OSA & GO OPERATIVES STILL IN & ACTIVE

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
If those pictures were of Jan Eastgate, and not Karen, would you be outraged? Or would you snicker? Be honest here. I know we would snicker and laugh and say "well she can't deny it, it's right there!" It would be fun.

It depends whose side you are on doesn't it?

Because of love or hate, a person's actions are determined to be good or bad, depending on who is hurt. Karen is a friend so posting those pictures is disgusting. Jan Eastgate is the enemy so it would be very funny. Actions are not judged by the actions themselves, but on the effect they cause on the people we love or hate, or on whose side you are on.

Pictures don't lie. Official financial papers don't lie. It's only through the lens of emotion do we judge good or bad.

Does Karen deserve it? Does Alanzo deserve it?

Facts don't have sides. Truth doesn't have sides. People have sides.

Maybe we should just stop weaponizing embarrassing information about each other and stop acting like the OSA goons we are supposed to be different from.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
If those pictures were of Jan Eastgate, and not Karen, would you be outraged? Or would you snicker? Be honest here. I know we would snicker and laugh and say "well she can't deny it, it's right there!" It would be fun.

It depends whose side you are on doesn't it?

Because of love or hate, a person's actions are determined to be good or bad, depending on who is hurt. Karen is a friend so posting those pictures is disgusting. Jan Eastgate is the enemy so it would be very funny. Actions are not judged by the actions themselves, but on the effect they cause on the people we love or hate, or on whose side you are on.

Pictures don't lie. Official financial papers don't lie. It's only through the lens of emotion do we judge good or bad.

Does Karen deserve it? Does Alanzo deserve it?

Facts don't have sides. Truth doesn't have sides. People have sides.

Maybe we should just stop weaponizing embarrassing information about each other and stop acting like the OSA goons we are supposed to be different from.
All of us made silly mistakes when we were in our teens or early 20s.

You've really got an evil side, don't you? You condone smearing someone in her 70s with pictures from 50 years ago or so.

"Truth doesn't have sides." No, it has a time line. It has a history, it has correct and incorrect interpretations.

Maybe the "we" that enjoys and defends embarrassing others with ancient personal information is you and Alanzo.

You're the one defending smear campaigns (except against your special friend Alanzo) but lecturing out in the air to others. :wtf:
 

Emma

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Administrator
You've really got an evil side, don't you? You condone smearing someone in her 70s with pictures from 50 years ago or so.
Who said I was condoning anything? I've deleted any reference to Alanzo hinting at those pictures on this board. He knows I hate him using that to taunt her. What I object to is people trying to pretend they are something other than what they are! Why not just own it? They are lovely photos. I wish I looked like that in my 40s. I don't get it. What's the issue here? Are we supposed to pretend not to see what we see because someone asks us to?

There is fact and there is emotion. They can be separated. A thing happens and there is proof of it. Then it becomes fact. Using an embarrassing fact to taunt someone years after the event IS fucked up (unless they are on the other side). Can't you see that?

Maybe the "we" that enjoys and defends embarrassing others with ancient personal information is you and Alanzo.
Again, who says I'm enjoying it? For fuck's sake! You think I enjoy this? I just want people to stop lying about themselves and about others. This community is filled to the brim with things you are not allowed to say, opinions you are not allowed to have and history you are supposed to rewrite and I'm sick of it.
You're the one defending smear campaigns (except against your special friend Alanzo) but lecturing out in the air to others.
Evidence please. I'm not defending any smear campaigns, no matter whose "SIDE" they come from. You are the one doing that.

Also your passive aggressive use of "special friend" is noted.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Evidence please. I'm not defending any smear campaigns, no matter whose "SIDE" they come from. You are the one doing that.
Correct, you're not defending any smear campaigns.

You're enabling them, allowing your forum to be used for that purpose.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Does Karen deserve it? Does Alanzo deserve it?

Facts don't have sides. Truth doesn't have sides. People have sides.

Maybe we should just stop weaponizing embarrassing information about each other and stop acting like the OSA goons we are supposed to be different from.
What she said.

There's a right way and there's a wrong way to do things.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Who said I was condoning anything? I've deleted any reference to Alanzo hinting at those pictures on this board. He knows I hate him using that to taunt her. What I object to is people trying to pretend they are something other than what they are! Why not just own it? They are lovely photos. I wish I looked like that in my 40s. I don't get it. What's the issue here? Are we supposed to pretend not to see what we see because someone asks us to?

There is fact and there is emotion. They can be separated. A thing happens and there is proof of it. Then it becomes fact. Using an embarrassing fact to taunt someone years after the event IS fucked up (unless they are on the other side). Can't you see that?


Again, who says I'm enjoying it? For fuck's sake! You think I enjoy this? I just want people to stop lying about themselves and about others. This community is filled to the brim with things you are not allowed to say, opinions you are not allowed to have and history you are supposed to rewrite and I'm sick of it.

Evidence please. I'm not defending any smear campaigns, no matter whose "SIDE" they come from. You are the one doing that.

Also your passive aggressive use of "special friend" is noted.
I'm not defending any smear campaigns and you know that.

Special friend meaning, wtf, you've been all over the Board teaming up to defend Alanzo like you're lovers or something. He's not retarded (yes, I know that phrase can be taken both ways), but by now you have got to see that he's completely caught up in some sort of blind rage and it's toxic. As friends who do or friends who don't (IDK which), there's an intimacy there that is less than healthy, IMO, and an excessive amount of favoritism on your part. Why in the world do you allow ESMB to get so off the rails and primarily focus on character assassinations, particularly of some of those who have spent years supporting ESMB?

Thank you for removing the Alanzo refs to the pics. Thank you for letting me say my piece.

I don't know what's going on in your head, M, maybe you're angry too so can't see how toxic this all is. I can't even begin to guess, though. I'm glad ESMB will be ended soon and you can live your life the way you want. This is not a nice place anymore with all this bashing about. :no:
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
I'm not defending any smear campaigns and you know that.

Special friend meaning, wtf, you've been all over the Board teaming up to defend Alanzo like you're lovers or something. He's not retarded (yes, I know that phrase can be taken both ways), but by now you have got to see that he's completely caught up in some sort of blind rage and it's toxic. As friends who do or friends who don't (IDK which), there's an intimacy there that is less than healthy, IMO, and an excessive amount of favoritism on your part. Why in the world do you allow ESMB to get so off the rails and primarily focus on character assassinations, particularly of some of those who have spent years supporting ESMB?

Thank you for removing the Alanzo refs to the pics. Thank you for letting me say my piece.

I don't know what's going on in your head, M, maybe you're angry too so can't see how toxic this all is. I can't even begin to guess, though. I'm glad ESMB will be ended soon and you can live your life the way you want. This is not a nice place anymore with all this bashing about. :no:
I don't see how Emma can be held responsible for Alanzos actions. I honeslty don't, she has been open and honest about her intentions from the get go of this.

Nor is she responsible for Karen or Swift leaving ESMB, or HH.

You're angry that Alanzo gets to say his piece. So are others, but to blame it on Emma?


What's her alternative? Ban Alanzo?

1. Anyone could have ignored Alanzo, like Lotus likes to say she did.
2. Anyone could have engaged him with whatever disagreements we have with him, without smearing his person. The Golden rule should be applied universally.
3. Anyone could have posted other topics to be discussed, like Veda does, to negate what Alanzo is saying.
4. I thought I was Emmas "special friend". I am upset now.
5. I still want to know more of the email that was sent.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Correct, you're not defending any smear campaigns.

You're enabling them, allowing your forum to be used for that purpose.
Would you not say the same though, for all the other people who has been smeared? I'm specifically thinking about the Wrathbunny and the Raindeer.

Who gets a pass? Who decide who gets a pass?
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Emma is responsible for allowing Alanzo to use ESMB as a platform for toxic spewing and shooting down anyone who tells her it has gone too far.

She can suspend him for the duration and delete his purely toxic threads or posts. That would be a real good start. He's only gotten much worse since coming here. She should have done that in his first week here and taking action is far overdue.

My opinion. I'm done posting here today.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Would you not say the same though, for all the other people who has been smeared? I'm specifically thinking about the Wrathbunny and the Raindeer.

Who gets a pass? Who decide who gets a pass?
I'm not sure what you're saying here. And who's the "Raindeer"? :unsure:

I'm not OK with smearing anybody, whether I like the person or not.

You realize that smearing is to:
"damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander."

If Rathbun or anyone are called out for bad behavior, and what is being said or written is true, that is not "smearing".
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Emma is responsible for allowing Alanzo to use ESMB as a platform for toxic spewing and shooting down anyone who tells her it has gone too far.

She can suspend him for the duration and delete his purely toxic threads or posts. That would be a real good start. He's only gotten much worse since coming here. She should have done that in his first week here and taking action is far overdue.

My opinion. I'm done posting here today.
Think one step ahead. Then what? Alazno goes back to his blog and resumes pretending he's the greatest victim of them all? Where he controls the narrative?

Besides, people are able to make up their own minds, he is the greatest damage to himself really.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
I'm not sure what you're saying here. And who's the "Raindeer"? :unsure:

I'm not OK with smearing anybody, whether I like the person or not.

You realize that smearing is to:
"damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander."

If Rathbun or anyone are called out for bad behavior, and what is being said or written is true, that is not "smearing".
Alanzo slapped me on the wrist for the same, what's a better word then so? Flinging shit? Cyber Bullying? Nattering?

You pick. :)

In Sweden, smearing can also be twisting the truth or damage to someones public reputation, it doesn't have to be "false" as such.

Also, I would argue, in Alanzos particular case that using a Scientology video, well they are the most unreliable source on the internet, even more so then Wiki. So I consider that to be a smear.

Anyways, I hope you get the gist of it.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Emma is responsible for allowing Alanzo to use ESMB as a platform for toxic spewing and shooting down anyone who tells her it has gone too far.
No, Emma is responsible for providing an agenda free platform for the last weeks of ESMB where the shackles are removed and people can float their ideas to the market.

I've got news for you. Not everyone thinks the same as everyone else, and unless new ideas are introduced, nobody is made to think again. Group think rules unless there is agitation.


I've got a HEAP of questions I'd love to ask this group, but I won't because while I like to pretend that I don't care what people think about me, underneath I probably do care. So those questions go unasked. But should that be the case? Should my fear of social rejection stop me asking questions about people and groups and organisations within this ecosystem that are tyrannical, broken and bordering on fraudulent? Because that's the truth! And that's a USA vs Russia scenario that I floated earlier. Do you ask or not ask? Do you risk more chaos by asking questions or revealing outnesses or do you shut your mouth and hope that it all works out?

Alanzo seems to absolutely not care about friendships and reputation so asks all the bad questions, and cops the repercussions. That's his choice. It's not like anyone doesn't refute him (or send around financial documents). That is the cost.

Also where have I "shot anyone down" who tells me I've gone too far? Evidence please.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Special friend meaning, wtf, you've been all over the Board teaming up to defend Alanzo like you're lovers or something.
I've defended his right to speak. Yes . Guilty as charged. Just like I defend yours.

So now we are lovers? Is that the next thing that going to go around? I said we had a bond that formed back in 2007. That's all. Am I Bea's lover too? Fucking hell Sheila.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
No, Emma is responsible for providing an agenda free platform for the last weeks of ESMB where the shackles are removed and people can float their ideas to the market.
<snip>

I wish you would actually do that for the remaining 6 1/2 days.

This place is clearly not "agenda free". :no:
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I wish you would actually do that for the remaining 6 1/2 days.

This place is clearly not "agenda free". :no:
Please explain. From my viewpoint this might be the most agenda free place in Ex/Anti Scientology right now.
 
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