On journalists joining the Sea Org

Sindy

Crusader
I've been researching Scientology from the inside as an active "parishioner" on and off for the past few years, having thus far trained and audited up to Grade II. I've kept a daily journal of my observations and experiences, and while I've collected a massive amount of very interesting and original material, I still haven't much that I'd say would provide much insight into daily life in the Sea Org. I've been regged constantly to join the SO and so far I've been able to resist the temptation to go through with it all the way - I have done the application (along with meter check and OCA/IQ/Aptitude/Leadership tests) a few times during this time and was able to pass, but I avoided signing the contract and routing into the EPF since covertly researching Scientology as a public is obviously very different and less risky than doing that as an SO member.

I'm not worried about the meter checks, since the meter never seems to catch me when I lie (about having done drugs, for example, or having worked as a journalist), and I'm not even worried about the background check since they've had my SS# on file and I know for a fact they've pulled my records (only once, the second time I filled out an application). Getting caught doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, since it'd likely just result in being thrown out and declared an SP. What does worry me is making mistakes that would prevent me from getting promoted into those SO orgs where the major problems and abuses are carried out. Ideally this would mean working at Int Base, but this seems highly unlikely and almost impossible at this point.

Has any journalist or writer investigated the SO from within within the last 10 or 20 years (as a member) that would provide some help in this? Any thoughts on outlining a strategy or words of advice?

You mean as an undercover journalist, going up against an organization whose intelligence has been likened to that of the CIA or greater, you didn't have a better plan in place before going in than to give them your actual SS#?

I hope you have back-up. Have you checked the various laws in regards to impersonating on private property, taking video, audio, etc? Hey, I'm all for undercover work but it seems that would require one to be lawyered up to the likes of a huge network news outlet. If you're for real, I don't mean to discourage you, only to ask the obvious questions.

In addition, if you think that there is ANY privacy in the SO, even with those who are in outer orgs, you are sorely mistaken. No way. The most "free" are the fundraisers/registrars as out of necessity they must be accessible to the public however, the numbers get changed often because SPs like us blow and have their phone numbers on speed dial. Phones also get switched a lot and before I left, text messaging was canceled and forbidden. The only people allowed to text were OSA staff.

These guys may seem free to use all their technology while off their bases but they get pulled into sec checking like every 4 to 6 weeks. When they do get back to the base, everything is gone through, all the brief cases, cell phones, laptops, etc.

How do I know this? Well, as I have already reported here, an SO member (when I was out of the room) went through all the photos on my cell phone and then confronted me about having a naked picture of my husband on my phone. I was so pissed. He then told me that there is no privacy in the SO, every nook and cranny is invaded and so that is why he thought it was okay to do that to me as a Class V org staff member.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
You don't need to go that extreme. I few minutes practice with someone (while you watch the e-meter) and you can cause it to "float" whenever you like.

right but that demands some time, 5m valium is easy

and going into meditative trance state, a mild hypnosis, always makes your needle float too...
 

Sindy

Crusader
I've been researching Scientology from the inside as an active "parishioner" on and off for the past few years, having thus far trained and audited up to Grade II. I've kept a daily journal of my observations and experiences, and while I've collected a massive amount of very interesting and original material, I still haven't much that I'd say would provide much insight into daily life in the Sea Org. I've been regged constantly to join the SO and so far I've been able to resist the temptation to go through with it all the way - I have done the application (along with meter check and OCA/IQ/Aptitude/Leadership tests) a few times during this time and was able to pass, but I avoided signing the contract and routing into the EPF since covertly researching Scientology as a public is obviously very different and less risky than doing that as an SO member.

I'm not worried about the meter checks, since the meter never seems to catch me when I lie (about having done drugs, for example, or having worked as a journalist), and I'm not even worried about the background check since they've had my SS# on file and I know for a fact they've pulled my records (only once, the second time I filled out an application). Getting caught doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, since it'd likely just result in being thrown out and declared an SP. What does worry me is making mistakes that would prevent me from getting promoted into those SO orgs where the major problems and abuses are carried out. Ideally this would mean working at Int Base, but this seems highly unlikely and almost impossible at this point.

Has any journalist or writer investigated the SO from within within the last 10 or 20 years (as a member) that would provide some help in this? Any thoughts on outlining a strategy or words of advice?

Let me pull my Data Series out of my holster and call Contrary Facts...:biggrin:

Let me ask you, in addition to the meter check and OCA/IQ/Aptitude/Leadership tests, did you also do the mandatory Life History questionnaire?
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Maybe it's just my suspicious mind ticking over but ....:hmm:

WHY would anyone ask for a "how to infiltrate the SO" on an open chat board?:confused2:

There are folks who've joined the SO, got in there and gone "wtf?" and provided lots of good info to "us" before finally blowing. All of whom have the "right" intention when they signed up.:yes:

There are also those still in nominally who provide some of "us" with inside info on the innermost goings-on in Davey's Navy. And the OP seems like a pathetic attempt to flush out some "data" on that. :roflmao:

Sorry, I could well be wrong but I don't buy it - you may not be selling a Bridge, but you certainly seem to live under one.
 

idrizomare

Patron with Honors
At this stage, I'm thinking the "undercover journalist" is just a troll wasting our time.

It would be so cool if that were true. And if OSA searched everywhere in vain for this Scarlet Pimpernel.

They seek him here,
they seek him there.
The OSA seeks him everywhere.
Is he in heaven? Or is he in hell?
That damned elusive,
Pimpernel.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Has any journalist or writer investigated the SO from within within the last 10 or 20 years (as a member) that would provide some help in this? Any thoughts on outlining a strategy or words of advice?

I don't know of any journalist or writer, but a couple years ago I knew an upper level someone who flew to LA for a sec check (you have had one of those as a Grade II haven't you) and an OSA ethics handling and came back with an incredible (to me anyways) story. :nervous:

He learned that Mike R, Marty R, and Debbie C, all three, were actually plants that were sent in decades ago to bring down or destroy the COS. They were subsequently discovered and thrown out. :omg:

I kid you not. :yes:

Some people actually believe this.
yes.gif


This was in response to me grilling him about how could the top COS execs get auditing and training at the highest levels by the RTC for 30 or 40 years and end up so disaffected, sour, and presumably "psycho" (per COS statements).

Plants . . . it worked for him. :confused2: Just fine.

So I'd give up on your journalistic quest. They know about infiltration and plants and will be waiting for you (after having been royally burned by those three recently). :yes:

If you insist on learning more, buy a plane ticket or two and go interview Marty and Mike.

You'll find out everything you need to know for a story or book.

(Or you can even ask them how they managed to infiltrate in decades ago. Maybe they can "outline a strategy" for you, as you put it.) :biggrin:

In fact, Marty may need an editor or co-author very soon. He may be working on his magnum opus, Book III, about now.

You can help him put the whole 60-year saga "in proper context" for us mere mortals. :coolwink:

My advice: do something with a better purpose with your life.

Best of luck.
 
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Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Welcome Undercover,

I feel that project like yours is fascinating and would be a very exciting and informative read. I've never been in the church - but I have learned so much from reading and researching that it can become a minor obsession. Just the other day I had the idea of walking into the Org near where I live and asking for some information...but I just assumed that there are cameras around and I didn't feel right about that. All the books that I've read are about people who believed and then left after feeling disillusioned. I don't know if there is a book out there from someone who has deliberately gone in to infiltrate....

My concern is that you might be able to clear a few sec checks, and fool some of the higher ups, but what if you got sent to the RPF? Someone who has experience within the church, and particularly most recently, may be able to address this but it seems to me that this is a very dangerous time, especially under David Miscavige, where anything goes. I read one account where a woman was on the RPF because her desk wasn't tidy during some inspection. She kept getting one infraction after another while she was there and ended up staying a total of 7 years. I can't think of a bigger nightmare than being caught and for whatever reason, being unable to leave.

I think the general public has a hard time believing that someone would try to leave and would be forcibly restrained. Some people just can't fathom that in America. Yet, Jesse Prince talks about it happening in the 70's when he was in the Sea Org and he was made to stay in against his will for a year and a half.

Good luck with your pursuit. One thing I have learned since I've been here. I always thinking I know about Scientology, but it always seems to go deeper and scarier than I imagined...I admire your courage, but make sure you know what you're messing around with.
 
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Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Someone who was in the SO for years and recently left would have a far better view and understanding of things than a relatively new infiltrator.

The only things that I see you could possibly bring to the mix are:

1. A totally up-to-date view of how things are from the inside (somewhat) in 2013.
2. Any credibility you may have already established as a non-Scio journalist for some kind of reputable outlet.
3. AUDIO/VIDEO of the inside!

1 & 2 are pretty meh. #3 is the biggie and very rare, apart from events/fundraisers etc. Videos of normal, everyday face-ripping staff meetings or product conferences would be good. :)

Paul

There was that expose/news show in England that got a woman inside as a public Scientologist. She wore a wire and had a hidden camera and got as far as Saint Hill where they were recruiting her into the Sea Org before they busted her ass. I agree, up to date stuff would be amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9bCdHqU3s
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
What's so darn special about the Sea Org? They take anybody with a pulse. Apologies to anybody who felt "special" for being "chosen", but look at the evidence: Scientology makes overtures to every non-celebrity under 55, seeking to get them (and their children) into the cult paramilitary.

If Scientology truly had a million or more adherents, it might mean something to be in the Sea Org, because it would be rare. Instead, what you're looking at is a small, shrinking cult that is trying to keep on pretending in Clearwater, at Gold and at Stain Hill. Instead of 5,000 'most dedicated' cult victims in pretend Star Trek uniforms, out of millions, it's 5,000 out of maybe 40,000 worldwide. That's one person in eight. As Scientology victims continue to educate themselves and get out, the ratio continues to shrink, because those who continue to pretend that all is well in the large Scientology bases maintain the illusion by drawing people from elsewhere.

Scientology is a product of L Ron Hubbard's mental illness, and the Sea Org is a reflection of his ideal world. He didn't just want worshippers; he wanted playthings that he controlled utterly. A New World Order under Scientology would see the the majority of people in uniform, and subject to a pseudo-military code of conduct. That Sea Org people don't make effective workers is neither here nor there: Hubbard simply wanted a mass of people under orders, and subject to strict discipline. Preferably living in misery, for his benefit: Thelema at work. The cult will welcome you with open arms if you, too, want to join the masochistic science fiction role-playing game.

What you would discover that would interest a newspaper is another question: most of the loony stuff is already known, and everything leaks out sooner or later. Consider the 'musical chairs' episode.

If you insist on going through with this scheme... get yourself a second passport - it's legal to have one. Do not surrender the second one to the cult, but leave it and your other stuff with a non-cult friend. Also deposit some money with a bank where you can withdraw money from an ATM, in emergency, without the card.

Leave everything behind. You won't want to have personal possessions in the Sea Org anyway; theft is rife. Agree a plan to remain in contact with somebody, and a phrase (e.g. "how's the dog?") that you will use in every phone call. If you omit it, it signifies that you're under duress, and if you fail to use the phrase or fail to get in touch for 'x' weeks, your family and friends are to call the FBI.

Finally, expect to be bored. Expect to be bored sh*tless, doing pointless things for long hours, and surrounded by 'friends' who will happily betray your every infraction, while believing they are doing the 'right thing'. This is all part of the game that Hubbard set up, but is now too dead to be amused by. Life in the Sea Org will suck balls, whether you're a dedicated cultie or a self-made "secret agent". Also, don't you think there are other people who have already been 'in' for years and have worked their way into positions of trust? How can you be sure you won't be wasting your time? Somebody else might blow the lid off the Sea Org a year from now, while you're still cleaning dumpsters with a toothbrush and haven't seen a single interesting file.

Nothing good ever happened to a person that went into an Org. If the org you choose is the Sea Org, well... my advice is: don't.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think the general public has a hard time believing that someone would try to leave and would be forcibly restrained. Some people just can't fathom that in America.

I've said this before and I'll say it again ... .

While I was never actually forcibly restrained, they did take my luggage as I was trying to leave Flag and had locked it up in a room. (I was a public there.) While I did get it back after about an hour of intense extend-your-stay talk, I found it very threatening.

They finally got me to give them a return-by date, which I promptly forgot about after boarding the shuttle and leaving.
I never saw Flag again. :footbullet:

Helena
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
I've said this before and I'll say it again ... .

While I was never actually forcibly restrained, they did take my luggage as I was trying to leave Flag and had locked it up in a room. (I was a public there.) While I did get it back after about an hour of intense extend-your-stay talk, I found it very threatening.

They finally got me to give them a return-by date, which I promptly forgot about after boarding the shuttle and leaving.
I never saw Flag again. :footbullet:

Helena


Wow. I assumed for what I've read that people are forcibly restrained occasionally in intense auditing sessions, that there is a TR that teaches you how to keep someone from leaving a room, and that people have been forced to stay in extended auditing sessions and sec checks or gang bang sec checks where they couldn't leave or were forced onto the RPF. I'm talking about Jesse Prince and Debbie Cook in particular.
 
Wow. I assumed for what I've read that people are forcibly restrained occasionally in intense auditing sessions, that there is a TR that teaches you how to keep someone from leaving a room, and that people have been forced to stay in extended auditing sessions and sec checks or gang bang sec checks where they couldn't leave or were forced onto the RPF. I'm talking about Jesse Prince and Debbie Cook in particular.

TRs O-4 used to be taught on the Basic Comm Course I think.
On the next course up, Hubbard Qualified Scientologist TRs-0-8, plus other stuff was taught. The HQS is really a basic course too. You do not have to have done any Dianetics training or to have had any auditing.

Those 8 TRs are what is used to help enforce ALL the pressure. In Reg interviews and day to day demanding, and the "screaming at people" that you hear about.
In "book and bottle" you learn how to physically enforce a person to do something, supposedly to help if a pc does not carry out your command. It is similar to "bullbaiting" when it is drilled, in as much as the student gives a command to his training partner and the partner must at some point refuse to do it. Then the student must physically enforce the command.
In The "ashtray TR" (TR8?) the students yells at the astray, using "intention without reservation or limit, (tone 40). Notice that whether or not the command is possible or impossible etc, does not come into it. So for staff and SO learning these, it's about power without regard to other factors.
Anyway my point here is that these TRs are used all day, every day, by staff. It is THERE that they learn how to apply pressure, and how to "hold" people there, using actual physical force or a very dominating determination.
 

Loohan

Am I Mettaya?
Wow. I assumed for what I've read that people are forcibly restrained occasionally in intense auditing sessions, that there is a TR that teaches you how to keep someone from leaving a room, and that people have been forced to stay in extended auditing sessions and sec checks or gang bang sec checks where they couldn't leave or were forced onto the RPF. I'm talking about Jesse Prince and Debbie Cook in particular.

Yes, at least on the objective processes, some of which are very similar to Upper Indoc TRs, one is supposed to physically prevent the PC from leaving.
In fact i had to run this objective which is almost identical to TR-9 as i recall, on a very hyper, rambunctious, obnoxious kid. His mother was at wit's end with him. And he kept trying to slip away, sometimes successfully, and having to be chased after and dragged back by me. He was like 8 or 9 maybe.

I never saw him after that, but later his mom said he was much easier to be around. Not sure if i broke him like a horse or helped him.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
XB,

You should sign up for a communications course and experience the TRs for yourself.

I kid, of course.

TG1
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
XB,

You should sign up for a communications course and experience the TRs for yourself.

I kid, of course.

TG1

You know, TG1, don't think I haven't thought about it!

Listening to you all, I've sometimes thought that maybe I could get the "best" that Scientology had to offer, maybe a few basics - take the knowledge and run before the "bad" stuff happens. A lot of people have talked about the Communications course helping them, even Jerry Seinfeld, I think.

Then there is the other piece that some people say, which is if you want to famous - Scientology has the keys to manipulate things and make your dreams come true.

Still, even if it could help, it would be like in those movies where someone sells his soul to the devil to get what he wants. Maybe you do get jobs and even get rich - but look at Travolta. I sometimes think he would love to leave the church and never look back - but he can't. Wright even says in the book, they took Jett off his medicine for his autism - hard to talk about Scientology being partly responsible for the death of his son.

I did try the staring exercise with a friend, we did it for 1/2 hour and it was awesome and trippy. He ended up kissing me and he's supposedly straight, but that's another story.

I'd trust taking the comm course it was offered by a squirrel, but I just can't deal with paying money to this group under COB, knowing where it is going and what he's doing.

I guess I'm just going to have to suck at communicating for awhile. Although I did flirt with an ashtray yesterday. I told her she was "smokin" hot.

Okay, sorry. That was awful.
 
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