Non Clear R- Factors

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
It's not so much the fact of whether someone is or could ever be "clear" but the fact that the orgs put that there as a very definite state that they promote and then have you attest to. That the status is later removed after the ORG has declared you Clear is completely ludicrous. It is not up to the Parishioner to determine how you get there or when you have arrived. The orgs must take responsibility for the correct application of tech and qual must ensure that they do. Note that Clears and OTs were given this R-Factor all over the world - there was no determination between time or how the status was achieved ie. OTs got it, post-GAT Clears got it, those who attested to Clear at Class V Orgs got it, those that attested at Flag got it, CCRD trained auditors and Class IX auditors delivered the auditing and their PC attested to Clear and then got the R-Factor. My point is that sure, there were probably some people who read The Way To Happiness, walked into an org and attested to Clear and probably shouldn't have - THAT'S MY POINT. They were allowed to, were certified and later had that taken away and that only says one thing to me: The Orgs do not know what they are delivering. Regardless of whether a person is Clear or not, the responsibility rests on the organisation certifying and delivering it in my opinion and they need to promote it correctly ie. this is a state that we may or may not be able to deliver and we may or may not change the delivery and/or your state in future, would you still like to hand over that $50,000? :duh:


Yep! And what about when you get declared after 350KUSD and they cancel ALL your certs?

Uniquemand said:
I think that the real OT Level is Life, operating therein. Doing the Grades or any procedure called for is nothing more than a "boost" to get you ready to do better on that OT Level. If those actions aren't geared towards that, someone's getting ripped off.

You are correct also sir. That is why the lower grades are called "set-ups". You are being "set up" in the true normal meaning of the word.

Hubbard set the game up so that those at the lower levels of scientology do NOT know about the scam. Most scientologists, including most Sea Org, are true believers, and just like at each level of the Bridge, a scientologist learns more and more as he moves up the heirarchy within the cult. The experience of a public is going to be alot different from that of a Mission staff, Org staff, Sea Org, CMO, INT, etc.

LRH wrote alot of references about games, and reading them now, after I am out, I see that he really did tell us exactly what he was doing, we just didn't see that he was doing it to us.

Remember the saying "The best place to hide something is right in plain sight."? I think that is just what Hubbard did with alot of things.

This is at the end of PDC lecture 39 of 12 Dec 52 titled
"Games Processing":

"Now the caste system of games consists of this -


The Maker of Games - He has no rules, he runs by no rules.


The Players of the Game - Rules know but he obeys them.


The Assistant Players - Merely obey the players.


The Peices - Obey rules as dictated by players, but
they don't know the rules. (and then what do you know?).


And then there's Broken Pieces - They aren't even in the
game but they're still in the game (and they are in a terrible
maybe, am I in a game or am I not in a game).


Now, how to make a piece (this is how to make a piece) -


1. Deny that there is a game
2. Hide the rules from them
3. Give them all the penalties and no wins
4. Remove all goals (ALL Goals)


Enforce their playing.
Inhibit their enjoying.


Make them look like but forbid their being like players
(look like god but you can't be god).


To make a piece continue to be a piece, permit it to associate
only with pieces and deny the existence of players (never
let the PCs find out that there are players).


Now out of this you're going to get a game". - L Ron Hubbard
 

thetaCannon

Patron
That's an amazingly sad story, I'm glad that you eventually started feeling well again.

Can I comment? I never experienced this kind of situation myself but this opinion might be useful to some others:

One of the biggest crimes of Hubbard/CofS, I think, is in selling people on items with multiple definitions... presenting the most outrageous and magical version first ($$$), and then slowly revealing the sorry substitute. Clear is one example, another is "OT levels are actually pre-OT levels".

Other posters are right, the definition of Clear has been split and watered down several times... Sure, Hubbard's theory of how the world works may suggest that such a thing is possible, but overwhelming evidence says that he was wrong, and therefore expectations are set way too high (and people obviously get seriously hurt by that).

The fact that CofS still sells "Clear" as a concept is just an indication that they found a more realistic definition they could legally get away with, and never had the integrity to scrub the hype from their materials.
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
Now, how to make a piece (this is how to make a piece) -


1. Deny that there is a game
2. Hide the rules from them
3. Give them all the penalties and no wins
4. Remove all goals (ALL Goals)


Enforce their playing.
Inhibit their enjoying.


Make them look like but forbid their being like players

Yes, that is quite a good summary of what can effectively happen in the CoS

Nick
 

Gadfly

Crusader
"Now the caste system of games consists of this -

The Maker of Games - He has no rules, he runs by no rules.

The Players of the Game - Rules known but he obeys them.

The Assistant Players - Merely obey the players.

The Pieces - Obey rules as dictated by players, but they don't know the rules. (and then what do you know?).

And then there's Broken Pieces - They aren't even in the game but they're still in the game (and they are in a terrible maybe, am I in a game or am I not in a game).

Now, how to make a piece (this is how to make a piece) -

1. Deny that there is a game
2. Hide the rules from them
3. Give them all the penalties and no wins
4. Remove all goals (ALL Goals)

Enforce their playing.
Inhibit their enjoying.

Make them look like but forbid their being like players (look like god but you can't be god).

To make a piece continue to be a piece, permit it to associate only with pieces and deny the existence of players (never let the PCs find out that there are players).

Now out of this you're going to get a game". - L Ron Hubbard

So, given the above definitions, can someone help me out here. On Earth, describe for me each of the levels. Who are the game makers, the players, the assitant players, and the pieces?

I am sure people well versed in conspiracy theories might have some opinions along these lines.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
So, given the above definitions, can someone help me out here. On Earth, describe for me each of the levels. Who are the game makers, the players, the assitant players, and the pieces?

I am sure people well versed in conspiracy theories might have some opinions along these lines.

Let's see how this might work or once have worked in the CofS. . . .

The Maker of Games - He has no rules, he runs by no rules.
The Mighty Midget, obviously. Although Hubbard is supposed to be at this level, and DM at the level below, i.e. DM is supposed to follow Hubbard's policy.

The Players of the Game - Rules known but he obeys them.
Int Management, who follow policy, but create plans and programs that align with policy in order to achieve the goals and sub-goals (purposes) laid down by the big cheese.

The Assistant Players - Merely obey the players.
Middle management, who don't create their own plans and programs but run with those handed down by Int Management, and enforce compliance to them on lower echelons. They should get compliance to areas, groups of orgs, but in the CofS they just bypassed lower continental management and ordered directly into individual orgs.

The Pieces - Obey rules as dictated by players, but they don't know the rules. (and then what do you know?).
Lower-level management, who (in theory) get program targets done in local orgs, and report compliance up lines. Independent thought not allowed, even if program targets are nonsensical in the context of that particular org.

And then there's Broken Pieces - They aren't even in the game but they're still in the game (and they are in a terrible maybe, am I in a game or am I not in a game).
The beleaguered org staff, the guys on the ground who actually do the work, in the small amount of time left when they're not writing reports about how they are going to do it or documenting what they did do or querying how fucking stupid it is to even try.

Paul
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Let's see how this might work or once have worked in the CofS. . . .

The Maker of Games - He has no rules, he runs by no rules.
The Mighty Midget, obviously. Although Hubbard is supposed to be at this level, and DM at the level below, i.e. DM is supposed to follow Hubbard's policy.

The Players of the Game - Rules known but he obeys them.
Int Management, who follow policy, but create plans and programs that align with policy in order to achieve the goals and sub-goals (purposes) laid down by the big cheese.

The Assistant Players - Merely obey the players.
Middle management, who don't create their own plans and programs but run with those handed down by Int Management, and enforce compliance to them on lower echelons. They should get compliance to areas, groups of orgs, but in the CofS they just bypassed lower continental management and ordered directly into individual orgs.

The Pieces - Obey rules as dictated by players, but they don't know the rules. (and then what do you know?).
Lower-level management, who get program targets done in local orgs, and report compliance up lines. Independent thought not allowed, even if program targets are nonsensical in the context of that particular org.

And then there's Broken Pieces - They aren't even in the game but they're still in the game (and they are in a terrible maybe, am I in a game or am I not in a game).
The beleaguered org staff, the guys on the ground who actually do the work, in the small amount of time left when they're not writing reports about how they are going to do it or documenting what they did do or querying how fucking stupid it is to even try.

Paul

Works for me, aligns with my experience as staff.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
I would hope so. It's pretty much straight out of what I remember of the Command Channels booklet!

Paul

I well remember the days of my Div.6 senior at CCI, the PES, getting visited, badgered and hammered hourly for stats by the CO and his Comm; the strange looks it brought to the faces of any public in the area. To myself I thought, 'now that's dev-t!'. Leave the poor bastard alone and he might get some production!
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
What do you mean by "what can effectively happen"?

It is the primary goal of Hubbard's cult tech, anything short of that is not "Standard Tech"

Well, um, perhaps I don't practice standard tech then :coolwink:

Anyway, if you're from the Marcabian Institute of Psychiatry, as your location suggests, I guess you'd know :thumbsup:

Nick
 

marty

Patron with Honors
Hulda Clark Zapper

Or one I've noticed in myself sometimes is the tendency to ridge when told what to do is far more pronounced if I haven't zapped (Hulda Clark) for a while, and goes away instantly if I do zap.

This is an interesting comment Paul. Have you expanded on this in some other thread? Excuse my ill-informed idea of it but I thought all this thing did was kill unsavioury bugs by flooding the body with 1kHZ square waves full of harmonics. It does more than this?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Or one I've noticed in myself sometimes is the tendency to ridge when told what to do is far more pronounced if I haven't zapped (Hulda Clark) for a while, and goes away instantly if I do zap.

This is an interesting comment Paul. Have you expanded on this in some other thread? Excuse my ill-informed idea of it but I thought all this thing did was kill unsavioury bugs by flooding the body with 1kHZ square waves full of harmonics. It does more than this?

I haven't expanded on it much elsewhere, although I have mentioned it before.

You're right, in that it is designed to kill bugs. I observe that (reportedly) nuking the little critters chomping their way through your brain has mental effects too. The first time I used it I was AMAZED at the mental change even ten minutes after I started. I was using the "simplest zapper in the world" version, basically two e-meter cans hooked up to the poles of a 9 volt battery and make/break the circuit by tapping the palm on the +ve can as fast as possible, maybe 5x a second, 5 Hz instead of 1 kHZ. The perceived noise in my head had quietened down to nothing, and I was calm and serene. I told my friends it was like I felt when I attested Clear (I almost got declared for that remark in my subsequent comm ev!).

She doesn't hype up any mental effects. I wasn't expecting any mental changes from zapping, only physical ones, and they were a very pleasant surprise to me.

Paul
 

marty

Patron with Honors
5 HZ is very low compared to the 1kHZ specified. Rather than zapping bugs you might actually be doing something else.

http://www.guide-to-self-help-techniques.com/brain-waves.html

Also the way you produced that 5HZ would have been anything but a clean square wave - full of high frequency harmonics and radio noise - Heinrich Hertz would have been proud of you.

What frequencies have you tried and were the results different?

Anyway sounds interesting. I think I have an NE555 in my stuff some where - might give it a try.
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
Also the way you produced that 5HZ would have been anything but a clean square wave - full of high frequency harmonics and radio noise - Heinrich Hertz would have been proud of you.

IIRC, a clean square wave at any given frequency is a combination of sine waves at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9x.... your base frequency - so it has, or is made of, higher frequency harmonics anyway.

Nick
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
5 HZ is very low compared to the 1kHZ specified. Rather than zapping bugs you might actually be doing something else.

http://www.guide-to-self-help-techniques.com/brain-waves.html

Also the way you produced that 5HZ would have been anything but a clean square wave - full of high frequency harmonics and radio noise - Heinrich Hertz would have been proud of you.

What frequencies have you tried and were the results different?

Anyway sounds interesting. I think I have an NE555 in my stuff some where - might give it a try.

The 5Hz method is given by Hulda Clark herself in her book The Cure for All Diseases. The text is often available free online, for instance at http://www.scribd.com/doc/7550914/Hulda-Regehr-Clark-The-Cure-for-All-Diseases

Paul
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
The 5Hz method is given by Hulda Clark herself in her book The Cure for All Diseases. The text is often available free online, for instance at http://www.scribd.com/doc/7550914/Hulda-Regehr-Clark-The-Cure-for-All-Diseases

Paul

Hi
Excuse me for my ignorance??? But this thread is to do with Non-Clear R Factors .. start another thread if you wish to be further enlightened on this 5Hz stuff ... many thanks..

For some of us Non-Clear R Factor is an important issue.
 

marty

Patron with Honors
I was one of those C/Ss that got heavily caught up in the review of stalled Clears (IG30 program I think it was) while at Flag. For three months I did nothing else and got to look deeply into many many folders.I saw a lot of extremely bad stuff in some of those folders. The particular bad ones were from the seventies early eighties but not limited to this period. People seem to attest to Clear (and other things) at the drop of a hat in the early days.

When the "evidence" from folder review was doubtfull an interview of the applicable worksheets was done to ascertain if what was written was actually what was said. If this didnt resolve it the CCRD was redone. from this a lot of people lost their Clear status and reprogrammed onto the lower bridge.

Ironically, although I was well into my OT levels at the time, I one year later was also receiving that interview and subsequently found myself declared not clear. It was a big shock to me and a hard pill to swallow. I went back and did another 25 hrs of NED and another CCRd cycle.

Even now years later I still have a little bit of attention (BPC) on that cycle that should probably be addressed.
Its actually hard to have a "clear" cog when you already thoroughly know what it is. You tend to get into a Q&A with yourself about actually having it as apposed to already knowing it. Perhaps I still havent had it.

In my interview (per IG30 review) the auditor read back to me what I allegedly said in session and I was shocked, I knew I never said that. For 10 years after my CCRD in the late eighties I had thought that the Clear cog was an awareness of other beings in my space or that there are beings in ones space. I definitely had not had a clear cog. How my CCRD auditor arrived at me saying the exact wording of the cog dumfounds me. It was a severe reality adjustment to me that some auditors need to be watched.

In subsequent years as a C/S I insisted that CCRDs were videoed and I always checked that point of the session that the clear cog was alledgedly stated.

What should happen when the church makes cock ups like this is to take responsibility for it and free of charge fix it and deliver what was promised. Isnt going to happen though because that would require real group integrity.
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was one of those C/Ss that got heavily caught up in the review of stalled Clears (IG30 program I think it was) while at Flag. For three months I did nothing else and got to look deeply into many many folders.I saw a lot of extremely bad stuff in some of those folders. The particular bad ones were from the seventies early eighties but not limited to this period. People seem to attest to Clear (and other things) at the drop of a hat in the early days.

When the "evidence" from folder review was doubtfull an interview of the applicable worksheets was done to ascertain if what was written was actually what was said. If this didnt resolve it the CCRD was redone. from this a lot of people lost their Clear status and reprogrammed onto the lower bridge.

Ironically, although I was well into my OT levels at the time, I one year later was also receiving that interview and subsequently found myself declared not clear. It was a big shock to me and a hard pill to swallow. I went back and did another 25 hrs of NED and another CCRd cycle.

Even now years later I still have a little bit of attention (BPC) on that cycle that should probably be addressed.
Its actually hard to have a "clear" cog when you already thoroughly know what it is. You tend to get into a Q&A with yourself about actually having it as apposed to already knowing it. Perhaps I still havent had it.

In my interview (per IG30 review) the auditor read back to me what I allegedly said in session and I was shocked, I knew I never said that. For 10 years after my CCRD in the late eighties I had thought that the Clear cog was an awareness of other beings in my space or that there are beings in ones space. I definitely had not had a clear cog. How my CCRD auditor arrived at me saying the exact wording of the cog dumfounds me. It was a severe reality adjustment to me that some auditors need to be watched.

In subsequent years as a C/S I insisted that CCRDs were videoed and I always checked that point of the session that the clear cog was alledgedly stated.

What should happen when the church makes cock ups like this is to take responsibility for it and free of charge fix it and deliver what was promised. Isnt going to happen though because that would require real group integrity.

Yeah, well, I gave them the clear cog in the DCSI - and it is in the worksheets - coz I f***ing well looked for myself one day - and they got it in the CCRD as well - still weren't good enough for them. For my money they don't know what the hell they are doing.

Nick
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I gave the Clear cog during an interview, having never had any dianetics or NED, just sec-checking and some objectives. I knew I was mocking it all up from the time I started having problems. For me, having problems was a solution to not being like the rest of my peers.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
hmmmm....

See this was always a bugger for me. I received an R Factor that I needed a new CCRD, and I harrassed the D of P like crazy---I was told in NO WAY that my Clear state was being invalidated, just that being one of the first to do my CCRDs--it was botched. (I felt like hell after it, so I couldn't argue). I'm sure I was a confusing particle, because, after working on OTHER CCRD cycles on others...I realized I spit out the Clear Cog and had the phenomena during my first real Book 1 session. Luckily, I later found some last life stuff that could explain miraculously going 'Clear' so quickly.

After a bit---my first folder got lost (during the pull of folders when trying to find out why Clears weren't progressing--duh, I was broke from my time on staff) So, my "textbook cog" disappeared--had a co-auditor who snidely insinuate how glad SHE did her CCRD during GAT... kind of implying I hadn't. Uh, I read her folder, and per the "tech" I knew she was in for a letdown. Yep, her status got yanked. A bunch of them got yanked...I read SO many folders where folks had attested when they didn't meet the criteria, it astounded me. I don't believe in the tech anymore, but back then? We had one gal who got her R-Factor...and she kept crying and needing repair after repair....and she was continually complaining of things that bothered her that should have been handled by the State of Clear... I thought I'd be HAPPY to know I wasn't Clear if I had that going on. Otherwise I'd think it was a sham! Unfortunately for me, all my BS seemed to be able to be classified under FPRD case...I was just MORE subject to it now that I was Clear. lol. Gimme a break.

We had people who had delivered CCRDs at Flag who ended up being told they were not Clear...it was crazy. A lot of folks were NOT Clear, per the definitions (80% of old-time staff), but it just seems like such insane BS to me at this point. But, the Clear/Not Clear thing really messed with people. It was sick. Oh...and when I was being offloaded, the DSA told me "Don't worry, this will all be better when you go Clear...." uh, I am Clear.... lol. I was never so foggy in my life! Yep, I cogged...but I was a slave.... NOW things are getting Clear. The whole thing makes my blood boil when I see how folks have just gone crazy over this "state".
 
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