. The majority of the HGC auditors could not get a person to manifest the floating TA, or didn't know one when they saw it. It was a sham. Some who were legitimately Clear were denied. Others who could give you the TA float were allowed, or if the Auditor could cause the person's TA to float, it was a cinch that they would be adjudicated Clear.
Then The CCRD came out. I was ordered to cancel Clear states on many people. I said "screw this, I'm not gonna do it". I refused to handle anymore Clear cycles, and began to audit OT 3 Reviews.


Chlng
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
On the other hand, there were Clears that had never been acknowledged. I think of the 40 or 50 OldTimers that I delivered the service to ( free). They were not thrilled to have the ack 25/30 years overdue.
But for so many, including the then current members, it explained SO much. It explained "no Case gain". It explained inability to run R3R. "unacknowledged Clear" was an excellent explanation for PTS ness. It says so right there in the promo.
The phones were sure busy calling every PC on the planet to come in and get their Clear check.
It was sweet in a way. Everyone who had the service felt that they had a "win". They didn't relize that the 'joy' that they felt over "finding out that they were really Clear", was felt mostly because they had achieved a goal that had been set to go Clear.
But now they were Clear, they could "move on up the Bridge" to the glorious OT levels.
I never have heard of anyone who did the Clearing Course in Cos being told that they weren't Clear. Have you?

Chlng
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I never have heard of anyone who did the Clearing Course in Cos being told that they weren't Clear. Have you?

Chlng

There has been rumours that DM now says only those who did CC are clear. But he's not an acceptable tech source.

If as HD says 95% are being told not clear, would that include some who did clearing course?

Note OT 7s have been given the R-factor, not clear.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
From memory, the "not clear" r-factors have been going on since before the Nineties. They were happening to a lot of those on OT VII when the "OTs need to do Grades" came out ('94?).

Quite a few long-time scilons were given these "you-are-not-Clear" r-factors when they arrived at FSO for their six-month checks and then had to run Grades and Ned again until they "went Clear."

I know it was beginning to happen in '88 as anyone who had "unhandled" homosexual tendencies was "obviously" not Clear per Science of Survival - there were several that happened while I was there doing my Cl IV internship.
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
This thread PROVES that this Clear thing and even the OT levels is all CRAP.

95% told they were not Clear................what a criminal organization they have received millions world wide and delivered NOTHING :omg:
I too was given the non clear r-factor but being OT5 I first got told I had attention on OT5 and need to do it again, yea right (6 intensives), then later get told that I am not clear.

Why not just say so in the beginning, whats this "attention on OT5"

They lied to me firstly by saying I had achieved Clear and the subsequent levels and then lied about the attention on OT5 when it was actually that I was not clear.

I was also told to say that I was on an advanced program instead of saying that I was given a non clear r factor. Of course all the OT's around new what it meant this "advanced program" but at least it would not wave flags for those lower on the bridge about how could someone be OT and told he is not clear.:censored:
Another bloody lie :grouch:
There is no integrity in Scientology anymore, lies, deception and false promises on what the tech can deliver.:itstrue:
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
It may well prove that you don't want to touch the CoS with a barge pole - it proves nothing about clear one way or the other.

Nick

The concept of Clear and OT maybe a great idea.

I beg to differ as to if this proves something about the state of clear one way or the other.

If an idea can not be brought about successfully into a product it makes no difference how good the concept is on paper. So far on paper its great but looking for the product of Clear shows its flaws you can't deny that.

All this tech has been around long enough to have done some thing constructive and produce consistent and true Clears. Where are they?:confused2:

The amount of bad products and controversy the tech has produced around this state of clear is immense. Now if it's just that the tech has been all screwed up or never worked in the first place we will never really know.

So will this state ever REALLY be achieved I would say NO.
 

Lesolee (Sith Lord)

Patron Meritorious
There has been rumours that DM now says only those who did CC are clear.

That actually makes sense. There is no need to erase Basic-Basic to erase later stuff on the track so it should be ok to run OTII before the Clearing Course. Higher OT levels seem to be runnable as well without handling Basic-Basic, as evidenced by Slavinski's "Invisible Influences" book (which I haven't actually got around to reading yet, but which appears to have many different methods of handling entities from various groups.)

A non-Clear R-factor with a chance to do the Clearing Course should be ok. Re-doing NED and the Grades is totally out of order. :no:

Most people won't have looked at the Clearing Course materials. Here's a small snip from the Clearing Course booklet (from Wikileaks) ...
You are not seeking Release from the bank at this level. You are erasing.
Therefore “the bank has blown” is nonsense - one has blown from the
bank, so get back in it and run it. Total erasure is the aim.

Compare this to the "Clear Cog".
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Obviously, THEY DON'T KNOW. The tech has changed so much over the years, flip-flop, flip-flop, that an adjudication in the CofS that one is "Clear" or "Not-Clear" is pretty meaningless in absolute terms. It makes a difference as to what services they will let you do *in the CofS* but in reality outside the CofS you can do whatever the hell you want to. Right now I'm not at all sure that there even exists a state with well-defined parameters that one could call "Clear."

You either need to learn to solo stuff, or know people who will do it for you.

My idea as to whether or not it can be done solo is to try it and see. If it doesn't work out for you, then I see three inter-related options:

1. Get more training, until you are more competent and confident as a solo auditor

2. Get your case into better shape with work from another practitioner

3. Research out and use better technology(ies) than regular Scn.

Or you always give up entirely. Many people seem to have taken this option.

Paul
 
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