On being Exterior, your views ?

[thefiredragon]

Anyone who can go exterior should be able to prove it.
And it should be easily reproduced by any independent peer review.
It's that simple.

Back in 90s I was living in scn student dorms, and my best friend missed his mother. On TRs he went exterior ,went home and saw that his mom moved all furniture in the house and hanged new curtains. He called his mom on the phone later and discribed how the house looks now, the color of the curtains and everything and his mom was very surprised and was keep asking how did he know.
I also can go exterior and do that a lot
One time,for example,my kids were playing at playground and I went out of my body and felt that some danger is comming. I told my kids to leave right away and we went to the library. When we came back, we passed the same playground. The huge branch of a very old tree felt down and smashed the fence,bent down the swings and smashed a metal "car" with a -in pipe inside that my daugher liked to hide in.
Does this count as a prove?
--

 

[Panda Termint]

In my experience, that's an intermediate stage of understanding something — the point at which it seems awfully subtle, but I think I'm so clever that I've managed to figure it out. I find that thinking I'm clever is a sure sign that I don't yet really understand it. Once it's really clear, the simple questions also have simple answers, and I only feel stupid for not having seen them sooner. That's not very satisfying to my ego, but in my experience, it's what genuine progress in understanding is like.

From the subtle middle point, the naive initial assumptions seem foolish. But from the simple endpoint, that initial level of misunderstanding seems mild and easily corrected, in comparison with the smug convolutions of the middle stage. I'm not sure why the path to deeper understanding so often goes through such a tricky intermediate zone, when in hindsight there usually turns out to have been a much simpler route. Maybe it's just me.

I like this too and can assure you, it's not just you.

 

[AnonyMary]

I think as one understands an area one can visit it. This is in degrees as well. The better one knows an area, the easier it is to locate what is created there. That visit includes time.

One creates one's own reality as a viewpoint. One sees from one spot. But one is also creating all reality as God. So what one is willing to see, one can see. What one is willing to know, one can know. Taking this approach pretty much answers all questions about why things are the way they are. But there is still all of the rest of creation to visit. This is a large scale game.

I disagree in part. Going exterior on the way to a concentration camp death is not a about seeing something willingly and I am sure this was experienced by at least some of the Jews who were then murdered by the Nazis.

There is self and others. It's not a 'just about you' thing. Circumstances have much to do with the effect of exteriorization aka out-of-body experienced.

 

[Zinjifar]

Back when I first started running into Scientologists, I'd already had decades of experience with people having 'out of body' experiences or 'astral traveling' or any number of related things I'd even experienced myself.

What *surprised* me was that Scientologists used the term 'going exterior' for just being kind of blown away or feeling weird, with no relationship to what us 'wogs' would consider 'out of body'. Strange but true.

In retrospect, I shouldn't have been surprised. After all, their *own* concept of 'Clear', which launched the whole game has been redefined numerous times since 1950, most of the redefinitions being towards 'yawn'.

Not to speak of 'OT', which per marketing should mean being able to alter the course of planets, but in practice sinks to the level of 'I managed to get out of bed without tripping'.

Zinj

 

[Good twin]

Yeah. What Zinj said.

When I was in I was always amazed at how fixated Scientologists were on "exteriorization". The way I understood it the whole out int thing wasn't really possible if you knew you were a thetan, but the cult made tons of dough on people getting that rundown and getting it over and over again. It always seemed so absurd to me.

Now, since removing myself from the cult, it still seems absurd, but so does my own previous opinion of the whole thing. Now it's like, so what? Can you hold a job? Are you allergic to cats? Who cares where you're perceiving from?

My mom was amazingly aware and perceptive long before I found the cult. I wasn't impressed with her so much either. She always knew who was on the other end of the ringing phone and she could manifest wishes like no one else I've ever known. She always knew what I was thinking and she knew exactly which boys were going to break my heart. She never disapproved of Scientology. I think she always hoped it would help me understand her better.

Ironic huh?

 

[programmer_guy]

Back in 90s I was living in scn student dorms, and my best friend missed his mother. On TRs he went exterior ,went home and saw that his mom moved all furniture in the house and hanged new curtains. He called his mom on the phone later and discribed how the house looks now, the color of the curtains and everything and his mom was very surprised and was keep asking how did he know.
I also can go exterior and do that a lot
One time,for example,my kids were playing at playground and I went out of my body and felt that some danger is comming. I told my kids to leave right away and we went to the library. When we came back, we passed the same playground. The huge branch of a very old tree felt down and smashed the fence,bent down the swings and smashed a metal "car" with a -in pipe inside that my daugher liked to hide in.
Does this count as a prove?
--

Do you have a journal where you record how many times you have been right and how many times you have been wrong?

I was on chat here once when I suggested that some of us get and use webcams so that we could do a video conference call using skype (I already had mine). Mick Wenlock was one who was "not going for it". So, I suggested to Mick that he get a webcam instead of that new horse. He laughed and said that they were, indeed, buying another horse. Was I "exterior"? Nope. Guess how I did that.

 

[uniquemand]

A proof would be a situation in which there were witnesses, and a person who made those sorts of changes, and then you called in and described the changes in such a way that the witnesses also understood that you had nailed it, ideally with the whole thing recorded on video with audio. Not reporting an anecdote after the fact without any corroboration, and with no controls.

 

[programmer_guy]

A proof would be a situation in which there were witnesses, and a person who made those sorts of changes, and then you called in and described the changes in such a way that the witnesses also understood that you had nailed it, ideally with the whole thing recorded on video with audio. Not reporting an anecdote after the fact without any corroboration, and with no controls.

^^^ THIS ^^^

Correctamundo!

 

[Zinjifar]

Back when I was about 20 I had an experience where I jumped through about 30 different people and adopted their viewpoints (and thoughts) in a few minutes, before returning to myself.

There is *no* way I could 'prove' that, but, the experience itself was the lesson and the realization wasn't particularly related to the experience. I realized that 'I'm not I'.

That lesson has stuck with me and been very useful. Proof notwithstanding.

Zinj

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Yep!

Good discussion, folks! Good Twin, I think your Mom must have been a long lost-relative!

Maybe you have to experience it first before you can believe in it?

I still think most of us are capable of doing all sorts of these kinds of things, unless we have some organic brain damage...

 

[programmer_guy]

Yep!

Good discussion, folks! Good Twin, I think your Mom must have been a long lost-relative!

Maybe you have to experience it first before you can believe in it?

I still think most of us are capable of doing all sorts of these kinds of things, unless we have some organic brain damage...

Yeah, and I said something about a physical attribute you have, in PM.
And you were surprised.
Was I exterior? Nope, I was not.
Do you "get it" yet?

 

[SweetnessandLight]

OY!!!

Who me??? :confused2:

Oh God, now I gotta go back thru a ton of pms to find it, shucks!

Photographic memory? Cold reading? Induction, deduction, necromancy?

Can I make a fun guess and say you have a magic mirror like the lady on Romper Room?

Be back eventually...

Maybe you just remembered something I had said elsewhere?

P.S. Well, I do think we might have met, long long ago and you know where!

 

[degraded being]

Back in 90s I was living in scn student dorms, and my best friend missed his mother. On TRs he went exterior ,went home and saw that his mom moved all furniture in the house and hanged new curtains. He called his mom on the phone later and discribed how the house looks now, the color of the curtains and everything and his mom was very surprised and was keep asking how did he know.
I also can go exterior and do that a lot
One time,for example,my kids were playing at playground and I went out of my body and felt that some danger is comming. I told my kids to leave right away and we went to the library. When we came back, we passed the same playground. The huge branch of a very old tree felt down and smashed the fence,bent down the swings and smashed a metal "car" with a -in pipe inside that my daugher liked to hide in.
Does this count as a prove?
--

It counts as 2 success stories for "Advance" magazine.

 

[programmer_guy]

Who me??? :confused2:

Oh God, now I gotta go back thru a ton of pms to find it, shucks!

Photographic memory? Cold reading? Induction, deduction, necromancy?

Can I make a fun guess and say you have a magic mirror like the lady on Romper Room?

Be back eventually...

Maybe you just remembered something I had said elsewhere?

P.S. Well, I do think we might have met, long long ago and you know where!

Search your outgoing PMs for "GOOD HEAVENS!" in the content.
You'll find it. (Okay, I'll be quiet now.)

 

[paradox]

Back in 90s I was living in scn student dorms, and my best friend missed his mother. On TRs he went exterior ,went home and saw that his mom moved all furniture in the house and hanged new curtains. He called his mom on the phone later and discribed how the house looks now, the color of the curtains and everything and his mom was very surprised and was keep asking how did he know.
I also can go exterior and do that a lot
One time,for example,my kids were playing at playground and I went out of my body and felt that some danger is comming. I told my kids to leave right away and we went to the library. When we came back, we passed the same playground. The huge branch of a very old tree felt down and smashed the fence,bent down the swings and smashed a metal "car" with a -in pipe inside that my daugher liked to hide in.
Does this count as a prove?
--

It counts as 2 success stories for "Advance" magazine.

Just missing the magicness of available parking spaceness and all-greeness traffic lightness!

Oops, my badness. Got my tone40 postulateness mixed up with my full-percepticness exteriorness.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Back when I was about 20 I had an experience where I jumped through about 30 different people and adopted their viewpoints (and thoughts) in a few minutes, before returning to myself.

There is *no* way I could 'prove' that, but, the experience itself was the lesson and the realization wasn't particularly related to the experience. I realized that 'I'm not I'.

That lesson has stuck with me and been very useful. Proof notwithstanding.

Zinj

Whoa. THIS happened to me twice when I was in junior high. Once when I was coming out of band class. Another time when I was going into homeroom. I walked down the hall passing the other students and suddenly I was first, the girl going into French II, and then the kid going into practice his tuba for the football game, and then the kid who forgot his medicine, and then the girl pissed off that her smart looking knee high stockings that made her kilt look so nifty weren't already clean in the laundry when getting ready for school. Whooosh. Happens fast...traveling from one person to the other, wearing the mind of that person and groking everything going on and then to the next and the next. Doesn't happen anymore. :confused2:
This was the weirdest experience. I attribute this to a team member connected to me who was flitting from person to person checking out which courses to sit in one.

 

[Hatshepsut]

It had been remarked by David Mayo that it is sort of a misconception that a being can be 'in' anything anyway. So I guess you have to ask yourself what it is that is 'in' or 'went in' or 'can't go in' or is 'being trapped' etc. It is a mass or an identity or something the being is identified 'with' or has created that went in...even if its just perhaps a very subtle nuance or substitute for himself.

 

[programmer_guy]

People who want to believe this stuff only remember the small number of positives and never the great amount of negatives.

That's the way it is. That's the way we are as humans.

Here is an idea. Please tell some stories that had a negative outcome... it didn't pan out as you thought.
When you think about any "pet" beliefs it's difficult... isn't it? Me, too.

Any takers?

You will remember what tickled your fancy and not what didn't.
And this is the major problem with relying on anecdotal stories.

(Unless you were betrayed by another. Then that would be another subject...)

 

[Hatshepsut]

Your view is understandable. The subject of physics is motivated to achieve a simplified understanding of the complexity of the actual physical processes reflected in the appearance of the world. Matters of philosophical interpretation are often viewed as at best "secondary" to predictable patterns of relationships among observable phenomena.

Much of my own earlier training was in mathematics, a subject which is essentially a mental one. In mathematics it is imperative to clearly frame the question being asked so as to see a way through to the necessary relationships which determine the relevant conditions. A lack of precision in a question can lead to invalid, or contradictory approaches in the resultant mathematics.

Thus in dealing with questions relating to the mind or mental phenomena, precision in the statement of the questions is essential, as is a clear understanding of what those questions are. Knowledge is itself a mental phenomena. It is not "an observable" but the very cognitive basis of observation. This is also true of the understanding of experience & perception. The ability to thoroughly and accurately analyze mental phenomena such as these is essential to understanding there nature as mental phenomena.

Understanding as it relates to the mind is subjective in a way which is inescapably bound with its subject matter. Physical sciences, at least to many, appear to be somewhat at a remove wherein many of its practitioners believe they can ignore such issues as "unnecessarily philosophic", although by doing so they are at the loss for their own completeness of understanding.


Mark A. Baker

You need to relax

 

[Panda Termint]

You need to relax

Telling someone that usually makes them tense.