On being Exterior, your views ?

[AnonyMary]

I felt highly overwhelmed in Sec Checks.

I didn't feel that way in other forms of auditing. To me, exteriorization is just another word for non-attachment, but carries with it an idea of some sort of energy body or spiritual "being", which I don't think exists.

There are degrees of overwhelm. One does not have to know one is overwhelmed to be overwhelmed. My observations come in retrospect.

Some people have no clue they are being sold something they don't really need or want until after they look back in retrospect.

I agree about non-attachment being the same thing as exteriorization. To me, it's a fleeing of reality at the moment, to one degree or another.

 

[uniquemand]

I disagree about it being fleeing reality. It is similar to the difference between loving someone and wanting someone. A person who loves someone else wants to nurture and help that other person, but doesn't require their presence, or need to control them. Wanting someone can become obsessive.

 

[nexus100]

There are degrees of overwhelm. One does not have to know one is overwhelmed to be overwhelmed. My observations come in retrospect.

Some people have no clue they are being sold something they don't really need or want until after they look back in retrospect.

I agree about non-attachment being the same thing as exteriorization. To me, it's a fleeing of reality at the moment, to one degree or another.

I think as one understands an area one can visit it. This is in degrees as well. The better one knows an area, the easier it is to locate what is created there. That visit includes time.

One creates one's own reality as a viewpoint. One sees from one spot. But one is also creating all reality as God. So what one is willing to see, one can see. What one is willing to know, one can know. Taking this approach pretty much answers all questions about why things are the way they are. But there is still all of the rest of creation to visit. This is a large scale game.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I felt highly overwhelmed in Sec Checks.

I didn't feel that way in other forms of auditing. To me, exteriorization is just another word for non-attachment, but carries with it an idea of some sort of energy body or spiritual "being", which I don't think exists.

Actually, I never had a problem with Sec Checks. Maybe that was because I was such a loyal little scilon. I usually found them quite "fun", perhaps because the questions themselves were so funny.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Sceintology is to Exteriorization what Male Enhancement Pills are to Penis Enlargement ...

They both produce the sames results,

suckers with less money in their bank accounts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rjvsmjBIMA

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

I think as one understands an area one can visit it. This is in degrees as well. The better one knows an area, the easier it is to locate what is created there. That visit includes time.

One creates one's own reality as a viewpoint. One sees from one spot. But one is also creating all reality as God. So what one is willing to see, one can see. What one is willing to know, one can know. Taking this approach pretty much answers all questions about why things are the way they are. But there is still all of the rest of creation to visit. This is a large scale game.

Your'e quite right! - Reminds me of when I edited the unicorns out of existence. But there are pitfalls, even when acting responsibly, or doing one's best to, as a god.

Incredibly, noone, or only very few, seemed to appreciate the awesomeness of my OT powers. My report was largely ignored.. No matter.. They'll have to live in this new reality just the same won't they?

I'll just quote my report about the unicorn edit here:

Important message!

Hey folks! - I've not bragged or made much of it.. But I'm a natural OT! -It's just not in my character to brag about such.

But.. I do feel I need to tell you this.. After all there are people here who are pretty perceptive spiritually. So as not to leave anyone in confusion.. Hmm..

Just half an hour ago I abolished unicorns! - Removed them from reality altogether. Both the flying ones and those without wings. There's a swimming one I left in place.. Of course, this was a whole track edit of reality. There will be traces left of unicorns anyway.. As in folk legends and such. But they are gone!

I realize that some of you might object. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.. Change it back if you don't like the new reality.

However, a reality edit of this magnitude sort of spills effect all over the place, as you might imagine.. Those very spiritually perceptive of you might still recall that I was a Zeppeliner skipper of great accomplisment, wearing a spiked hat and all... The world was full of Zeppliners and I was roaming the skies.

Well, that was when a flying unicorn punctured my zeppeliner. Crazy bugger! - I crashed and burned! - I will NOT put up with shit like that!

So that was the immediate reason for deleting the silly beasts from reality... Without sorrow I might add!

Ah.. The spill effects.. The Zeppeliners went non existent too! - That pisses me off and leaves me without my preferred job, dammit!

Now I haven't really oriented myself in this new reality yet. But hells bells! - L.Ron Hubbard seems to have created quite a confounded mess! - And he's dead too!

Imagine my utter amazement.. That guy, L.Ron Hubbard was quite funny. He did a show that had us all in stitches of laughter.. Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. He'd dress as a really outlandish fat woman and comment on just about anything... Shuck's! - At first I thought there was no reality change, when I saw Dame Edna on the telly! - I thought: Hey! There's Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. And I got ready for a giggle.

Then I find out that he created this obscene Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology!

Shit! Half an hour ago he was Ol'e Mutha Hubbard and funny as shit!

Well, it does make me regret I did the reality edit.. Too late now.. I better not make any more reality edits.. What with all manner of freaky spilleffects!

I do realize that I inadvertently caused this royal mess.. It wasn't my intention.. I just wanted to get rid of those pesky unicorns! - All those outrageous and unnerving changes were accidental! - But I do take responsibility! - I placed myself in treason and postulated myself back in power immediatly.. A small step for a thetan, a huge leap of incredulity!

We'll just have to work together and get rid of that damned cult! - What say you? - Shall we clean up this place?

<snip> Somebody edited them out long ago. Now they exist only in the bedrooms of little girls. <snip>

Well, that's how it looks when a whole track edit is done! - I just TOLD you I did it.. Welll, an hour ago by now.. I'm still discovering upsetting changes! - The winds of change washing up the timestream like a temporal tsunami!

Looks like the unicorns were replaced with warthogs BtW.. My grandaddy rode a magnifiscent white unicorn to fetch my grandmother for their wedding. Erhm.. That changed.. Now he was run over by an irate warthog and died horribly.. That was a close call! - The grandfather paradox! - A deadly risk in any temporal operations! - Luckily he already did the naugty deed with my grandmother.. But of course she languished as an unmarried slut with an illegitimate brat of a son who grew up to be one of the worlds most accomplished womanizers.. So that I'm his son is no surprize.. There's a bloody lot of people who's his kids! - I think it was us who voted Reagan into office!

I do understand that you miss the unicorns.. But they were a menace to air traffic over rural as well as other areas! And in weather unfit for man or dog! - Good riddance!

Wow…and I been thinkin' you was just a jumbo preserved cucumber when, in reality, you was a big legume all along.

Face

Thank you Schwimmy for leaving the swimming ones in place...I have always thought they were charming with their long spiral horns!

Yeah.. I figured they could do no harm.. They can't puncture a submarine after all..

But I'm afraid I've brought myself in a horrible bind with that reality edit. It appears that I'm not an OT anymore! - I noticed yesterday that I had to stop for a red traffic light. Didn't think much of it at first, but since I've had to stop for red repeatedly! - Hell.. I've even suffered the ignomity of there NOT being vacant parking space where I needed it!

So I checked it out.. I even have to mow my damned lawn physically!!

Of course I only have myself to blame. Even for me, the old reality is now like a vague memory of a dream slipping away.

Thank's for believing me anyway.. Most people don't.. They can't of course.. Since it was the actual real reality I changed. Not just 'my reality'.. Like scientology OT's like to do.. They're pipsqueak OT's!

But look what it brought me!! Let this be a warning.

And thank's afaceinthecrowd, I take a win from being recognised a big legume!

 

[nexus100]

Your'e quite right! - Reminds me of when I edited the unicorns out of existence. But there are pitfalls, even when acting responsibly, or doing one's best to, as a god.

Incredibly, noone, or only very few, seemed to appreciate the awesomeness of my OT powers. My report was largely ignored.. No matter.. They'll have to live in this new reality just the same won't they?

I'll just quote my report about the unicorn edit here:

 

[Kutta]

I've had a range of experiences that may be regarded as related to the idea of exteriorization, though I haven't a clue if it really is.

One time while buzzing after a lecture on Hinduism, I tried imaginatively to be in a state without time. Suddenly I had a very scary feeling, felt very wobbly, and had to grab hold of something solid to 'get back'. Otherwise I was very afraid I would disappear.

When I had breast cancer, I did this taped meditation whereby, in a relaxed meditative state, I would scan the inside of my body. If my attention lighted on an area, I would kind of shine a light on it and in my mind's eye it would clear. Sometimes I would encourage said 'blockage' to exit through the body's nerve channels. I also visualized the miraculous white blood cells that fight alien cells. Visualize them being manufactured in the bone marrow and rushing in their millions to the site of the cancer. Some of them behave like little canons that swivel to get the target in their sights and then, Bam, smash them to smithereens.

I always assumed that 'I' was doing this from a position just outside my body. Whatever the case, it gave a sense of power and control over my cancer, and this extended to feeling more in control over life in general, even outside of my own sphere. :confused2:

I have done something like this for years and years. When I have a headache or other pain in my body, I assume an out of body perspective and put attention on the area. It often works to dissipate the pain. Of course, I have no idea at all whether this is all my imagination, except that the pain does often go away.

In auditing, when 'keyed-out', I sometimes felt and visualized myself as a particle zipping through galaxies squillions of miles away from earth, travelling through vast spaces at vast speeds. It was an exhilarating feeling.

All very mysterious. Anyone else have these kind of experiences? :confused2:

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Exactly, I'm afraid. The nature of my question was such that, if there is that much debate and waffling about the answer, then to me also that answer is No.

I see nothing wrong with simply declaring that matter is matter and spirit is something else. There's no need for a lot of snow about waves and particles and everything-is-subjective — unless you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too. That can take some fancy dancing.

Nope.

The answer given depends on the assumptions which are inherent in the question. Simple questions usually have complex assumptions underlying them of which the asker is often wholly unaware. Hence it is often more instructive to examine the nature of the question.


Mark A. Baker

 

[programmer_guy]

Anyone who can go exterior should be able to prove it.
And it should be easily reproduced by any independent peer review.
It's that simple.

 

[Pepin]

I often go Exterior.
my perceptions are different than throught the eyes and not so clear.
often very close up, feeling, looking at the roughness of surfaces... or even their 'taste'.
However, I would like to CONFIRM from others their feelings of being Exterior and comparing it to IMAGINING one is exterior.

can everyone imagine being and viewing from another location and what they can see ??

are there OTs here who confirm FULL EXTERIORISATION WITH FULL PERCEPTION AND CONFIRM THIS AS QUITE DIFFEodyRENT TO IMAGINING THAT VIEW ?

but then .... define 'imagine' ... sounds like magic to me!

Perhaps it may help to begin with what is INTERIOR?!

I suppose most will say interior is "being IN a body"

If we take that to be true, then being exterior is defacto BEING exterior to the body.

Yes, We will have more perceptions exterior than what a body can perceive. A body is limited to sight, sound, and many other perceptions.

A body is IN time and is limited to that viewpoint. A person is exterior to the body AND time.
It is more natural for the person to perceive things exterior to the body and "IT's" time.

That being said, the body screams for our attention and our society screams for us to BELIEVE we are merely body's stuck in time.

Anyone here who will yell loudly of BEING a body and not spirit justifies a reason for Hubbard to have made such remedial and silly methods to deal with the basics of being spirit.

For those of you who have some wisdom, notice, the term justify. Yes, What is wrong in that justification is it empowers the idea that the awareness of self/spirit is needed.

~p

 

[Pepin]

Since my going out of the body (a bit) it had been stable. For whatever reason I cannot leave completely. Feels like remote controlling my body.

And indeed we do remote control the body. Be it millions of miles or 5 inches, the body is ALWAYS remote controlled. The only perceived difference is comfort zone.

 

[Student of Trinity]

The answer given depends on the assumptions which are inherent in the question. Simple questions usually have complex assumptions underlying them of which the asker is often wholly unaware. Hence it is often more instructive to examine the nature of the question.

In my experience, that's an intermediate stage of understanding something — the point at which it seems awfully subtle, but I think I'm so clever that I've managed to figure it out. I find that thinking I'm clever is a sure sign that I don't yet really understand it. Once it's really clear, the simple questions also have simple answers, and I only feel stupid for not having seen them sooner. That's not very satisfying to my ego, but in my experience, it's what genuine progress in understanding is like.

From the subtle middle point, the naive initial assumptions seem foolish. But from the simple endpoint, that initial level of misunderstanding seems mild and easily corrected, in comparison with the smug convolutions of the middle stage. I'm not sure why the path to deeper understanding so often goes through such a tricky intermediate zone, when in hindsight there usually turns out to have been a much simpler route. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

In my experience, that's an intermediate stage of understanding something — the point at which it seems awfully subtle, but I think I'm so clever that I've managed to figure it out. I find that thinking I'm clever is a sure sign that I don't yet really understand it. Once it's really clear, the simple questions also have simple answers, and I only feel stupid for not having seen them sooner. That's not very satisfying to my ego, but in my experience, it's what genuine progress in understanding is like.

From the subtle middle point, the naive initial assumptions seem foolish. But from the simple endpoint, that initial level of misunderstanding seems mild and easily corrected, in comparison with the smug convolutions of the middle stage. I'm not sure why the path to deeper understanding so often goes through such a tricky intermediate zone, when in hindsight there usually turns out to have been a much simpler route. Maybe it's just me.

Your view is understandable. The subject of physics is motivated to achieve a simplified understanding of the complexity of the actual physical processes reflected in the appearance of the world. Matters of philosophical interpretation are often viewed as at best "secondary" to predictable patterns of relationships among observable phenomena.

Much of my own earlier training was in mathematics, a subject which is essentially a mental one. In mathematics it is imperative to clearly frame the question being asked so as to see a way through to the necessary relationships which determine the relevant conditions. A lack of precision in a question can lead to invalid, or contradictory approaches in the resultant mathematics.

Thus in dealing with questions relating to the mind or mental phenomena, precision in the statement of the questions is essential, as is a clear understanding of what those questions are. Knowledge is itself a mental phenomena. It is not "an observable" but the very cognitive basis of observation. This is also true of the understanding of experience & perception. The ability to thoroughly and accurately analyze mental phenomena such as these is essential to understanding there nature as mental phenomena.

Understanding as it relates to the mind is subjective in a way which is inescapably bound with its subject matter. Physical sciences, at least to many, appear to be somewhat at a remove wherein many of its practitioners believe they can ignore such issues as "unnecessarily philosophic", although by doing so they are at the loss for their own completeness of understanding.


Mark A. Baker

 

[programmer_guy]

Your view is understandable. The subject of physics is motivated to achieve a simplified understanding of the complexity of the actual physical processes reflected in the appearance of the world. Matters of philosophical interpretation are often viewed as at best "secondary" to predictable patterns of relationships among observable phenomena.

Much of my own earlier training was in mathematics, a subject which is essentially a mental one. In mathematics it is imperative to clearly frame the question being asked so as to see a way through to the necessary relationships which determine the relevant conditions. A lack of precision in a question can lead to invalid, or contradictory approaches in the resultant mathematics.

Thus in dealing with questions relating to the mind or mental phenomena, precision in the statement of the questions is essential, as is a clear understanding of what those questions are. Knowledge is itself a mental phenomena. It is not "an observable" but the very cognitive basis of observation. This is also true of the understanding of experience & perception. The ability to thoroughly and accurately analyze mental phenomena such as these is essential to understanding there nature as mental phenomena.

Understanding as it relates to the mind is subjective in a way which is inescapably bound with its subject matter. Physical sciences, at least to many, appear to be somewhat at a remove wherein many of its practitioners believe they can ignore such issues as "unnecessarily philosophic", although by doing so they are at the loss for their own completeness of understanding.


Mark A. Baker

Philosophizing is interesting at times. But in the real world where we have to make things work, it just doesn't "cut it".

If I had your view, I would never be able to make anything in engineering work at all.

And Scientology was never any so-called "science of the mind" anyway. That's just the way that it is presented.
It's pseudo-science.

 

[Veda]

Your view is understandable. The subject of physics is motivated to achieve a simplified understanding of the complexity

-snip pompous gas cloud-

Oh my God, not another exhibition of masturbatory pedantic verbosity.

Still, you haven't revisited the level of highly ornamented smoke-blowing and obfuscation attained when you argued that Scientologists don't believe in past lives, and that Hubbard was a nuclear physicist since what is a nuclear physicist anyway?

 

[I told you I was trouble]

:surprise1:


Pre scientology I had an out of body experience whereby I was suddenly looking down (from up near the ceiling) at the 8-10 people I was in the room with.

I was fully aware and could see and hear my friends chatting and laughing clearly and I could still hear the music (Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band) ... it probably only lasted about 3 seconds and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control (of myself) and I kind of jumped/fell back into my body ... but I liked knowing that it was possible.

Yes, we were smoking dope (but I didn't think I had inhaled) ... lol.

 

[apple]

Doing Tai Chi puts me in this condition or close to it.
And yes Kutta I understand where you are coming from, I have practiced similar things.

 

[nexus100]

In my experience, that's an intermediate stage of understanding something — the point at which it seems awfully subtle, but I think I'm so clever that I've managed to figure it out. I find that thinking I'm clever is a sure sign that I don't yet really understand it. Once it's really clear, the simple questions also have simple answers, and I only feel stupid for not having seen them sooner. That's not very satisfying to my ego, but in my experience, it's what genuine progress in understanding is like.

From the subtle middle point, the naive initial assumptions seem foolish. But from the simple endpoint, that initial level of misunderstanding seems mild and easily corrected, in comparison with the smug convolutions of the middle stage. I'm not sure why the path to deeper understanding so often goes through such a tricky intermediate zone, when in hindsight there usually turns out to have been a much simpler route. Maybe it's just me.

I love this!

 

[thefiredragon]

Anyone who can go exterior should be able to prove it.
And it should be easily reproduced by any independent peer review.
It's that simple.

Back in 90s I was living in scn student dorms, and my best friend missed his mother. On TRs he went exterior ,went home and saw that his mom moved all furniture in the house and hanged new curtains. He called his mom on the phone later and discribed how the house looks now, the color of the curtains and everything and his mom was very surprised and was keep asking how did he know.
I also can go exterior and do that a lot
One time,for example,my kids were playing at playground and I went out of my body and felt that some danger is comming. I told my kids to leave right away and we went to the library. When we came back, we passed the same playground. The huge branch of a very old tree felt down and smashed the fence,bent down the swings and smashed a metal "car" with a -in pipe inside that my daugher liked to hide in.
Does this count as a prove?
--