not the first time...

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
"With both OT 2 and OT 3, Hubbard is TELLING people, who are "in session," and thus in a light hypnotic state, the details (and it's very detailed) of very important (to their surviving or succumbing) events, that they have no ability to examine independently, thus requiring Hubbard to TELL them."

I dunno know Veda, but I'd probably state they were in a rhetoric state as opposed to a hypnotic state.

https://rhetoric.sdsu.edu/resources/what_is_rhetoric.htm

"Cherwitz and Hikins:

Rhetoric is the art of describing reality through language. Under this definition, the study of rhetoric becomes an effort to understand how humans, in various capacities and in a variety of situations, describe reality through language. To act rhetorically is to use language in asserting or seeming to assert claims about reality. At the heart of this definition is the assumption that what renders discourse potentially persuasive is that a rhetor (e.g. a speaker or writer) implicitly or explicitly sets forth claims that either differ from or cohere with views of reality held by audiences (e.g. a specific scholarly community, a reader of fiction, or an assembly of persons attending a political rally). Communication and Knowledge: An Investigation in Rhetorical Epistemology. 62."

I think that's what hubbard did to get us to get involved and believe. He altered our reality, or agreement.

just my humble opinion.
I agree. The term "in session" simply means "interested in own case and willing to talk to the auditor". So it's like when you go to a job interview you need to be interested in getting the job and willing to talk to the interviewer. That's just common sense.

So to equate being "in session" with being in "a light hypnotic state" is a stretch of the imagination and especially so when one is talking about solo auditors who are running their own session complete with operating the e-meter and writing worksheets.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Chris Shelton talks briefly about the state of Clear (4:43 minutes)

Brilliant! I've never heard or read anything here that so precisely mirrors my feelings about the state of clear and scientology auditing in general.

Cheers Chris.

Stratty. Clear 244*
 
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Veda

Sponsor
I agree. The term "in session" simply means "interested in own case and willing to talk to the auditor". So it's like when you go to a job interview you need to be interested in getting the job and willing to talk to the interviewer. That's just common sense.

So to equate being "in session" with being in "a light hypnotic state" is a stretch of the imagination and especially so when one is talking about solo auditors who are running their own session complete with operating the e-meter and writing worksheets.
I already know the Hubbard definition that you're providing.

A light hypnotic state is essentially focused concentration. It's a light trance.

Not interested in arguing about the definition of the words "hypnosis" or "trance."

That discussion has already occurred elsewhere. In and of themselves, these things are not necessarily bad.

Scientology, however, exists in a manipulative environment with often manipulative techniques. It's usually unwise to allow oneself to be "in session," or any similar state, while IN Scientology.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Addendum post.

Quiz question: "What is the 'case' of someone doing OT 2 or OT 3?"

Here's a sampling of a typical implant description from OT 2, plus a smattering of introductory material by Hubbard:

"Never proceed past a non-reading item. To do so can be very deadly...
....
Many persons experience unreality at the start of [implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads."
....
"They are implant incidents...
Trillion, 20,095.
Hot Cold.
This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...
Dance Mob.
Trillions, 18,992.
This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole."
And a little more:
"230 trillions.
This seeks to install...
Implanter X... Target X," etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.​
_____________​
A typical reaction to running these materials is amazement at having contacted previously inaccessible incidents from ages ago, and delight at having expected (and hoped for) e-meter responses.​
Those without the expected e-meter responses usually respond with dread and upset at their failure.​
Their "cases" must be reviewed, and actions taken to "set" them "up" them for the "level."​
It's an impressive P.T. Barnumesque ride.​
840088d862b3cad799c40bb5abdf6578.jpg


Is it a coincidence that the brainwashing valve in Scientology was turned to full ON (1965), around the same time that Hubbard started releasing these levels?
 

Gib

Crusader
Addendum post.

Quiz question: "What is the 'case' of someone doing OT 2 or OT 3?"

Here's a sampling of a typical implant description from OT 2, plus a smattering of introductory material by Hubbard:

"Never proceed past a non-reading item. To do so can be very deadly...
....
Many persons experience unreality at the start of [implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads."
....
"They are implant incidents...
Trillion, 20,095.
Hot Cold.
This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...
Dance Mob.
Trillions, 18,992.
This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole."
And a little more:
"230 trillions.
This seeks to install...
Implanter X... Target X," etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.​
_____________​
A typical reaction to running these materials is amazement at having contacted previously inaccessible incidents from ages ago, and delight at having expected (and hoped for) e-meter responses.​
Those without the expected e-meter responses usually respond with dread and upset at their failure.​
Their "cases" must be reviewed, and actions taken to "set" them "up" them for the "level."​
It's an impressive P.T. Barnumesque ride.​
840088d862b3cad799c40bb5abdf6578.jpg


Is it a coincidence that the brainwashing valve in Scientology was turned to full ON (1965), around the same time that Hubbard started releasing these levels?
I've read the Brainwashing manual, it's just another fear tactic used by hubbard:

https://www.midlandisd.net/cms/lib01/TX01000898/Centricity/Domain/129/MILLER RHETORICAL.pdf

Hubbard wrote a book called "fear".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_(Hubbard_novella)
 

Veda

Sponsor
I've read the Brainwashing manual, it's just another fear tactic used by hubbard:

https://www.midlandisd.net/cms/lib01/TX01000898/Centricity/Domain/129/MILLER RHETORICAL.pdf

Hubbard wrote a book called "fear".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_(Hubbard_novella)
When it was first written, it was used as propaganda.

By the mid 1960s, it had been recognized by the Australian Anderson Commission as a kind of blueprint for the operation of Scientology.

However, "brainwashing" is used here, mostly, in a general sense.

tumblr_ld50v7q6tn1qabw68o1_400.gif



Although it is true that, around that time (mid/late 1960s), Hubbard had put into application a big additional chunk of the ideas and methods from his 1955 "Russian" manual.

sea_org.jpg
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Although it is true that, around that time (mid/late 1960s), Hubbard had put into application a big additional chunk of the ideas and methods from his 1955 "Russian" manual.

sea_org.jpg
Kids playing the fake navy with fake costumes, commanding adults in a pseudo planetary operation to salvage earht in danger from intergallaxic evil Commander Xenu. In the back, the enormous photograph of the megalomaniac guru playing the kid naval army commander; Commander Hubbard, who had the kids to sign a billion years contract of slave working, in a lunatic paranoid psycho drama....

LRH the humanitarian!

Thank God, many of those kids grew up , felt there was something wrong and left this cult to build a normal life.​
 
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The_Fixer

Class Clown
I wonder if this "aura" thing of OTs and other higher up scios was a thing of " I know what you don't know and now I'm better than you " manifesting itself.

Strutting around like some doggy doo on steroids.

People who have a puffed up sense of self can often give off an air that makes people look up to them.

Perhaps?
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I wonder if this "aura" thing of OTs and other higher up scios was a thing of " I know what you don't know and now I'm better than you " manifesting itself.

Strutting around like some doggy doo on steroids.

People who have a puffed up sense of self can often give off an air that makes people look up to them.

Perhaps?
Pretty much the situation though!

My personnal observations at the time were that change of behavior could often be seen on OT3

  1. Either disappeared for good
  2. Or appeared to be shoched ( no VGI's) Trubs described it very Well.
  3. Totally VGI's and behave as the enlightened and chosen ..like if they had super esoteric knowledge and powers.
Pouah :D
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
by Hubbard:


Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...
Dance Mob.
Trillions, 18,992.
This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole."
Ouffffffffffffff
Mind boggling how Dr Hub's mind, as a true scientist, was sharp like a laser ..to the 7\8 of a second for pseudo incidents of trillions years ago....

Wouahhhhhhhhhh:eek:

I recall reading the bulletins le those levels...
It was saturday the 8 of novembre 1982 at exactly 4:02:25s pm. I was in Germany, and had dinner with a very good friend of my family Albert Einstein. We ate delicious chaussage. I showed the bulletins to Al , describing the events and time..to get his advice on it.

Today I will reveal his reaction...
Al was....
JEALOUS or Dr Hubs:oops:
Why Will you ask me ????

Because, despite the genious and IQ of Al, he never approached the razord Sharp brain of Dr Hubs :oops:

This is true
ML
Lotus
 
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Me and My Self

Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn
Quiz question: "What is the 'case' of someone doing OT 2 or OT 3?" (snip)

A typical reaction to running these materials is amazement at having contacted previously inaccessible incidents from ages ago, and delight at having expected (and hoped for) e-meter responses.​
Those without the expected e-meter responses usually respond with dread and upset at their failure.​
Their "cases" must be reviewed, and actions taken to "set" them "up" them for the "level."​
It's an impressive P.T. Barnumesque ride.
840088d862b3cad799c40bb5abdf6578.jpg


Is it a coincidence that the brainwashing valve in Scientology was turned to full ON (1965), around the same time that Hubbard started releasing these levels?

Some Ramblings ...
Here's an excerpt from this page: http://www.freezoneearth.org/Prometheus04/otTwo/index.htm
and some realizations particularly after having skimmed over the OT II platens.

"The wordings contained therein are not Mr. Hubbard's nor any copyright holders. It is simply an account of positive suggestions that, again according to Mr. Hubbard, were induced into every human Being's subconscious mind here on earth, one person at the time. The wordings of the suggestions were recovered through examinations and research of the minds of average people."

I wonder how big a sample of "average people" has to be to draw conclusions like his and place them as "scientific evidence". Of course, he was just lying, as in several of his works he just negates most of the "spacey discoveries".

Those *words in platens") are a double-edged sword ... (figuratively as well as practically)
I realized "here's how he might have just been implanting everybody with his own case!!!"
(EDITED: oops ... hadn't read this post of yours ... sorry for preaching to the choir ... :sorrow: )

Then everyone would have HIS "God particle" (see below) = total absorption/nullification through worshipping (self-fulfilling prophecy - induced imagery in several places as in "A History of Man" for example) (BTW just noted that the title says "A" (one of so many others) and not "THE"...)

He "saves his ass" with his assertion that "absolutes are unobtainable" and all the other caveat emptor scattered inside his works. "Don't blame me for anything as I did warn you" and those mentioned by Bill Hall (plus his own comments) here:
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-L-Ron-Hubbard-said-total-freedom-is-a-perfect-trap

God's Particle
Hubbard's "GOD-identity theft" ... ("skimming over" parallel)
The very first commandment:
"You shall have no gods but ME" (= KSW)
2nd C
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
(closing the door to any non-Scn tech things)
3rd C
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. (no squirrel tech or MUs allowed)

4th to 10th he just wouldn't bother to apply to himself as he perceived himself indeed as being God Almighty.
Folie des grandeurs = Megalomaniac = AntiChrist?
Or ... just another "GOD IN DISGUISE" as we all are?

OUROBOROS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros#Jungian_psychology
"In the age-old image of the Ouroboros lies the thought of devouring oneself and turning oneself into a circulatory process, for it was clear to the more astute alchemists that the prima materia of the art was man himself. The Ouroboros is a dramatic symbol for the integration and assimilation of the opposite, i.e. of the shadow. This 'feed-back' process is at the same time a symbol of immortality, since it is said of the Ouroboros that he slays himself and brings himself to life, fertilizes himself and gives birth to himself."

PHOENIX RISING FROM HIS OWN ASHES

Not for the faint of heart - especially without due AND EXPLICIT notice.

Some fortunately get out either by realization of the SELF or just healthy survival instincts of their EGO/GE.
Some of those are still around licking our wounds.
Some others simply get stuck and get burned to oblivion - or are in line to be so.
Not worthy the risk, IMO.
:bignono:
LIFE is already a great challenge in itself, and a bigger game to play, as it includes LOVE, which LRH seems to leave out of the picture.
:heartflower::rose::handinhand::budhug:
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Life is certainly a great challenge!

But who said it was a game ????
Only Dr Hubbard said so...it appeared later that life was indeed a game for Dr Hubbard in which he was the slave master ( supreme master of your master card) and we were to be his slave playing his little sociopathic game...so he is the only winner...and a bunch of people still believe playing LRH game is their life purpose.

(Actually it appears he has been the looser and realized it too late..with tons of sterile regrets)

Isn't a game something we may or may not play..for fun????
And isn't Life is a divine mystical great plan in which we was gifted to be a part of, for a brief time????
 
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Me and My Self

Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn
But who said it was a game ????
Only Dr Hubbard said so...
(snip)
Isn't a game something we may or may not play..for fun????
And isn't Life is a divine mystical great plan in which we was gifted to be a part of, for a brief time????
Ooohhh!
Thank you indeed for pointing out this.
Aside to be of help in cleaning my Scn wording and get it back to normal significances, which I just barely started working on (because I realized that, willingly or not, his diverted use of words are a way to maintain our connection to all his ideas and ideals, erasing a lot of what we are, of our previous experience).
Such a subtle brainwashing it didn't even occur to me I could have been undergoing in such a little time spent in Scn.
That would explain many awkward points of view and physical recoveries that have surfaced in my present re-alignment.

This makes for a profound reflection at all levels.
Merci! :heartflower:
 
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