Not all the way "out" yet. My views and introduction

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
it's good to hear from you!

Hey there Mr. KnightVision"- I am glad that you are posting again--I missed -what you have to say.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Do you expect your ideas and opinions of Scn to change as you go along studying the subject outside the CofS? Or do you expect your ideas to stay more or less the same?


Only time - and experience - will truly tell.
Nicki

Dear Nicki,

yes you are right "only time and experience will truly tell" - and time and experience told me that the technology of LRH doesn't work and that Scientology is hurting many many people in so many different ways. I knew and know many many Scientologists and observed their life and behaviour over 32 years - I made my own experiences in life in my job with my family in my soccer club and I learned that only a very small percetage of hubbards tech is usefull for me in life as I want to live it and the parts that are useful were not invented by him but he adopted them from other wise men. Well this is what I observed for me and my way to happiness in life. But I can say that I tried both - using the Tech inside the "church" and using it outside in the "free world". While doing this I found many other philosophies of life which were much more usefull for me than Hubbards teachings.
As I said before this is only my observation of this important matter in my life but I have only this choice - I have to observe and to learn by my own and for me this is one thing that was totally suppressed when I was in the Cos and what is suppressed for all the people I know which are still in this "church"

Lets say it with some words of Albert Einstein: "Wir glauben, dass die Wissenschaft der Menschheit am besten dient, wenn sie sich von aller Beeinflussung durch irgendwelche Dogmen frei hält und sich das Recht vorbehält, alle Thesen einschließlich ihrer eigenen anzuzweifeln."
"Die Welt wird nicht von den Menschen bedroht die böse sind, sondern von denen die das Böse zulassen." (I hope you can find a way to translate this)
"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing"

Scientologists are not allowed to look at the world without having Scientology glasses on - I hope you will take a very good look at the world without your Scientology glasses and then I'm looking forward to talk to you again - lets say after one year.

And to answer your question directly - my opinions about the CoS and the world are changing all the time. There is no one truth in life as Hubbard tries to tell you - his truth. But we have to live our life by using the truth we have in present time even if we know that it could change quickly.
And if I see injustice and big crimes I have to do something about it -especially when my family and friends are involved so deeply.
I hope you understand this.

It is great that you started to look what is out there :hattip:

I hope that you will continue your journey. I'm sure that you will find a very different reality than you have right now and I'm sure that you will never have exactly the same reality as I have but that's fine you are another person and this is what makes this life so thrilling.

Much love

Markus
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think that the militant minority is much more provocative (while being idiotic) than anybody else on this board.

They have no tolerance in their heart, though they talk about fawning love... those beautiful vibrations... big heart and what not...

My foot! :whistling: Double-faced theety-weeties...

.


:melodramatic:
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
How do you know?

Well I know because I’ve been to Emma’s and seen all those ‘bold and artistic’ photos that you sent her. :yes:

And while it may have been rather small, ‘Mr Winkie’ is clearly present, making you indisputably a male of the human variety.

Ax
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
KnightVision,

this was just an example of a S.A.D. A Stupid Alanzo Diversion.

The phenomena is now well understood in this sector of the Galaxy.

We have a discussion going along nicely, fairly well behaved, polite and good tempered, even though strong questions and opinions are exchanged. Nevertheless the thread is going along nicely.

Then someone, he knows who he is, accuses others, they know who they are, of saying something everybody knows they didn't! :roflmao: This is a SAD. A Stupid Alanzo Diversion.

There is no need for names, because they know who they are. The phenomena of a SAD are generalisations, ridicule, misrepresentation and the response to any protest about the SAD is a further enforcing of the SAD with more ridicule and misrepresentation.

Words often used in a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) include, but are not limited to "militant", "cesspool", "Nazi" and other derogatory words. These words are aimed at nobody in particular as they know who they are.

The key element of a SAD is to sneeringly accuse un-named people of saying things they didn't and it is a repetitive, iterative process. The apparent desired result is to divert the thread into no longer discussing that which was being discussed, but rather to stir up bad tempered squabbles on the thread which are almost nothing to do with the subject originally being discussed.

One can see a SAD was implemented on this thread and see the ensuing arguments, sometimes between others than the original perpetrator of the SAD.

The motivation for a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) is unknown on this planet at this time, but the remedy is a simple one.

Remedy for a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) is to simply laugh merrily! :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
I totally understand how you feel. I felt the exact same way you are feeling for almost ten years now, until a couple of days ago. I did not really consider my self a Scientologist because I have my own religious beliefs and I thought it was okay to practice scientology because after all it is an applied phylosophy and a non denominal religion. I always spoke good of the church though I witnessed first hand the treatment of some of the people that I feel was not very nice or humble coming from sea org members. I particularly did not like how rich people were given special treatment, whether you were in the sea or or not. I especially did not like how in the sea org. 2d's were broken up or disconnected. how is this suppose to help mankind or society if families and loved ones are separated and hurt? where is the compasion and love? I saw how the entire organization is run like a business. I always thought that LRH made it a religion to avoid taxes and that it was a genius tactic to really preserve the tech. but i never mentioned this thought to anyone because i believed in the tech and i thought that it really helped me in my life and i recommended it to many people. but there are just certain things that never sat well with me, mainly the fact that LRH is practically worshiped. I don't care how much of a humanitarian someone in this planet is, be it LRH, Buddah, Mohammed, etc. I truly believe that NO MAN IS WORTHY of PRAISE! Literally a couple of days ago I decided to search the net and see what all the negative shit was about. I was blown away. I now feel like an elephant has been lifted over my shoulders, as if a veil over my eyes have been lifted. how could I have been sooo gullible? Just so u know, LRH was a genius in making people believe like he is the only person on this planet that has ever discovered all of the "tech" (i wont get into detail cause those who know, you can write a book on this shit) when in fact it is "universal law" that has always existed and he was definitely not the first nor the last person to put it in writing. At the same time I am deeply saddened because I truely care for some people in the church and I wish they knew what I know now. I don't know if they would ever doubt LRH or that other bastard DM. I hope and Pray that the son of bitch DM (COB) will soon be exposed to EVERYONE on this planet. I hope that everyone in the sea org sees the truth and blow right out of there!!!
Sincerely,
NJ

Hi, and welcome Norma Jean! :thumbsup:

Well done for drawing the veil from your eyes. Once one is out of the strict thought control of the CofS, the deceptions inherent in the ethics, admin and auditing tech that LRH developed become more obvious. Once they leave the CofS, people tend to go through a journey of enlightenment as to the true nature of Ron's cult.
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
I totally understand how you feel. I felt the exact same way you are feeling for almost ten years now, until a couple of days ago. I did not really consider my self a Scientologist because I have my own religious beliefs and I thought it was okay to practice scientology because after all it is an applied phylosophy and a non denominal religion. I always spoke good of the church though I witnessed first hand the treatment of some of the people that I feel was not very nice or humble coming from sea org members. I particularly did not like how rich people were given special treatment, whether you were in the sea or or not. I especially did not like how in the sea org. 2d's were broken up or disconnected. how is this suppose to help mankind or society if families and loved ones are separated and hurt? where is the compasion and love? I saw how the entire organization is run like a business. I always thought that LRH made it a religion to avoid taxes and that it was a genius tactic to really preserve the tech. but i never mentioned this thought to anyone because i believed in the tech and i thought that it really helped me in my life and i recommended it to many people. but there are just certain things that never sat well with me, mainly the fact that LRH is practically worshiped. I don't care how much of a humanitarian someone in this planet is, be it LRH, Buddah, Mohammed, etc. I truly believe that NO MAN IS WORTHY of PRAISE! Literally a couple of days ago I decided to search the net and see what all the negative shit was about. I was blown away. I now feel like an elephant has been lifted over my shoulders, as if a veil over my eyes have been lifted. how could I have been sooo gullible? Just so u know, LRH was a genius in making people believe like he is the only person on this planet that has ever discovered all of the "tech" (i wont get into detail cause those who know, you can write a book on this shit) when in fact it is "universal law" that has always existed and he was definitely not the first nor the last person to put it in writing. At the same time I am deeply saddened because I truely care for some people in the church and I wish they knew what I know now. I don't know if they would ever doubt LRH or that other bastard DM. I hope and Pray that the son of bitch DM (COB) will soon be exposed to EVERYONE on this planet. I hope that everyone in the sea org sees the truth and blow right out of there!!!
Sincerely,
NJ

NJ :welcome: to ESMB!!! So glad you are here. . . What you said could have been me. It is really a rude awakening, and very difficult at first to make sense of everything. You are already posting here -- that's going to help you a bunch. . . .this is a great board -- you get to reflect, analyze, lament, make friends and most of all, laugh!!

. . . and we'd love to hear all about it, when you feel like telling your story!

:)TL
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sorry... but ya know what's missing here? The willingness to allow others to believe what they believe. scn can be good for some. For Some. Not All. Not even the majority. For Awhile. Not for long. Think man. Scn is a dinky sci-fi philo. Known to a scant few of the worlds populace. It will never reach the many that Catholicism, Christianity, Muslim-ism or Buddhism has. Never. No chance, no way, no how. And there's a reason. Figure out that reason and you'll perhaps realize that your comment of 'The militant minority' is a delusion perhaps given license by scn doctrine itself. Those who find Scn to be utter nonsense are the MAJORITY OF THE POPULACE. And that's a static statistic. Amen.

Hey there Mr. KnightVision"- I am glad that you are posting again--I missed -what you have to say.

KV! :love8: I only came onto this stupid thread to see if you rode in on your white horse :kangaroo: to save the day :fencing: - and you did!!! :buzzin: I was afraid to come on this thread before. I really missed you, guy! :heartflower:

:welcome: nicki!
:welcome: norma jean!
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
KnightVision,

this was just an example of a S.A.D. A Stupid Alanzo Diversion.

The phenomena is now well understood in this sector of the Galaxy.

We have a discussion going along nicely, fairly well behaved, polite and good tempered, even though strong questions and opinions are exchanged. Nevertheless the thread is going along nicely.

Then someone, he knows who he is, accuses others, they know who they are, of saying something everybody knows they didn't! :roflmao: This is a SAD. A Stupid Alanzo Diversion.

There is no need for names, because they know who they are. The phenomena of a SAD are generalisations, ridicule, misrepresentation and the response to any protest about the SAD is a further enforcing of the SAD with more ridicule and misrepresentation.

Words often used in a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) include, but are not limited to "militant", "cesspool", "Nazi" and other derogatory words. These words are aimed at nobody in particular as they know who they are.

The key element of a SAD is to sneeringly accuse un-named people of saying things they didn't and it is a repetitive, iterative process. The apparent desired result is to divert the thread into no longer discussing that which was being discussed, but rather to stir up bad tempered squabbles on the thread which are almost nothing to do with the subject originally being discussed.

One can see a SAD was implemented on this thread and see the ensuing arguments, sometimes between others than the original perpetrator of the SAD.

The motivation for a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) is unknown on this planet at this time, but the remedy is a simple one.

Remedy for a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) is to simply laugh merrily! :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Thanks LH!

Nice acronym by the way. SAD, SAD sort there. Well... we can show a little compassion anyway. This kind of mental delusion is, after all, why we post... in hopes that some will avoid falling prey to this degree of incoherency after being 'programmed' by the late, not so great, LCH (C = Con).

On Ward Ho!

And, yes, yes I'll just do that... :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
KnightVision,

this was just an example of a S.A.D. A Stupid Alanzo Diversion.

The phenomena is now well understood in this sector of the Galaxy.

We have a discussion going along nicely, fairly well behaved, polite and good tempered, even though strong questions and opinions are exchanged. Nevertheless the thread is going along nicely.

Then someone, he knows who he is, accuses others, they know who they are, of saying something everybody knows they didn't! :roflmao: This is a SAD. A Stupid Alanzo Diversion.

There is no need for names, because they know who they are. The phenomena of a SAD are generalisations, ridicule, misrepresentation and the response to any protest about the SAD is a further enforcing of the SAD with more ridicule and misrepresentation.

Words often used in a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) include, but are not limited to "militant", "cesspool", "Nazi" and other derogatory words. These words are aimed at nobody in particular as they know who they are.

The key element of a SAD is to sneeringly accuse un-named people of saying things they didn't and it is a repetitive, iterative process. The apparent desired result is to divert the thread into no longer discussing that which was being discussed, but rather to stir up bad tempered squabbles on the thread which are almost nothing to do with the subject originally being discussed.

One can see a SAD was implemented on this thread and see the ensuing arguments, sometimes between others than the original perpetrator of the SAD.

The motivation for a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) is unknown on this planet at this time, but the remedy is a simple one.

Remedy for a SAD (Stupid Alanzo Diversion) is to simply laugh merrily! :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

This makes me SAD.

But I definitely agree with the remedy.
 
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KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well I know because I’ve been to Emma’s and seen all those ‘bold and artistic’ photos that you sent her. :yes:

And while it may have been rather small, ‘Mr Winkie’ is clearly present, making you indisputably a male of the human variety.

Ax


Well, well... thanks for the background data! Makes for some interesting conclusions...

The "Mr. Winkie" part is a belly laugh!


:D
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
KV! :love8: I only came onto this stupid thread to see if you rode in on your white horse :kangaroo: to save the day :fencing: - and you did!!! :buzzin: I was afraid to come on this thread before. I really missed you, guy! :heartflower:

:welcome: nicki!
:welcome: norma jean!

Hi HG! Thank you for your kind words. :)


Afraid to come on this thread??? :confused2:

HA! Fear none my Dear. Nobody can hurt you. Give not any part of your freedoms to anyone who cannot help you have even more liberty.


:dancer:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Lionheart,

If you don't like what someone posts, then don't reply to them. There are a lot of oddball posts here and thread meanderings. Just about all of us do it sometimes. Better not to get all ad hom about it.
 

Gaijin

Patron
I'll jump in here, hope you don't mind...

1. Total accountability -- Anyone who has broken the law needs to face criminal charges. Make abusive treatment of juniors a crime. End the culture of fear and intimidations.

Even in the military, they don't do things like that anymore. I was in the Canadian military over 30 years ago, shortly after changes had been implemented, outlawing the more egregious abuses. I remember overhearing some Colour Sergeants pining for the old days and the old ways, lamenting that the army had gone soft! Even the military now has to uphold the recruits' human rights.

2. Total transparency -- Use the church structure as intended, with board meetings, open minutes. Public meetings. Financial transparency. Make the real stats available for review. End the dictatorship.

3. A truth commission -- Come clean. Admit wrongdoing. Use honesty and sunlight. Church management has O/Ws on the field.

4. Improve Sea Org conditions -- A truism in the real world is that you treat people as well as you pay them. At the very least pay Sea Org minimum wage. Take care of their medical and dental costs. Limit working hours. I believe you can get just as much done in a 60 hour work week as you can in an 85 hour work week. Let them talk to anyone they want, have children, live off base.

Hear, hear!

[...]

No it won't. But the American Revolution started out as people complaining about the British over beers in a pub. This is the groundwork. Nothing happens unless this happens first.

Everything starts when someone says, "I'm not going to take this anymore!"

You're playing word games. The current management Church of Scientology is aware of, tolerates, enables and hides the abuses. It is endemic to the culture.

It is endemic to the culture, because that is the way Hubbard designed it.

Yes, it is specific people, lots of specific people, all following the lead of RTC. Scientology is run like a paramilitary organization. It has a chain of command. The specific person is COB RTC. No terminal in Scientology can oppose him. He has total power over Int staff. He can not be challenged, or even looks at (facecrime.) The system has been broken by him.

I would argue that Miscavige has not broken the system so much, as he has exploited the environment that Hubbard created, to the maximum.

[...]

There are a lot of well intentioned, good, cool, decent Scientologists. No one here is implying that there isn't. Which is why I believe that if given ALL the data, that there would be a clamor from the field to clean house and install controls so that another dictator can't take control.

I suspect that is the case, which is why management will never allow it to happen. That's why people are forbidden to surf the Net, because if they do, they will learn the truth.

Gaijin
 
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