On making the Scientology Purification Rundown safe and acceptable

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow I am so WRONG and you are SO RIGHT! Natural vitamins are food period.

Bzzzt! Wrong. Thanks for playing our game.

Not.

Nowadays, everything from bottled water to orange juice seems to have souped-up levels of vitamins and minerals in it. That may sound like a way to help cover your nutritional bases, especially if your diet is less than stellar.

But are you in danger of getting too much of these important nutrients? And can these overloads hurt you?


Yes, if you're routinely taking megadoses. For instance, too much vitamin C or zinc could cause nausea, diarrhea, and stomach cramps. Too much selenium could lead to problems including hair loss, gastrointestinal upset, fatigue, and mild nerve damage.


Most people aren't getting megadoses. Still, if you eat a fortified cereal at breakfast, grab an energy bar between meals, have enriched pasta for dinner, and take a daily multivitamin, you could easily be over the recommended daily intake of a host of nutrients.


When it comes to vitamins and minerals, more is not necessarily better.

Food can be medicinal. I follow quite a few medicinal recipes in Chinese cooking. I think some work, some are bollocks. I stay away from excessive soy, despite its long tradition in the East.

But I will say this one last time. The difference between a medicine and a poison is the dose.

Why do you think the term "overdose" exists in the first place?

Yes, I am right and you are wrong. This is not a case of what's true for me. This is a case of thousands of clinical trials, hundreds of smart people looking at the data, and my own ability to interpret that data based on my doctorate and 17 year experience studying human health. Your qualifications are?


Toxic Vitamin A in India was a UNICEF project. No data if it was synthetic or natural.
Same thing with Niacin. Very vague and no details.
One death on B-complex! Again no data.

Ah. Very nice demonstration in that classic quack logical fallacy of moving the goalposts.

First, you knew of no deaths from vitamins.

Now, there might be some deaths, but they aren't natural vitamins.

Moving the goalposts mixed with the natural fallacy.

Chemically, for most vitamins, including Vitamin A, there is no structural difference between the synthetic form and "natural" form - otherwise the packaging, even under the weakened FDA powers to regulate supplements, the label would not say "Vitamin X", but something different. A good example is Vitamin D. Ever see the term D3 or D2 on the labels? D2 is not the active form, it is converted to D3 by the enmzyme that converts natural D2 in food to D3 you can use. It can be given at higher doses than D3 and sticks around the body longer. D3 is the only supplement I take daily, because I don't have a huge deficiency. D2 supplements are prescribed for severe deficiencies, but for only short term.

But D2 and D3 both occur in nature, and both can be synthesized. There is absolutely no chemical difference between natural and synthetic. That is what chemical nomenclature means. Look at the label of a naturally derived vitamin versus a synthetic one. It will be identical. Because at least the FDA has the power to make sure that vitamins are pure, if not safe and effective. All the other junk in a plant has to be either eliminated by purification, or put on the label.

Before you move the goddamn goalposts again, let me say that the myth of needing cofactors for all these vitamins, and for natural sources to contain these cofators when synthetic ones don't, is just that, a myth. In fact, many vitamins ARE cofactors. That's why you need them - to make your body's natural enzymes work!

Next, there is the purity myth. Synthetic vitamins are regularly inspected for purity. There are no chemical precursors allowed to be left in the product that is sold. However, there is a huge problem with pesticide residues in natural products. Personally, given the lack of regulation, I'd rather take the synthetic version, especially since a lot of the "natural" versions have provenance in China. Does melamine ring a bell?

OK, where do you want to move the goalposts, now?

But you keep informing us how bad the Purif is and it is not. The Purif is not dangerous and you need a medical exam before anyone can do it. Yet you work in an industry that has done more harm to humans (and the environment) in the name of help more than Ron could do in 100 lifetimes. I know two people who died horribly from pharma drug concoctions and cost them over $100,000.00 just to stay alive.

Please pm me your name when I DROP MY BODY I want to make sure that you will not get one my organs. You would probably get sick because they are to pure:)

Bullshit.

Real adults, as opposed to mental children, look at benefit / risk. I just finished a course of anti-biotics for a severe sinus and lung infection. Those anti-biotics have side effects - I could not exercise as I wanted to because they weaken tendons. If I'd torn my achilles while on them, would that be evidence of harm done by the manufacturers? FUCK no! I got pneumonia once from this kind of shit because I was traveling and could not get to a doc. I'll take those tendon risks any time over getting that shit again. My WBC count was so high even after 2 courses of anti-biotics they thought I had cancer.

I don't know any details about your "cases", so I'm calling bullshit. You just made them up. Give me details of disease, diagnosis and treatment, or STFU. Because that kind of harm can happen, but it happens from powerful meds used to treat really nasty diseases. Cancer meds and radiation can kill you. Want to forego them when you get a neoplasm? Be my guest. HIV meds have horrific side effects. See how long you live without them if you get infected. Rheumatoid arthritis meds can cause cancer. So can the the disease. And people who take the meds and keep their RA under control, despite the toxic side effects, live on average 10 years longer than those who don't. But some of those who do take them are going to get a nasty infection or a cancer that is probably due to the drug, not the disease. People take the meds anyway because the odds are in their favor for benefit.

Mental children cherry pick. Adults look at risk and benefit.

The problem with the Purif is the unregulated use of massive overdoses of vitamins and saunas. The risks far outweigh the benefits, especially when the alleged benefits have been shown to be biochemically impossible.
 
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MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Any thoughts on this... At the time Perez Hilton (yes not a great source) ran with the idea that the Purif was causing the purple hands. Whatcha think Udarnik?

kate-holmes-purple-hands.jpg
 

bromo

Patron with Honors
That is what I call knowing how to know, real world standards that U just stated. My last late husband died of pancreatic cancer. I learned more than I ever wanted to know about chemo drugs and clinical trials during the 11 months between his diagnosis and death. I continued to learn as I lobbied with others like me to Congress for passage of a bipartisan bill to increase funding for research for pancreatic cancer which was expanded to include other recalcitrant cancers (which I happily report was passed and signed into law by the President on Jan.2, 2013.) REAL research, REAL studies, REAL statistics - those are what I rely on for the information I need to make an informed decision about my health and the health of those I love, not some spewings of a crazed, greedy narcissist who knew next to nothing about what he rambled on about and actually caused harm to many of those who followed him. A current scientologist can claim all the wins he wants but, for me, I will take my wins from an educated and dedicated person like Udarnik and his peers who really know how to know because they dedicate their life to learning and study.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Any thoughts on this... At the time Perez Hilton (yes not a great source) ran with the idea that the Purif was causing the purple hands. Whatcha think Udarnik?

kate-holmes-purple-hands.jpg

Blotchy, sometimes purple skin is sometimes a symptom of Vitamin K overdose. The link Panda cited does not give any vitamin details except for Niacin. Is Vitamin K part of the Purif?

With Niacin overdose, the skin color should be red. With other B vitamin overdose or Beta carotene / Vitamin A, the skin would be yellow or orange.

Blue / purple is pretty rare. Anyone else here seen this in the Purif? Or know what else might cause the blue skin? Eggplant plus the essential oils?

I'm grasping at straws, here, I really don't have a clue.
 

Leland

Crusader
Blotchy, sometimes purple skin is sometimes a symptom of Vitamin K overdose. The link Panda cited does not give any vitamin details except for Niacin. Is Vitamin K part of the Purif?

With Niacin overdose, the skin color should be red. With other B vitamin overdose or Beta carotene / Vitamin A, the skin would be yellow or orange.

Blue / purple is pretty rare. Anyone else here seen this in the Purif? Or know what else might cause the blue skin? Eggplant plus the essential oils?

I'm grasping at straws, here, I really don't have a clue.

Colloidal silver can.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Nope, no vitamin K, maybe some trace of it in some multi-vits but I doubt it had any effect. The "purple hands story" is a media beat-up, in my opinion. She probably dyed her hair without using plastic gloves, lol.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
That is what I call knowing how to know, real world standards that U just stated. My last late husband died of pancreatic cancer. I learned more than I ever wanted to know about chemo drugs and clinical trials during the 11 months between his diagnosis and death. I continued to learn as I lobbied with others like me to Congress for passage of a bipartisan bill to increase funding for research for pancreatic cancer which was expanded to include other recalcitrant cancers (which I happily report was passed and signed into law by the President on Jan.2, 2013.) REAL research, REAL studies, REAL statistics - those are what I rely on for the information I need to make an informed decision about my health and the health of those I love, not some spewings of a crazed, greedy narcissist who knew next to nothing about what he rambled on about and actually caused harm to many of those who followed him. A current scientologist can claim all the wins he wants but, for me, I will take my wins from an educated and dedicated person like Udarnik and his peers who really know how to know because they dedicate their life to learning and study.

Thanks, bromo. While I do not deny that the medical device and pharmaceutical industries do occasionally engage in unethical behavior, the regulatory system put into place to keep the bean counters and marketers in check works pretty well.

And the doctors in both the FDA and the medical industry do take their ethics seriously. I was in on a clinical trial design meeting once where the lead clinician actually stopped and said "would we put our mother's on this drug?".

The unanimous answer was "yes". And the funny thing? A year or so later we got a new biologist on the team. Her mother had the disease and had failed pretty much everything. She went to one of the clinical research sites and met the criteria for entry. The intervention worked spectacularly for her.

This is why I do what I do, but it was unusual even for me to get such a personal connection to what I was doing.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
And the doctors in both the FDA and the medical industry do take their ethics seriously.
Yeah, a little too seriously.. I'm still waiting for my script but I am having trouble finding an evil Psych.

Hey, can any of you Scientoligists give me a referral?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I read recently that Iatrogenic Illness/Disease is the Number 1 cause of death in the USA. Anyone know if this is actually true?
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
I read recently that Iatrogenic Illness/Disease is the Number 1 cause of death in the USA. Anyone know if this is actually true?

Eighth highest cause of death.

That sounds horrible, but you have to remember that a significant proportion of those people were in the hospital for very serious illnesses. A slight overdose in meds won't kill me, but would have killed my 98 year old FIL when he was in for his final illness.

Not that we should not work to eliminate medical errors, but this kind of statistic should not keep people from seeing a doc. What it should do is remind you to take an active role in managing any medical problems you do have, and in double-checking your doc and pharmacist.

I was involved in a clinical study that had sites in India. In general, the FDA assumes that all adverse events are drug related, even if it's unlikely they are. In this case, one of our events was ruled non-related. One Indian patient went in for heart surgery, the surgeon left a sponge in the patient, and when they took the patient off the respirator, the patient sucked in the sponge with his first breath and asphyxiated!

Shit happens...
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Here is a HCO that appears to spell it out: http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientol...UTRITIONAL VITAMIN INCREASES PURIF 140280.doc

Here is someone selling the Purif Pack.. http://www.vitaminscatalog.com/purif-pack.html


10550-L-boxopen.jpg

PURIF PACK
The Purif Pack is a special pack used for Detoxification Programs.
This pack gives you the vitamins and minerals that you need to do a Sauna Detoxification Program. Also you would need the All Blend Oil.


Product Code: 10550
Quantity: 1 Pack
Qty: Price: $169.99





Vitamin A & D 100 tabs
Vitamin B complex 50 100 tabs
Vitamin B1 100 mg 100 caps
Vitamin B1 500 mg 100 caps
Niacin 100 mg 100 tabs
Niacin 500 mg (fast-dissolving tablets) 100 tabs
Vitamin C 300 caps
VItamin E 400 IU 100 tabs
Chelated Mega Mineras Complex 100 tabs
Chelated Minerals and Trace Minerals 100 tabs
Sea Salts 100 tabs
Potasium Gluconate 100 tabs
Cell Salts 1,000 tabs
Calcium Gluconate 16 oz.
Magnesium Carbonate 8 oz.
Granular soy Lecithin 16 oz

and here is the oil

10855-L.jpg

ALL BLEND OIL 490 ML
490 ML
Nutrina’s All-Blend Oil is a mixture of truly cold-pressed oils from soy beans, safflower seeds, walnuts, and peanuts. It is a delicious salad oil which also is an excellent source of poly-unsaturated essential fatty acids.

Product Code: 10855
Quantity: 490 ML
Qty: Price: $24.70
 
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anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Any thoughts on this... At the time Perez Hilton (yes not a great source) ran with the idea that the Purif was causing the purple hands. Whatcha think Udarnik?

kate-holmes-purple-hands.jpg

There was an instant tan product I used a few of years ago that was made with some veggie dyes rather than the usual cosmetic product (that I didn't want to use because of the hideous instant tan smell). I didn't soap my hands thoroughly afterwards and had a very similar colour appear on the bits I had missed. Oddly my legs turned more brown than blue, at least that part of me looked normal.

She might have fallen and bruised her hand badly? Which would lead me to suspect the next photo in that series would show her giving Tom a hard smack around the ear for holding her sore hand so tightly. I would have paid to see that one.

I suspect a photoshop filter was used to amplify an odd shadow or lighting on the pic just to make a story.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I vote we just stop with this -going to doctors and taking medicine - lark. My god, they are killing us wholesale!
I want the good old days.

What a fun time for all, we all could all swap family stories of TB, smallpox, polio. The laughs we could have as we remember all of our female relatives who died in childbirth and how many siblings we would have had if they had lived past 2. Those funerals would be a blast, great family get-togethers after the flu season was past.

I yearn for the days when an achy tooth was quickly and safely removed outside barber shops, the pain doesn't last more than a few days and the infections would be a real test of character. Not to mention kidney stones!

Uncle Arthur would be quite happy in a nice warm supportive environment far away from lithium and the modern evils of psych poison.
525px-Francisco_Goya_-_Casa_de_locos.jpg

Yes, please. let's go back to better time.
 
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