On the Subject of Knowledgism

[degraded being]

Were all you people superglued to something when you were born .....to the universe?

 

[nw2394]

who would you have beingness granted to? Some valence? some identity? some set of illogical considerations?

Or to the immortal potential behind them ?

I say the later is deserving, the former not.

We're going to have to part company here Alex.

The end product of your line of thought is that the C/S knows best, that there should be a bridge - that cases fit predefined levels. I suggest that while ordering processes into packages and observing that they often follow a nice order may be appropriate for most cases most of the time, it is a long way from appropriate for all cases all of the time.

Nick

 

[Vinaire]

That's fine - but I suggest that, at some point, you're going to have to ask yourself why you're attached to these things - possibly the answer to that precedes the physical universe, bodies and so on - and possibly your attachment to these things is in the area of 'because you want to be attached'. Thus simply understanding the physical universe might be quite inadequate, even to a certain extent superfluous.

Nick

Per my current understanding, there is nothing prior to the physical universe except finer and finer gradients of it.

I don't know what you are visualizing as "prior to physical universe," or as "physical universe." But, to me, whatever you may be visualizing, is part of the physical universe (universe of matter, energy, space and time).

.

 

[nw2394]

Per my current understanding, there is nothing prior to the physical universe except finer and finer gradients of it.

I don't know what you are visualizing as "prior to physical universe," or as "physical universe." But, to me, whatever you may be visualizing, is part of the physical universe (universe of matter, energy, space and time).

I don't subscribe to the view that the universe simply is. Someone or someones plural put it there - further that he/she/it/they had their reasons. That is what I mean by prior to the phsical universe.

Nick

 

[degraded being]

Vin, maybe it's obsessive compulsive understanding disorder.

 

[Vinaire]

Were all you people superglued to something when you were born .....to the universe?

Were you not O! charming one?

.

 

[Vinaire]

I don't subscribe to the view that the universe simply is. Someone or someones plural put it there - further that he/she/it/they had their reasons. That is what I mean by prior to the phsical universe.

Nick

Any "view" is part of the physical universe, including this and the view above. All bullshit, or figure-figure, is also part of the physical universe.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Vin, maybe it's obsessive compulsive understanding disorder.

I love you DB.

.

 

[degraded being]

I love you DB.

.

That's so lovely, it feels unconditional too.
Ok. I'm done. Don't need no choich or no relijun or no speculatiiiin.

Jis gonna sit here on the couch and be luuuuurved.

 

[nw2394]

Any "view" is part of the physical universe, including this and the view above. All bullshit, or figure-figure, is also part of the physical universe.

.

We're going to have to disagree. Figure-figure (thoughts in other words) is not the same order of thing as a chair or a mountain to me.

For thoughts to be the same order of thing would also mean mind = brain. I simply do not agree. I am surprised, even shocked, that you seem to be of that view.

Nick

 

[Vinaire]

We're going to have to disagree. Figure-figure (thoughts in other words) is not the same order of thing as a chair or a mountain to me.

For thoughts to be the same order of thing would also mean mind = brain. I simply do not agree. I am surprised, even shocked, that you seem to be of that view.

Nick

Well, I have been looking, Nick.

It is amazing what I am finding by looking at space, energy, matter and time. It is defined by more than just the apparent solidity. There is a whole gradient before it reaches that solidity.

.

 

[nw2394]

Well, I have been looking, Nick.

It is amazing what I am finding by looking at space, energy, matter and time. It is defined by more than just the apparent solidity. There is a whole gradient before it reaches that solidity.

Well, I can agree with you that there is a gradient of solidity. And I believe that there have been - for want of a better way of putting it - incarnations of the 'physical universe' before the one we are currently experiencing - and former ones tend, or seem to be less solid. However, they all seem to be "universes" - creations.

There is, however, a line in the NOTs material about locating a bt/cluster/mass. Often that line really, really annoys me - particularly if being audited by another. I have a 'comm line' with another entity - but there is nothing to be seen to locate - the comm is outwith any universe (or at least outwith any universe that I can see). So it is completely real (or at least as real as it can be) to me that there is - er - life - intention - purpose - considerations - outside of any universe.

Nick

 

[alex]

Well, I can agree with you that there is a gradient of solidity. And I believe that there have been - for want of a better way of putting it - incarnations of the 'physical universe' before the one we are currently experiencing - and former ones tend, or seem to be less solid. However, they all seem to be "universes" - creations.

There is, however, a line in the NOTs material about locating a bt/cluster/mass. Often that line really, really annoys me - particularly if being audited by another. I have a 'comm line' with another entity - but there is nothing to be seen to locate - the comm is outwith any universe (or at least outwith any universe that I can see). So it is completely real (or at least as real as it can be) to me that there is - er - life - intention - purpose - considerations - outside of any universe.

Nick

location? Outside any universe. Simple.

 

[Vinaire]

Well, I can agree with you that there is a gradient of solidity. And I believe that there have been - for want of a better way of putting it - incarnations of the 'physical universe' before the one we are currently experiencing - and former ones tend, or seem to be less solid. However, they all seem to be "universes" - creations.

There is, however, a line in the NOTs material about locating a bt/cluster/mass. Often that line really, really annoys me - particularly if being audited by another. I have a 'comm line' with another entity - but there is nothing to be seen to locate - the comm is outwith any universe (or at least outwith any universe that I can see). So it is completely real (or at least as real as it can be) to me that there is - er - life - intention - purpose - considerations - outside of any universe.

Nick

There is no location without space. The very phrase "outside of any universe" is postulating space outside of any universe.

One is looking at a mental universe of mental space, mental time, mental energy and mental matter. This is just another gradient of MEST.

.
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[RogerB]

Vin, Go Earlier . . .

There is no location without space. The very phrase "outside of any universe" is postulating space outside of any universe.

One is looking at a mental universe of mental space, mental time, mental energy and mental matter. This is just another gradient of MEST.

.
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Vin, my Dear,

You keep wanting to go back into and limit things to within a "mind construct."

Go earlier. Before the mind was developed, we as spiritual Beings enjoyed a domain of existence. It is/was us existing throughout, or as, a span of existence. And of course, we were aware of such.

Remember I referred to this on your "Oh God!" thread

Rog

 

[Vinaire]

Vin, my Dear,

You keep wanting to go back into and limit things to within a "mind construct."

Go earlier. Before the mind was developed, we as spiritual Beings enjoyed a domain of existence. It is/was us existing throughout, or as, a span of existence. And of course, we were aware of such.

Remember I referred to this on your "Oh God!" thread

Rog

Dear Rog,

Yes, I do remember what you referred to.

The earlier state (which is really no state) is BRAHMA and nothing can be said about it because it is unmanifested.

Anything that is manifested, and anything about which one may say something, has the property of space, time, energy and matter.

But, you may believe whatever you want to believe. That belief is also part of some MEST. That is how I see it.

Vin

 

[alex]

Dear Rog,

Yes, I do remember what you referred to.

The earlier state (which is really no state) is BRAHMA and nothing can be said about it because it is unmanifested.

Anything that is manifested, and anything about which one may say something, has the property of space, time, energy and matter.

But, you may believe whatever you want to believe. That belief is also part of some MEST. That is how I see it.

Vin

Would not any awareness be a indication of something having manifested?

If you remember it, it was manifest.

That is was not material simply means that it was in a different context than the current one. Space is not necessary for location, but merely defines it in relation to other locations.

 

[Vinaire]

Would not any awareness be a indication of something having manifested?

If you remember it, it was manifest.

That is was not material simply means that it was in a different context than the current one. Space is not necessary for location, but merely defines it in relation to other locations.

Yes, awareness exists only of that, which is manifested. If nothing is manifested then there is no awareness.

If you remember then THAT, which you remember, is manifested in the space of your awareness.

What does material mean? To me there are different gradients of material. A thought is material just like an abstract noun is still a noun.

A location makes sense only in context of some space and not otherwise. Awareness is a gradient of space.

.

 

[nw2394]

There is no location without space. The very phrase "outside of any universe" is postulating space outside of any universe.

One is looking at a mental universe of mental space, mental time, mental energy and mental matter. This is just another gradient of MEST.

.
.

Strongly disagree. Remember that a language evolved by humans in likely to be inadequate for this - clearly I didn't describe what I was trying to say accurately enough.

Nick

 

[alex]

I think there can be location without space, it is just not in any context. But if you are there, its a location, even if a singlularity. Space just relates it to other things.

And "material" is just solidified, massively coincident, agreed "mental" or considered reality.

Language is an impediment as it is never the truth, but a rough description.