Old OT levels Vs the New OT levels

Flag-2005

Patron with Honors
One thing maybe you can clarify for me is a confusion I have about the OT levels.

It seems that through to OT VII was released and being walked years ago....

Then the new NED for OTs came out and instead of placing it on the bridge it replaced the bridge.

So where are the original OT levels and where would they fit into todays Bridge, I assume after OT VII

I hope my question is clear. eg It seems to be there was an OT III, OT V and OT VII level which had Rundowns then its gone and a new levels are released with different auditing and EPs. Where is the old one? How are they different etc?

There is so much infighting between top tech terminals as to who offers all the tech on the upper bridge.

Thanks for answering if you have time.

I may even place this in a thread to see whats out there.

I hope David Mayo, Pierre Ethier, Ralph Hilton, Otto Roos or Alan can bring things to light for me.
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
In my day before NOTs, OT levels IV to VII and IIIExpanded were delivered. OTVIII was promised. The "EPs" of each level were listed on the Grade Chart

OT III removed the final barriers to achieving OT abilities.

IV to VII were mainly drills to rehab so-called "OT abilities". From what I remember it was things like projecting intention across a distance.

They were largely ineffective although of course some people believed they had got the abilities, but they were rarely verifiably demonstrated outside of session.

Then the L's came out which would remove the final barriers to achieving OT abilities.

Then a sick and caved in Ron got David Mayo to run entities on him, which Mayo then developed into NOTs.

As NOTs would remove the final barriers to achieving OT abilites the NOTs rundowns replaced IV to VII.

Basically every new thing removed the final barriers to achieving OT abilities! :duh:
 
Last edited:

Feral

Rogue male
I am certain that the old OT levels as well as the original OT VIII and maybe others developed at that time, prior to NOTs are about all there is coming.

Hubbard started his NOTS in '78 (?) and was ill for the last years of his life, so when did he have time to devolop seven levels above new OT VIII before he shuffled off?

Given the condition he was in when he ended his days, hiding, senile, on drugs and paranoid, I for one will not be rushing in to buy his "upper bridge"
 

Pitbull

Patron with Honors
This might be an interesting LEGAL sticking point.

If they are promoting the existence of levels above OT8,
they should have to be able to prove they exist. Whether
its a "religion" or not, they can't sell something that
does not exist.

Has there even been a legal case like this?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
This might be an interesting LEGAL sticking point.

If they are promoting the existence of levels above OT8,
they should have to be able to prove they exist. Whether
its a "religion" or not, they can't sell something that
does not exist.

Has there even been a legal case like this?

Where did you get that idea? 'They' have been selling 'stuff' that doesn't exist for going on 60 years.

Zinj
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
One thing maybe you can clarify for me is a confusion I have about the OT levels.

It seems that through to OT VII was released and being walked years ago....

Then the new NED for OTs came out and instead of placing it on the bridge it replaced the bridge.

So where are the original OT levels and where would they fit into todays Bridge, I assume after OT VII

I hope my question is clear. eg It seems to be there was an OT III, OT V and OT VII level which had Rundowns then its gone and a new levels are released with different auditing and EPs. Where is the old one? How are they different etc?

The old ones weren't Dianetics-based.
The NOTs levels are (audited and SOLO NOTs) -- that'd be new OT V - VII, with V being audited NOTs, VI being the Solo NOTs course, and VII being Solo NOTs.

Old OT IV wasn't a drug rundown, either.

I have always assumed that OTVIII's EP would be that LRH is the creator of the MEST universe and therefore god. :unsure:
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Zoners I trust tend to put everything through OTIII expanded online, and then do the "old OT levels", and then either do NOTs (current New OT V-VII) and OTVIII, or replace those actions with "Excalibur", which is the RONS Org bridge after III. I don't advocate doing anything after R6EW.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
This might be an interesting LEGAL sticking point.

If they are promoting the existence of levels above OT8,
they should have to be able to prove they exist. Whether
its a "religion" or not, they can't sell something that
does not exist.

Has there even been a legal case like this?

The CoS is not selling anything. You donate.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
It could be considered that the whole deal with Entity City is to get rid of all the extraneous beings interfering with the head honcho running his body and his life as expeditiously as possible, and then beef up HH efficiently without wasting time and money on the freeloaders, so to speak. Since the original OT 5-7 basically addressed HH and not the others, it would make sense in such a scenario to run them after Solo NOTs is complete and all the little critters have been sent on their way.

This is a theoretical position, and not my personal position at all. My personal position is first, that Entity City is barking up the wrong tree; and secondly, those original OT Levels should be run where much experience has shown where the best place to run them is, irrespective of any theory. I don't have enough practical experience to state where that is.

Paul
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
It could be considered that the whole deal with Entity City is to get rid of all the extraneous beings interfering with the head honcho running his body and his life as expeditiously as possible, and then beef up HH efficiently without wasting time and money on the freeloaders, so to speak. Since the original OT 5-7 basically addressed HH and not the others, it would make sense in such a scenario to run them after Solo NOTs is complete and all the little critters have been sent on their way.

This is a theoretical position, and not my personal position at all. My personal position is first, that Entity City is barking up the wrong tree; and secondly, those original OT Levels should be run where much experience has shown where the best place to run them is, irrespective of any theory. I don't have enough practical experience to state where that is.

Paul

You have to go back to the Tech prior to late 1963 - up to then ALL processing and training was aimed at following the clients goals, purpose and interest lines.......sessions started by addressing the client - who was also the head honcho - goals and interest lines.

The first question after Start of Session was:

What are your goals for this session?

The second question was:

What are your goals for life and living?

Part of the session end ruds were:

Did you achieve any part of your goals for this session?

Did you achieve any part of your goals for life and living?


After late '63 Hubbard began to super-impose his goals on the clients.

Alan
 

Terril park

Sponsor
One thing maybe you can clarify for me is a confusion I have about the OT levels.

It seems that through to OT VII was released and being walked years ago....

Then the new NED for OTs came out and instead of placing it on the bridge it replaced the bridge.

So where are the original OT levels and where would they fit into todays Bridge, I assume after OT VII

I hope my question is clear. eg It seems to be there was an OT III, OT V and OT VII level which had Rundowns then its gone and a new levels are released with different auditing and EPs. Where is the old one? How are they different etc?

There is so much infighting between top tech terminals as to who offers all the tech on the upper bridge.

Thanks for answering if you have time.

I may even place this in a thread to see whats out there.

I hope David Mayo, Pierre Ethier, Ralph Hilton, Otto Roos or Alan can bring things to light for me.

The bridge from 1982 had the original OT levels. Nots was a "repair" for those who had problems on the original OT levels.
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to Terril Park

The bridge from 1982 had the original OT levels. Nots was a "repair" for those who had problems on the original OT levels.

Terril, I was Flag Crew when the NOTs rundown was released and it was never stated as a 'repair' for the original OT levels. Please don't make up stories.
According to David Mayo at a briefing he did in person that I attended, the NOTs rundown handled the same things that standard dianetics handled, but for those who were OT III and above.
Smitty
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
One thing maybe you can clarify for me is a confusion I have about the OT levels.

It seems that through to OT VII was released and being walked years ago....

Then the new NED for OTs came out and instead of placing it on the bridge it replaced the bridge.

So where are the original OT levels and where would they fit into todays Bridge, I assume after OT VII

I hope my question is clear. eg It seems to be there was an OT III, OT V and OT VII level which had Rundowns then its gone and a new levels are released with different auditing and EPs. Where is the old one? How are they different etc?

There is so much infighting between top tech terminals as to who offers all the tech on the upper bridge.

Thanks for answering if you have time.

I may even place this in a thread to see whats out there.

I hope David Mayo, Pierre Ethier, Ralph Hilton, Otto Roos or Alan can bring things to light for me.

The only person I know who is still alive today who can give you the correct sequence to the development of the OT Levels from OT III on is DartSmothen as he was put in charge of developing much of the early material.

He set up and put in place the "Casecracking" Unit. He was its main auditor.

This gave him the experience to clean up 1,000s of completely messed up pc's from earlier bad auditing.

He then became Chief of Advanced Courses, and was responsible for administering the levels.

As part of this post, he was entrusted with the LRH research and the most "confidential materials" kept in a safe in the lower decks.

In there was the full write up of the story of OT 3. Also in the safe was a pile of research papers that stood about 2 foot high.

It had been written and copied in reverse, so the only way to read it was by holding a page up to a mirror.

There is a lot more to this - maybe Dart can fill in the gaps? :)

Alan
 

Veda

Sponsor
The bridge from 1982 had the original OT levels. Nots was a "repair" for those who had problems on the original OT levels.

This is incorrect information.

Would have to go back and check the exact date but, by 1979, the old OT levels were replaced with NOTs, which quickly became NOTs as New OT 4, New OT 5, New OT 6, New OT 7.

NOTs was sold with the promise that it would "remove the final barrier to Full OT," just as the Clearing Course, and then OT 3, had been sold before it.

Around that time (maybe a little earlier) it was also announced that there were "perhaps 15 levels above OT 7," etc.

I'm pretty sure of this date, but would want to re-check to be absolutely sure.

It sure wasn't "1982."

If you want the OT levels, minus Hubbardian (*Tell* the person the contents of his mind and/or space) "Implantology," join the Rosicrucians and do their "upper levels." You even get free incense.

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=510
 
So where are the original OT levels and where would they fit into todays Bridge, I assume after OT VII


I know for a fact they are still available in the Freezone. The Elma Center offers them, as do several others. As to where they fit in, depends on C/Sing & pc's expressed interest.

Co$ doesn't appear to offer them at all at present, so they don't fit in on "today's bridge".



Mark A. Baker
 

Flag-2005

Patron with Honors
by 1979, the old OT levels were replaced with NOTs, which quickly became NOTs as New OT 4, New OT 5, New OT 6, New OT 7.

NOTs was sold with the promise that it would "remove the final barrier to Full OT," just as the Clearing Course, and then OT 3, had been sold before it.

So really the Old OT levels were some stuff from "Creation of Human Ability" and "Sci 8008"

And the new OT levels were presented as undercuts and took of more charge off the thetan ( un-packed him ) to increase awareness up to where exteriorization was stable and real enough to run the old levels.

And the New OT Levels flavor with 'The History of Man", the make-up of the body, engrams, valances, GPMs and dianetics. And again these were undercut by the grades.

So did anyone attest to the Old OT Levels? The R/Ds EPs are fairly clear or did everyone false attest and went on undercuts.

Anyone do the CC, Power and then Old OT Levels and want to tell of it?

Objectives are best done exterior aren't they?
 
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