Okay, anyone who thinks Rathbun plans to Clear the Planet, raise your hand!

Wisened One

Crusader
If I was able to offer you a very special discount on your "I WANT TO GO SP CLUB" membership right now, today only, would you be willing to re-consider?

I am also prepared to throw in a free Button and T-Shirt that says:

ASK ME ABOUT SP

Will that be cash, check or charge?
.....................................................................................................................


:p

I do, I do!!!
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I like that Marty has been interested in black culture and looking
at their prospects. His wife is a sweetie.

heh! My last post at Marty's site before getting banned was: "Marty, have you read/heard what LRH said about blacks?"

Meanwhile, back to the topic. I have seen somewhere a comment to the effect that even if every $cilon were to walk out tomorrow the "church" has sufficient funds to maintain a corporate presence pretty much forever . . . does this ring true for anyone?

Also, as far as Marty setting up some sort of "structure", isn't that giving DM and Co a target?

Questions, questions question . . . you'all must get sick of the newbies.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
The Hairy Krishnutz went down hill bigtime after A.C. Swami Birdshitnose became an "ascended master". I suppose that what followed was a power struggle, and then a murder, huh? I wonder if anybody at the int base has the balls to actually do the dwarf like that. I know if it was my plan, I would make sure that everyone there stuck in his knife so as to make everybody involved, a plot at least as old as Julius Caesar.

Pete

Hey Pete,

Well there was a power sort of struggle, actually more of a power divide in ISKCON with the heirs to the throne splitting ISKCON up into fiefdoms. The murder I think you are referring to (referenced in Monkey on a Stick) was more an outgrowth of the gradual sinking of standards in ISKCON - it was not part of some "get the guru" move.

But what did them in was not that but the grotesque child abuse that was both rampant and covered up. Un fact the swami who was most involved with that has, apparently, been running a campaign to get back "in".

Cults abuse people.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
heh! My last post at Marty's site before getting banned was: "Marty, have you read/heard what LRH said about blacks?"

Meanwhile, back to the topic. I have seen somewhere a comment to the effect that even if every $cilon were to walk out tomorrow the "church" has sufficient funds to maintain a corporate presence pretty much forever . . . does this ring true for anyone?

Also, as far as Marty setting up some sort of "structure", isn't that giving DM and Co a target?

Questions, questions question . . . you'all must get sick of the newbies.

to answer your question about the finances - the "church" could not maintain its current corporate presence for more than a couple of years - it has vastly expensive properties that it cannot afford to keep even with the few customers it has now.

But if Scientology were to just contract down to the Clearwater location alone and with a few die hards - yeah, it could probably live off the investment returns on the reserves money pretty much indefinitely.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
to answer your question about the finances - the "church" could not maintain its current corporate presence for more than a couple of years - it has vastly expensive properties that it cannot afford to keep even with the few customers it has now.

But if Scientology were to just contract down to the Clearwater location alone and with a few die hards - yeah, it could probably live off the investment returns on the reserves money pretty much indefinitely.

I agree. The expansion of expensive properties (that we know of!) would be hugely expensive. However, I don't think we have any clear picture of how many are owned outright or are mortgaged, or, if mortgaged, where any funds raised for purchase went. Which is the problem with Scn's 'finances'; nobody knows. How many assets does the 'Church' have? Individual entities? Slush funds and secret accounts? Invested funds under what names? Personal fortunes in open and black accounts?

Nobody knows or will know till a forensic accountant gets to autopsy the corpse. And, even then, there's probably plenty socked away that doesn't show up on anybody's 'books'.

So, if Scientology wanted to shut down in the face of public and legal pressure, the people who 'matter' would be wealthy in any case. And, there'd be enough left to keep a thousand-strong chain-gang of fanatics to 'keep the dream alive' in any case.

Which is why the theories about 'outsiders' running Scientology are so ludicrous, or, one reason. Scientology *could* 'go legit' at any time and avoid the public scrutiny that's now ramping up. And, it could go the new-age 'reform' and 'get on Oprah' route, like The Secret.

But, it won't; because those running the Cult *are* true fanatics and they really *do* think they'll run the world.

On another note though; I've thought, since the early naughts, that much of the financial abuse and regging and heavy ethics etc. *is* deliberately done to drive the mass of non-fanatical publics and staff out in order to limit later liability in civil cases. 'What? You want to sue us? But, you left *voluntarily!*' Besides, it's scraping the bottom of the barrel and they're still able to get millions in donations.

Zinj
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
heh! My last post at Marty's site before getting banned was: "Marty, have you read/heard what LRH said about blacks?"

Meanwhile, back to the topic. I have seen somewhere a comment to the effect that even if every $cilon were to walk out tomorrow the "church" has sufficient funds to maintain a corporate presence pretty much forever . . . does this ring true for anyone?

Also, as far as Marty setting up some sort of "structure", isn't that giving DM and Co a target?

Questions, questions question . . . you'all must get sick of the newbies.
For quite a while yes - forever no. In any case, it will be the cults crime's that bring it down, rather than anything to do with finance.
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
finance crimes

I think it will be brought down from financial crimes. I think the human rights abuses, disconnection, coerced abortions,are all PR problems. I think the authorities will look for and find financial crimes of magnitude.Mostly because DM is arrogant and thinks he can't be caught. Too many people know that over 50, and probably more like 100, different corporations had their funds co-mingled into Sea Org Reserves, including all the ABLE groups. The money was raised fraudulently. ("Your donation will help children learn to read"- money went for a DM ski vacation to Aspen) It was co-mingled with many other donations. "They" have auditors who know what they are doing. Real auditors; the kind who track criminal activity through book-keeping. When they have it, they will strike without warning. DM will be taken down, and go away forever. Airtight. About the best he will be able to arrange , is WHICH Federal institution he will be incarcerated at.
Or, he will use one of his pistolas to end it all quickly. I doubt he has the courage.
 

Div6

Crusader
I think it will be brought down from financial crimes. I think the human rights abuses, disconnection, coerced abortions,are all PR problems. I think the authorities will look for and find financial crimes of magnitude.Mostly because DM is arrogant and thinks he can't be caught. Too many people know that over 50, and probably more like 100, different corporations had their funds co-mingled into Sea Org Reserves, including all the ABLE groups. The money was raised fraudulently. ("Your donation will help children learn to read"- money went for a DM ski vacation to Aspen) It was co-mingled with many other donations. "They" have auditors who know what they are doing. Real auditors; the kind who track criminal activity through book-keeping. When they have it, they will strike without warning. DM will be taken down, and go away forever. Airtight. About the best he will be able to arrange , is WHICH Federal institution he will be incarcerated at.
Or, he will use one of his pistolas to end it all quickly. I doubt he has the courage.

Webs of deceit like this usually do not "co-exist" peacefully with the entrenched "powers-that-be" unless there is some usefulness to its continued existence. BCCI and that web of fraudulent banks acting as fronts for the Safari Club are a good example of this. Someone, somewhere, has a use for potentially unlimited blackmail material on the general population in various countries, and the revenue streams engendered through the promotion of 'theta clearing'. Hubbard was very clear that it was not "religious" in nature in his early works, and that the "religious cloaking" was (nod, nod, wink, wink) for accountants purposes only.

Transparency and accountability are enemies to "black box" power structures. And they usually fight to the end to maintain their monopolies....

The IRS Secret Closing agreement installed "Tax compliance Officers" into the church hierarchy. That alone is a huge "WTF?".
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I think it will be brought down from financial crimes. I think the human rights abuses, disconnection, coerced abortions,are all PR problems. I think the authorities will look for and find financial crimes of magnitude.Mostly because DM is arrogant and thinks he can't be caught. Too many people know that over 50, and probably more like 100, different corporations had their funds co-mingled into Sea Org Reserves, including all the ABLE groups. The money was raised fraudulently. ("Your donation will help children learn to read"- money went for a DM ski vacation to Aspen) It was co-mingled with many other donations. "They" have auditors who know what they are doing. Real auditors; the kind who track criminal activity through book-keeping. When they have it, they will strike without warning. DM will be taken down, and go away forever. Airtight. About the best he will be able to arrange , is WHICH Federal institution he will be incarcerated at.
Or, he will use one of his pistolas to end it all quickly. I doubt he has the courage.
Quite right.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Ok, I'm still pretty pissed off.

I think that post on Marty's blog has really changed things for me.

I am not an ex...I am just a human being and a mother who doesn't like to see families broken up. I don't like to see parents separated from their children. I became a critic when I saw the cockroach bites on Lisa McPherson's hands. It's just wrong.

Do the indies care about this?

I really thought there was some common ground, and I think people like Amy Scobee and Jeff Hawkins and many others are on the same page.

But it seems like it's taboo to utter Lisa McPherson's name on Marty's blog.

That's a deal breaker for me.

Especially when Marty seems to allow some low level anon bashing. At least the anons care about Lisa McPherson and people who are separated from their children.

Do the indies????? Who are the "jerks" here???

That last post really has me wondering.

And that's what it's all about for me. People can believe what they want, but human beings don't allow a poor girl to die alone locked in a room with cockroaches biting her hands. They just don't. And they don't allow mothers and fathers to be separated from their children. Shame on all of those who still fall back on the old "it didn't happen to me" or "I got my wins" or "they pulled it in" or "the greatest good blah blah blah." Blech.

RAGE !!! To the ramparts !
 

Terril park

Sponsor
heh! My last post at Marty's site before getting banned was: "Marty, have you read/heard what LRH said about blacks?"

Marty has a ban policy?

I've had posts not accepted, and I'm widely regarded as his chief patsy. :)

Hubbard said lots of things about loads. Clearly Marty dosn't agree with the 1950s Hubbard 's comments in, this area. Niether do I.

If Marty dosn't agree with that, what else dosn't he agree to?

Is he in the category some people use, that if you don't agree with all Hubbardisms you aren't a scientologist?

If so he's not a scientologist.

So there you go.
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
heh! My last post at Marty's site before getting banned was: "Marty, have you read/heard what LRH said about blacks?".

You made this post asserting you have been banned at 7:20AM on May 12th.

You have two posts approved on the latest thread as of 11:30AM on May 12th.

Furthermore, the post you cited above was approved and Marty replied to you.

You are full of crap. :angry:

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Don't forget to call me psychic when it happens and independent Mudball-Clearers....

* Acquire a facility that is a haven for total freedom seekers. Probably a "ranch" or country spread that becomes the new "mecca" for Ron's tech.

* With that real estate acquisition the Indy Scn movement will graduate from a VIRTUAL CHURCH (Cyber minister Rathbun's Blog-Scripture) to a real religion. Watch for clever incorporations that avoid trademark and regulatory booby traps.

* But, they won't try to make another "Flag"--it'll be more of a bring-the-kids, let's-tell-Ron-stories-around-the-barbecue retreat. Think religious theme park--ThetaLand.

* At ThetaLand (they will wanna give themselves a more dignified name) honest beings can honestly get honest-to-god, honestly workable technology and become an honest OT, honestly! And people will dutifully write their "greatest wins ever on the honest-to-goodness REAL Tech" success stories.

* And.....at Thetaland they will discover that they are re-tracing Ron's footsteps from the early 1950's when he realized he needed an organization to respond to the demand. And from there, it was only a few minutes until he began to write POLICY letters.

* And.... guess what happens when Independent Scientologists do not agree and obey those POLICY letters?

* Yup. They get corrected using Study and other de-bug Tech. And if that doesn't work...

* They get handled using Ethics Tech. And if that doesn't work...

* They get controlled using Justice Tech. And if that doesn't work..

* They get "deleted" (the word "declare" is out pr)--the same way entheta posts are deleted from Marty's blog-scripture now.​

Conclusion? This whole movie is a rerun.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
You are a psychic ...

I think I will just short circuit all of this and call you psychic straight away HH.

Spot on.

I suppose the fund raising should start soon ... (if not already) for the ideal ranch ...

:happydance:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
From Tom Martiniano's girlfriend.

Just a sample "comment" from Marty's congregation:



Darla // May 11, 2010 at 3:27 am | Reply

I’ve been with Tom Martiniano for just over two years. It took us months to announce our independence (my announcement will post in two or three days). The actual delay was only due to family concerns. Tom’s love of Scientology is unimpeachable. He will not brook any nonsense when it comes to the application of points 1-10. The independent movement is fortified a thousand-fold with his announcement – because he will act. And when he acts, he gets the product. So Mark, Mosey, Mike, Chrissie, Haydn et al – let the games begin!
Go, Tom, go!
Darla



"He will not brook any nonsense when it comes to the application of points 1-10."

He may or may not have been mentally unstable before he joined Scientology.

Assuredly, he is quite mad now.

And dangerous.
 

Veda

Sponsor
You made this post asserting you have been banned at 7:20AM on May 12th.

You have two posts approved on the latest thread as of 11:30AM on May 12th.

Furthermore, the post you cited above was approved and Marty replied to you.

You are full of crap. :angry:

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.

Thanks for the link, Sneakster.

Looks like the haters are still trying smear LRH, much like DM is trying to do with MR. Haters lie.

But seriously folks....:dance3:
 

Ned Kelly

Patron
I have been wondering a bit about the various general viewpoints regarding the position of “independent” scientologists and the Mike and Marty camp of late.

On one side I can clearly rationalise that all religions are nuts or at least built on a bunch of beliefs that are unproven and often times surrounded in a load of mystical type supposed history. Jesus walking on water and rising from the dead, LRH and the Wall of Fire and clear et al.

So the question is for me, that if I sit here and say “oh my god what a crock of shit this is”, all these people are being suckered into something that does not deliver what it says it will – enlightenment, OT powers, heaven, nirvana etc – then should I not do everything I can to let these people know what is happening to them?

For me, now, life is probably a hell of a lot simpler than it ever was. People do really shitty stuff to each other no matter the walk of life. I am not excusing anyone for their behaviour or saying they have a right to behave as they do, but it is just a fact that shit happens, shit has always happened and I do not see that shit won't happen in the future. It is part and parcel of the human condition.

Depend on what camp you are in that determines whether shit is shit or fertiliser. If you are in the Marty camp then speaking ill of LRH is probably viewed as a shitty thing but a good thing if you are a critic of LRH. If you are in the critic community then seeing Marty trying to save Scientology would be a shitty thing, but if you are a believer in Scientology then it is a good thing.

So where does this leave me. Well fuck all of it actually.:duh: If Marty wants to set up an alternative religion to Scientology or take it over then go for it. If the critics want to engage in a righteous war to stop this happening then go for it.

Me, I am going out for a beer!:happydance:
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
I knew Tom years ago and it doesn't surprise me what he wrote. He at least back then was never one to hold back. I'm glad he is out and can write about some of the crap that went on. I don't however share his point of view or Marty's or his other followers on Scientology.

I supposed that for some it is hard to say it is a bunch of crap because for many it was years and years of going up the bridge getting auditing, training, working on staff etc and to say otherwise would mean you were wrong. That's a lot of time to invalidate. So to join an independent group of ex-church members who still believe makes sense. And for guys like Marty this represents an opportunity to come back in to the Church if it were to collapse as a hero or to be the guy in the field where the ex can go to for help and support.

Anyways I always thought Tom was a likable decent guy even if he was a zealot. Him leaving and publicly announcing this is another PR flap for the church as he has family still in. One of them a daughter OT 8 and CEO of a major WISE company.
 
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