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not the first time...

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Focusrite 2019, May 4, 2019.

  1. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Certainly not,

    I think you were only given an R factor about your condition.

    You know, George something can be done about it! Be at cause, educate yourself and handle your bitterness!

    Jeez, such behavior seems to be the norm here:eek:
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  2. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Yes , exactly!
    It seems to me you took great benefit of LRH teachings though ;)

    But was it that clever?

    By creating an out of exchange sit, on your path to freedom, you jeopardized your spiritual wins and may have bared you from the progress we mostly did (intellectually or spiritually).

    LRH gave several lectures about out-exchange; a great knowledge and example to follow!
  3. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    LRH = Buddha:

  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    You are so right lotus, it was remiss of me to ignore the great man's teachings. No wonder that my life now that I have left scientology is devoid of meaning. Oh, how I loved being on the RPF, the smell of the rancid butter we were served in the galley still haunts me to this day, and the thrill and excitement of making sure our stats were straight up and vertical before 2 pm on a Thursday is something I miss terribly, not to mention going for days without bathing while in a low ethics condition - all really character-building stuff.

    You know what, it's all I can do to stop myself getting on a train and going back to Saint Hill manor right this minute, but then who is going to feed my pet crow?
    tesseract likes this.
  5. screamer2

    screamer2 Idiot Bastardson

    Ah Ha! So your frock was withheld?

    I would like to indicate that there may be a 'missed withhold' lurking around here somewhere...
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  6. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!


    I so wish that you, and all people submitted to such soul breaking , could be healed, in their heart, mind and soul, even though it can't be forgotten and often does damage trust bundaries for a lifetime.

    As I ever mentionned, the pampered public who paid for their services, were usually blind to such abuses they witnessed, because $cientology made them think they were super upstat beings and others deserved their abused slaves condition they pulled in...

    [justify]Unfortunately, the same cognitive dissonance, lack of ethics, morality, emotional intelligence, humanity and compassion still often occurs among independants...that's how Scientology raises IQ...egoistic blindness and mice turned into rats...

    $cientology homo nuovos; a dehumanized delluded being living in the small mean prison mind of sociopath

    Hug to you
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  7. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Thank you for your kind thoughts. I don't think I suffered as much physical and psychological damage (only one 'm' in damage lotus) as others here on this board have as a result of my involvement in that poisonous cult, and I was lucky enough to escape into the real world and blag my way into a wog job that I loved and did for the next quarter of a century.

    If Terril and others like him say that they made great gains from running so-called 'implants' on the so-called 'whole track', it just goes to show what a weird and wonderful thing the human mind is.

    Turning mice into rats eh? I love that, lotus!
  8. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Thanks Davey for such pic COS hide for decades as it clearly display the degraded state of the guru and his blattant fail in creating a super powerful upstat being who drops his body at cause....

    Lord Metteya, the reincarnated ,Buddha in the West???

    It appears, Even Lord Bouddha can find himself in such low conditions and confusion..
    Chain smoking, chain locking people in the bildges, chain taking drugs, chain fooling people, chain masturbation

    I wonder who will handle lord Buddha's case???
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  9. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    More proof of Scientology having much in common with Buddhism:


    HelluvaHoax! likes this.
  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    My good lord!

    I don't know if I should get a good laughter or be outrage at the $cientology lucky buddha baby who has such a 3d to look after him...


    With basic parenting denial and him denied à normal childhood as a big thetan who should take responsibility for his degraded dev-t poop let in his diaper for wich he is out-exchanged:oops:

    As a side note the hand and fingers position of the buddhist guy is totally wrong's a funny piece of amateurism misunderstanding...:D Buddhist monks would smile...
  11. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Well, I'll give you my two cents.

    When I first came into Scientology in the early '70s, there were (alleged) OTs I met who had a certain aura about them. It's hard to put in words, but let's just say that, at the very least, they displayed a marked tranquility or something.

    I don't know what it was, but I didn't see it in other people on the scene, nor anywhere else in my life. These people stood out in a crowd.

    This was also during the era of the 'old' OT levels. The upper grade chart was totally made over by church management in 1978 and some of the 'old' OT levels were removed from the lineup. After that was done I never again saw 'OTs' like I saw in the early '70s.

    Bottom line on the subject is that there are no OTs, as described on the old grade charts and in Hubbard's literature. That's not to say that some people haven't gotten gains from doing those levels. It's a fact, but there are no supermen.
  12. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I heard that the advanced levels of Kabbalah Buddhism NLP (similar to Hubbard's upper OT levels) bestows miraculous abilities like finding a parking space.

    While in Scientology I received a confidential briefing that Psychs were trying to sabotage such paranormal powers by inventing valet parking.

    If it's not not confidential, are you able to share any Kabbalically preternatural parking wins?
  13. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    According to David Mayo, who was Hubbard's personal auditor and research assistant in 1978, it was Hubbard who changed the upper grade chart.

    I remember those people who had a certain aura about them back in the day when there were OT 6s and OT 7s, and only one level to go before having Total Freedom and Total Power at (old) OT 8. Being "OT" gave them a mystique, that and their having done lots of TR 0 made them seem special, especially to an eager novice like me.


    I'll repost some things just for the heck of it. They includes a link to an article from 1989, by David Mayo, on 'Clear'.

    Scientology had its period of greatest expansion during the psychedelic era.

    David Mayo

    Excerpt from the 1989 David Mayo article on Clear. (David Mayo is an Ex Scientologist, Class XII and former Senior C/S International, who knew Hubbard on the ship and, for a time, around 1978, lived at Hubbard's residence and worked with Hubbard):

    "It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."

    And from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986.

    "What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be... He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."


    "This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years," from the 1952 book, 'History of Man', found Hubbard telling others the contents of their minds, but it was premature "mind grope," just as the early 1950s e-meter reactions projected on the wall with shadows, while the audience went "ooh!" and "ahh!", was premature "Your e-meter will tell you"-ism, and the 1951 "no rights of any kind" was premature SP Doctrine, and the 1951 "dispose of quietly and without sorrow" was premature Fair Game Law and premature disconnection - disconnection in its most extreme form.​

    It was too early for the implementation of these ideas on the still small, fragile and tentative membership. That would need to wait for a decade, as would Hubbard's implementation of most of the ideas outlined in the "enigmatic" (fraudulent) "Russian Textbook on Psycho-politics."

    In the mean time, Hubbard surrounded himself with those excited about his much advertised vision of a better world, and excited about the full releasing of spiritual ability.

    Hubbard liked to write and he liked to lecture, and he had a knack as a practical psychologist. He drew on the ideas and innovations of the most creative of those around him, and drew on his own knowledge of abreaction (catharsis, "get it [buried thoughts and emotions] off your chest") therapy.

    Movie scene illustrating a cult leader taking control of an other's mind by manipulative and exploitative use of catharsis.

    Utilized also was Korzybski's General Semantics with its "earlier similars," etc,



    and Aleister Crowley's Magic(k).

    See Hubbard's "loose lipped" Philadelphia Doctorate Course of 1952, specifically lecture 18 (and other lectures), for his references to Crowley.

    Hubbard re-worked the (four 'letters' - ingredients - of the) Kabbalistic 'tetragrammaton', and it became his 'Four Conditions of Existence'. Hubbard rewrote Crowley's 'Naples Arrangement' and it became his 'The Factors'. He borrowed Crowley's idea of a multiplicity of infinite minds and further excited Scientologists with that notion. None of these were original with Crowley, who was as much a relay point as was Hubbard. Yet, unlike Crowley, Hubbard would eventually incorporate the methods of psychological warfare into his system, and used those methods, not only on his perceived enemies, but on his own followers.

    And when he finally - in the mid 1960s - unleashed, mostly covertly, the psychological warfare methods of the "Russian Textbook" on Scientologists, he also returned to fully utilizing those ideas he had briefly tested more than a decade earlier. He gave them a past, he gave them a future, he told them the contents of their own minds, and made it plain that only HE knew, and others were going to be told.

    Scientologist were overjoyed as they knew that "Total Freedom" and "Total Power" awaited them.

    Hubbard had written confidentially of the importance of "using enemy tactics," and would even use those "enemy tactics" on his own loyal followers. He had written of psychiatrists in August 1963:

    "Psychiatry is authoritarian and tells the person what's wrong with him, often introducing a new lie. Scientology finds out what's wrong with the person from the person."​

    Soon to follow would be the secret and very serious, and very dangerous, and vital to your survival "Clearing Course," "OT 2" and "OT 3," in which Hubbard would do what he said the psychiatrists did.

    (The science fiction aspect of these materials has drawn the most attention but, perhaps, more important was the switch from (seemingly) harmless pop psycho-therapy to covert hypnosis.)

    Hubbard had done this in 1952, but now it was formalized and institutionalized, and a senior part of the doctrine of Scientology doctrine.

    Concise look at the multi-layered Chinese finger puzzle of Scientology" Ex Scientologist - The Scientological Onion with a link to what has been called the "blueprint for Scientology."


    Music by the Incredible String Band before they became Scientologists. They have since become ex Scientologists.
    Dulloldfart likes this.
  14. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Thank you, Veda. That's one helluva post. I was aware of much of what you outlined, but the stuff on Russian psycho-politics is new to me.

    Learning the truth about the Old Man has been sobering, to say the least. :eek:
    JustSheila likes this.
  15. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    That look/aura they had was probably due to huge relief (initially) at finally attesting and being through the level, another part of it may have been down to ego and enjoying basking in the attention they were suddenly receiving from the rest of us.

    An enormous amount of cognitive dissonance and grim determination is required to make it through the OT levels intact and when someone finally staggers out the other side and attests there is no doubt in my mind that there is a feeling of achievement but if you look at high achievers in any field there will be some that have a special glow or shine about them. Some people polish that up daily and use it to further advance themselves (it's usually called charisma). Successful sales people know all about it.

    If you discreetly watch a scientologist before and after doing OT levels you will usually notice very little (if any) difference after a while, because there isn't any. Once the initial 'win' wears off they are back to square one but with less money. When they appear at cult events or whatever they polish up the charade and perform, it's part of the agreement!

  16. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    "If you discreetly watch a scientologist before and after doing OT levels you will usually notice very little (if any) difference after a while, because there isn't any. Once the initial 'win' wears off they are back to square one but with less money. When they appear at cult events or whatever they polish up the charade and perform, it's part of the agreement!"

    Totally true Trouble. I'm grade 0, wife OT8 and all 3 L's. It's now been something like 5 years or so since totally out. She's no different then any wog. And she knows it too.

    And yep, we was with less money is the bottom line.
  17. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    After finding out what the OT levels consist of, I realized they're most likely a mix of Hubbard's own case, his drug fevered imagination, and a dash of '30s era space opera.

    There's no way that ridiculous poppycock is true. :coffee:

    Thank God I failed to get onto the OT levels when I tried. I can't imagine spending ten to twenty years driving myself slowly nuts with that stuff. :drowning:
  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Well, there are three different things here, somewhat independent of each other: (1) Whatever "things" exist in one's immediate mental/physical space, mind, body, subtle energy connections etc; (2) Practical techniques that address these things, well or badly; (3) Theories/hypotheses connected with (1) and (2).

    I believe regarding "OT Levels" Hubbard had some inkling of bits of (1); certainly provided (2), whether he personally developed techniques or not; (3) Published ridiculous stories regarding (3).

    I was a Solo-OT3 sup at AOSHUK and ITO for several years, so have a good familiarity with OT2 and OT3.

    OT2 deals mostly in dichotomies, pairs of opposite-ish items. That charged items can have charged dichotomies can be trivially demonstrated to oneself with no case prerequisites at no cost. Use my PaulsRobot Dipoles module ( for the most fun, or maybe NotTooShabbyPower (, to see this.

    The theory of OT2 (point 3) is ridiculous. That some charged pairs can be called up, triggered and discharged (point 1) is easily demonstrable, although how valuable it is to do this and how many of Hubbard's thousands are valid is not at all obvious. Saying the items out loud until they no longer read (point 2), again it is not obvious how beneficial/harmful this is.

    The theory of OT3 (point 3) is ridiculous. Point 1: "Things" in one's immediate space, whatever they are, that appear to be alive and have an existence independent of one's own do seem to exist, although this is arguable. The techniques of OT3, and NOTs, all fall under Point 2. I'm not going to get into any of this here, beyond merely pointing out this differentiation.

    JustSheila likes this.
  19. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Thank you, Veda. That's one helluva post. I was aware of much of what you ou
    With both OT 2 and OT 3, Hubbard is TELLING people, who are "in session," and thus in a light hypnotic state, the details (and it's very detailed) of very important (to their surviving or succumbing) events, that they have no ability to examine independently, thus requiring Hubbard to TELL them.

    Hubbard was making sure he owned the inside of his follower's heads, and told them all sorts of things to distract them from what he was really doing.

    It's not subtle. In 1963, Hubbard described psychiatry as, "authoritarian and tells the person what's wrong with him... while Scientology finds out what is wrong... from the person..."

    As Volney Mathison noted in 1954, Hubbard used the old con man technique of warning about bad things done by bad people and, then, turning around and doing those same things to his victims. Victims who regard it as unthinkable that their great ally, and friend, would ever betray them.

    One could almost catalog every manipulative technique used by Hubbard by first finding him mentioning it in a rambling lecture where he warns Scientologists about it.
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  20. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    "With both OT 2 and OT 3, Hubbard is TELLING people, who are "in session," and thus in a light hypnotic state, the details (and it's very detailed) of very important (to their surviving or succumbing) events, that they have no ability to examine independently, thus requiring Hubbard to TELL them."

    I dunno know Veda, but I'd probably state they were in a rhetoric state as opposed to a hypnotic state.

    "Cherwitz and Hikins:

    Rhetoric is the art of describing reality through language. Under this definition, the study of rhetoric becomes an effort to understand how humans, in various capacities and in a variety of situations, describe reality through language. To act rhetorically is to use language in asserting or seeming to assert claims about reality. At the heart of this definition is the assumption that what renders discourse potentially persuasive is that a rhetor (e.g. a speaker or writer) implicitly or explicitly sets forth claims that either differ from or cohere with views of reality held by audiences (e.g. a specific scholarly community, a reader of fiction, or an assembly of persons attending a political rally). Communication and Knowledge: An Investigation in Rhetorical Epistemology. 62."

    I think that's what hubbard did to get us to get involved and believe. He altered our reality, or agreement.

    just my humble opinion.
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