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Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
@Xenu's Boyfriend....(and for general whatever)

I do get your frustration. It still bugs me, but I remember when I was coming out, and starting to regain my skills at differentiating things and evaluating things from my own view. Believe it or not, some of the stuff that is most annoying and toxic and weird is stuff that really helped me get out. It so echoed the stuff I heard in the cult, that it just stood out as crazy-insane, and just seeing the same tactics used and spouted outside the cult really strengthened my resolve that totally leaving and totally abandoning the entire Scio world was absolutely right. So much of the stuff was per PR policy or just... well, just Scientology. I've waffled, because I want to fight it because it just seems stupid, but then again... most research studies have shown that most people who get into cults are of higher than normal intelligence, so hopefully as they get out, they will also use this as part of exiting like I did.

And as far as comparing to rape, I understand your queasiness, but I've been raped several times, and I'm not offended (although others might be). Honestly, what I experienced in the cult was much worse for me than the worst rape I experienced (and it was stuff that made rape counselors pause)...

I'm glad you are open and asking questions... I'm sure it's quite confusing. I've worked with an amazing cult counselor, and I have done a ton of research into the area. Don't let it get to you. If you want to talk more, pm me.

There is a disconnect in some ways from people that know nothing about cult life, and another disconnect for me for those who came through OK... and I have studied enough to know how different experiences can occur. As someone experiencing PTSD, you must be just blown away... there are just many layers that go along with thought reform.

Keep on posting, but take care of yourself...

Clamicide, thank you for this post, and for the advice and wisdom. You seem brave, and I can see the work you've done on yourself, I admire your courage. Thanks for being there for me and for your contribution.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I am not a Scientologist, but I do stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone fighting for their right to brainwash people. I also defend people's right to be brainwashed. If you can't see the fairness in that, that's your problem. Period.

This is really great. I feel the same way.

What parts of Ron's tech do you get the most wins on?

Personally, I abandoned all that nonsense about BTs and Xenu in order to focus on the common sense reality of the Gorilla Goal Implant technology. Why just yesterday I was at the zoo and a woman at the chimpanzee habitat sneezed. I just looked at her knowingly and smiled to myself, knowing that she was getting retimm'd from the incident 4 quadtrillion years ago. It's amazing to be so far above all the humans....on this planet.

Please share your wins too!
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
This is really great. I feel the same way.

What parts of Ron's tech do you get the most wins on?

Personally, I abandoned all that nonsense about BTs and Xenu in order to focus on the common sense reality of the Gorilla Goal Implant technology. Why just yesterday I was at the zoo and a woman at the chimpanzee habitat sneezed. I just looked at her knowingly and smiled to myself, knowing that she was getting retimm'd from the incident 4 quadtrillion years ago. It's amazing to be so far above all the humans....on this planet.

Please share your wins too!

That's a great win you had there!

The biggest win I've had from Scientology, is the delicious feeling of rightness and certainty I get when I do something really stupid!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOvabFrdQes[/video]

 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
That's a great win you had there!

The biggest win I've had from Scientology, is the delicious feeling of rightness and certainty I get when I do something really stupid!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOvabFrdQes[/video]




Wow! At first I thought you were posting entheta with a jet crashing in a fireball. Per Ron, that would cause an engram. Also, per Ron, one should never put low-toned particles on a com line because, per Ron, it's, ummm...not a good idea.

But then, I cogged that the crash footage is actually, per Ron, very theta, because it is from a really super-high toned movie, TOP GUN. Per Ron, when an OT like Tom Cruise shatters an SP with a fireball death, it is very insouciant and spirit of play.

I really duplicate your space and thank you for mocking up yourself and being here in this sector...at this time...in the MEST universe, on this planet. All this is per Ron.

I am still getting an FN on that fireball footage and I can perceive that you are reminding all of us to get up the Bridge beyond the Wall of Fire, per Ron. Thanks for that! I am double-postulating my Bridge now, which I guess is tone-80. Wooooo! This stuff is amazing! Per Ron, I will not overrun you and end off my post.
 

tetloj

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientologists and Indies and EXes, Oh My!

I just updated my Signature with this: "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."

I understand that some people are not (yet) willing to face (hey Face, no pun intended) that experience, but why should that frustrate you or anyone at all?


These are the sort of reflections that keep me coming back and which help with my own non-Scientology related healing.


Woohoo - my hundredth post!!!!!

*\o/*
 
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tetloj

Silver Meritorious Patron
Therapist: How are you feeling?

XB: Okay, I guess. I mean, I’m glad I posted it. It seems to have created a good conversation/discussion. And that’s always good.

Therapist: What else?

XB: Well, I posted it right as the founder announced she is taking a leave from the site. I feel a bit like a dick, I didn’t mean to criticize her work, I was trying to protect it actually, I mean, protect what I thought it stood for. I feel guilty about that.

Therapist: You feel guilty about everything. I’m sure she’ll be fine. Go on.

XB: One thing I noticed about the group and the people who responded to what I wrote. There’s a real tolerance for the people who aren’t necessarily “on message”, who disagree, or say something that seems to be pro-Scientology, from their own experience. It’s like in a family – they may be the obnoxious uncle telling stupid jokes, or the drunk aunt, or Grandpa who comes out of his room without remembering his pajama bottoms, but everyone is welcome. The disagreements have led to breakthroughs for some, and it even seems to give the site flavor. There’s a surprising lack of judgment. Even towards me.


:bighug:
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Therapist: Maybe it means accepting the parts of you that you may not like all the time. The critical parts, the parts that seem to challenge you the most.

XB: You mean, accepting my inner 'Mark A. Baker'?

Therapist: That’s right. Or even the part of you that seems at times in chaos, but wants to communicate anyway, regardless of whether anything makes sense.

XB: (gulping back tears, whispering) Embrace my inner Commander Birdsong?

Therapist: exactly.

Killer! :lol:

See what you've done? You started a thread that showed the best of ESMB. I;ve really enjoyed reading it.
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Killer! :lol:

See what you've done? You started a thread that showed the best of ESMB. I;ve really enjoyed reading it.

Petey, thank you. And thank you for your earlier post. I really appreciate the loving encouragement and I respect your ideas.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Re: Scientologists and Indies and EXes, Oh My!

<snip>

After reading your post, I just came up with an answer to something I have been wondering about for a long time. The question about why Hubbard and Scientologists are so manically fixated about clearlng words and their exact meanings. Word clearing "tech" that requires that tens of millions of parishioner hours are wasted, digging thru thousands of dictionary definitions unrelated to what they are studying.

<beautiful rant snipped>

Let's assume your spouse says: "I will go shopping now." Just for simplicity, let's also assume there are only 5 definitions for each word. 5^5=3125

Your spouse will probably be back home with a well-filled shopping basket and an empty credit card long before you've reached full conceptual understanding of all these 3125 different meanings of this simple sentence. Note: I didn't even take those words within these definitions into account, which might also need to be cleared and add even more exponential growth to the whole process. After clearing thousands of possible meanings of that simple sentence, would you still be able to recognize what your spouse really told you?

"Brain derail tech", that's all it is.
 
I don't care what people believe about Scientology, but I do care that *some* - not many, people come here to further it's ends. I don't like it, and I don't have to.



It's nice to take a rest sometimes on the long arduous journey to our perfect self.
Do you have a perfect self that you are working to become? (not Smilla, particulary; everybody). I do, and I don't like it, and I hesitate to admit it. Why? I think I have just come to understand that it's very distorted somehow. It is supposedly a good thing to improve one's communication/relationships etc; to "work on aspects of oneself".
But my future "better version of me" is an imposter, some sort of fiction or phantom which has been holding me hostage, but will not be doing so now.....I trust.
Thanks for provoking me Smilla.....aAnd maybe Xenu's friend's reflective post put me into a reflective mood too.
 
I don't care what people believe about Scientology, but I do care that *some* - not many, people come here to further it's ends. I don't like it, and I don't have to.



It's nice to take a rest sometimes on the long arduous journey to our perfect self.
Do you have a perfect self that you are working to become? (not Smilla, particulary; everybody). I do, and I don't like it, and I hesitate to admit it. Why? I think I have just come to understand that it's very distorted somehow. It is supposedly a good thing to improve one's communication/relationships etc; to "work on aspects of oneself".
But my future "better version of me" is an imposter, some sort of fiction or phantom which has been holding me hostage, but will not be doing so now.....I trust.
Thanks for provoking me Smilla.....and maybe Xenu's friend's reflective post put me into a reflective mood too.

I am going to leave this double post as a warning to you all, Do do get reflective and start messing with your mind. You will start doing crazy things....double posting....who knows what will happen next....???
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
It's nice to take a rest sometimes on the long arduous journey to our perfect self.
Do you have a perfect self that you are working to become? (not Smilla, particulary; everybody). I do, and I don't like it, and I hesitate to admit it. Why? I think I have just come to understand that it's very distorted somehow. It is supposedly a good thing to improve one's communication/relationships etc; to "work on aspects of oneself".
But my future "better version of me" is an imposter, some sort of fiction or phantom which has been holding me hostage, but will not be doing so now.....I trust.
Thanks for provoking me Smilla.....and maybe Xenu's friend's reflective post put me into a reflective mood too.

I am going to leave this double post as a warning to you all, Do do get reflective and start messing with your mind. You will start doing crazy things....double posting....who knows what will happen next....???


Lol DB, yes my 'perfect self' is full to the brim with unconditional love, is understanding of all differing and dissenting viewpoints and cares deeply about the feelings of [STRIKE]some of the biggest prats [/STRIKE] all those lovely people that come here just to help us all to understand how scientology really works/how it was meant to really work/how it could really work.

My perfect self is a complete phony and an enormous pain in the arse.


:happydance:
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I never have anything cogent to say it seems. By the time I get to a thread all the smart folks have already said great stuff and I know I can't compete with such brilliance.

I will point out that the count is 3 to 2000(?). What count? Well MAB, Claire and T Parks makes 3. The rest of their cohorts have left the building a while back.

So I think they are to be commended for keeping ESMB a lively and non-boring place :biggrin: as others have noted how utterly boring it is when everyone is in complete agreement.

Of course anyone wishing to extend the list of 3 is certainly encouraged to speak up. There are others, like Lakey, but he stays in his little world on the Apollo thread and doesn't venture out into rough water.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Lol DB, yes my 'perfect self' is full to the brim with unconditional love, is understanding of all differing and dissenting viewpoints and cares deeply about the feelings of [STRIKE]some of the biggest prats [/STRIKE] all those lovely people that come here just to help us all to understand how scientology really works/how it was meant to really work/how it could really work.

My perfect self is a complete phony and an enormous pain in the arse.


:happydance:

Well said ITYIWT! I like this Auditor's Toad quote, blunt and to the point.
No one will fuck you harder than you will stand still for.
 
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Sindy

Crusader
I never have anything cogent to say it seems. By the time I get to a thread all the smart folks have already said great stuff and I know I can't compete with such brilliance.

I will point out that the count is 3 to 2000(?). What count? Well MAB, Claire and T Parks makes 3. The rest of their cohorts have left the building a while back.

So I think they are to be commended for keeping ESMB a lively and non-boring place :biggrin: as others have noted how utterly boring it is when everyone is in complete agreement.

Of course anyone wishing to extend the list of 3 is certainly encouraged to speak up. There are others, like Lakey, but he stays in his little world on the Apollo thread and doesn't venture out into rough water.

I suppose. Would everyone really be in total agreement? Possibly without the continuous "Scientology Sucks" vs "Scientology Doesn't Suck" argumentation (which is also boring) the discussion, after a while, might get more interesting, more intelligent. It might merge into something new, useful, dynamic.

It's hard to tell as there is a "homeostasis" of sorts brought about these two forces.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientologists and Indies and EXes, Oh My!

But wait, there's more! LOL. (Warning: This post may result in a rant....get out now while you still have a chance! LOL)

After reading your post, I just came up with an answer to something I have been wondering about for a long time. The question about why Hubbard and Scientologists are so manically fixated about clearlng words and their exact meanings. Word clearing "tech" that requires that tens of millions of parishioner hours are wasted, digging thru thousands of dictionary definitions unrelated to what they are studying.

The whole subject of Scientology is neurotic about the PRECISE meaning of every word and Hubbard even wrote punitive "High Crime" ethics policies if anyone failed to "clear a word" or allowed another to not "clear a word".

Somehow all the professionals in the world throughout history managed to learn science, math, physics, engineering, medicine, botany and hundreds of other exacting disciplines WITHOUT Hubbard's word clearing "tech".

SO WHY OH WHY ARE SCIENTOLOGISTS SO NEUROTIC ABOUT WORDS?

I finally get it! It's because slamming people's attention into words is a misdirection by the master con man Hubbard. He is hiding the lies of Scientology in plain sight (the best place) by forcing everyone to focus on the exact words and definitions. This does two things:

1) It convinces the Scientologist that they are scientifically studying a scientific subject.

2) It never dawns on the Scientologist that Hubbard's insistence on "understanding the words precisely until full conceptual understanding" is designed to cause them to let their guard down so that the disinformation can hypnotically flow into their minds with alarming volume. After all (the Scientologist faultily reasons), if Dr. Hubbard is insisting that they microscopically examine his technology down to the molecular and atomic levels (words, definitions and word-definitions within word-definitions!) there must be nothing to hide!

3) Finally (the more obvious, but not obvious to Scientologists), by atomizing ever sentence and idea into words, the Scientologist is given abundant opportunity to "clear" every meaning of every idea that Hubbard expresses. Not, mind you, to "clear" the truth or falsity of it--but to "clear" WHY IT IS TRUE; because Hubbard said it. This falls under the Hubbard study tech rule of getting a student to work out how something is and is not true (alternately) until they can "make it their own". In other words, take an obvious untrue statement and get the student to discover how it is actually true. Insane technology, actually, designed to have a student dial up and discover their own personal cognitive dissonance.​

This may all seem far fetched to some here on ESMB and I have no doubt that a Scientologist or "Indie" Scientologist would understand or appreciate the glaring and brilliant stupidity in Hubbard insisting on Scientologists "clearing" the exact meaning of words as a method of getting them to miss the aerial view of what they are being taught.

< I'm good to here>

EXAMPLE: Student spends hours (or days) on word clearing and word chains, "clearing" their disagreement with the Hubbard sentence: "I nearly got run over by a freight train on Venus the other day." The clever supervisors, word clearers or Qual personnel get the student to find the REAL meanings of each word. An afternoon is spent "clearing" the word "nearly", which the student never misunderstood in the first place. The next day when the student is bent and spinny, they are convinced to do a clay demo of the term "freight train" in order to "clear" their aberration on why they cannot join the rest of the winning students who happily sailed past the "freight train on Venus" anecdote. Then the student is forced to look up the relevant of the word Venus and really try to understand where the word came from before using it in endless sentences. The student begins to torture the words and meanings until they finally come up with a plausible explanation for why Ron is saying insane things like that when they discover something "amazing" in the the origin of the word "Venus".

Venus -O.E., from L. Venus (pl. veneres), in ancient Roman mythology, the goddess of beauty and love, especially sensual love, from venus "love, sexual desire, loveliness, beauty, charm," from PIE root *wen- "to strive after, wish, desire, be satisfied" (cf. Skt. vanas- "desire," vanati "desires, loves, wins;" Avestan vanaiti "he wishes, is victorious;" O.E. wynn "joy," wunian "to dwell," wenian "to accustom, train, wean," wyscan "to wish"). Applied by the Romans to Greek Aphrodite, Egyptian Hathor, etc. Meaning "second planet from the sun" is attested from late 13c. (Old English had morgensteorra and æfensteorra).

Aha! Venus....Train. OMG, I thought Ron was talking about a real train!!! (Their misunderstood must be due to using the incorrect definition of the word "Train". LOLOL. This is how Scientology makes people really crazy by the way).

For anyone still reading this, let me get back to the main point. SCIENTOLOGISTS DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE MEANING OF WORDS DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE SLAVISHLY BOUND TO THE HOLY TASK OF RUTHLESSLY CLEARING THEM ON THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.

That is why a Scientologist can say (without blinking): I am an ex Scientologist while they are still a Scientologist using Ron's tech to total freedom.

WORDS HAVE NO MEANING IN SCIENTOLOGY OR TO REAL SCIENTOLOGISTS.

That's why 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, the most advanced Scientologists in the world LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE to the media, courtrooms and their own parishioners.

Scientology is the "science" of removing all meanings from all words and having them mean whatever they need to mean.

There is nothing even slightly wrong in a Scientologist's mind about lying (we don't use "disconnection", "fair game was canceled", we are producing "OTs" ever day!, "there are ten million Scientologists!", "Ron never took a penny from Scientology!", "Ron postulated that his body died so he could do advanced OT research in outer space", etc. etc. etc.) and the reason it is easy to lie is that words have no meaning and cult members are painstakingly indoctrinated into abandoning common sense and, instead, peering thru atomic microscopes at words so that they no longer resemble what they originally were intended to mean.

Here you go, let's read today's newspaper.....and really get down to the words at a microscopic level. Then we'll really get the "essence" and core meaning the way Ron intended. LOL

Brilliant HH, but I think you went overboard after the point I noted (in purple).

I don't think Scilons are indoctrinated to be liars. I think they are taught to be highly expert at ignoring their cognitive dissonance. To say words have no meaning to a Scilon is, IMO, an absurd claim. Words most definitely have meaning to them.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
I never have anything cogent to say it seems. By the time I get to a thread all the smart folks have already said great stuff and I know I can't compete with such brilliance.

I will point out that the count is 3 to 2000(?). What count? Well MAB, Claire and T Parks makes 3. The rest of their cohorts have left the building a while back.

So I think they are to be commended for keeping ESMB a lively and non-boring place :biggrin: as others have noted how utterly boring it is when everyone is in complete agreement.

Of course anyone wishing to extend the list of 3 is certainly encouraged to speak up. There are others, like Lakey, but he stays in his little world on the Apollo thread and doesn't venture out into rough water.

Yup, its a big ol' bag of mixed nuts.... and i likes it :)

My feeling is: not quite. I still wonder what it means to be an ex-Scientologist as defined by this site, and I have yet to get a real answer. When you think about it, maybe there needs to be a new site created for the kind of dialogue this person is talking about in the quote, where these groups (Critics, Scientologists, Ex-Scientologists, Independents) can all come together and argue it out.
Um..........k....... so this site is chopped liver then?

What kind of real answer do you seek? Are not the stories and tribulations of those out of the cult not enough? What 'more' do you need?
You go ahead and start a new site, tell us how it works for ya.

:duh:

Sry, not trying to be harsh or captain obvious, but really...
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Scientologists and Indies and EXes, Oh My!

Brilliant HH, but I think you went overboard after the point I noted (in purple).

I don't think Scilons are indoctrinated to be liars. I think they are taught to be highly expert at ignoring their cognitive dissonance. To say words have no meaning to a Scilon is, IMO, an absurd claim. Words most definitely have meaning to them.

Cool.

But my point was that the Scientology parishioner's obsession with "clearing words" is just a counter-balance to the fact that Hubbard and Scientology execs LIE to the parishioners an equal amount.

In other words, for every hour spent "clearing words" (by the public Scientologist) there is an hour spent by Scientology leaders/execs telling lies.

I was simply trying to point out that all this word clearing is a coverup for the vast campaign of lies being told. :D
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
It's nice to take a rest sometimes on the long arduous journey to our perfect self.
Do you have a perfect self that you are working to become? (not Smilla, particulary; everybody). I do, and I don't like it, and I hesitate to admit it. Why? I think I have just come to understand that it's very distorted somehow. It is supposedly a good thing to improve one's communication/relationships etc; to "work on aspects of oneself".
But my future "better version of me" is an imposter, some sort of fiction or phantom which has been holding me hostage, but will not be doing so now.....I trust.
Thanks for provoking me Smilla.....aAnd maybe Xenu's friend's reflective post put me into a reflective mood too.

I just try not to feel too stupid about my inconsistency, forgetfulness, changing moods, etc. I've noticed myself getting 'better' in some ways and 'worse' in others as time passes. The notion of a perfect self is long gone. Happily, I've noticed that it's possible for an imperfect self in an imperfect world, to find meaning and happiness. That's kind of a miracle, and not such a bad hand to be dealt :)
 
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