Obamacare and Health Insurance for Sea Org & Staff (USA)

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I hear they're coming out with a new "tin plan" expressly developed with Scientology orgs in mind. It covers:

(1) Touch assists and other assists,

(2) Abortions, and

(3) Since no one gets sick if they're not PTS, 24/7 access to an Ethics Officer.

Helena :biggrin:
 

Lone Star

Crusader
That was this year. The rules change tomorrow. http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-employer-mandate

Sea Org members are not exempt from Obamacare.

"If you belong to any of the groups listed below you are exempt from ObamaCare’s mandate to “obtain minimum essential coverage” (i.e. buy insurance)....

Religious Conscience- People can qualify for religious exemptions. The Social Security Administration administers the process for recognizing these sects according to the criteria in the law.

Health Care Sharing Ministry- If you are a member of a recognized health care sharing ministry you qualify for an exemption.

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-mandate-exemption-penalty

Smurf...Smurf...Smurf....You of all people should know how this works.

The CoS will not provide health insurance for the S.O. And it will get away with it. I don't care what the official healtcare.gov or social security websites say or don't say.

The CoS has a special, un-written (with a wink and a nod) all laws like this don't concern us contract with the Federal Government. I think it dates back to....oh....what year was that....hmmmmm....oh yeah!....1993.

Just see if DM provides insurance to the S.O. I'm betting he will not. I'm also betting that he won't suffer any penalty.

If he were I'm sure we would've heard by now of special regging events across the country raising money for Sea Org Obamacare coverage. You know DM won't pay for it without regging it up front from the clubbed seals.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Smurf...Smurf...Smurf....You of all people should know how this works.

The CoS will not provide health insurance for the S.O. And it will get away with it. I don't care what the official healtcare.gov or social security websites say or don't say.

I said they are not exempt; I didn't say they would sign up for it. The IRS is in such disarray right now, I suspect that Scientology Inc. will get away with it. :)
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hey if I understood the charts correctly can't DM just have all staff and SO sign a document claiming to reject health care for religious reasons and save money that way ?

They would be screwed but he can just say they pulled it when they are sick or their kids .
Get cancer , what are your crimes you CICS who SCOHB ! True compassion DM style !:coolwink:


He would be screwed if has to cover all the BTs !!! Not even the Duggan clan has the cash for that !
He could just give every SO member an ethics book and assists pack and say no case on post, you have the technology , now use it !:duh:
 

failboat

Patron with Honors
Hey if I understood the charts correctly can't DM just have all staff and SO sign a document claiming to reject health care for religious reasons and save money that way ?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...mp-Staff-(USA)&p=851704&viewfull=1#post851704

The religious exemption is addressed in this post.

The gist is that only groups already exempt from paying social security payroll taxes will be able to claim religious exemption from the health insurance mandate. So far, the only groups granted such exemption have been exclusively Christian, like Mennonites, Hutterites, and Amish. You can download an Excel file containing a list of all exempted sects at that linked post. Scientologists are not on that list.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I just hope that American SO members and org staff and financially shafted public do get the chance to be treated for illness and injuries without having to sell their grandmothers. Even they deserve to be treated like human beings.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I just hope that American SO members and org staff and financially shafted public do get the chance to be treated for illness and injuries without having to sell their grandmothers. Even they deserve to be treated like human beings.

Obamacare is based on income which means SO would qualify for Medi-Cal (Medicaid) if they are U.S.citizens.. they earn less than $14,000 a year. However, the application process is tedious & takes some effort. I suspect the cult would not allow it's members the time off to sign up for it.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Obamacare is based on income which means SO would qualify for Medi-Cal (Medicaid) if they are U.S.citizens.. they earn less than $14,000 a year. However, the application process is tedious & takes some effort. I suspect the cult would not allow it's members the time off to sign up for it.

If the church witholds the means of medical help to their staff I hope the COB has a good trial, and gets what he's due, including dropping the soap in the shower.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...mp-Staff-(USA)&p=851704&viewfull=1#post851704

The religious exemption is addressed in this post.

The gist is that only groups already exempt from paying social security payroll taxes will be able to claim religious exemption from the health insurance mandate. So far, the only groups granted such exemption have been exclusively Christian, like Mennonites, Hutterites, and Amish. You can download an Excel file containing a list of all exempted sects at that linked post. Scientologists are not on that list.


The CoS is on the special list. The one that isn't written. :coolwink:

I'm tellin' ya, no matter how much you don't like it, the cult won't spend one red cent on healthcare for the SO members. And will suffer no repercussions. :no:
 

failboat

Patron with Honors
I'm tellin' ya, no matter how much you don't like it, the cult won't spend one red cent on healthcare for the SO members. And will suffer no repercussions. :no:

Your smug pessimism on this matter is unproductive.

Exposing criminality and corruption on the part of CoS will only increase the odds of it being discovered and rectified. Both the individual mandate and the employer mandate prescribe fines or tax penalties to those who fail to comply. At the very least, I would think you would approve of the idea of exposing criminality and corruption of the CoS. I don't know why you're so ready to shoot down my efforts here, but your constant nay-saying sure makes it seem like you'd rather see Sea Org and Staff go on suffering without health care.

If you continue posting unsourced pessimistic assertions with the smug intent to frustrate me, then I am going to put you on ignore.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
If you research further you will probably find that no one in those groups has a SS#. I'm serious about that. You will probably have to ask members of those groups directly.


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...mp-Staff-(USA)&p=851704&viewfull=1#post851704

The religious exemption is addressed in this post.

The gist is that only groups already exempt from paying social security payroll taxes will be able to claim religious exemption from the health insurance mandate. So far, the only groups granted such exemption have been exclusively Christian, like Mennonites, Hutterites, and Amish. You can download an Excel file containing a list of all exempted sects at that linked post. Scientologists are not on that list.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
The CoS is on the special list. The one that isn't written. :coolwink:

I'm tellin' ya, no matter how much you don't like it, the cult won't spend one red cent on healthcare for the SO members. And will suffer no repercussions. :no:
Your smug pessimism on this matter is unproductive.

Exposing criminality and corruption on the part of CoS will only increase the odds of it being discovered and rectified. Both the individual mandate and the employer mandate prescribe fines or tax penalties to those who fail to comply. At the very least, I would think you would approve of the idea of exposing criminality and corruption of the CoS. I don't know why you're so ready to shoot down my efforts here, but your constant nay-saying sure makes it seem like you'd rather see Sea Org and Staff go on suffering without health care.

If you continue posting unsourced pessimistic assertions with the smug intent to frustrate me, then I am going to put you on ignore.
I agree with LS2; no matter how reprehensible it will be for the C of S to wriggle out of their responsibilities (again!) I'm sure they'll find some way to do it -- or at the very least, try damn hard! Like I said, they'll probably tie the matter up in court for years.

I too don't want to see the staff go without health care. There are many things I don't want to see happen. But that doesn't mean they WON'T happen. (Like I like to say, things can get a whole lot worse then YOU can imagine.)

After considering all the facts, my conclusion is this: we will ony know what will happen when it happens. We'll just have to wait and see what DM will do and if he gets away with it.

Helena
 

TrevAnon

Big List researcher
I agree with LS2; no matter how reprehensible it will be for the C of S to wriggle out of their responsibilities (again!) I'm sure they'll find some way to do it -- or at the very least, try damn hard! Like I said, they'll probably tie the matter up in court for years.
From what I get Failboat is trying to get as many facts - facts, that is - as possible about CO$ having to implement Obamacare yes or no. As I see it, this will help in getting the cult down (though it may not help right here, right now).

Should CO$ decide to fight it in court then we'll all have a field day because it would be another foot bullet: "Look at them, they're not even ready to take care of their own Sea Org / staff / whatever.".

So I hope Failboat gets more good feedback.

On the subject itself I don't really an opinion. I am Dutch and don't know very much about Obamacare. I do know US citizens (and others) can have very strong opinions about it. I tend to stay out of discussions about it.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Your smug pessimism on this matter is unproductive.

Exposing criminality and corruption on the part of CoS will only increase the odds of it being discovered and rectified. Both the individual mandate and the employer mandate prescribe fines or tax penalties to those who fail to comply. At the very least, I would think you would approve of the idea of exposing criminality and corruption of the CoS. I don't know why you're so ready to shoot down my efforts here, but your constant nay-saying sure makes it seem like you'd rather see Sea Org and Staff go on suffering without health care.

If you continue posting unsourced pessimistic assertions with the smug intent to frustrate me, then I am going to put you on ignore.

LOL! So you are smugly assuming that I'm smugly intending the frustrate you? Oh that is funny. As if I care enough to want to frustrate you.

I actually didn't intend to make more than one post on this thread. Yes, I've made my posts in a somewhat joking manner, as I usually do. But I am very serious as well. I firmly believe what I have posted. You want dox? Whatever. No one, and I mean no one on ESMB will have dox for you. Why? Because there aren't any to give. No one on ESMB is in a position to give you a definitive answer. All this thread can be is a bunch of speculation.

I know you mean well, but what you are trying to find out with this thread is for the time being an exercise in futility. It is just simply too early to tell how this employer mandate will be dealt with by DM, or impact the CoS.

Ultimately it's going to take someone on the inside of the CoS, specifically the SO, leaking it. You'll probably read about it on Rinder's blog since he seems to be the most consistent source for leaked information these days.

I guess that my main point is this.....The cult that made the IRS cry "uncle" and annually gets away with human trafficking and many other human rights violations is going to be taken down by Obamacare?

I don't think so. Doubt it very much.

Anyway.....rest easy....I've said all I can say on this subject.
 
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Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
I just hope that American SO members and org staff and financially shafted public do get the chance to be treated for illness and injuries without having to sell their grandmothers. Even they deserve to be treated like human beings.

My somewhat cynical guess is that the top dogs in the SO will have full health insurance and coverage (and DM's will probably be gold standard coverage). It will be the lower ranks in Scn orgs, and probably in the SO too, who will have to go without.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
My somewhat cynical guess is that the top dogs in the SO will have full health insurance and coverage (and DM's will probably be gold standard coverage). It will be the lower ranks in Scn orgs, and probably in the SO too, who will have to go without.

Sounds like the Poundland model. The execs there have private medical insurance and the workers are mostly cheap Polish workers on minimum wage and the NHS. With the SO they might be allowed to visit A and E, anyone needing time off for medical reasons would have to do lower conditions.
 

failboat

Patron with Honors
LOL! So you are smugly assuming that I'm smugly intending the frustrate you? Oh that is funny. As if I care enough to want to frustrate you.
Frustrate - verb - prevent (a plan or attempted action) from progressing, succeeding, or being fulfilled; to make ineffectual : bring to nothing; to make invalid or of no effect

I will let those reading this thread decide on their own whether your posts frustrate my efforts, or not.

I actually didn't intend to make more than one post on this thread. Yes, I've made my posts in a somewhat joking manner, as I usually do. But I am very serious as well. I firmly believe what I have posted. You want dox? Whatever. No one, and I mean no one on ESMB will have dox for you. Why? Because there aren't any to give. No one on ESMB is in a position to give you a definitive answer. All this thread can be is a bunch of speculation.
This is frustrating to me, because it's also an untrue assertion on your part. There are a lot of facts linked and sourced in this thread. Your broad generalization about this thread is both insulting and inaccurate.

I know you mean well, but what you are trying to find out with this thread is for the time being an exercise in futility. It is just simply too early to tell how this employer mandate will be dealt with by DM, or impact the CoS.
That's all you've got? It's too early? As of today, it is NO LONGER TOO EARLY. Both mandates are in effect, so I think now is the PERFECT time to start making noise about this. The individual mandate has been in effect for a whole year - that's potentially a whole year of Medicare we are talking about, for Sea Org.

Ultimately it's going to take someone on the inside of the CoS, specifically the SO, leaking it. You'll probably read about it on Rinder's blog since he seems to be the most consistent source for leaked information these days.

I've made threads about this subject on WWP, OCMB, and ESMB. Neither Rinder nor Ortega has blogged about this subject, AFAIK. Part of my intent with these threads is to get Scientologists in Sea Org and Staff informed about this subject, so that they can feel backed by federal law when they demand health care coverage from their employers. Part of my intent is to get people informed in general. Part of my intent is to ENCOURAGE the very leaks you speak of. Whether that information is leaked to me by PM or to Ortega or Rinder or Freezoners, I don't care. I just want people to be hungry for the information, and I am trying to whet their appetites.

I mean more than well. I mean to get the CoS to pay for Obamacare, one way or another. They can be made to pay, whether it is in bad PR, or fines, or compliance.

I guess that my main point is this.....The cult that made the IRS cry "uncle" and annually gets away with human trafficking and many other human rights violations is going to be taken down by Obamacare?

I don't think so. Doubt it very much.

Anyway.....rest easy....I've said all I can say on this subject.

You're too meek to ask your government to do its job and enforce its laws? Aww, did Scientology's War is Over propaganda make you lose faith in your government? Is the big bad CoS going to Stand Tall while you cheer them on? If you and everyone else on ESMB retreats with your tails between your legs from the idea of enforcing compliance with federal laws on CoS wherever and whenever we can, then I don't know whose authority it is that you expect to be able to bring CoS to heel or ultimately dissolve them.

Maybe you're waiting for a decree from the gods?

There isn't a higher authority to appeal to in the US than federal law.

The other illegal activities you mention have been allowed to skate for reasons that all generally come back to a couple of ideas - (1) the people want to be there and (2) they're a religion. The people want to be there, which is why human trafficking came to nothing, and they're a religion, which allows them to get away with treating their workers like crap while paying them a pittance.

Those reasons DON'T APPLY to Obamacare. The OP notes that churches must comply, and I've pointed out that the religious exemption from the individual mandate is not available to individual Scientologists.

I would like Sea Org and Staff to have health insurance. Can we agree on this point? Can I see you say it, in a post in this thread? Thanks, I was hoping that my last post would finally get you to take a stand on this point at least, but I guess I have to ask more directly.
 
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Lone Star

Crusader
Failboat....whatever....you take yourself waaaaaaaaayyyyy too seriously.

You take me too seriously as well.

You're not going to force Dwarfenfuhrer into compliance with Obamacare by posting on Message Boards. Or somehow get the CoS indicted and convicted by starting threads and maybe working people up into a frenzy and doing something about it. LOL.. I laugh because I think you believe you can.

Should we write our Congressmen and Senators about DM not providing health insurance to the SO cult staffers? Should we tip off the FBI? IRS?

LOL.... Oh yeah, that would work.

Anyway....:carryon:
 
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