On the Subject of Knowledgism

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dear Rog,

Yes, I do remember what you referred to.

The earlier state (which is really no state) is BRAHMA and nothing can be said about it because it is unmanifested.

Anything that is manifested, and anything about which one may say something, has the property of space, time, energy and matter.

But, you may believe whatever you want to believe. That belief is also part of some MEST. That is how I see it.

Vin

Hmmmm - An infinity of holographic somethings can be brought into being or ceased to be brought into being about it! :)
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Strongly disagree. Remember that a language evolved by humans in likely to be inadequate for this - clearly I didn't describe what I was trying to say accurately enough.

Nick

How do you define a location?

It is better to define something before one can talk about it.

This sounds like Voltaire, but that is part of my name (Vinaire = Vinay + Voltaire).

.
 
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Vinaire

Sponsor
Hmmmm - An infinity of holographic somethings can be brought into being or ceased to be brought into being about it! :)

This definitely needs to be expanded upon. Looks like Knowledgism has its own language.

But yes, there is something like absence of manifestation, and then there is manifestation (something manifested).

There is no pre-condition as to what could be the initial manifestation. Subsequent manifestations may or may not be conditioned by previous manifestations.

But the initial manifestation may consist of a bunch of co-dependent considerations, such as MEST, that accompany any postulate. At the moment I can't conceive of anything else.

.
 
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Either those clothes are washed and dried now or they never will be.
If they never will be, may as well do something useful.

If they are, take the fuckers out and wear them. They have been way too long in the spin cycle.
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hmmmm - An infinity of holographic somethings can be brought into being or ceased to be brought into being about it! :)


This definitely needs to be expanded upon. Looks like Knowledgism has its own language.

But yes, there is something like absence of manifestation, and then there is manifestation (something manifested).

There is no pre-condition as to what could be the initial manifestation. Subsequent manifestations may or may not be conditioned by previous manifestations.

But the initial manifestation may consist of a bunch of co-dependent considerations, such as MEST, that accompany any postulate. At the moment I can't conceive of anything else.

.

Hubbard roughly defined a mental image picture as a recording of all the possible senses of a moment, knowledism calls it a holographic incident, the concept being the entirety of the moment, not just what was consciously noticed.

When you insist that manifestation and lack of manifestation are separate you are describing the initial duality, the rock of attachment for all else.

If it could BE and Not Be simultaneously, then perhaps transcendence would be "obtained". That silent and still infinite loving awarness. Outside of any manifestation yet also encompassing it too.

??
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
If awareness exists then it is an awareness of something manifested.

That awareness is like the space component.

That is how I understand it.

.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
awareness of potential? no manifestation.


How can one be aware of potential? One is not.

One is only aware of one's postulate that there has to be a potential.

And that postulate is something manifested and it exists in the space of one's awareness.

.
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
How can one be aware of potential? One is not.

One is only aware of one's postulate that there has to be a potential.

And that postulate is something manifested and it exists in the space of one's awareness.

.

Vin, as kindly as I can say it, if you are not aware of potential, infinity if you will, or just that everything is not known, you need to sit under a tree for a while and let go of thought. It is perhaps the purest awareness that there is as it does not need to be manifest to "enjoy".
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Vin, as kindly as I can say it, if you are not aware of potential, infinity if you will, or just that everything is not known, you need to sit under a tree for a while and let go of thought. It is perhaps the purest awareness that there is as it does not need to be manifest to "enjoy".


If you are aware of it then what are you doing here?

Check to see if you are not being deceived. :D

By the way, "infinity" is a postulate too. It is a different postulate than that of "potential."

Alex, as kindly as I can say it, you have a long way to go, and for me too. :yes:

.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
If awareness exists then it is an awareness of something manifested.

That awareness is like the space component.

That is how I understand it.

.


Awareness of self being self. Awareness of others.

Neither of these require space or anything else, but they are the precursors to those. This is why (per the Axioms of 8-C) beingness relates to Space.

But yet it is not space itself. No MEST is required for awareness, nor is anything outside of oneself required for awareness. Oneself is all there is.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Awareness of self being self. Awareness of others.

Neither of these require space or anything else, but they are the precursors to those. This is why (per the Axioms of 8-C) beingness relates to Space.

But yet it is not space itself. No MEST is required for awareness, nor is anything outside of oneself required for awareness. Oneself is all there is.


Self itself is assumed and it is made up of postulates. Any postulate is a very light gradient of mental matter. Self-awareness is a very light gradient of mental space.

When I use the word MEST, I am using it as a scale. At one end is the solidity connected with the physical universe. at the other end is the lightness connected with beingness.

That is just how I see it. You may look at it differently.

.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
False.

If you want a scio reference - factors 1 and 2 - but false anyway.

Nick


I don't disagree with you that it is false from your viewpoint.

But from my viewpoint, a postulate is something that I put out there, and hence I can view it.

So, the postulate is a dimension point and there is a separation between the viewpoint and that dimension point. And this is the concept of space.

If there were no space, I would not be able to view the postulate or be aware of it because it would then be part of the viewpoint. Ultimate viewpoint (if you can call it a viewpoint) is BRAHMA, which is devoid of any postulates.

I don't go by any scio references anymore, but I may use scio terminology, such as "dimension point," where it may be ok to use for clarity sake. If you want to use the mathematical term "object" instead of the scio term "dimension point," then that is fine with me too.

I use my own arguments, rather than borrowing any arguments from Hubbard, or from anybody else. In other words, I would not use an argument unless I understand it fully and am confident about it. I present the above as my argument.

Of course, there is always room for improvement in my understanding, as I am always observing with an open mind.

But for that to happen, your argument better be very sharp, and not just an unsupported denial of what I am saying.

.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Vin, You Did This Before

Dear Rog,

Yes, I do remember what you referred to.

The earlier state (which is really no state) is BRAHMA and nothing can be said about it because it is unmanifested.

Anything that is manifested, and anything about which one may say something, has the property of space, time, energy and matter.

But, you may believe whatever you want to believe. That belief is also part of some MEST. That is how I see it.

Vin

This was in response to my earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerB View Post
Vin, my Dear,

You keep wanting to go back into and limit things to within a "mind construct."

Go earlier. Before the mind was developed, we as spiritual Beings enjoyed a domain of existence. It is/was us existing throughout, or as, a span of existence. And of course, we were aware of such.

Remember I referred to this on your "Oh God!" thread

Rog

Vin,

You did this before, when we looked at this on your "Oh, God!" thread . . . :duh:

I stated what I have observed and actually experienced as a result of visiting the area and having processed it and engaged in the actual activity of it . . . and you label it a belief only!:duh:

My, God! Here you are again saying that the propositions in the area I refer to are instead (as above) "The earlier state (which is really no state) is BRAHMA and nothing can be said about it because it is unmanifested."

What you are saying here is that something exists but yet doesn't exist and cannot be perceived, etc., etc . . . . you also have earlier, in this vein, relayed that this is an area you are still investigating and have not/cannot visit nor experience. Yet you have accepted and follow this doctrine as proposed or carried forward from Hindu teachings.

My friend, that is belief, the accepting to believe in something unsubstantiated and not directly perceived nor tested.

So I understand why you assert my or any address to this area of knowledge and of our higher levels of existence is mere "belief," but please do not mis-assign to me what it is you are actually practicing.

Mine is not a belief, it is a statement of what I've actually done, seen, as in--"been there done that."

Here is a little something that relates to the area that Alan posted on his "Alan's been kidnapped!" thread at: http://www.forum.exscn.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=112941

The part about "THE MISSION" is, from memory, actually taken from his book "Gods in Disguise." If not, it's from his book "The Sequences."

The most deadly part of a “collapsed universe” is the “shattering of self.”

Not only does your space, energy, time and your ability to create disintegrate and vanish into a pile of painful debris – but you also disintegrate and vanish into a pile of painful debris.

The “shattering of self” causes a shattering and disintegration of your dreams, your integrity, your lines, your honor, your trustworthiness, your reliability, your point A’s and B’s, your life time set-ups, etc.

You feel you let everyone who trusted you down.

This shattering and disintegration causes the spiritual heartbreak sensation.

For me the shattering and disintegration was immense – for I had let down all my staff, all my students, all my clients, all the people who I owed my promises to, all the people who had invested their lives, efforts, time, money and attention had now made a terrible investment, I destroyed the love that others had for me – whilst at the same time I destroyed the love I had for myself.

It wasn’t just me getting shattered, disintegrated and destroyed – it was all my teams, my relationships and friends getting shattered, disintegrated and destroyed at the same time.

The implosion of all of this was excruciatingly painful, the amount of out of control force, rage, fury and hate that gets generated during the moment of shattering is incredible.

When a person gets declared Suppressive - most often a shattering of self takes place.

When a person get sent to the RPF - most often a shattering of self takes place.

When a lover betrays you - most often a shattering of self takes place.

When a leader lies - most often a shattering of the Organization or Group begins to takes place.

When you are shattered, disintegrated and destroyed you become a broken piece.

Alan

THE MISSION

Once upon a long, long, long time ago, so long ago that this story began even before time, there lived a co-existent entity that was the God of all life. This God was the culmination of the collective gods in their ultimate god-like presence.

Their habitat was The Heavens, but it was of a special quality totally unknown to man, for it contained a complete absence of any known material, time, space, energy and position; it preceded time and space. It existed trillions of years prior to the formation of the physical universe, of which there wasn't even a glint. The Heavens was infinite love, joy, and bliss.

But slowly it became boring. And one day The Supreme Being realized that it was bored.

The Buddhists have a myth about the spirit, the force, the creator of the mind of the universe, whatever you wish to call it. We'll call it the Supreme Being.

The Supreme Being resided in Heaven, which was not of a physical nature but was a spiritual essence.

The Supreme Being was the composite oneness, a total unity of all the trillions and trillions of gods in their purest essence. These gods thought as a unity called the Supreme Being. Each had its own selfness and, though it was a lesser part of the whole of the Supreme Being, it was able to maintain its own selfness and still be part of the Supreme Being. Each god-being had its own full god-like abilities and used them to perfection.

Because of its infinitude, the Supreme Being was not located in time or space nor did it have any other physical property. It was an infinite presence with omni-capabilities. It existed as an infinite loving oneness; all the life forces interacted as an infinity of pure and total love.

The Supreme Being could do all things, make all things — space, the universe, planets — create all that is or ever will be, and the Supreme Being was here forever because it was the Supreme Being who created time. But this Supreme Being, who created all that ever was, faced a thing it could not defeat.

Boredom.

In the face of boredom the Supreme Being, who had created nothing that sensed or perceived, or questioned or concluded, or intended or reacted, devised a master plan to defeat it. The envisioned solution was to play. The Supreme Being also envisioned a universal mind, and constructed that universal mind with the ability and purpose of recording all that will be, all locations at all time of all parts of itself, a karmic justice system, an exchange system, a data retrieval system and a planning system. It was the super computer of the universe.

It was the Universal Mind.

You must realize that each god that was part of the Supreme Being agreed to own the image to play and contributed to the vision and the building of the Universal Mind.


Now came the most exciting, adventurous, and crucial part of the plan to defeat boredom.

The Supreme Being shattered itself into trillions and trillions of god-like fragments. Each fragment was a god. Each god became a separate entity, a universe unto itself. Each separate entity was a lesser part of the Supreme Being. It was endowed with four basic abilities: to perceive, to create by intention and vision, to project that vision into a creation and to animate that creation, and to react.

Each god being was given a mission when the game and its playing was over. Each would regain godship over its own universe and recreate the steps necessary for all to regain the love, abilities, skills, awareness, knowledge, purity and truth of self, and to reunite with all other god-like beings so that one day the Supreme Being would be whole again.

Howzat? (As we would say in the game of cricket :yes: )

Rog
 
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alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
snip
Howzat? (As we would say in the game of cricket :yes: )

Rog[/SIZE]



1. We are fragments of God trapped within the created universes.

God is the ocean and we are the drops. The water is all the same. The difference is only a matter of scale.

You can find God within you. And you can find the entire universe within God. And then find yourself inside of that universe. And God, yet again, within that self. And the universe, yet again, within God. And so on ad infinitum. All is one, full circle.

And the waters run everywhere, permeating everything and carrying everything within them. And normally the drops run freely, moving here and there within the wonders of the ocean and the water easily finds its own level.

But sometimes the drops become trapped or encysted. Frozen in position like ice on a cold winter's morning. And this too can be wonderful and beautiful, like an ice sculpture shining in the morning sun. But it is in the nature of the water to move and when the drops are too long frozen, they begin to hurt and cry out for relief.

The answer is not to shatter the structure, for the beauty of creation is the breath of life itself, but to melt the
bonds and swim freely within the divine sea of creation.


2. God is filling the void with a Richness of Creation.

If there was only nothing, and it was acceptable, then there would still be nothing and we and all the universes would not exist.

But it is self evident that we do exist. Therefore, there is a preternatural impulse towards existence and a richness of creation rather than nothingness. And the nothingness never can be filled, because filling it does not make it any less. There is always more nothingness beyond all boundaries we can set. Hence, the creations are forever expanding, world without end.


3. The Purpose of Life is to add to the Richness of Creation.

There is an infinity of lifeforms expand thought the universes, ever growing, ever changing. Nothing is lost.
All proliferate, being fruitful and multiplying.


4. We are spirits, manifesting as life forms.

We are not our bodies. We are spiritual entities capable of free thought. We wear bodies as we wear clothes. We use the brain as we use computers. Our basic thinking and our self awareness comes not from biological cells but from divine essence which passes from body to body as we travel down through myriads of lifetimes.


5. God is Oneness, Accepting Everything

God does not judge or punish or reject. God is all there is. Everything is within God, and God does not deny part of himself.


6. God has all thoughts, all actions, all times and places, at once within him/her/it self.

God is not in a time stream, he encompasses all time streams. God does not have consecutive thoughts, He encompasses all thoughts. God is not in a place, He encompasses all places. And God is not limited to being a He or a She or an It, God is all identities, all characteristics, and all qualities at once.


7. In order to have consecutive time, in order to think about or act on something, in order to have a functioning perspective within the creations, God subdivides within himself into individual identities.

And each portion has the full potential of God, because God does not become less, but simply chooses to operate in a narrower frame.

And any fragment could instantly be the complete oneness, but to do so is to lose the ability to think consecutively as an individual because they would have all the thoughts of everybody at once. And so when they touch the oneness, they are momentarily glorified but immediately choose to slide back into individuality because their identity adds to the richness of creation which is the basic purpose.

And since each fragment has the full potential of God, they can also divide within themselves and further proliferate the patterns of creation. This leads to ideas of hierarchies and beings who manifest as oversouls or angels or demi-gods, but really it is all just water, the drops are all of the same substance and anyone has the potential to manifest at any level.


8. We become greater and happier as we move closer to God.

Anyone can instantly be one with God, but then as God, they create themselves again right back here just as they were, because God wants more identities, not less.

The human individual, in great pain and torture, might want to cease being, but when he becomes Godlike and sees it all as transient illusion anyway, he jumps right back in.

And so merging into God does not solve the human misery.

What we want to do instead is to become closer to God and manifest Godlike abilities without quite merging all the way. This requires growth and an understanding of the direction to move in.


9. God is Love and Acceptance.

Richness and variety are part of God's basic purpose. As you move in tune with that, you will grow and your life will improve and you will move on, outside of this narrow reality.

Love and accept as much as you can.

Misguided efforts to be good or to make others good by rejecting and limiting the richness of creation inevitably backfire and take you further from God.



10. God is Richness and Abundance

The nature of God is to have more, not less. As God fills the void with a richness of creation, there is a great abundance and wishes are easy to fulfill.


11. God is Forgiveness.

God is everything. That includes evil as well as good.

We do not want a preponderance of evil, but we cannot stamp it out completely because that would reduce the richness of creation. And so we need to forgive evil when it does occur and let go of it without fighting it too hard and causing it to proliferate.


12. There is no Balance Between Good and Evil

It is an expanding system. There is no need for balance and in fact balance and zero growth and stasis are all against our basic purpose.

Evil is part of the system because we need it for variety. But we do not need a lot of it. It does not have to balance with Good.

If we eat food without spices, it will eventually seem too bland and we will grow tired of it. But if we cover our food with an equal weight of spices, it would be totally unpalatable.

Right now we are living in a place that has far too much evil and misery and darkness, and it is difficult to love and forgive and accept, but the effort needs to be made.

This doesn't mean that you should passively let bad things happen to you. Being causative and creative is in the direction of being Godlike. You can fight your enemies but don't try to destroy them utterly. Always let a little bit of something, no matter how gruesome, remain to fill the void with variety.



13. You can be closer or further from the Godlike state.

The Sea of Creation, which is all that is, has depth. You can be at the surface, which is full of energy and motion and is a joy to be in or you can lie at the cold bottom where realities are frozen and unpleasantness predominates.

As you tune into and manifest the higher ideals, you naturally rise. But of course the opposite is also true. Most of us have a mix of positives and negatives and we have been floating at the same depth for quite awhile.

And the most confusing thing is in the recognition of what is at the top and what is in the depths, for that tells you what direction to move in.

Most people try to be good by not doing things (don't do this or that and most especially don't have sex) and that is all in the direction of less motion and reduces the richness of creation and so leads away from God.

Competition and mild fighting add to the richness of creation and so are in the direction of God. But destructive fighting removes players from the game of life and destroys wonderful and interesting things and therefore becomes a negative.



14. Everything is God, but some things are better than others

There is no good or evil in the absolute sense. There is no sin. There is no ultimate adversary. God is ALL.

But closeness to God is to be a part of the wondrous joy of creation and partake of richness and abundance.

Blocking the flow of creation and building walls against existence leads to an unpleasant fixation of reality and entrapment within its rules.


15. Life Separates and Reconnects

All of us are part of God but we can be closely connected or extremely separated.

The degree of separation from God and the degree of separation from each other are basically the same thing.

Moving further away improves uniqueness and originality, thereby creating the seeds of even greater richness, and then moving close again allows these seeds to bloom with greater variety.

The game of life could be considered to be a cycle of moving near and far from unity, back and forth, but with an ever increasing richness of creation.

This can also be seen as a learning experience. Walking away from heaven into the wilderness and returning, wiser and stronger, to be welcomed with love and honor.


16. We all have equal potential

The drops of water are all basically the same.

Even size is not real. Bigness and smallness only exist within a context and we are above all contexts, generating the contexts rather than being the result of them.

We do not become less by dividing (replicating) ourselves nor do we become more by rejoining (merging).

The God essence of which we are formed is beyond all concepts of size and counting.



17. We make choices

We have unlimited potential, but we cannot exercise all of it at once. We can be many things simultaneously but not everything at once.

Our basic choice is to separate from ALLNESS and so we take some things and push other things away.

We can reject the richness of life and hide in painfully rigid patterns or we can accept the godlike state and turn our backs on crawling through the mud. God accepts both. But which would you rather be?



18. There is an underlying unity, an interconnection.

God is the ocean and we are the drops. The drops are all basically the same. The drops are all part of the ocean. The ocean is one.

Each drop connects to the ocean and is part of it. Each drop connects to each of the other drops through virtue of the fact that they are all part of the same ocean.

This makes an underlying substratum or unity though which we all interconnect.

Miracles are worked by finding and feeling the interconnection.


19. Creation is the action of the ocean and of the drops within it.

Continuous creation is all there is. With every breath, we are creating, even thought we are often unoriginal and creating the same reality over and over again.

We are co-creators with God.



20. The ocean does not distinguish between the drops

From the perspective of the ocean, all the drops are the same. They are the substance of the ocean.

What we create for others also comes to us for the ocean does not distinguish between individuals.



21. The closer we come to God, the more our creations reflect between ourselves and others.

When we come close to oneness, creation becomes easy but what we create for others also reflects back to us. Here there are powerful feedback effects and resonances.

When we are far from God, we isolate ourselves more. Creation becomes more difficult but what we do to others does not reflect back so vigorously. Reflections and feedback and resonances all continue to exist, but they happen with extreme slowness.


22. Karma is the reflection of waves within the oneness.

The energy we put in continues to move forward. What we create for others we also create for ourselves.


23. We can change what we are creating

God is above time. Anything that is pending can be dissolved.


24. Time is the promise of consecutive change.

Everything is created within the NOW. Things are in the flux and are created over an over again to provide the simulation of time.

Consecutive change is essential to logical thought processes.

But everything does not always have to follow logic. Waves can be dissolved and pasts can be adjusted to a modified NOW, for nothing is truly fixed.


25. God is not limited by logic

Logic is useful. Not only does our thinking generally work best when it proceeds in a logical manner, the physical operations of universes proceed logically as well.

But there is no logic or constraint or limitation in the original basic oneness. These things only appear within the systems of creation.

An illogical and miraculous result can always be brought about from the Godlike state.


26. Miracles violate logic and therefore are chaotic

The more miracles, the more spontaneous creation, the more flexibility and variety there is in a system, the more chaotic that system becomes.


27. Chaos can be positive or negative

Creative chaos is a richness of creation and is close to God, filling universes with abundance and variety.

Destructive chaos is an extreme negative of broken fragments and the rubble of ruined creations.

In between are highly ordered systems where fresh creation is difficult.


28. A toleration of chaos is necessary to perform miracles

Chaos is disruptive to games and to logical thinking.

Right now on Earth we are in a highly ordered system where the game of life is dead serious and played for blood.

We are close to the destructive chaos and so people flinch from chaos and reject it.

But a creative chaos is a necessity for freedom. A plethora of miracles makes the game less absolute and restores our Godlike condition.

And so those of us who seek God must work to increase our toleration of chaos.


29. God does not need nor desire worship

God is all there is. We are one with God.

Acknowledging and thanking God and those who aid us on his behalf is, of course, natural and desirable.

But humble propitiation is not a Godlike characteristic. It separates us from God.

Some entities desire worship just as others desire wealth. They are, of course, a part of God just as we all are, but this behavior is not Godlike.

God has abundance. God is generous rather than hungry.


30. God is not limited by numbers

The oneness of God is not the number one. It is a unique singularity which is beyond counting.

Anything within God can be copied as many times as is needed without making it less.

Therefore God is abundance. There is no scarcity.

We err in thinking that anything is unique and are tricked into fighting over things.

You can have your cake and eat it too.


31. There is no need for sacrifice

You do not have to give up something to have something else.

God is abundant and a source of infinite creation.


32. But there is a need to let go

Holding onto things is stifling. It reduces motion and works against the richness of creation.

Therefore, you have to be willing and able to let go of things all the time.

This is not sacrifice. This is not trading one thing for another. It is freedom.


33. Richness is best accomplished by having without holding or rejecting.

You can have anything. There is an abundance. There is a richness of creation.

But when you hold on too hard, you stop motion and block the divine energies.

And when you reject, you deny the richness of creation.

The best path is to maximize what you want and minimize what you do not want without either holding anything too hard or rejecting anything absolutely.

For an example, consider maneuvering objects with waves in a swimming pool or bathtub. If we just push them with waves without touching the objects, it approximates the motions within the flux of universal energy. The gentle waves can either bring objects towards you or carry them away. But the dramatic attempts to get something or to push it away completely make a mess and often have the
opposite effect from the one desired.


34. We have free will.

This is the nature of divine essence. We are here to make choices because that adds to the variety and increases the richness of creation.


35. God accepts all choices.

All choices are part of the richness of creation. God accepts everything.

Choices that move in the direction of greater richness bring one closer to the energy rich surface of the ocean and are accomplished faster and easier.

Choices that inhibit the richness slow down and sink towards the ice at the bottom, but are never rejected.

36. God will not choose for us.

Since all choices are acceptable to God, we cannot demand that God set our goals and targets for us.

It helps us if we move in the direction of richness of creation, but this is not enforced. God does not reject anything.

We must choose and set our own goals, pick our own targets.


37. But God and universal spirit will aid in following the path we choose.

We can pray for guidance in how to reach our goals.

Being, doing, and having things all are part of the richness of creation.

Causativeness, motion, and action are all validated.

Choose a target and then ask for help and guidance.


38. Creation does not have to be unique

The same thing can be created over and over again.

But uniqueness is prized because it increases the richness.

And so a unique creation will generally be quickly copied many times.


39. Action and adventure are validated

Those who live great lives experience the richness of living a great life.

Do not confuse adventurousness and exciting behavior with petty maliciousness and disruption. Both are disturbing to an overly stifled and controlled society, but the one leads towards joy and freedom and the other leads towards destruction and ruin. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.


40. Love is validated above all

GOD IS LOVE.

Everything lies within God. Everything is accepted and cherished.

Love of Beauty. Love of Games. Love of Stories. Love of Places and Things. Love of Creation. And Most of all, Love of Each Other.

Love of Each Other Mentally, Physically, Spiritually, and Emotionally in Great Abundance is the essence of Godlike behavior and is validated above all else.


41. Joining together brings us closer to God.

God is unlimited. God is everyone and everything.

If we totally merge into God and become one with everything, our individuality dissolves and we reduce the richness of creation, therefore this is unacceptable.

But as we join with each other, loving and accepting and nurturing, we approach allness without quite dissolving into each other.

And by loving and cherishing each other's individuality and uniqueness, we approximate the Godlike state while encouraging the variety and richness of creation.



42. There are many forms of interconnection.

Great power comes from anything that joins us more closely without totally dissolving us into oneness.

The methods are endless.

Between individuals there is talking and touching and making love to name but a few.

Fame is simply large scale communication and connection with others.

Working together produces great things.

You can reach out and feel the psychic connections with others through the underlying ocean that connects us all.


43. Differences and variety are essential to the Richness of Creation.

Love and cherish those who are different most of all.

You can love people without making them all be the same or making them follow the same rules or believe in the same things. This is the path to God.

Once upon a time, some fools believed in racial purity. They made a Hell on Earth. It should be obvious that such a path leads as far from God as possible.


44. But it is hard to melt the ice

In the local reality, we are near the frozen bottom of the ocean. Original creations threaten the frozen rigidity of this place and are not easily accepted. They begin to melt the ice around us and this brings cries of protest. The creative artist has trouble here if he is too original, and yet he is opening up a path upwards for himself and others.

That may seem contradictory with the basic purpose of adding to the richness of creation, but God does not mind contradictions, they come about as a natural side effect of the richness.


45. Some stories require a frozen reality

Few people would put up with loss and misery if reality would bend easily to their will.

And yet sorrowful stories are part of the variety. People like an occasional tearjerker or even a horror story.

And so there are places where reality is frozen enough to allow for sad and tragic endings.

But we should not be living our lifetimes over and over in such a place. An occasional taste is adequate for richness and variety.


46. Resisting change lead us here

Resistance to change is the way of the ice. Denying and stopping things results in a frozen state of mind that leads one here.

This is not punishment. It is simply natural law that when we create ice, we end up frozen in it.



47. Facing things is Godlike, denying them is not.

God accepts everything. Pretending that something is not there is a failed attempt to reduce the richness of creation.

We get little help when we try to make something go away.

And yet there is infinite help whenever we work to change things because change is the essence of richness and variety.

Accepting something and then letting go of it and shifting the energies around into something else is extremely workable.

Work on facing things. Develop courage. Never panic. Then change things for the better.



Alans comments on the gods is similar to Ken Oggers "Principles of Existence"

http://www.sgmt.at/PILOT/PrinciplesOfExistance.htm
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Dear Rog,

You seem to feel invalidated. It was not my intention to make you feel that way.

Obviously, I have not lived your life. And, therefore, I cannot totally duplicate your viewpoint. I am sure you are speaking truth from your viewpoint. I have no doubt about that. But it is not my truth because my viewpoint is different.

My truth is based on my experience. My current viewpoint has resulted from that same experience. I have a scientific background. From that background I know that new discoveries are made from uncovering something that was taken for granted up to that point.

How did the Theory of Relativity come about? Einstein simply questioned the following hypotheses of Classical Mechanics:

(1) The time-interval (time) between two events is independent of the condition of motion of the body of reference.

(2) The space-interval (distance) between two points of a rigid body is independent of the condition of motion of the body of reference.

He questioned it because he found that the exhaustive experimental investigation as well as theoretical physics showed that the velocity of light was constant whether the observer was stationary or moving at a uniform velocity.

Newton was right from his experience and his viewpoint. He spoke truth. Just because Einstein expanded upon that truth does not mean that Newton was wrong.

So, please don’t take my differences with you as I am invalidating your truth. I am not, and I have no intention of doing that. I am simply stating my truth.

I start from the theoretical state of BRAHMA as my basis, which I do not assume to know. I consider this state to be beyond any and all considerations. So, against the background of BRAHMA any consideration would stand out sharply.

And so would any experience!

Any postulate, consideration, or experience can then be contrasted against the theoretical state of BRAHMA as being additive to BRAHMA, because BRAHMA is beyond anything that one can be aware of. Thus, any processing, activity or area would also be additive to BRAHMA.

To me, any additive to BRAHMA can be described using the concepts of space, energy and matter (each being an increasing degree of condensation), and the concept of that degree of condensation as time.

From this perspective, it doesn’t matter if something is a belief or an actual experience, it is still an additive to BRAHMA, and it can be described by the concepts of space, energy, matter and time.

Now, you may disagree with what I accept as my starting point, and that is fine. I do not expect anyone to agree with this premise. But this premise prevents me from falling into any pitfalls of assumptions.

I know that this stand causes emotions within you as well as within Alan. Well I have to simply accept that as something to be observed. So, you are getting emotional. OK.

BRAHMA does not exist as a manifestation. And any manifestation can be described in terms of space, energy, matter and time. That is all I am saying. This may be something as non-intuitive as the changing perception of space and time in the Theory of Relativity.

This has nothing to do with Hinduism, by the way. It simply has to do with spiritual progression of my viewpoint.

.
 
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alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
And vice versa.

One of the things I look for is commonality...not that it is an indicator truth as much as a suggestion of what to look at.

I hadn't meant to imply that either Alan or Ken were influenced by each other, but that two people who I find interesting came to similar conclusions, and conclusions that resonate with my current thinking.

Hubbard said that we are NOT "all one", and to a degree I agree, but it is coming more and more apparent to me that we do share something. One theory or model for trying to understand is Alan's and Ken's God descriptions, as in this thread. Another is to think of theta as starting as one and then splitting off like the branchs of a tree into new "units".

This would put some branches closer the the trunk and others, little tendrils yet to grow.

I am currently into different models of the same, the paradigm as expression of truth that can not be said. Different ways of looking at the same thing.
 
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