On being Exterior, your views ?

[Pepin]

Perhaps he's the only one of us who really feels like rehashing it.

You're creating something called "rehash"

 

[Pepin]

Except for the simple observation, U, that I'm not the one who starts these things. Nor am I especially interested in lengthy, heated arguments over the matter. My primary interest in these threads, such as it is, lies in clearing up the many popular misconceptions about philosophy, spirituality, the nature of mind, and subjective experience generally.

I learned long ago not to confuse considerations of "measurable phenomena" as being "objective reality". ALL knowledge is "of the mind", and as such it is innately subjective.

Additionally, I might add, you seem always to be quite eager to "enter the fray".


Mark A. Baker

I have discovered that in my heart, I know things my mind cannot comprehend.

 

[uniquemand]

I'd say your "heart" is created by your mind. Unless you are talking about the organ that sends blood around your body. Didn't seem like it.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I have discovered that in my heart, I know things my mind cannot comprehend.

Which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Pascal.

Le cœur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connaît point. On le sent en mille choses. C'est le cœur qui sent Dieu, et non la raison. Voilà ce que c'est que la foi parfaite, Dieu sensible au cœur.


The heart has its reasons, which reason does not know. We feel it in a thousand things. I say that the heart naturally loves the Universal Being, and also itself naturally, according as it gives itself to them; and it hardens itself against one or the other at its will. You have rejected the one, and kept the other. Is it by reason that you love yourself?

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal

Mark A. Baker

 

[Hatshepsut]

I have discovered that in my heart, I know things my mind cannot comprehend.

And too often we ignore it.

 

[Pepin]

And too often we ignore it.

Yes! The flawed mind often gets in the way

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Yes! The flawed mind often gets in the way

As does the flawed body.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Pepin]

Which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Pascal.

Mark A. Baker

hmmm. I translate that as:


The heart has its reasons, that the reason does not know. We feel in a thousand things. It is the heart which feels God, and not the reason. Here is what it is that the faith perfect, God sensitive to heart.

~p

 

[I told you I was trouble]

This is from the 'Stably exterior with full perception' thread of 2007:

Originally Posted by Alan

Possibly this was my most embarrassing incident to do with LRH.

It occured on the Original Class VIII course, in Oct 1968.

We were docked in Corfu, a small Greek Island halfway between Greece and Italy.

Each night at 8.00 p.m. LRH gave a lecture.

We were in the main dining room which doubled as the lecture room. Behind LRH were the picture windows facing out to the docks across the way.

Thus there were an approx 300 of the upper level SO Staff and Class VIII students crammed into this room - facing Hubbard and Mary-Sue who sat alongside LRH - so except for LRH and MSH we all viewed the activities outside the windows.

Each night at around 8.30 pm there was a ferry from Corfu to Brindisi that would leave. It was very punctual. There was a lot of clanging and banging and the reving of engines and the ferry would come chugging past us - the sounds are probably still on the tapes.

Of course this pissed LRH off - he would turn and glare at the offending ferry boat.

Any way one night at the exact time there was the usual clanging and banging and the reving of engines the chugging past us noise.

LRH does not turn his head but stares straight us and proceeds to give us how he is exterior with full perceptics - and describes the ferry, etc. He was really puffed up with his ability to demonstrate his exterior with full perceptics.

The only problem was that night a tug boat towing a garbage scow was what went past the windows.

We all witnessed it - the emperor was naked!!!

There was deathly silence in the room - the room went very solid. No one looked at another.

Later on only Fred Fairchild, Nev Chamberlin and I dare speak about it. But every staff member and future Class VIII were given a major withhold that night.

Alan

Thank-you for digging this up Veda ... it really does say it all.

Hubbard lovers ... snap out of it.

 

[Pepin]

I'd say your "heart" is created by your mind. Unless you are talking about the organ that sends blood around your body. Didn't seem like it.

So, If YOU lost your mind, You would be dead.

 

[paradox]

....

Hubbard lovers ... snap out of it.

No kidding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY&feature=related

 

[LongTimeGone]

Stick a AA battery in your head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=12

http://blog.planetpreterist.com/index.php?itemid=1493

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/health/webmd/main3439659.shtml

D.

 

[uniquemand]

So, If YOU lost your mind, You would be dead.

The entity that people know now would be dead. There are mindless bodies. It's called a persistent vegetative state. However, as long as the nervous system is not irreparably damaged, I think it's possible to recover from a lot.

I've been declared dead. During those periods, I have exactly zero recall. Nothing. Somehow, I was jumpstarted again, three times. In each case, it was like being the terminator: suddenly, I was "online" again, though not all of my faculties were there, immediately. However, I became intensely aware that we can turn "off". At that point there is no suffering, because there is simply nothing. No light at the end of the tunnel. No angels. No nothing.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Exterior with group agreement...? Nov. 11th....

http://www.newrealitytransmission.com/

Nov. 11th, 11:11pm for 11 minutes.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The entity that people know now would be dead. There are mindless bodies. It's called a persistent vegetative state. However, as long as the nervous system is not irreparably damaged, I think it's possible to recover from a lot.

I've been declared dead. During those periods, I have exactly zero recall. Nothing. Somehow, I was jumpstarted again, three times. In each case, it was like being the terminator: suddenly, I was "online" again, though not all of my faculties were there, immediately. However, I became intensely aware that we can turn "off". At that point there is no suffering, because there is simply nothing. No light at the end of the tunnel. No angels. No nothing.

You might want to read this book, U.

Consciousness Beyond Life: The Science of the Near-Death Experience [Hardcover]
Pim Van Lommel

Among other topics is an excellent discussion of the medical effects of resuscitation on the brain and how it relates to consciousness and the observed differences between NDE'ers & non-NDE'ers.


Mark A. Baker

 

[uniquemand]

Thanks for the book idea. Maybe I can find an online copy. I'm living pretty close to the bone right now, can't be buying books unrelated to school. Can you give me a synopsis?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Thanks for the book idea. Maybe I can find an online copy. I'm living pretty close to the bone right now, can't be buying books unrelated to school. Can you give me a synopsis?

Not really. He covers a lot of material. Try grabbing a coffee at starbucks and browsing a while at Barnes & Noble.


Mark A. Baker

 

[uniquemand]

nevermind, I read it at Amazon. Interesting. I have recollection of experience during the coma period, but those periods were interrupted with total blankness. The experience during the coma period was extremely frightening. I cannot say if this was due to something real that was happening, or due to the opiates that I was under the influence of for pain control. I have read a little bit about sensory deprivation experiences, and I would say that my coma experience was very similar to people who have experienced long periods of sensory deprivation. However, most people do those tanks for periods of only a few hours, whereas my coma was about three weeks. They are aware that they can stop it at any point, whereas I was pretty sure the ending was going to be death. Sorry to be grim, but that's my recollection.

It does make a degree of sense that consciousness is non-local, and that therefore death in one timeline doesn't equate to death in all timelines. I definitely had the feeling, when I woke up, that I was in a different universe, the one where I lived, and where things turned out okay. I had the feeling I'd had a reprieve.

 

[Veda]

Possibly this was my most embarrassing incident to do with LRH.

It occured on the Original Class VIII course, in Oct 1968.

We were docked in Corfu, a small Greek Island halfway between Greece and Italy.

Each night at 8.00 p.m. LRH gave a lecture.

We were in the main dining room which doubled as the lecture room. Behind LRH were the picture windows facing out to the docks across the way.

Thus there were an approx 300 of the upper level SO Staff and Class VIII students crammed into this room - facing Hubbard and Mary-Sue who sat alongside LRH - so except for LRH and MSH we all viewed the activities outside the windows.

Each night at around 8.30 pm there was a ferry from Corfu to Brindisi that would leave. It was very punctual. There was a lot of clanging and banging and the reving of engines and the ferry would come chugging past us - the sounds are probably still on the tapes.

Of course this pissed LRH off - he would turn and glare at the offending ferry boat.

Any way one night at the exact time there was the usual clanging and banging and the reving of engines the chugging past us noise.

LRH does not turn his head but stares straight us and proceeds to give us how he is exterior with full perceptics - and describes the ferry, etc. He was really puffed up with his ability to demonstrate his exterior with full perceptics.

The only problem was that night a tug boat towing a garbage scow was went past the windows.

We all witnessed it - the emperor was naked!!!

There was deathly silence in the room - the room went very solid. No one looked at another.

Later on only Fred Fairchild, Nev Chamberlin and I dare speak about it. But every staff member and future Class VIII were given a major withhold that night.

Alan

Thank-you for digging this up Veda ... it really does say it all.

Hubbard lovers ... snap out of it.

Here's as close as I can come to a consolidation of posts/threads having to do with "exteriorization." There is some redundancy:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20385

 

[programmer_guy]

Correctamundo!

A word that I have never used, and hope never to use in the future.

It was a word used by "The Fonz" in the TV show "Happy Days".